The Glasgow and Edinburgh General Chat. Discussions are limited to 6 people before 10pm to prevent the spread of Jimboish.

First topic message reminder :

Another chat thread dedicated to speculation, rumination, and general perambulation through the trials and tribulations of the club from the west with no forwards and the club from the east without a backs coach.

One day we'll have more rugby to talk about!

bsando wrote:Edinburgh have been rubbish since that semi final. I'm looking forward to next season now to be honest, just hope we can see some of the younger guys make an impact this season. Blain looks very good at 15, confident player and looks good in the air.

We literally had one good half against Glasgow after the first game back, and have been terrible since.

Well at least we managed to fire a shot and the result didn’t look as bad as it was threatening to. Really poor for a large part of that game though, some really basic errors albeit Ulster were far the better side. Blain is a serious player though, will be nice to see him in a stronger Edinburgh side

Well that was a hammering at the end of the day, a few good bits, mainly from Jack Blain, but otherwise very poor.

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh have been done over by the fixture list somewhat playing the strong Irish sides at their weakest. Maybe that will play better for us later in the season but at the moment we can't live with them and it is hard to know exactly where Edinburgh are at just now

Blain may well end up being the true successor to Hoggy in the 15 shirt for Scotland, he certainly looks like he has the game and the temperament.

RDW wrote:My brother reckons we've been very much harshly treated in the penalty front, which hasn't helped. Ref going with the dominant team in any 50/50 call, as they tend to do.

I thought he was doing ok until the dodgy scrum penalty leading to the try/Mata yellow (which i thought was harsh). After that his arm was permanently out playing Ulster advantage after advantage. Some fair some harsh. The last offside penalty annoyed me as the Ulster players were putting their hands on the ball in the pick and drive, constantly, meaning that Edinburgh were allowed to come off the line.

Still, we lost because of the silly mistakes, and very poor first and last 20 minutes. We have to stop switching off for periods. Can't afford to.

BigGee wrote:Blain may well end up being the true successor to Hoggy in the 15 shirt for Scotland, he certainly looks like he has the game and the temperament.

Aye, I think kinghorn will be fighting for his place when he gets back.

BigGee wrote:Blain may well end up being the true successor to Hoggy in the 15 shirt for Scotland, he certainly looks like he has the game and the temperament.

I certainly agree re: temperament. He seems very level, and despite others losing heads around him just gets on with it. I'd like to see him a bit more on the counter, and in open field, but the signs look very promising. I think he's already a better defender than Kinghorn for example.

I'm not too down after that. Just bear in mind:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Haining 9.Groom 10.VDW 11.Duhan 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Graham 15.Kinghorn

That's an entire XV not involved tonight. How many were Ulster missing?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

BigGee wrote:Blain may well end up being the true successor to Hoggy in the 15 shirt for Scotland, he certainly looks like he has the game and the temperament.

I certainly agree re: temperament. He seems very level, and despite others losing heads around him just gets on with it. I'd like to see him a bit more on the counter, and in open field, but the signs look very promising. I think he's already a better defender than Kinghorn for example.

I hope Cockers gives him a chance in some of the euro games or the derbies when Edinburgh have got a stronger team out and it might let him play a bit more on the front foot.

He has been a stand out in this poor run of games and certainly deserves his chance

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not too down after that. Just bear in mind:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Haining 9.Groom 10.VDW 11.Duhan 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Graham 15.Kinghorn

That's an entire XV not involved tonight. How many were Ulster missing?

I reckon through injury/Ireland duty:
McGrath and O'Sullivan
Herring
Henderson
Burns
Mccloskey
Marshall,
Stockdale
Balacoune
Addison

Bar Cooney, that's a full backline missing. My first choice is probably different from others.

Edinburgh had 23 players unavailable

Unavailable due to injury (10): Mark Bennett, Lewis Carmichael, Grant Gilchrist, Matt Gordon, Nick Haining, Damien Hoyland, Murray McCallum, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, George Taylor.

Unavailable due to international selection (13): Simon Berghan, Jamie Bhatti, Darcy Graham, Blair Kinghorn, Stuart McInally, WP Nel, Jamie Ritchie, Rory Sutherland, Ben Toolis, Duhan van der Merwe, Jaco van der Walt, Hamish Watson, Mesulame Kunavula.

Cockerill having a bit of a go at the "model" at Edinburgh, saying if things don't change we'll have more nights like tonight.

Not exactly sure what we can do, unless we reopen the whole 3rd pro team debate. With two sides you lose your key players during the window, and whilst you can invest money we don't have, I dont think that's sustainable either.

