How to Get to Scratch?

This is basically a plea to Super for him to give us his top tips on getting low. I was going to ask on the WHS thread but felt it was off topic.

We covered this a little last week when we discussed how we spent our playing time and I said that I spend almost all my time playing rounds rather than on the range. But hopefully we can get into a bit more detail here about how Super got down to scratch and what advice he would give to anyone else who wants to get there.

But first if Super would oblige I have a few scene setting questions.

What is your golfing history? (So when did you start playing and what standard or handicaps have you had over time)

Did you make a concerted effort at some point to try and get to scratch or have you just got better over time at the same rate?

Do you think you have more ability than other cat 1 players or do you think you have found a more efficient method for getting better?

Anyone else feel free to chip in with some questions for Super.

I will move this on to more specific advice or topics as the thread develops.

OK Mac, to set the scene I started playing golf around 10 years old, played for about 3 years and gave up due to clubs not being very accommodating to junior golfer or golfers. I think my handicap was around 20-22. I played the occasional game, ie once every few years until I was about 29/30. Played non competitively at a muni getting a feel for the game again.
The biggest difference was obviously being an adult meant I had the strength and swing speed to get the ball better off the tee.
The following year I joined a club and got a handicap of 7.
Course management got this down to 4 and practice (80%) on short clubs and short game has got me to where I am now.

I don't think I do anything technically different from anyone else, but I think I view chipping differently in that I'm not focused on the pin. I treat it more like putting so I'm looking for the break and where I think it will run out from. I'm working back from the pin rather than towards it.
Lessons have given me variety in my shots in terms of trajectory  and shape but I think it's certainly attainable if you are one of these people who tend to be good at most sports. If you want to go lower in your handicap then just look at where the majority of shots are played. For most people it is within 150 yards, and more than 50% of these are chips and putts. So it's easy to see where to get easy gains, don't spend time raking ball after ball at the range, chip half a dozen balls around a green and practice putting.

So would you say that my current golfing life of basically only playing rounds in comps or with mates rather than actual practice is a non starter for getting really low?

I know you played some golf as a kid but in some ways you don't fit the usual template of a good player, in that they usually played a lot of junior golf. In some ways you only got into golf properly later in life. Which is often the recipe for a high handicap.

McLaren wrote:So would you say that my current golfing life of basically only playing rounds in comps or with mates rather than actual practice is a non starter for getting really low?

Not at all Mac. I wouldn't say I'm massively talented or anything, no more than other players at the same standard, but I tend to concentrate on consistency rather than being a player who shoots really low scores. It's incredibly rare for me to have anything worse than a bogey on a hole for example. I had one at the weekend and it was a real surprise.

The key for me is to focus on where you can improve with minimal effort. An obvious way is to improve course management.
It's often said you should just hit it as far as you can for lowest scores but I don't think this is true of amateur golfers and doesn't take into account how tight a course is.  Obviously I'd prefer to be 290 in the fairway than 270 with a three wood, but I'd rather be 270 in the fairway, than 290 in the rough.

I know for sure my chipping and pitching are garbage. Tee to green I suspect my strokes gained are as good as anyone in the club. I am not saying I am a great ball striker or anything but I have ok ball striking with great game management.

My short game however is bad. On a technical level rather than shot choice. I hit at least a couple of duff chips a round.

I struggle to present the club to the ball in a consistent manner. Going from thin to chunk all the time. In firm conditions with nice turf I am ok because I just use the bounce but in less than perfect lies I struggle.

I would suggest Mac doing all of your chipping with one club. For me it's a 52. My weight is on the front foot, but my stance is open. A follow through at least equal to the backswing is key. The biggest fault I see people doing is stabbing the ball which just knifes it across the green.
You need to be loose in this aspect as it's all about touch, another key point is just to pick your spot on the green.

Super. Those are the basics. Which I attempt to do. I think I have a flaw somewhere that maybe only a coach will pick up on.

McLaren wrote:Super. Those are the basics. Which I attempt to do. I think I have a flaw somewhere that maybe only a coach will pick up on.

