Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

First topic message reminder :

The new season starts next weekend. What are people's hopes and expectations?

How is Marcus Smith not in the England squad?

Can't say. Smith clearly deserves a chance (writing about the need to run out some young 10s on the International section now).........

By the way, final is Saints 29-Quins 49. Why is Chris Boyd still in place?????????????????????

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:We're discussing that on the forum Sam.

You cant really fault the second rows in there now.

Its not a given Welch will get back in. He'll tackle all day but we have others who can do that and offer more in attack.(Gary Graham offers so mich more)

Collett has also played very well...finally after being here a couple of years and barely been seen.

And then there is also De Walt the big south african number 8. He will have to come in...hes looks some player.

Its going to be interesting...as we have Hardie, Guy Graham (Gary Grahams yoinger brother),  rob farrar, a 21 year old  6'3 version of mark wilson coming through...and Marshall the Scotland u20 number 8.

We wont get carried away though...this is the Falcons.

But so far im happy. Tactics look clear and we finally have aome aggression and physicality........for the moment.

And the lineout is,working a treat.

It's an impressive start by Falcons for sure. Especially with Hardie, Wilson and PvdW (sorry I can't resist the abbreviation) unavailable, which I'd have guessed was your starting back row before the season started.

Fuser and Peterson have exceeded expectations I must say. On his performances thus far I'm a bit surprised that Farrar is out of the Italy set-up. Robinson meanwhile seems to have taken back the Calum Green role of quietly  making Falcons lineout work very well.

I'll be watching McGuigan with interest this season. I always thought he had the talent to be an England player with solid set-piece and being very good over the ball. He just drifted in and out of games too often to really assert himself though.

Gary Graham is raging border fire. I dont think you can name a starting falcons back row without him now.

Robinson is more than just the lineout. He is a defensive monster.  His tackling is relentless and he hits ruck after ruck when required. If he played for one of the big sides everyone would be singing his praises as i have for years now.

Mcguigan has becone a real quality Hooker.he was exceptional last season (in the champs) but hes performing here aswell. He is a real top quality player now....and leader.  And he has young Jamie Blamire on his heels and he will be an England player!

doctor_grey wrote:Hello boys and girls.  First off, apologies for being away; a combination of personal things and work maxed out my time and it was difficult to stay up with a lot of interests, including this great forum.  However, amdist Covid world, we are all either at work or at home with nothing outside of regular Touch Rugby sessions (with a group tested regularly and doing nothing else outside their families).

I am currently watching Saints stink up the Gardens against Quins and this provided the impetus to re-engage with you guys.  Even worse, here at my club in New Jersey, we now have a gent who is a sale supporter (who beat saints last weekend, and another from just north of the DMZ (Harborough where my old man lives) who is a Leicester supporter.  What is the world coming to?

In the meantime, how on earth is Chris Boyd still with Saints?  They appear to have only one plan for attack, a frantic offloading game which has been worked out by everyone from every Premiership club down to the Daventry U8s.  Their talent is decent, but they always find ways to give up easy tries on defense and make basic offloading errors when on attack.  I could go on, but that would be like engaging in self-flagellation (not flatulation, which Saints do provide).  And this is a direct continuation of their poor form starting about last December.  One would would expect the long Covid break plus the recent short premiership break would enable a reassessment of how to adapt the style of play to the talent.  But, alas, no.  And we are doomed to the bottom of the ladder.  The really look clueless.  It's now 17-37 as I write this  with 28 minutes to go for Quins to add to the embarassment............

Great to hear from you again Doc! Glad to hear all is well.

I was surprised that Boyd got an extension the other day but it only being a 1 year extension suggests that the Saints board might have a longer term plan in the pipeline?

There are a few teams I look at in this years Prem and think they could be capable of some pretty good and then very average rugby depending on the day. It could lead to a competitive but nerve wracking relegation zone (ring fencing dependent...) for many of us.

I hope Hooper is taking some notes with his crayons in his well read copy of 'rugby for Dummies' Bath are being given a lesson tonight

It's embarrassing.

TightHEAD wrote:I hope Hooper is taking some notes with his crayons in his well read copy of  'rugby for Dummies'  Bath are being given a lesson tonight

It's embarrassing.