Also interesting that he described Blain as out of position. I know he started as a winger, but surely he deserves time to develop at 15. He certainly isn't going to displace Duhan.

Maine man wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not too down after that. Just bear in mind:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Haining 9.Groom 10.VDW 11.Duhan 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Graham 15.Kinghorn

That's an entire XV not involved tonight. How many were Ulster missing?

I reckon through injury/Ireland duty:
McGrath and O'Sullivan
Herring
Henderson
Burns
Mccloskey
Marshall,
Stockdale
Balacoune
Addison

Bar Cooney, that's a full backline missing. My first choice is probably different from others.

Ulster are in a good place Mainman, do you think they can genuinely challenge Leinster for the title this year?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Cockerill having a bit of a go at the "model" at Edinburgh, saying if things don't change we'll have more nights like tonight.

Not exactly sure what we can do, unless we reopen the whole 3rd pro team debate. With two sides you lose your key players during the window, and whilst you can invest money we don't have, I dont think that's sustainable either.

Also interesting that he described Blain as out of position. I know he started as a winger, but surely he deserves time to develop at 15. He certainly isn't going to displace Duhan.

This year has been odd though, with 6 AIs to deal with and spread over a longer period of time. Any talk of this sort of tournament happening again needs to bear in mind the effect that it does have on clubs. Maybe the French were right to insist no more than 3 games each for their players.

It is an odd year though, we needed some sort of income. so what could be done.


The season is not done yet though, other than the 3 Irish superpowers, no-one else is showing any form and playoffs and euro qualification is still there for the taking with a few wins, it can all look a lot better.

This season probably just needs to be put down to experience and hope that both Scottish sides will benefit in the longer term for the exposure some of their players will get to top class rugby.

BigGee wrote:

Maine man wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not too down after that. Just bear in mind:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Haining 9.Groom 10.VDW 11.Duhan 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Graham 15.Kinghorn

That's an entire XV not involved tonight. How many were Ulster missing?

I reckon through injury/Ireland duty:
McGrath and O'Sullivan
Herring
Henderson
Burns
Mccloskey
Marshall,
Stockdale
Balacoune
Addison

Bar Cooney, that's a full backline missing. My first choice is probably different from others.

Ulster are in a good place Mainman, do you think they can genuinely challenge Leinster for the title this year?

For the sake of the league I really hope so!

Not that anyone knows what will happen after New Year.

Even if all teams were competitive this season it would still feel flat due to the lack of crowds and atmosphere. Of course teams should continue to take it seriously but if there was a season where you could experiment a bit more than usual it's now.

Just from that performance last night Cockerill will know Blain is ready for more games at fullback. Had Kinghorn been available then Blain may have had to wait longer for regular starts.

I need some sort of positive to take from this god awful season!!

Also, Edinburgh have conceded 183 points so far!! Second worst in the Pro14 after Zebre.

Didn't see the game and don't think I will try to watch on catch-up.

Always the risk with having a long international window near the start of the season and no ability to split bubbles. The European games are going to be awful for the Scots sides as well with players having to get back to club patterns. It will probably be back end of December before either side is really firing...right when they play each other

The Pro14 (12?) is going to be ugly this year and getting to 3rd is probably what both sides will aim for. I don't mind the concept of the Autumn Nations Cup, however on top of the warm-up and Six Nations game the squads were not designed to be without 20+ players for half the league season when combined with 2021 Six Nations.

bsando wrote:Also, Edinburgh have conceded 183 points so far!! Second worst in the Pro14 after Zebre.

So many of those have been self-inflicted as well. That's the most annoying thing. Ulster and Leinster are better sides than us, no question, but what we seriously need to shore up on are the silly errors that either surrender territory or cheap points. I'm talking about poor kicks missing touch/going out on the full, unforced knock-ons, silly penalties where there is no pressure to concede, ball carriers crabbing sideways and getting isolated....the list goes on. Sometimes we just make it too easy for teams to score.

BigGee wrote:

Maine man wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm not too down after that. Just bear in mind:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Nel 4.Gilchrist 5.Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Haining 9.Groom 10.VDW 11.Duhan 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Graham 15.Kinghorn

That's an entire XV not involved tonight. How many were Ulster missing?

I reckon through injury/Ireland duty:
McGrath and O'Sullivan
Herring
Henderson
Burns
Mccloskey
Marshall,
Stockdale
Balacoune
Addison

Bar Cooney, that's a full backline missing. My first choice is probably different from others.

Ulster are in a good place Mainman, do you think they can genuinely challenge Leinster for the title this year?