Just a wee bit of practice Mac. It used to be the weakest part of my game. Even 10 reps of six balls before you go out would see you improve. That's about 10 mins, surely you have time for that?

Super

Honestly I am stuck at high (now very high) cat 1.

I reckon these are the handicaps of the different elements of my game


course and game management - Pro (No joke, I can turn the scummiest ball striking and horrible play into a round of just a few over par)

Driving - 4 (I am losing distance at an alarming rate but generally keep it in play)

3 wood - 4 (again not massive in length but keep it in play)

Short Irons - 3 (very good, decent proximity to hole and actually quite long compared to most)

Long irons - 7 (Don't ask me why but despite how purely I strike my short irons I struggle with 3, 4 and 5 iron. lose quite a bit of yardage from miss hits although keep them fairly straight)

60 to 120 wedges - 5 (as long as the lie and stance are ok I can usually give myself a birdie putt, but could definitely improve proximity to hole)

pitching - 5 (seems to be serviceable, again could get closer)

Chipping - 9 (barely single figure standard, full on duffs on occasion and struggle with hitting my landing spots)

Putting - 5 (5 might seem ok but it is a tale of two outcomes depending on distance of the putt. I am quite good from inside 12 foot at making putts but due to poor long putting I have too many three putts)


Based on this assessment what would be your advice as to what I should work on first and what should I do to improve that part of my game?

Mac, for long irons, learn to play a low punch shot. You get a far more accurate shot and extra distance.

By the way, although I have very good chipping in my opinion, I'll also have a duff now and again.

Long irons and chipping are your worst, so it's where I would concentrate.

Why do you think you are losing distance with the long clubs? It can't be age and if anything I'm at least 10 years older than you and am getting longer

Mac - why don't you get yourself a 7 & 9 wood and a chipper?

For the long irons I am losing distance due to ball striking. For the driver I am not sure. I maybe haven't lost all that much absolute distance with the driver but relative to other players I have. I don't feel like I have gained any distance from the driver tech of the last 15 years. So either I have lost distance that the new tech has covered up or I don't utilize the new tech.


For chipping I plan the shot like you do, taking into account slope, elevation change, where to land it, how much roll you want, where to miss, what type of shot to play etc but I just can't execute. My technique is such that I end up having to hit it too hard to mitigate the duff.

Mac, there's a good Rick Shiels video on avoiding the duff in chipping. Worth a look.

super_realist wrote:Mac, there's a good Rick Shiels video on avoiding the duff in chipping. Worth a look.

Super - I saw that video. Made a lot of difference (positively) for me.

Mac, if your chipping is that bad, and if its causing the distress that it sounds like it is you should swallow your pride and get a couple of lessons.
Sounds like you have a pretty steady game otherwise and that is what is ruining your scores.

super_realist wrote:Mac, if your chipping is that bad, and if its causing the  distress that it sounds like it is you should swallow your pride and get a couple of lessons.
Sounds like you have a pretty steady game otherwise and that is what is ruining your scores.

I think that is probably essential at this point. It is especially damaging in match play to not be able to get up and down regularly.

There is nothing more annoying in matchplay than someone who chips well.

Super

Say I go for some chipping lessons what should I do next if I want to get closer to scratch?

What was your process from getting from say about 3 down to scratch? I know you said short game practice above, but would you be willing to give a more detailed account of your process?

I would honestly say it's a combination of a lot of things.

I would say the following are important and a good place to start.
1. Have a "go to" club which is reliable to hit fairways and which you hit consistently well. For me it's 3 wood, but could be anything that you get decent length from.
2. Develop a consistent shot shape which results in making your bad shots "less bad". Developing a draw has been key for me.
3. Learn different trajectories and shot shapes, I e. Punch shots, draws, fades etc.

What I have noticed is that my bad hole is nothing worse than a a bogey and I'm not usually having more than 3-4 a round.

What you won't want to hear though is that you can't get to scratch without practice and/or lessons and I know you hate practice.
Lessons have been crucial to me as it tidies up elements of my swing that I wasn't aware I was having an issue with and this has helped my consistency.

