Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

8 bronze badges
The problem states, "If I buy two tickets with different numbers" – msinghal Jul 22 '15 at 6:40
Correct. I just wanted to clarify this explicitly, since this apparently causes the confusion in the internet the OP was writing about... – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 7:38
So let me get this right. If I have a 1 in 14 million of chance of winning the lottery, if I buy a further ticket with a different sequence of numbers to the first one for the same draw my chance of winning is slashed to 1 in 7 million? – Rickie Jul 22 '15 at 8:16
Yes, that is correct. – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 8:23

[dynamark]

Re the knee issue I liked way way F1 did it(Mac) by giving a choice some of the guys decided they didnt wish to participate on the line up.Just imagine the stick heading for the first footballer who decides to stay on his feet(no pun)
Personaly its out of the question as I may not be able to get up again !

[Soul Requiem]

What point are players making by continuing to take a knee exactly? I wouldn't do it personally and it carrying on is now at a point of ridiculousness and no having a different opinion does not make one a racist. It signifies subservience in my opinion and that in itself goes against the very message it is trying to make.

[JAS]

Jas
Why wouldn't you take the knee? What point are players making by not doing it?

I never said whether I would or wouldn't, so you're going off at a tangent. I can't answer for each player but my general guess is that most who don't will be exercising their right to have freedom of choice. Does that mean they are racist, no it certainly does not (that's not to say some may be but not taking the knee does not definitively identify them)

We all have a right in a democracy to demand a free and fair society but if you abandon free in the pursuit of fair then you're going to muddy the water somewhat.

Just look at football, it is about a collective message. Not individuals.

Incase you hadn't noticed we perpetually elect a government that taps into individualism rather than one that fights for the common collective good. So trying to force a collective message will have dubious results.

In the EPL taking the knee is now part of every pre match routine. The players all kneel because it is about the whole organisation showing a collective message, not just whoever feels like they want to support it. I assume that the clubs have warned the players that they have to do it because that is the message their pay masters want them to portray.

Exactly that, money is talking there, not players individual thoughts and beliefs

As for the punishment. In an ideal world they take the knee or don't get picked. As it stands hopefully their reputations are damaged.

You do know Hitler was an idealist??

"I'm getting heartily sick of this virtue signalling & demonisation of all those who don't "comply""

If you say you are someone who is against racism I don't understand this.

I've already worked that out!!

Why would you have an issue with those people who continue to perpetuate racism being demonised?

I simply don't see people who don't take the knee as perpetuating racism

[ralphjohn69]

Who would have thought a bunch of public school boys raised in a nation lacking diversity would get this wrong?

England 6-11 Scotland: Scottish Rugby backs players who did not kneel - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55971987

Oh ffs get off your moral high horse and read the entire article rather than the headline. No rugby players have taken the knee during any international prior to this, no Wales or Ireland players did it at the weekend and the Scotland players were largely unaware that anything had even happened.

Don't even think of replying until you've read the article in its' entirety, realised you've got this wrong then apologised to the Scotland players for your misunderstanding of the situation.

[McLaren]

ralph

I notice you have Uphall as your location. Are you a member of Uphall golf club. Very sad news from there over the weekend. Do you have any info on what happened?

[McLaren]

Jas

Sorry, I was no implying you wouldn't take the knee but just wondered if you could think of any reason why someone might not take the knee? I can't see a reason not to.


And on the virtue signalling stuff, I don't buy into the idea that by letting some racism (or whatever) slide so as not to come off as self righteous you could damage the overall gains by making some people feel victimised for having outdated views. Sod them. If you see it, call it out. Even if you risk someone thinking you are self righteous. I really believe that those calling it out and being woke or virtue signalling will be proven correct eventually.

[McLaren]

ralph

I did read it in its entirety and I am not comforted by the other teams failure to get on board with this. And if the SRU is perfectly happy for the players to take the knee then why don't they?

[ralphjohn69]

ralph

I did read it in its entirety and I am not comforted by the other teams failure to get on board with this. And if the SRU is perfectly happy for the players to take the knee then why don't they?

Because it wasn't even a thing any of them have been doing (any international rugby teams, not just Scotland) as they have been addressing racism, bigotry, etc, in other ways, so Scotland should not have been singled out for any failure to do something none of them were doing.

