Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

How have some individuals got to the point where all they do is whinge and moan and complain about other people without any sense of compassion for those less well off than themselves through no fault of their own?

[McLaren]

I scares me that Cat could make a run at this and you are not prepped to watch it.

[super_realist]

I scares me that Cat could make a run at this and you are not prepped to watch it.

Last year when he won I was mercifully playing the Old Course as they played it early in the day because of a poor weather forecast. I have still never seen a nano second of that day.

[JAS]

So if I chose to take offence at being called a Jock. Or take offence at a football or rugby commentator calling the Scotland team collectively “the Jocks” would that be a valid complaint about a lack of diversity/inclusion or just downright racist? If not why not? What would be the legal basis of there not being a problem?

[super_realist]

You're a person of Jockness Jas.

[navyblueshorts]

I mean grammatically I get the difference but does it make as much difference to Bens point as you are making out?

He still uttered the words “coloured footballers”?

Secondly do you remember a few years back when Richard Dawkins was called out for trying to rate the severity of types of rapes? I see racist comments much like that, there is no point trying to work out just how hurtful slightly changing the phrasing or grammar is because the victims still feel like victims of a racist comment. You might think "coloureds" is worse than "coloured footballers" but it is not really for you to judge just how much worse one or the other is.

And if you want to apply the scientific method to this I suggest the closest we could get is looking at data on how this sort of language affects black people. I urge you to do so.

But this isn't what's happening, is it? This is some white guys (I assume that's you and Ben) interpreting things to fit their own opinions on things and or be seen to be suitably sensitive to whatever the current vogue is.

[navyblueshorts]

You're a person of Jockness Jas.

[JAS]

You're a person of Jockness Jas.

I suppose that’s better than a Jocki or a Jocker.

Ironically I’ve just had to do my annual mandatory Diversity and Inclusion online course at work. :-p

[beninho]

I mean grammatically I get the difference but does it make as much difference to Bens point as you are making out?

He still uttered the words “coloured footballers”?

Secondly do you remember a few years back when Richard Dawkins was called out for trying to rate the severity of types of rapes? I see racist comments much like that, there is no point trying to work out just how hurtful slightly changing the phrasing or grammar is because the victims still feel like victims of a racist comment. You might think "coloureds" is worse than "coloured footballers" but it is not really for you to judge just how much worse one or the other is.

And if you want to apply the scientific method to this I suggest the closest we could get is looking at data on how this sort of language affects black people. I urge you to do so.

But this isn't what's happening, is it? This is some white guys (I assume that's you and Ben) interpreting things to fit their own opinions on things and or be seen to be suitably sensitive to whatever the current vogue is.

You are the one who seems to be interpreting something in the way of your choice.

My point is and remains, he used the term coloured to describe a group of black footballers. I think its bloody stupid for someone in his job. I think the term saying being gay is a lifestyle choice is probably worse though.

Really struggling to understand the continued debate on a factual term used.

[navyblueshorts]

I mean grammatically I get the difference but does it make as much difference to Bens point as you are making out?

He still uttered the words “coloured footballers”?

Secondly do you remember a few years back when Richard Dawkins was called out for trying to rate the severity of types of rapes? I see racist comments much like that, there is no point trying to work out just how hurtful slightly changing the phrasing or grammar is because the victims still feel like victims of a racist comment. You might think "coloureds" is worse than "coloured footballers" but it is not really for you to judge just how much worse one or the other is.

And if you want to apply the scientific method to this I suggest the closest we could get is looking at data on how this sort of language affects black people. I urge you to do so.

But this isn't what's happening, is it? This is some white guys (I assume that's you and Ben) interpreting things to fit their own opinions on things and or be seen to be suitably sensitive to whatever the current vogue is.

You are the one who seems to be interpreting something in the way of your choice.

My point is and remains, he used the term coloured to describe a group of black footballers.  I think its bloody stupid for someone in his job. I think the term saying being gay is a lifestyle choice is probably worse though.

