Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

8 bronze badges
The problem states, "If I buy two tickets with different numbers" – msinghal Jul 22 '15 at 6:40
Correct. I just wanted to clarify this explicitly, since this apparently causes the confusion in the internet the OP was writing about... – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 7:38
So let me get this right. If I have a 1 in 14 million of chance of winning the lottery, if I buy a further ticket with a different sequence of numbers to the first one for the same draw my chance of winning is slashed to 1 in 7 million? – Rickie Jul 22 '15 at 8:16
Yes, that is correct. – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 8:23

[Davie]

I shared a joke on Facebook today which included the word eskimo. Someone tried to pick me up on it

[McLaren]

Davie

Would you mind sharing the joke here?

[Davie]

"During the past week I've had an Eskimo, a penguin and a polar bear all knocking on my door trying to sell me things.

I hate cold callers."

Simple as that

[McLaren]

I am pretty woke, but even I would find it hard to take issue with that.

[navyblueshorts]

I think striving to be woke should be a given for everyone. Being an extremist for anything shouldn't. Woke isnt a dirty word.

You're missing my point. Striving to understand where there's issues of racism, sexism etc etc isn't necessarily a bad thing (although most have other, understandable priorities), but preaching to others what to do and not do, simply from the self-obsessed view that no attempt to explain/educate is necessary, is. As I said, if you turn people off to your agenda because of the way you go about preaching, then what good have you done?

[navyblueshorts]

I am pretty woke, but even I would find it hard to take issue with that.

Yeah, but some people actively look to find fault w/ what others say and you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll raise it w/ you in a suitably angry, self-righteous manner. Almost as if they have a virtual rifle butt to put notches in when they think they've been oh-so-clever.

[McLaren]

Navy

I think, after our conversation last week about dismissing Trump or Brexit voters as idiots and your post above about giving people a chance to learn if they have been racist/sexist, would it be fair to say that you think the "woke" should hold the hand of racists/bigots and guide them to enlightenment?

And if that is true then would you agree that the right/non woke should show similar charity to me and give a full explanation of why we shouldn't care about discrimination/racism/inequality etc?

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I think, after our conversation last week about dismissing Trump or Brexit voters as idiots and your post above about giving people a chance to learn if they have been racist/sexist, would it be fair to say that you think the "woke" should hold the hand of racists/bigots and guide them to enlightenment?

And if that is true then would you agree that the right/non woke should show similar charity to me and give a full explanation of why we shouldn't care about discrimination/racism/inequality etc?

I give up, Mac. You don't acknowledge what others write and just pursue what you wish to say. That's fine, but consider me out.

To conclude and last on this from me.
Re. your first point, yes, I don't see a problem w/ that, but I do see a potential problem w/ the way it's done. By all means keep calling those you profess to want to convert, idiots/morons etc. Good luck w/ your drive for enlightenment of those so insulted.
Re. your second point, no-one is suggesting you shouldn't care - that's your own conclusion expertly jumped to. Suggest 'the right' aren't worried about whether you care, but about the fact you then feel the need to preach and/or insult them for holding differing views w/o even the courtesy of bothering to explore why that might be.

[beninho]

Who's thinking of converting anyone? I dont think I have any chat with anyone with a significantly different opinion to me with the aim of converting them into anything.

[McLaren]

Navy

Not sure what I got wrong in trying to sum up what you have been saying to me recently.

[JAS]

Surprisingly no mention on here of Lamps being fired? was it a) Deserved? b) Harsh and a tad hair-trigger? or c) Idiotic move, typical of Oligarchial detached from reality thinking?

Tending toward c) myself

[Soul Requiem]

Surprisingly no mention on here of Lamps being fired? was it a) Deserved? b) Harsh and a tad hair-trigger? or c) Idiotic move, typical of Oligarchial detached from reality thinking?