I think you are correct that lessons are necessary. Something to look into over the winter.

If I asked you to design me a practice regime for over the winter what would you suggest I do?

In order to answer that Mac I'd probably need you to be more specific in regards to what makes up your round.

Do you keep stats for example? Where are you missing greens, are your chips short, long, left, right etc.

There's also the problem of what works for me may not suit how you play the game.

My own focus is on hitting more greens and so I'm practicing the sort of shots that I will need to achieve that whilst also ticking over my chipping and putting.
GIR has always been terrible and as such I developed a strong short game to overcome it.  Just two more greens would make staying scratch/+1 incredibly easy.

Super

My GIR is pretty good, it is about 60+% (the app I use claims 68%) most of the time. Although that is a little misleading because my par three GIR will be considerably worse than that. I the courses I tend to play have a lot of par 3's in my 6-4 iron range, the clubs I struggle with.

I think in summary my shots are usually lost to

Poor chipping (distance control)
Bad long iron ball striking (so usually short)
3 putts

super_realist wrote:Mac, for long irons, learn to play a low punch shot. You get a far more accurate shot and extra distance.

By the way, although I have very good chipping in my opinion, I'll also have a duff now and again.

Long irons and chipping are your worst, so it's where I would concentrate.

Why do you think you are losing distance with the long clubs? It can't be age and if anything I'm at least 10 years older than you and am getting longer

Decent w/ short irons but pants w/ long clubs - attack angle issue? Too much backspin on woods and simply poor ball striking w/ long irons.

Mac - re. long irons, get some hybrids or utility long irons. Seriously. There are loads out there now.

navy, I do have a hybrid instead of a 3 iron. I dont mind it off the tee or when there are slightly thick lies but hitting a hybrid from the fairway has just never felt right to me.

Also my long irons are not pants, it's just one of the areas I would need to improve to get to low cat 1.

You might be onto something with attack angle because I tend to sweep or get my long irons off the bottom half of the face, rather than the ball then turf contact I get with the shorter irons.

Would this be a set up issue? I am not sure how to change it.

McLaren wrote:navy, I do have a hybrid instead of a 3 iron. I dont mind it off the tee or when there are slightly thick lies but hitting a hybrid from the fairway has just never felt right to me.

Also my long irons are not pants, it's just one of the areas I would need to improve to get to low cat 1.  

You might be onto something with attack angle because I tend to sweep or get my long irons off the bottom half of the face, rather than the ball then turf contact I get with the shorter irons.

Would this be a set up issue? I am not sure how to change it.

I would have thought you only want a shallow angle into a long iron impact. Small divot at the most; unless you're Eamonn Darcy. I was assuming that perhaps you were coming in too steep. That would fit with you striping short irons and loss of distance on driver (too much backspin?) as well. I'm shallow into long irons/hybrids and, generally, they're some of my favourite clubs as I tend to hit them well; radar sometimes awry, but striking pretty decent.

Maybe get a lesson and include a session on a launch monitor re. driver. Do you know where your impact position is on a driver? Do your drives balloon at all?

Depends on the type of shot you are trying to play Navy. When I play a punch shot I have a steep angle of attack.

This is actually a quality thread chaps :-)

Mac regarding chipping, it's probably the one area where consistent and committed practice WILL make the biggest difference.

When turning up for a round I get there an hour before and split the warm up 20/20/20 mins between driving range/chipping/putting. If I was going to alter those proportions it would be to increase chipping (because there's such a variety of shots that can be 'practiced').

When I'm warming up I'm looking for the right rhythm/tempo and well as trying to make a rough assessment of green condition and therefore how shots will react.

Basic technical checks are
making sure I'm not flicking,
making sure I'm not dipping and lifting
accelerating through the ball
keeping the club face low and square through impact

super_realist wrote:Depends on the type of shot you are trying to play Navy. When I play a punch shot I have a steep angle of attack.

I was assuming a 'normal' shot for a given club type.