Really struggling to understand the continued debate on a factual term used.

Your point may have been exactly that, in which case it would have helped your point to have quoted what he said accurately, rather than misquote the words lazily/deliberately in an attempt to emphasise the point you're allegedly trying to make.

Let's agree to leave it now. The 'discussion' went well beyond Clarke and I agree he should probably have known better, given his position. Language matters, however. I am fed up to the back teeth with people twisting words/meanings/interpretations to suit their own agendas, dictating to others about what they deem to be correct while at the same time demeaning them; all the while never acknowledging any failure on their own part. It's part of the reason that discourse is where it currently is.

Yeah, I know I'm no diplomat either...

[beninho]

I honestly didn't try to twist or misquote anything. I apologise to all who didn't understand my points.

[super_realist]

I honestly didn't try to twist or misquote anything. I apologise to all who didn't understand my points.

Is that a joke Beninho? You constantly try to bend what people are saying or deliberately misinterpret it.

[beninho]

I honestly didn't try to twist or misquote anything. I apologise to all who didn't understand my points.

Is that a joke Beninho? You constantly try to bend what people are saying or deliberately misinterpret it.

And I apologise if you cant understand my point.

[McLaren]

What are navy and Super claiming to misunderstand? Are you both saying that without Ben using slightly the wrong quote there is no foul play here?

(Also I am not convinced Ben ever misquoted Greg Clarke)

[super_realist]

What are navy and Super claiming to misunderstand? Are you both saying that without Ben using slightly the wrong quote there is no foul play here?

(Also I am not convinced Ben ever misquoted Greg Clarke)

I understand Ben most of the time, but he's got a terrible habit of saying that others have said something they haven't.

[beninho]

I'm going to have to re read what I said.

[beninho]

It seems at times I said coloureds instead of coloured players. Again, apologies for any confusion this caused to anyone. It wasn't made in any deliberate way to confuse

[McLaren]

What are navy and Super claiming to misunderstand? Are you both saying that without Ben using slightly the wrong quote there is no foul play here?

(Also I am not convinced Ben ever misquoted Greg Clarke)

I understand Ben most of the time, but he's got a terrible habit of saying that others have said something they haven't.

I have never noticed this. But why are we worried about coloureds vs coloured in a retelling of the situation rather than the fact a senior FA official had a litany of completely inappropriate conduct?

[super_realist]

I'm sure he did, but when I was talking about this situation I was only talking about this one quote in isolation of anything else he might have said, and in that context and especially given what he happened to be talking about at the time it seems a slip of the tongue rather than something he meant to say. After all, why insert a racist term when you're talking about racism as a negative thing?

I once said blow job instead of blow dry once when talking to a girlfriends parents. Slip of the tongues happen and in this case it certainly seemed like that. I'm not denying all the other things he might have said, just that in this case it seemed to be a mistake that anyone could make and so the reaction has been a bit over the top.
Had he not had all the other things against him, a simple apology should have been sufficient, although you probably think he should be sacked and never work again for that one quote.

[beninho]

The issue with just thinking it was a slip of the tongue, is what else he said in the same meeting. If a person says being gay is a lifestyle choice then using the term coloured for a group of people seems entirely consistent with his thinking. Especially taking in previous quotes about racism being fluff.

You cant look at it in isolation, you have to piece it all together. You may slip in blow job instead of blow dry, but if you also made a comment about smashing in the back doors then you may cause raised eyebrows.

I still think its stupidity, but also he shouldn't have job when all is taken into account.

[McLaren]

Super

As a keen capitalist and proponent of meritocracy I am surprised you ask for such low standards from someone in a high ranking position. Have some ambition. The FA have the right to dip into the labour market whenever they see fit.

[Pal Joey]

I once said blow job instead of blow dry once when talking to a girlfriends parents. Slip of the tongues happen...

That must have been mucus to their ears!