Tending toward c) myself

I tend to think he was hired far too early into his managerial career and was always going to end this way. He did well bringing the young kids into the team last year but the club spent terribly in the summer and brought in too many players in one go, the young players that had done ok last season were then pushed to one side. Fikayo Tomori being a case in point, was progressing well but then ditched in favour of 36 year old Thiago Silva. I'm assuming that Chelsea being Chelsea he was under pressure from above to utilise the summer signings at any cost.

Net spend of approx £125mil too. They have had 35 different players go out on loan this year which is absurd, they stockpile youth players and the majority of them will never make a first team appearance. As a point of reference the other big teams have had the following outward bound loanees.

Manchester United- 14
Liverpool- 8
Arsenal- 19
Tottenham- 16
Man City- 35 (equally ridiculous)
Leicester- 16

[dynamark]

Davie very good but thats not fair on Chocolate biscuits or Foxes glacier mints as the Eskimo is the only one not eatable.

[beninho]

Lampard, probably shouldn't have got the job in the first place. Way to early. Though, this doesn't mean he is ir will be a bad manager. He was basically used by Chelsea fir the 2 tran window suspension. But results haven't been good enough overall.

The loan things are fine for me, its just another way of making money.

[McLaren]

Jas, I will go for d) justifiable if a bit harsh.

He did ok last season but it was hard to see him turning Chelsea into a title contenting team, which for the money spent they should be.

But to not even have them in top 4 form was never going to be tolerated by Marina or Abramovich.

It must be hard for players like Werner to come from a highly coached set up to one where Lampard just plonks you out there and hopes for the best.

[beninho]

Lowest ppg under Abramovich.

[navyblueshorts]

Surprisingly no mention on here of Lamps being fired? was it a) Deserved? b) Harsh and a tad hair-trigger? or c) Idiotic move, typical of Oligarchial detached from reality thinking?

Tending toward c) myself

d) no surprise from Chelski

[McLaren]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

[beninho]

They did everything they could.

[navyblueshorts]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Nope. You're in no better position, now, to draw any final conclusions on anything. Pandemic isn't over, for one thing, and you have access to so little of the necessary data, you can only be drawing your own conclusions based on your already formed political opinions. Compare away, but it's meaningless.

Situation hasn't changed I'm afraid.

[navyblueshorts]

They did everything they could.

Not the most constructive. I'll leave you and Mac to agree w/ one another because it's not worth the effort.

[Soul Requiem]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Wrong how?

The government cannot be held to account for the actions of the general public. You can moan about mixed messages all you want but each and every one of us on here knows what we should and should not being so that really is not an excuse.

I look at it thinking there are 100,000 families who have lost loved ones but you'd rather try and make petty points instead.

[beninho]

They did everything they could.

Not the most constructive. I'll leave you and Mac to agree w/ one another because it's not worth the effort.

Xx

[beninho]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Wrong how?

The government cannot be held to account for the actions of the general public. You can moan about mixed messages all you want but each and every one of us on here knows what we should and should not being so that really is not an excuse.

I look at it thinking there are 100,000 families who have lost loved ones but you'd rather try and make petty points instead.

I'm with you on this one. The people killed themselves. All their own fault. The government have been great.

[Soul Requiem]

Such childishness as per usual, unable to actually debate anything ever.

[beninho]

Such childishness as per usual, unable to actually debate anything ever.

I'm agreeing with you. None if the deaths are the govts fault. Its all on them. Long live the government long live boris.

[beninho]

While the government have done all they could with covid, and its the fault of the people. The cladding scandal is pretty terrible. That one is on them.

[JuliusHMarx]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Wrong how?

The government cannot be held to account for the actions of the general public. You can moan about mixed messages all you want but each and every one of us on here knows what we should and should not being so that really is not an excuse.

I look at it thinking there are 100,000 families who have lost loved ones but you'd rather try and make petty points instead.