On your other question yes, although I now live in Livingston I'm from Uphall and I've been a member at the golf club for 30 years, was on the committee for nearly 20 years and was Match Sec for about 15 years, also Club Champ a couple of times.  Looks like some sort of electrical fault has caused the fire but it's completely gutted the place, I've been down to see it a couple of times and it's devastating.  I basically grew up there and have had countless brilliant nights in that clubhouse; end of an era with a lot of the club's history such as trophies, pictures, etc gone forever. Looks like it's a demolition job and a new clubhouse will be built, however long that will take.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-55962834

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/uphall-golf-club-major-fire-west-lothian-golf-course-3126441

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/uphall-golf-club-fire-mr-uphall-gordon-law-devastated-fire-west-lothian-clubhouse-3127183

[beninho]

Taking the knee shows that a fight is still ongoing. I honestly do not see any valid reason why anyobe would be against it. I guess football has a bigger group of Bame players, so its struck home with all players more. I cant imagine a white footballer could legitimatly not kneel if black footballers are.

Maybe, they have no racism or injustice in rugby.

[navyblueshorts]

Jas

Why wouldn't you take the knee? What point are players making by not doing it?


Just look at football, it is about a collective message. Not individuals. In the EPL taking the knee is now part of every pre match routine. The players all kneel because it is about the whole organisation showing a collective message, not just whoever feels like they want to support it. I assume that the clubs have warned the players that they have to do it because that is the message their pay masters want them to portray.

As for the punishment. In an ideal world they take the knee or don't get picked. As it stands hopefully their reputations are damaged.


"I'm getting heartily sick of this virtue signalling & demonisation of all those who don't "comply""

If you say you are someone who is against racism I don't understand this. Why would you have an issue with those people who continue to perpetuate racism being demonised?

[navyblueshorts]

Jas

Sorry, I was no implying you wouldn't take the knee but just wondered if you could think of any reason why someone might not take the knee? I can't see a reason not to.


And on the virtue signalling stuff, I don't buy into the idea that by letting some racism (or whatever) slide so as not to come off as self righteous you could damage the overall gains by making some people feel victimised for having outdated views. Sod them. If you see it, call it out. Even if you risk someone thinking you are self righteous. I really believe that those calling it out and being woke or virtue signalling will be proven correct eventually.

More tangents. You're talking about some rugby players not kneeling and equating that to mean they must be racist. Actually, wtf am I doing even engaging in this? It's obviously the case that you never did, do not, and never will understand this sort of thing.

[navyblueshorts]

Taking the knee shows that a fight is still ongoing.  I honestly do not see any valid reason why anyobe would be against it. I guess football has a bigger group of Bame players, so its struck home with all players more. I cant imagine a white footballer could legitimatly not kneel if black footballers are.

Maybe, they have no racism or injustice in rugby.

So, you're implying that some white footballers might feel pressured into kneeling? What a wonderful way to engender change.

The fact it's described as 'taking the knee'? The fact that you, Mac and so many others assume that anyone not doing so must be racist? As usual, this sort of thing has been taken over by the woke, virtue signalling (just for you, that, Ben ), preaching and self-righteous crew who are acting as if they're the moral guardians of society. Sorry. Do one.

God, this is boring. Round and round we go yet again. Talk amongst yourselves.

[JAS]

Taking the knee shows that a fight is still ongoing.  I honestly do not see any valid reason why anyobe would be against it. I guess football has a bigger group of Bame players, so its struck home with all players more. I cant imagine a white footballer could legitimatly not kneel if black footballers are.

Maybe, they have no racism or injustice in rugby.

I get that there is an ongoing need to flush out and eradicate racism and I don't have a problem with that. Where I have a problem and Mac doesn't seem able or willing to accept this is that.... If there is a point in time, for example before the start of of game where people have the OPTION to show solidarity and take a knee then I probably would. If on the other hand I was told that I HAD to do it I'd probably tell the requestor to eff off.

Remember back to clap for carers, 8:00pm on a Thurs night?. I appreciate what NHS staff do and so most weeks I took the option to get out the front door and have a good clap too, (indeed it progressed to banging on a pot lid with a spoon). If on the other hand we were told we HAD to do it or we'd be classed as NHS haters then obviously I'd have most deliberately NOT done it.
I do believe I'm a protestor rather than a conformist at heart, I also believe in the principle of collective action but being told I have to conform to a specific protest or I'll be forever condemned as a racist appeaser just doesn't sit well with me.

[beninho]

If you are a footballer and black footballers are taking a knee yet you don't feel the need to join on or you disagree with them on racial issues then don't do it. But, I would question someone with black teammates feeling the need to disagree with them. They shouldn't be forced into it though.

Not taking the knee isnt racist. Literally booing it probably is though.

[beninho]

And clap for carers was fu€king ridiculous.

[JAS]

Jas

I can't see a reason not to.