[navyblueshorts]

What are navy and Super claiming to misunderstand? Are you both saying that without Ben using slightly the wrong quote there is no foul play here?

(Also I am not convinced Ben ever misquoted Greg Clarke)

So, you haven't actually listened to the quote?

[navyblueshorts]

What are navy and Super claiming to misunderstand? Are you both saying that without Ben using slightly the wrong quote there is no foul play here?

(Also I am not convinced Ben ever misquoted Greg Clarke)

I understand Ben most of the time, but he's got a terrible habit of saying that others have said something they haven't.

I have never noticed this. But why are we worried about coloureds vs coloured in a retelling of the situation rather than the fact a senior FA official had a litany of completely inappropriate conduct?

Of course not; you wouldn't because you're apparently not interested in detail or facts - unless they support your agenda.

To be clear, once again, and for you alone: I agree that what Clarke said was inappropriate, given his position and the demographic of those whose interests he has to consider. However, you appear to be one of those that's more interested in words than any actions. Simplistic. I do, however, agree w/ Ben that his words around being gay (is that term still allowed?) were arguably worse. The IT comments have been blown out of all proportion IMO.

One of my main issues here is the (deliberate?) misuse of language to bias a conversation and the fact that the conversation had a nasty bent where it was assumed by the righteous (i.e. yourself and some others) that everyone should know about how the use of the phraseology "coloured footballers" was outdated and not to know demonstrated complete ignorance and/or racism. The latter went hand-in-hand with a lack of any pretence to understand that decent people might not know this or an attempt on your part to in any way understand that or try to explain. In your specific case, you have a longstanding issue with an ability to admit any errors on your part or accept that it might be legitimate for someone to hold a position different to your own, or even have a nuanced difference to your own. I think the way you (and others) adopt a faux patrician superiority is all too often damaging the arguments, which are entirely valid in many cases, that you're trying to make.

I'll leave this now. I'm sure we've bored the pants off everyone else, I've said my piece and it's clear that nothing I say will make you take a look at anything you believe or say.

[JAS]

Does anyone else think its more than coincidental that no sooner has the evil rule breaking Svengali left Downing Street that Boris pops up an emphasises the point that he has come into contact with an infected person and is now following the rules and self isolating.

They've also now relented on their GMTV boycott this morning and sent poor old hapless Hancock to the Piers firing squad.

It really does make one wonder what was it that the toxic Cummings had over them that made Boris and his cabinet behave like dysfunctional bungling incompetent idiots. I suppose we'll find out in the coming months if Cummings has been holding them back or holding them together.

[beninho]

https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=19

Is racism an issue in the uk? Read the comments under a Sainsbury's tweet. We have some horrible peopke in this country. Imagine getting so upset about a black family.

[JAS]

https://twitter.com/sainsburys/status/1327506558322880514?s=19

Is racism an issue in the uk? Read the comments under a Sainsbury's tweet. We have some horrible peopke in this country. Imagine getting so upset about a black family.

Jeez, I do despair sometimes at how twisted and misguided some people are. There are some right racist thickos out there. At the end of the day though in terms of the big picture, as I keep saying there are bigger issues that should be prioritised and addressed. The bitterness that comes from widening economic inequality that breeds racism (amongst other issues) needs tackling. Address the underlying causes rather than put a sticking plaster over the symptoms because at the end of the day if we only focus on symptoms we'll run out of sticking plasters!!

[super_realist]

Another vaccine claiming 95% efficacy, just waiting for Sturgeon to announce one that is 101% effective.

Hopefully won't be too long before we can start taking pins out and have rakes back in the bunkers.

[McLaren]

Super

Who do you tend to vote for in the holyrood elections?

[super_realist]

Super

Who do you tend to vote for in the holyrood elections?

I genuinely can't recall if I ever have Mac. If I ever do though it would be most likely tactical to keep out Surgeons Scottish National Socialists.

[McLaren]

So I guess you normally vote labour then?