This is a massive display by Exe. Bath really being taken to school (or behind the woodshed)...........

To be fair a lot of teams get given a lesson by Chiefs. They are so brutally efficient. Very hard to stay disciplined against them and as soon as you concede one penalty you are immediately under pressure at the next lineout to try and not concede another. Baxter is a brilliant DOR and Hepher a clever coach.

Amazing display by Exe. And Sam Simmonds can't break into the England squad? From the parts I saw he was very good. Maybe time to give Billy V. a rest, let him get really healthy, then we can see what we have and where we need to go.

Bath man shamed. Pretty miserable start to the season for them. Chiefs look to be building some exceptional squad depth.

As an Chief fan am glad that the Exeter players are only average just well coached not good enough for England so they can concentrate on destroying the teams in the league. Eddie has a serious blind spot , a road block at 8 , 9 and 10 no creative backline play relying on individual brilliance or a 4 to one overlap.

We have slade involved and he created the try for Williams.

Kobus van Wyk yellow card in a scrappy start for both sides in Brentford. Absolute stupidity as he slaps the ball in touch despite cover and being 10m out from his line.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Kobus van Wyk yellow card in a scrappy start for both sides in Brentford. Absolute stupidity as he slaps the ball in touch despite cover and being 10m out from his line.

and despite the fact that he could probably caught it and run it into touch himself!

I suspect he will be given the rulebook to read as homework tonight!

London Irish look pretty strong and are worthy of their lead. They are not going to be a pushover this year either.

BigGee wrote:London Irish look pretty strong and are worthy of their lead. They are not going to be a pushover this year either.

No they have started to build a pretty decent pack. Their starting front row had more than 200 caps between them. That sort of experience is not to be sniffed at. Combative backrow and lots of pace in the backs. Certainly not a weak team.

Having said that this second half has been all Tigers and all about both their control of the game and the inaccuracies that are stopping then from making the most of it.

And yet they sub two of the front row after 50 mins ...

Will be good to see Coleman back soon hopefully as he was one of our best players before the break. Maybe even see SOB play another game

Looks like PJ has finally found his kicking boots ...

Looks like LI are steadying the ship, a 10 point lead should do from here

Not too late to man sausage it up ...

You would think a Borthwick coached side would be better at lineouts than Leicester have been!

Good first win back in London for the exiles

I see we had some new bloke called Mafi playing today too ...

Heaf wrote:I see we had some new bloke called Mafi playing today too ...

He was excellent at the lineout for you as well. Crucial to the game as well. First forming the rolling maul that led to a penalty and then making an important steal. Get him fit and starting matches and then the lineout will start to be a strength, the scrum looked good until your replacements came on and got schooled. Probably spared by Phipps putting the ball in to the scrum quickly so it reached the 8 before Tigers finished demolishing them.

I have no idea how LI didn't have anyone in the bin. Dickson was pretty generous and they still accumulated 8 penalties in 16 minutes. They had two final warnings in the second half as well. That was without any of the LI wingers who's idea of competing for the ball was to jump straight into the Tigers fullback with no attempt to go for the ball in the air not being pinged.

For Tigers Bonilla was woeful. Brought on to add direction he seemed unable to kick the ball properly. Why we didn't allow Steward to kick to touch the kid has a cannon of a boot and was the best kicker on the pitch today (from hand). Tigers had the chances to win but we're far too scrappy and inaccurate.

Just wondering if John is injured or out of favour at Sale?

Blydi H**l, who would ever think Leicester and Saints are fighting to get off the bottom of the table?  Both have better talent than this, but we are what our records say we are.  And we both fail the 'eye test'.  Bath, too.

Rat turds........

doctor_grey wrote:Blydi H**l, who would ever think Leicester and Saints are fighting to get off the bottom of the table?  Both have better talent than this, but we are what our records say we are.  And we both fail the 'eye test'.  Bath, too.

Rat turds........

You and Bath are fighting to get off the bottom of the table. Tigers are 6th. For now anyway, next up is Exeter...

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Blydi H**l, who would ever think Leicester and Saints are fighting to get off the bottom of the table?  Both have better talent than this, but we are what our records say we are.  And we both fail the 'eye test'.  Bath, too.