Nope. You're in no better position, now, to draw any final conclusions on anything. Pandemic isn't over, for one thing, and you have access to so little of the necessary data, you can only be drawing your own conclusions based on your already formed political opinions.

[BlueCoverman]

So national lockdown for at least six more weeks and schools to reopen from March 8 at earliest.

Any chance of a game of golf before then do you think?

[McLaren]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

:picard: Nope. You're in no better position, now, to draw any final conclusions on anything. Pandemic isn't over, for one thing, and you have access to so little of the necessary data, you can only be drawing your own conclusions based on your already formed political opinions. Compare away, but it's meaningless.

Situation hasn't changed I'm afraid.

Why are you so reluctant to draw even a tentative conclusion? Do you really have no thoughts at the moment on what has given the UK the worst death rate per capita?

[McLaren]

So national lockdown for at least six more weeks and schools to reopen from March 8 at earliest.

Any chance of a game of golf before then do you think?

Would need the snow and ice to melt first.

[JAS]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Wrong how?

The government cannot be held to account for the actions of the general public. You can moan about mixed messages all you want but each and every one of us on here knows what we should and should not being so that really is not an excuse.

I look at it thinking there are 100,000 families who have lost loved ones but you'd rather try and make petty points instead.

Wrong how?

1. Too slow to react
2. Lying that they were well prepared when quite evidently they weren't
3. Refusal to look at and take on board lessons from similar (smaller scale) outbreaks like SARS in other countries (masks being a prime example -most Asian countries - straight to masks. Us, our Govt worried that we might not like wearing them and took months to make them compulsory in some areas
4. Locking down international travel...ok we're there now but not before over 90000 perished.
5. Handing Test, Track and Trace contracts to their mates, remember we were promised a world class version of that by May (maybe they meant May 2021)
6. I could go on but I'd be here a while...

Additionally, all of the above is compounded if you roll in a decade of austerity which meant

Caught with their pants down re a decade of NHS underfunding
Caught with their pants down re understaffing of Police forces thus making any enforcement of restrictions pretty much inconsistent & sporadic
Chronic underfunding of local authorities which were they not so devoid of cash they could have provided significant help, particularly regarding schools

[BlueCoverman]

So national lockdown for at least six more weeks and schools to reopen from March 8 at earliest.

Any chance of a game of golf before then do you think?

Would need the snow and ice to melt first.

None here in Essex, blue sky and very mild today. I might have to take up fishing!

[McLaren]

Soul

I sort of agree that more personal responsibility would have helped, and I would also accept the British might not be the most altruistic when it comes to the sort of behaviour needed to minimize the spread of covid. But some vital elements of tacking an epidemic were missing the UK's response.

From the list Jas post earlier I would predict that a lack of a functioning track and trace system has been catastrophic for the UK. The reluctance to put one in place and then the failure to get it up and running is totally on the Government.

We then had mask "skepticism" from the Government, despite as Jas also points out this being the accepted scientific consensus in countries that had previously had outbreaks. I get that some UK scientific advice claimed masks were not effective based on lab tests and modelling but if in doubt with science go with what has worked in real life.

And how do you feel about the idea that any particular susceptibility the UK population had to covid has been induced by a decade of Tory governments not taking inequality and the needs of the poorest in society seriously?

[navyblueshorts]

No way to disguise the inflammatory nature of this question.

Are those who said early on last March and April that we need to wait and see, you can't compare nations, can't blame UKG etc willing to say they were wrong?

I am thinking Navy and Super (if he was here) in particular?

Wrong how?

The government cannot be held to account for the actions of the general public. You can moan about mixed messages all you want but each and every one of us on here knows what we should and should not being so that really is not an excuse.

I look at it thinking there are 100,000 families who have lost loved ones but you'd rather try and make petty points instead.

Wrong how?