I've given you a reason several times now!!

I don't buy into the idea that by letting some racism (or whatever) slide

For goodness sake not taking the knee is NOT letting racism slide

I really believe that those calling it out and being woke or virtue signalling will be proven correct eventually.

Being proven correct isn't all it's cracked up to be, I'm sure there's a few things Corbyn will be proven correct on. It matters not a hairy love-sac though, he was still a dick at leadership so he never got elected.

I've said this before... woke, virtue signalling is killing the left, working class voters are deserting in droves because they think the left is led by woke virtue signallers rather than strong politicians that want to fight the good fight for better opportunity and prosperity for ordinary working class people. I'd also add this..IF we got to a point where we did have a more prosperous working class there would be a lot less racism because there would be a lot less division in society and that would benefit ALL!!!



[/quote]

[JAS]

And clap for carers was fu€king ridiculous.

Yes Ben, In an ideal world I'd rather they had a decent pay rise but a lot of those indulging in the clap would suddenly baulk at the thought of having to pay a wee bit extra in tax...so they restricted themselves to a form of gesture politics/protest/call it what you will.

[I'm never wrong]

As of now, where is racism in football taking place? If it's on the pitch, like they have done in the past, they can deal with players and make them aware their actions are wrong. It's not - at the moment- by supporters in the ground where it is harder to identify individuals committing offences. It's on social media. With the cooperation of the social media companies it should be easy to trace offenders and get them off social media and banned from ever coming back to any clubs. It just needs a willingness for those companies to do something. (My idea. make social media companies able to prosecute offenders for racism etc. Make them responsible for doing so. Someone reports abuse, they MUST take action. Prosecute offender. If it is, for example, football related, send their details to all clubs and ban them.)

Or is that too simplistic?

[beninho]

Social media is horrendous. The amount of fake accounts, bots, racist and just trolls hiding behind anonymity is a real issue. Can it be fixed. I have no idea.

Though aren't we all anonymous on here aswell.

[Soul Requiem]

Taking the knee shows that a fight is still ongoing.  I honestly do not see any valid reason why anyobe would be against it. I guess football has a bigger group of Bame players, so its struck home with all players more. I cant imagine a white footballer could legitimatly not kneel if black footballers are.

Maybe, they have no racism or injustice in rugby.

Might be worth looking at who doesn't kneel in rugby before coming out with this garbage.

[navyblueshorts]

Anti-Social media is horrendous. The amount of fake accounts, bots, racist and just trolls hiding behind anonymity is a real issue. Can it be fixed. I have no idea.

Though aren't we all anonymous on here aswell.

Fixed it for you...

[navyblueshorts]

As of now, where is racism in football taking place? If it's on the pitch, like they have done in the past, they can deal with players and make them aware their actions are wrong. It's not - at the moment- by supporters in the ground where it is harder to identify individuals committing offences. It's on social media. With the cooperation of the social media companies it should be easy to trace offenders and get them off social media and banned from ever coming back to any clubs. It just needs a willingness for those companies to do something. (My idea. make social media companies able to prosecute offenders for racism etc. Make them responsible for doing so. Someone reports abuse, they MUST take action. Prosecute offender. If it is, for example, football related, send their details to all clubs and ban them.)

Or is that too simplistic?

Sadly, I think it is. Can you imagine how difficult it will be to both track all such content and then go through the proper process to determine it should be both removed and the 'offender' prosecuted? The HR resources to able to do so? Sure, some cases will be clear, but too many won't be and will come down the sort of Mac vs. Super_Realist argument over what's OK and what isn't. Where is the line drawn? In a Court of Law?

Personally, think 'social' media is hugely flawed i.e. text-based lacking body language, nuance and allowing the keyboard warriors to write things they'd never say to someone's face. Anyone who doesn't like social media should simply get off it.

[beninho]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

[Duty281]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

[Soul Requiem]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Typical Ben in fairness not understanding a pretty simple concept.

[beninho]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Bbc licence fee? Just called tv license.

[JAS]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

What the BBC is supposed to stand for is impartiality. During a period of polarised politics like we have now, the left will see it as right wing biased and the right will see it as left wing biased. When both are saying that it therefore follows that they must be getting something right.

It's a dangerous road to go down to want to eradicate an impartial broadcaster (or indeed question its impartiality) especially when the vast majority of other broadcasters and media are ridiculously right wing. You do have to wonder who is leading such a campaign and why. Of course the other thing is that it is state funded and the Right hate everything state funded so it's no surprise really.

That being said the BBC needs to take a serious effing look in the mirror at the moment.