I'd like to think so if Ulster get a few key players staying fit. I also think 1 or 2 of the younger back rowers need to step up and take their chance as there is going be plenty of opportunities this year with the way this season has been structured. I must admit I like the look of McCann so fingers crossed for him.
I also liked the full back for Edinburgh last night. He looks a bit handy

Fellas, if we can get away from discussing Gwyneth Paltry's latest perfumed candle (mind "Smells like my orgasm" sounds like a good post-Chrimbo dinner conversation starter) and the latest Kath Kidson soft furnishings and instead talk about rugby...

One thing that has been as glaring as the Milton Friedman tattoo on FES's pecs has been DW's unwillingness to start Brandon Thomson at 10. Now much as I admire Furra Linee, he is not the future of stand off play at Scotstoun. (Possibly a future backs coach, but that's another thread). Brandon has now been at Scotstoun under 23 different coaches and only made 1 and 3/4 starts in that time. it does rather look as if he will go down as one of those rugby gambles that just didn't work out.

So we need a third 10; young but with lots of promise, preferably with some first team experience, in a perfect world SQ, in a really perfect world with strong emotional ties to Scotland.

Step forward Ben Healy of Munster. Apparently Glasgow have made Munster an offer. His mammy is Scottish so he's SQ'ed and he looked a real prospect when he played at Scotstoun recently.

Oh...Glasgow sign a talented youngster and Munster get p*ssed off. It would be a good Chrimbo pressie, would it not?

There are mitigating circumstances, but I was really disappointed in some of the senior players last night - Bradbury & Pyrgos in particular. Bradbury just doesn't seem to have the right mentality - he has shown he can perform at the highest level and he is a big, powerful unit, but he goes missing far too often - he should have been leading from the front last night and he was nowhere to be seen.

Agreed. Both Pyrgos and Bradbury had their moments last night, but they didn't play like senior leaders in the team. Both need to be more consistent. Bradbury has such potential, but he just doesn't seem able to find a run of form. Number 8 is wide open for Scotland, and it's disappointing that Bradbury is falling short of his considerable potential.

Nothing wrong with sound money Jimbo. No such thing as society, especially in Stockbridge, unless you are referring to the sort with brandy on tap, leather armchairs and open fires....

jimbopip wrote:Fellas, if we can get away from discussing Gwyneth Paltry's latest perfumed candle (mind "Smells like my orgasm" sounds like a good post-Chrimbo dinner conversation starter) and the latest Kath Kidson soft furnishings and instead talk about rugby...

One thing that has been as glaring as the Milton Friedman tattoo on FES's pecs has been DW's unwillingness to start Brandon Thomson at 10. Now much as I admire Furra Linee, he is not the future of stand off play at Scotstoun. (Possibly a future backs coach, but that's another thread). Brandon has now been at Scotstoun under 23 different coaches and only made 1 and 3/4 starts in that time. it does rather look as if he will go down as one of those rugby gambles that just didn't work out.

So we need a third 10; young but with lots of promise, preferably with some first team experience, in a perfect world SQ, in a really perfect world with strong emotional ties to Scotland.

Step forward Ben Healy of Munster. Apparently Glasgow have made Munster an offer. His mammy is Scottish so he's SQ'ed and he looked a real prospect when he played at Scotstoun recently.

Oh...Glasgow sign a talented youngster and Munster get p*ssed off. It would be a good Chrimbo pressie, would it not?

I think Brandon Thomson can't be SQ due to South Africa u20 caps accumulated before the new system was put in place. He is turning 26 this season and really has had some terrible games in a Glasgow shirt. Admittedly he has not played as much as he should have early on but he is not good enough to be third choice at side that might need a third choice to start for a month due to injuries and international call ups.

Ross Thompson is 21 and played well at u20 level for Scotland. He is born in Edinburgh and been in the academy for 2-3 years now. To me, he is the one who should be given the opportunity to get experience. He is the same age as Healy, yet one has been given opportunities to shine as third choice whilst we pick Brandon Thomson for the bench. At least Cockerill has to pick Chamberlain

If Ben Healy is as good as claimed and wants to come, it would be fantastic. Got to focus on nurturing our own 10's as well

It all comes down to the same problem of just not playing the young talent. We can't win club tournaments unless we allow the younger players to cut their teeth at some point. Team form is usually cyclical (unless you're Leinster). Now is the time to blood players when the expectation isn't there.

I sympathise with DWs position but he really just needs to bite the bullet and cut the dead weight and give the youth a shot. We are just seeing a consequence of having an essentially ring-fenced side for the last few years, with journeymen filling gaps. As I said a while ago it reminds me a lot of Edinburgh under Solly.