1. Too slow to react
Arguable. Won't know for sure until later. Virus rife here before we even knew it.
2. Lying that they were well prepared when quite evidently they weren't
Give you this one. Minor point.
3. Refusal to look at and take on board lessons from similar (smaller scale) outbreaks like SARS in other countries (masks being a prime example -most Asian countries - straight to masks. Us, our Govt worried that we might not like wearing them and took months to make them compulsory in some areas
20:20 hindsight and Korea etc had direct experience of SARS. Would have been nice, but stretching it I think to pile into them over this.
4. Locking down international travel...ok we're there now but not before over 90000 perished.
Pointless early on re. case #s already here (see reply to 1), but agree from Summer 2020 onwards. We had it suppressed last Summer, so would have made some sense then.
5. Handing Test, Track and Trace contracts to their mates, remember we were promised a world class version of that by May (maybe they meant May 2021)
Give you this one.
6. I could go on but I'd be here a while...
I wouldn't.

Additionally, all of the above is compounded if you roll in a decade of austerity which meant

Caught with their pants down re a decade of NHS underfunding
PFI was such a great success as well, wasn't it? Concede general point, but not solely down to this Government. Jeremy Hunt really should STFU given his performance in the role.
Caught with their pants down re understaffing of Police forces thus making any enforcement of restrictions pretty much inconsistent & sporadic
See previous.
Chronic underfunding of local authorities which were they not so devoid of cash they could have provided significant help, particularly regarding schools
Give you this one.

[Soul Requiem]

The understaffing of the police is only relevant because such large swathes of the population have ignored what is generally simple advice. You can blame the government for cutting funding but ultimately those committing the crimes are to blame.

You mention masks JAS but when you look at the numbers throughout europe combined with inconclusive studies into their use, their effectiveness needs to be questioned. The move to enforce their use appears more a decision to appear to be doing something rather than based on any significant science.

[navyblueshorts]

...From the list Jas post earlier I would predict that a lack of a functioning track and trace system has been catastrophic for the UK. The reluctance to put one in place and then the failure to get it up and running is totally on the Government.

You predict. Would have made no difference in first wave. Agree that failure thereafter is, on the face of it, a problem.

We then had mask "skepticism" from the Government, despite as Jas also points out this being the accepted scientific consensus in countries that had previously had outbreaks. I get that some UK scientific advice claimed masks were not effective based on lab tests and modelling but if in doubt with science go with what has worked in real life.

No, we didn't. UKG said it was awaiting data that it made a +ve difference. Mask wearing associates w/ other behaviour that is -ve. 'What has worked in real life'?? All you know is that this behaviour is common in Japan (but you don't know why) and you have no evidence that it has definitively worked in any biohazard scenario.

And how do you feel about the idea that any particular susceptibility the UK population had to covid has been induced by a decade of Tory governments not taking inequality and the needs of the poorest in society seriously?

Politics. Get off it. This 'particular susceptibility' is what, exactly? Are you suggesting austerity is linked to more in care homes? Linked w/ nationwide obesity? Linked w/ a high average, relative life expectancy? Give over.
It's a pertinent question to ask, but it's far more nuanced than you would ever allow it to be. Someone has to drive the taxis, buses, be the nurses and doctors etc etc. The absurd housing prices in this country (contributing to high occupancy housing for the less affluent) exclusively the fault of the Tories eh? It's almost exclusively a numbers game - more exposure over more time = higher risk. Factor in health and age and you can see the outcomes we're seeing.

[McLaren]

Navy

Ok, let me hear the nuanced version of the current susceptibility of the population to covid has been set by the last decade of Tory policy?

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

Ok, let me hear the nuanced version of the current susceptibility of the population to covid has been set by the last decade of Tory policy?

Work it out for yourself. Read what others write and think about it. Stop asking questions of those that've just posed some for you to answer and which you try to avoid answering.

Having just read your post back, I don't actually know what it's meant to mean. Is it meant to be:

"Ok, let me hear the nuanced version of the following statement. The current susceptibility of the population to covid has been set by the last decade of Tory policy." ??