[Soul Requiem]

The television licence is the instrument used to raise revenue to fund the BBC; it is a form of taxation.

[McLaren]

Jas

You say you have given reasons several times for why someone might not take the knee.

Jas

I can't see a reason not to.

I've given you a reason several times now!!

And maybe I am missing something but the reason you give is freedom of choice, twice as far as I can see.

Or to put it a slightly different way...Players exercise freedom of choice in free democracy

my general guess is that most who don't will be exercising their right to have freedom of choice.

But is this really the reason why a player doesn't take the knee? It isn't, it is just the right to make that choice.


What I want to know is why (given the free choice) someone would choose not to do it? Can you think of any reasons why someone wouldn't?

[beninho]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Typical Ben in fairness not understanding a pretty simple concept.

Its a very silly view. If you don't need a tv license dont get one, if you do get one. If you don't drive your car you dont pay road tax if you do you do. Its all easy.

[Duty281]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Bbc licence fee? Just called tv license.

Which funds the BBC. I wouldn't have a problem with it, except it's legally required to watch any live TV. It should only be required to watch the BBC.

[Soul Requiem]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Typical Ben in fairness not understanding a pretty simple concept.

Its a very silly view. If you don't need a tv license dont get one, if you do get one.  If you don't drive your car you dont pay road tax if you do you do. Its all easy.

Wow what a typically garbage post. If you don't wish to fund the BBC but would like to watch live sport behind a paywall what would your solution be?

[beninho]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

What the BBC is supposed to stand for is impartiality.  During a period of polarised politics like we have now, the left will see it as right wing biased and the right will see it as left wing biased. When both are saying that it therefore follows that they must be getting something right.

It's a dangerous road to go down to want to eradicate an impartial broadcaster (or indeed question its impartiality) especially when the vast majority of other broadcasters and media are ridiculously right wing. You do have to wonder who is leading such a campaign and why. Of course the other thing is that it is state funded and the Right hate everything state funded so it's no surprise really.

That being said the BBC needs to take a serious effing look in the mirror at the moment.

I hate it when it feels tge need to get some dolt in to argue a ridiculous point, on either side of the coin. I dont see it as right or left, but I'm not entrenched in my views. I have no issues with the beeb.

[beninho]

Defundthebbc crazies in force again. What I dont get is, if you make a choice of not needing a license fee because of how you watch TV, why are you then complaining about the cost of the fee on something you dont watch. Doesnt make sense.

Because you're required to pay the license fee if you watch any live TV, not just the BBC. If the only live TV you watch is Sky Sports, you still need to pay the BBC licence fee. Which is a nonsense.

Typical Ben in fairness not understanding a pretty simple concept.

Its a very silly view. If you don't need a tv license dont get one, if you do get one.  If you don't drive your car you dont pay road tax if you do you do. Its all easy.

Wow what a typically garbage post. If you don't wish to fund the BBC but would like to watch live sport behind a paywall what would your solution be?

If you don't want to fund the government but want to drive your car, whats the solution?

The solution is you live by the rules of the land. If you want to watch live tv you pay the tv license. If you want to drive your car you pay the road tax. The same principle. Even if the bbc is defended, which would be a massive shame, a tv licence woukd still exist.

[Soul Requiem]

If you don't want to fund the government but want to drive your car, whats the solution?

The solution is you live by the rules of the land. If you want to watch live tv you pay the tv license. If you want to drive your car you pay the road tax. The same principle.  Even if the bbc is defended, which would be a massive shame, a tv licence woukd still exist.

Wait do you think the two situations are the same?

If I drive a car then my car tax funds the maintenence of the roads that I use whereas the same does not apply to the tv licence and the BBC, surprised that even you are unable to get your head around that one.

A tv licence would exist even though the very entity it funds doesn't?

[beninho]

You think car tax pays for road maintenance?

You think the tv license would just vanish? You must have a lot of trust in the government. A nice easy tax. I would be very very surprised.

[JAS]

Jas

And maybe I am missing something but the reason you give is freedom of choice, twice as far as I can see.

No you're not missing anything other than the fact that the reason I've given you is a valid one, you just don't want to accept it because it doesn't fit with your level of wokeness

But is this really the reason why a player doesn't take the knee?

YES

What I want to know is why (given the free choice) someone would choose not to do it? Can you think of any reasons why someone wouldn't?

Because they might not want to?
Because they're not like you?
They might have a zit on their knee that the grass would irritate?
They might think that the gesture has already made it's point many times over already?
They might think, f@@k it, I'm not doing that today, I cant be arsed?