Rat turds........

You and Bath are fighting to get off the bottom of the table. Tigers are 6th. For now anyway, next up is Exeter...

I think most people expected Tigers to be fighting at the bottom of the table with so much talent missing and where they've been the last couple of seasons. This weekends loss hurt, butthe win over Gloucester was unexpected.

Saints would be a mid table team by most peoples reckoning. Bath do have a really strong squad, but are hurt by England call ups too.


The losses for these big clubs are perhaps less surprising than the wins for Newcastle who have a really weak looking squad. Just goes to show that teamwork and good coaching still counts for something.

Long way to go to be calling the "relegation" battle anyway (caveated with rumoured expansion for following season). Does look like a very open and competitive division (Exeter aside) which is what you really want as a follower. Not being able to predict the top and bottom 4's even a few weeks in to the season and the winners of most individual games not a given keeps the interest up.

Just seen the stats about Barbeary this weekend.

120m gained, the most of any player this week, the most by a forward since 2017 and the most by a Wasps forward ever

Not a bad day's work for the young lad!

is he playing hooker or back row?

GeordieFalcon wrote:is he playing hooker or back row?

He was in the 6 shirt at the weekend.

Its a big decision to be made for his development going forward

It certainly is...at some stage he's going to have to be put in at hooker. That will be interesting to see if that impacts on his round the field work.

I really hope Barbeary does shift back to hooker. The back row for England is so well stocked but hooker still doesn't have a third option behind the outstanding George and Cowan-Dickie. A horrible injury aside those two will carry England into the next World Cup at least so it would be great if a younger player could start gaining training and bench exposure over the next few years. Similar to Asafo Aumua getting exposure behind Dane Coles and Codie Taylor at the minute.

OK, I will be willing to suspend my doom and gloom about Saints (for now).  But they are playing just as poorly as they did after Christmas before lockdown, which is how they played in the restart at the end of this past season.  The longer term trend is not good.  So I will say nothing else for a while.  Except for one more thing:  Do they practise defense?????  

One another subject, I am watching a replay of London Irish and Leicester.  Who on earth (or beyond) designed and approved the Tigers road kit?  Absolutely awful.  No wonder they lost.  There is nothing abut it which remotely looks like Leicester.  I remember a long time ago they had sky blue alternate kit, but at least it looked like Rugby kit.  Apart from the small Leicester badge in the proper colours, what they have now  just looks a bit silly.  

Final point du jour:  I didn't realise London Irish signed Agustín Creevy, the former Argentina hooker and captain.  I think he is seriously good and a strong leader.  Great signing.

I actually don't mind the Tigers away shirt. I definitely prefer it to the recent orange away shirts or the 2012/13 away shirt which had slightly similar markings to the shoulders/arms of this season change shirt but less standout colours. If you're going to do an eye catching away shirt I'd prefer the design and colours go all the way rather than halfway which it does. My main gripe would be that it looks a bit like a training or warmup top.

I still want to see a hooped away shirt as a Tigers fan. Someone on reddit posted a fan made design which was a white shirt with deep red shorts/socks and deep red hoops. Similar to the 2015 change shirt but with more emphasis on the red to make it standout.

End of the day what they were wearing was the least of my worries though. 

In our first exchange on this page I mentioned there being a fair few teams that I think have the talent to perform well but lack the structure to do it consistently. We saw that side of Tigers after a solid performance against an underperforming Gloucester we put in a poor performance against a solidly performing LI.

Creevy is still a very good player and signing. Tom Youngs has been in better form since an enforced rest due to covid but when Tigers come up against sides with top hookers it's still a position we lag noticeably behind others. Hopefully Julian Montoya does eventually join as has long been rumoured.

The LI recruitment in the tight five has been good. From bigger names like Kepu, Coleman and Simmons to guys like Nott and Mahu. Being able to rotate Hoskins and Kepu is a good place to be for instance. The talent in the outside backs is impressive too.