[Soul Requiem]

How can you not know if you've ever voted and then not know who you may have voted for?

[super_realist]

Can you remember every election or type  of election you've voted in and what you voted for?
Did it ever occur to you that I don't really care about  a parochial plastic devolved parliament as much as what you might?
I've also lived in four different cities in the last 10 years so can't remember which election was which and therefore how I voted in each one, or even if I did.

[super_realist]

So I guess you normally vote labour then?

There hasn't been any local elections for Holyrood since I've been in Edinburgh Mac. 
My MP is Christine Jardine who is always on the radio and is a Lib Dem, I have no idea which party my MSP is from or what their name is. Do you know yours without googling it? I doubt it

[McLaren]

super I follow him on twitter and get leaflets through the door from him all the time. It is not hard to keep up with him. (Daniel Johnson).

My MP is Ian Murray, a pretty well known guy in the area. You would have to go out your way to be ignorant to who he his.

[super_realist]

I know he's the only Labour MP in Scotland Mac and that he was not a fan of Corbyns loony left.

I don't have twitter but even if I did I wouldn't follow some deadbeat MSP.

Apparently my MSP is Ruth Davidson.

[McLaren]

So you live pretty central?

[super_realist]

So you live pretty central?

Yes. I don't really have any interest in devolved politics.

In fact I think it is absolutely absurd how many MSP's there are and they get paid far too much. 64k for glorified councillors is unbelievable. 

There are twice as many MSP's as there are MP's in Scotland.

[McLaren]

Must be a bit pointless living in the middle of a city now? Do you not fancy a move out to bruntsfield/morningside?

[super_realist]

Must be a bit pointless living in the middle of a city now? Do you not fancy a move out to bruntsfield/morningside?

It is a bit. I actually fancy a move out of Edinburgh altogether. If I can work 3 days a week at home in the future then I might move to St Andrews area.

[JAS]

Must be a bit pointless living in the middle of a city now? Do you not fancy a move out to bruntsfield/morningside?

It is a bit. I actually fancy a move out of Edinburgh altogether. If I can work 3 days a week at home in the future then I might move to St Andrews area.

Whats the like for like price difference between Edinburgh and the St Andrews area Super?

[super_realist]

Edinburgh is very expensive JAS. St Andrews is expensive too but surrounding towns and villages you can get a three bed semi with garden for the price of a two bed flat in Edinburgh

[I'm never wrong]

English MPs are preparing a Xmas present for Super. HERE

[super_realist]

English MPs are preparing a Xmas present for Super. HERE

Knighted for winning a coin toss. 

[beninho]

Don't get surrealist of on his f1 hatred.

[super_realist]

Don't get surrealist of on his f1 hatred.

I don't hate it, it's just a boring engineering competition.

[beninho]

Don't get surrealist of on his f1 hatred.

I don't hate it, it's just a boring engineering competition.

Man not keen on something he doesn't like. Wants to tell the world. OK. We get it, its not for you. Though you seem to like to talk about how much its not for you.

[super_realist]

Don't get surrealist of on his f1 hatred.

I don't hate it, it's just a boring engineering competition.

Man not keen on something he doesn't like. Wants to tell the world. OK. We get it, its not for you. Though you seem to like to talk about how much its not for you.

I didn't bring it up. Why do you care anyway? Isn't that what you always ask me?

[beninho]

I'm not sure i care. Just intrigued that you don't let your lack of knowledge or interest in motir racing stop you from making comments on it.

[Soul Requiem]

I'm not sure i care. Just intrigued that you don't let your lack of knowledge or interest in motir racing stop you from making comments on it.

That would leave your potential discussion points woefully thin too Ben.

[beninho]

I'm not sure i care. Just intrigued that you don't let your lack of knowledge or interest in motir racing stop you from making comments on it.

That would leave your potential discussion points woefully thin too Ben.

I have interest in plenty if things, if not knowledge. If no interest i don't get involved.

[Sponsored content]