[McLaren]

Navy

I am reading in both left and right wing papers that the UKG of the last decade has created a situation where the population is not as healthy as it should be. As far as I can tell it is pretty much accepted as fact that the outcomes of the poor have become much worse under the Tory government of the last 10 years. Other than from the government themselves or think tanks (is there a worse entity in existence?) I have not heard an argument to counter this.

[McLaren]

And on track and trace. The countries that have dealt with covid the most successfully went in hard and fast on track and trace. Not sure why you say it wouldn't have helped in the first wave. It would have helped from the day it was implemented on.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I am reading in both left and right wing papers that the UKG of the last decade has created a situation where the population is not as healthy as it should be. As far as I can tell it is pretty much accepted as fact that the outcomes of the poor have become much worse under the Tory government of the last 10 years. Other than from the government themselves or think tanks (is there a worse entity in existence?) I have not heard an argument to counter this.

Health is one issue and it's not exclusively a Tory issue, so not the best example to try to pin on them re. Covid mortality.

And on track and trace. The countries that have dealt with covid the most successfully went in hard and fast on track and trace.  Not sure why you say it wouldn't have helped in the first wave. It would have helped from the day it was implemented on.

Given that we didn't have it in existence when the first wave blew up (and we can discuss why not), the epidemic in this country was rife before we really had a clue it was here. Listen to the scientists - at least 1200 (I think) individual documented entry events in early 2020 and that's w/ hindsight and sequencing. By the time we knew, there were 10s of thousands walking around with it, infecting everyone else. In addition, there was no way to ramp up the system and/or app in a meaningfully short enough time to make a difference.
I'm not trying to excuse the World Beating Track-Trace that we now don't have, but first up it wasn't realistic or going to help significantly. We should have a better system now. Definitely.

[beninho]

I saw something earlier, may have been asked in pmqs. I assume Boris didn't answer, he never does. But, the simple question is why have we been so bad?

[westisbest]

Nobody seems to want to answer that Ben.

[Davie]

I suspect these things go in waves around the world - especially in countries of similar demographics and population densities. At one point, Belgium was the worst, and Italy and Spain, and, and and.....

At the moment, UK is the worst. In another month or so, other countries will catch up as the effects of lockdown come into force in the UK and the mutant variant starts to take hold in other countries.

Not great for anyone but not really a whole lot to choose between any of the comparable countries. Germany? Does anyone really believe their numbers? Or are they just massaging the numbers more favourably?

[beninho]

And another why?

https://twitter.com/ActuaryByDay/status/1354560357872918528?s=19

If you look at the tweet quoted, when soneone is basically spreading false figures about deaths. And then some of the replies.its had 1900 retweets and 3k likes. The responses are shocking.

Why, do some people want to believe this, why do they not believe whats going on. Is it that they have listened to lunatics like Hartley Brewer, Toby Young,  Fox and the right wing nut job brigade?  They are the people to blame on a lot of the problems in this country.

Disinformation spread via social media and people with a platform string it up. is a massive issue.

[Soul Requiem]

Then there's the left wing nutjob brigade including dear old Jeremys brother.

[beninho]

He's a mad arse, but doesn't have the same following or platform as JHB, Young, Fox. Obviously. I think, its pretty clear, that the right wingers are pushing it a lot more. Talk radio aswell, and then the newspapers, and Alison Pearson. Unfortunately lots of people listen and take these views on, as per my initial tweet quote.

Can I call them idiots?

[Soul Requiem]

You see what you want to see i'm afraid, there are idiots all over the political spectrum with regards to Covid-19, you just choose to highlight the right wing element.

[beninho]

You see what you want to see i'm afraid, there are idiots all over the political spectrum with regards to Covid-19, you just choose to highlight the right wing element.

Come on then, hit me with the equivalent lefty ones then, with similar platforms. I just flagged the ones I notice more.

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