The Tigers back row looked unbalanced on paper and on the pitch. Bonilla was poor. Replacing Henry after halftime was clearly meant to add control and experience but just didn't. Frustrating to not see Reffell take the pitch and White only get a couple of minutes when we needed to change the flow as well.

doctor_grey wrote:One another subject, I am watching a replay of London Irish and Leicester.  Who on earth (or beyond) designed and approved the Tigers road kit?  Absolutely awful.  No wonder they lost.  There is nothing abut it which remotely looks like Leicester.  I remember a long time ago they had sky blue alternate kit, but at least it looked like Rugby kit.  Apart from the small Leicester badge in the proper colours, what they have now  just looks a bit silly.  

The kit is meant as a nod towards the multicultural element of the city the club represents. Meant to demonstrate the inclusivity of the city, the club and rugby. It's very different but proving pretty popular with the fans. It's a lot better than some of cack we've had in recent seasons

Looks like an infant school carpet design to me. Sort of thing that gets turned by Stade France as a bit garish.

Plus side, at least you can see the players and easily distinguish regardless of who they play and how colour blind you are. Prefer the general design to the blocky tops and its better than them turning out in Coventry blue which was just a straight up insult.

Cant imagine many people proudly wearing them as day to day casual wear unless they are going to a covid secure acid party. I suppose thats part of the attempt to broaden the appeal of Tigers beyond the traditional middle aged supporters though

Tigers have spread the bases pretty well. There's traditional home kit and a training top that harkens back to the very popular black European kit. Then on the other side there's the away kit and a glacier fruits training kit that suits the sponsor very well. The off field offerings are split between the traditional captain's collection including the remakes of classic shirts alongside a more modern offering from the Crumbie collection. There's going to be some modern stuff as well featuring a new Juventus style take on the Leicester Tigers brand.

I like a bit of the innovative thinking. The club has to try and appeal outside of the normal fan base.

Leicester: Steward; Porter, Taute, Scott, Simmons; Henry, Wigglesworth; Leatigaga, Youngs (capt), Cole, Wells, Green, Liebenberg, Brink, Wiese
Replacements: Clare, Bower, Heyes, Enever, Reffell, Taufua, White, Díaz Bonilla
Exeter: Cordero; Whitten, Hendrickson, Devoto, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds, Townsend; Moon, Yeandle (capt), Williams, Witty, Armand, Ewers, Kirsten, S Simmonds
Replacements: Innard, Kenny, Street, Price, Capstick, Maunder, Walsh, Hodge

I'd be surprised if Tigers take anything from this.

Tom Price making his first appearance against Tigers since leaving the academy I believe.

EDIT: Remembered Price playing for Scarlets against us in the Challenge Cup.

Well done Saints. Lol

doctor_grey wrote:OK, I will be willing to suspend my doom and gloom about Saints (for now).  But they are playing just as poorly as they did after Christmas before lockdown, which is how they played in the restart at the end of this past season.  The longer term trend is not good.  So I will say nothing else for a while.  

Cancel what I said above. A performance which should get a coach dismissed.

Canny game Wasps v Falcons so far

Get in!!!

Some great rugby from the boys

Tigers and Chiefs have a proper fight at WR. Tigers edging it by virtue of kicking their shots at goal where Chiefs kept gambling and being kept out. Very nice tap and go penalty by Yeandle before Tigers rolling maul wins a penalty on halfway, kicked to the corner and then rolling maul goes over for an Exeter style try against Exeter.

Chiefs having a lot more possession and territory, hopefully Tigers can keep up the intensity for the full 80.

Loving this...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Loving this...

This season of misery you predicted Geordie when does that start?

Wasps are dropping ALOT of passes...

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Loving this...

This season of misery you predicted Geordie when does that start?

Mate, I wont get carried away...

What I'm loving is that they have brought in what I've been begging for.

1. Some physicality
2. Play with more pace..

Look how that changes performances.

Do you think this is the influence of Wells leaving and Easter coming in?

Ps I can accept defeats if we play like this...

Was just watching Ireland-Scotland and saw the Newcastle-Wasps score.  Falcons, welcome back to the Premiership, Wasps are being digested!

Barbeary has made some big Carrie's...hes impressive...playing no8 today

The scoreline doednt reflect how many times wasps have dropped the ball in critical moments

Wasps score