Edinburgh have added 20-year-old pair Charlie Savala (stand-off) and Korie Winters (wing) to the wider squad ahead of Saturday’s match v La Rochelle, having been scouted and recruited by Scottish Rugby’s SQ programme.

Profiles up later at https://t.co/WJvkZagRzW

Sounds like they're SQ but a quick Google very much shows they're young randoms!

Savala from Aussie schools, another league to union convert probably tempted by bigger money. Why they're not being sent to Glasgow I don't know, they're by far the team in dire need!

Hopefully there are some others coming Glasgow way!

Some others like Brandon Thompson?

Part of me feels for BT

I was never a kicker and would not have fancied that pressure.

A bigger part of me feels and knows he should have got that kick. It would have been pspering over cracks had we won that game but at the moment we just have to take what we can get

A fly-half was top of the shopping list for Edinburgh. Anything happens to VDW or Chamberlain from here on out and there is no one left. Maybe Kinghorn or Pyrgos. Although McClelland was underused, got to hope that Cockerill has learned his lesson.

No point sending young players to Glasgow at the minute. I have not seen the Dragons game and understand we are badly undermanned (got Kebble, Brown, Turner, Z Fagerson, Cummings, M Fagerson, Price, G Horne, S Johnson and H Jones to all come back in over the next two weeks, not sure on when Nakarawa is back let alone any of the injury list like McDowall, Steyn and R Gray), but he is not using his young players like Thornton, R Thompson, MacCallum, McLean or Smith.

Bean has been solid enough, but why are we picking a loaned NSQ journeyman 28 year old over a 23 year old SQ Bain who has looked alright? What is B Thomson providing in 20 minutes that R Thompson can't and why can't R Thompson deliver? Bean, Lokotui, Ioane and B Thomson have given their all and it is not a criticism of them as they are doing what they are asked. All have a role in the squad, however they are being asked far too much whilst our young players are being ignored.

Wilson finished well at Cardiff in difficult conditions so there is time for him to get his feet under the table, however any honeymoon he had is gone.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/for-robbie-fergusson-vomiting-on-the-pitch-was-the-final-straw-that-gave-way-to-a-cancer-diagnosis-at-20/

A great interview with Robbie Fergusson, which puts rugby into some sort of perspective.

He has been one of Glasgow's better performers in the recent malaise.

Rumours coming from Scotstoun that Haircut will be plying his trade at Glaws next season.
I wonder how many more times we'll see him in a Glasgow jersey.
It puts the pursuit of Munster's Ben Healey into perspective: Furra Linee can't go on forever and Brandon T still doesn't look like a first team player yet.
I wonder if Glaws made him an offer that was too good to refuse or if he and DW have different ideas about how a 10 should play.

Glaws will see Cipriani not having many more miles on the clock and need a decent replacement.

International FHs are worth money and they can undoubtedly pay more than we can!

I think at the moment it'd be a good move for haircut. He needs to be playing in a side with good front foot ball to have a chance of success. Also playing beside the hardest working centre in the world on a weekly basis will be good for the national side.

I think it's a win-win for national side. Not so much for Warriors. Glasgow will really need to pull their finger out with youngsters over the upcoming months.

Glasgow side for Exeter

Kebble - Turner - Z Fagerson (Seiuli - Stewart - Pieretto)
Harley - Cummings (McDonald)
Wilson - M Fagerson - Gordon (Ioane)

Price - Horne (Kennedy - B Thomson)
Johnson - Grigg (H Jones)
L Jones - Bryce - Seymour

Glasgow Warriors Head Coach Danny Wilson welcomes eight returning Scotland stars back into the fold this weekend, as his team prepares to take on defending European champions Exeter in round one of the 2020/21 Heineken Champions Cup.

There are nine changes in total to the starting XV that took to the field against the Dragons last Saturday, in a side captained by Ryan Wilson from the blindside flank.

An all-new front row sees Oli Kebble and Zander Fagerson return as the props, with George Turner – a try scorer at Sandy Park last season – packing down at hooker.

Fresh from playing in every match of Scotland’s Autumn Nations Cup campaign, Scott Cummings returns to the Warriors to partner Rob Harley in the second row.

Captain Wilson is joined in the back row by another returning Scotland cap in the form of Matt Fagerson, Tom Gordon having shaken off a knock to complete the trio.

Pete Horne continues at fly-half for the seventh consecutive match, as Ali Price lines up at scrum-half to partner the club centurion.

The midfield sees Sam Johnson start at inside centre for the first time since the visit of Leinster at the start of November, with Nick Grigg making it an all-Scotland centre partnership.

Glenn Bryce and Lee Jones retain their places in the back three, as Tommy Seymour’s inclusion on the wing completes the starting lineup.

The bench sees Huw Jones handed the 23 jersey, having made a match-winning intervention against Cardiff Blues on his last outing for the club.

Fellow Scotland cap Grant Stewart is amongst the front row cover, alongside Aki Seiuli and Enrique Pieretto – the latter in line to make his European debut for Glasgow against the team from which he joined the club.

There could also be a first European appearance in Glasgow colours for TJ Ioane, with Kiran McDonald completing the pack replacements.

Brandon Thomson and Sean Kennedy join Jones as the cover behind the scrum, Kennedy having crossed for his first Glasgow try against the Dragons.


Speaking ahead of the match, Wilson told glasgowwarriors.org: "There has been excitement in the camp ahead of taking on the European Champions Exeter.

"At the start of the week our internationals returned to us and it's been great to have them back in the squad.

"Exeter are the in-form side in Europe who have a great balance of power, pace and an effective kicking game.

"Our focus this week has been on bringing the two squads together and the boys have worked hard and trained really well.

"We look forward to the exciting challenge that Sunday's game will bring."

Glasgow Warriors team to face Exeter in the Heineken Champions Cup, Sunday 13 December, kick-off 3.15pm, live on BT Sport 2. You can follow the action in our Live Match Centre at glasgowwarriors.org.

1. Oli Kebble (51)
2. George Turner (53)
3. Zander Fagerson (94)
4. Rob Harley (239)
5. Scott Cummings (72)
6. Ryan Wilson (C) (178)
7. Tom Gordon (25)
8. Matt Fagerson (65)

9. Ali Price (90)
10. Pete Horne (178)
11. Lee Jones (84)
12. Sam Johnson (64)
13. Nick Grigg (78)
14. Tommy Seymour
15. Glenn Bryce (32)

Replacements

16. Grant Stewart (39)
17. Aki Seiuli (19)
18. Enrique Pieretto (7)
19. Kiran McDonald (29)
20. TJ Ioane (6)
21. Sean Kennedy (12)
22. Brandon Thomson (29)
23. Huw Jones (42)

Unavailable due to injury: Alex Allan, Fraser Brown, Richie Gray, Adam Hastings, George Horne, Stafford McDowall, Leone Nakarawa, Kyle Steyn.

DW commented recently that after the last Execeterr v Glasgow match at Sandys the Exeter coaches were saying they knew if it was close at half time then they would win by kicking deep into the Glasgow 22 and letting them self destruct by trying to run the ball back all the time. DW also noted that, statistically, the majority of ruck penalties go in favour of the defending side.
So this weekend we have Bryce at full back and one area where he surpasses Huw Jones is his kicking from hand.
Second, Sue Ellen-Stewart-Pierretto has a lot of energy and aggression which allied with Kiran McDonald's power should mean we're not getting ground down late in the game.
My head says five points for Execeterr... my heart says WE ARE WARRIORS

I fear for Glasgow looking at that team.

It'll be a cricket score. Bet Batman gets red carded.

Luan de Bruin just made an impressive debut off the bench for Tigers. If he keeps going like that during his 7 months here then I'd wager Edinburgh have got a good'un for the 3 years after that.

king_carlos wrote:Luan de Bruin just made an impressive debut off the bench for Tigers. If he keeps going like that during his 7 months here then I'd wager Edinburgh have got a good'un for the 3 years after that.

Have I missed something here - has he signed for Edinburgh?

RDW wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Luan de Bruin just made an impressive debut off the bench for Tigers. If he keeps going like that during his 7 months here then I'd wager Edinburgh have got a good'un for the 3 years after that.

Have I missed something here - has he signed for Edinburgh?

First I’ve heard of it, thought he was with Tigers long-term. Big loss for Cheetahs.

RDW wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Luan de Bruin just made an impressive debut off the bench for Tigers. If he keeps going like that during his 7 months here then I'd wager Edinburgh have got a good'un for the 3 years after that.

Have I missed something here - has he signed for Edinburgh?

7 month contract with Tigers then 3 years with Edinburgh. 20 stone tighthead who's powerful in the scrum. Schoe and de Bruin could be very dominant together.

Is this official?

https://www.ofm.co.za/article/rugby/298981/de-bruin-to-join-tigers-and-edinburgh

RDW - Pretty sure de Bruin confirmed it himself in an Instagram interview when quarantining after joining Tigers. Will try to find a link from one of the Tigers forums. Seems done but for Edinburgh announcing it though.

Nel's replacement and not a bad one i would say.

No official announcement yet but been heavily speculated

This Edinburgh V La Rochelle game is some chuck about at the moment