It could be any one of those things and a multitude more, Who knows? who cares? If it's such a big issue for you why don't you write to all of the ones who don't and ask them why?

Personally, as I eluded to yesterday there are far more things the left in modern society should be focussed on than complaining about a lacking of solidarity in increasingly pointless virtue signalling.

[pedro]

You think car tax pays for road maintenance?

You think the tv license would just vanish? You must have a lot of trust in the government. A nice easy tax. I would be very very surprised.

So you agree it’s a TV tax and not a BBC fee? Why not call it that then?

[beninho]

It is a tv tax, like car tax, or you property tax, or your insurance premium tax, or your tax on food, booze or fags. It just goes to a different place. But like all of them, you dont pay it if you don't use them. Though IPT seems more unfair in reality. You need insurance, so taxed to drive your car then taxed on insurance of your car.

[navyblueshorts]

It is a tv tax, like car tax, or you property tax, or your insurance premium tax, or your tax on food, booze or fags. It just goes to a different place. But like all of them, you dont pay it if you don't use them. Though IPT seems more unfair in reality. You need insurance, so taxed to drive your car then taxed on insurance of your car.

Or NI that goes to fund the NHS. Trouble w/ society now is the first question anyone asks is "What's in it for me?". Selfish b'stards. If the NHS didn't already exist, there's zero chance it would be accepted based on the current model.

[McLaren]

It is a tv tax, like car tax, or you property tax, or your insurance premium tax, or your tax on food, booze or fags. It just goes to a different place. But like all of them, you dont pay it if you don't use them. Though IPT seems more unfair in reality. You need insurance, so taxed to drive your car then taxed on insurance of your car.

Or NI that goes to fund the NHS. Trouble w/ society now is the first question anyone asks is "What's in it for me?". Selfish b'stards. If the NHS didn't already exist, there's zero chance it would be accepted based on the current model.

This is so true. Can you imagine the current Brexit voting, Boris loving electorate tolerating a project like the NHS?

[beninho]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland. Its what they voted for, as they have said all along. They knew what woukd happen. Feel a bit more for the duped fishermen, but not much.

[navyblueshorts]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland. Its what they voted for, as they have said all along. They knew what woukd happen. Feel a bit more for the duped fishermen, but not much.

Yeah, but I can't help feel somewhat sorry for them. Industry emasculated over the years etc. Bit like the steel workers etc in US re. Trump. They bought the bright, shiny promises and didn't want to hear that they might be being had.

Anyone been watching 'Cornwall: This Fishing Life' recently? Areas I know really well from childhood (1970s to early 80s) and the changes since then are really stark. If anywhere illustrates the idiocy of UK housing policy, it's that part of the UK.

[dynamark]

I was in a restuarant in Sth Cornwall many years back and the guys were unloading fish just outside .I asked the chef is that where you get your fish ,He said no all of that goes to France and that was 25 years back.
TV licence I neglected to purchase several years ago as I had the house for sale after about 18 months I was rumbled and fearing a huge fine which turned out to be just £100!
I dont mind paying for BBC but just feel they tend to spend rather unwisely. How many political correspondents do you need?

[JAS]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland. Its what they voted for, as they have said all along. They knew what woukd happen. Feel a bit more for the duped fishermen, but not much.

Yeah, but I can't help feel somewhat sorry for them. Industry emasculated over the years etc. Bit like the steel workers etc in US re. Trump. They bought the bright, shiny promises and didn't want to hear that they might be being had.

Anyone been watching 'Cornwall: This Fishing Life' recently? Areas I know really well from childhood (1970s to early 80s) and the changes since then are really stark. If anywhere illustrates the idiocy of UK housing policy, it's that part of the UK.

Yes I've seen bits and pieces of it. I love Cornwall, as a golfer, surfer and lover of seafood, Cornwall and Devon are my favourite UK counties to visit by some distance. Away from the fantastic beaches though there are issues, there is a bit a a crisis in the fishing industry which Brexit will clearly exacerbate. Housing is another issue, in recent years there have been too many people (a lot with a lot more money than me) also loving Cornwall and loving it so much they're buying 2nd homes there and pricing locals out of the market. Both counties but more so Cornwall are almost totally dependent on tourism and pretty much summer levels of tourism. Trouble is that generates mostly seasonal and not very highly paid jobs. Not sure what the answer would be from a housing policy perspective other than to tax unoccupied 2nd homes until the pips squeak.

Have you taken the opportunity to play much golf in Cornwall Navy?

[McLaren]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland

The treatment of NI, most recently in the brexit debacle, and some attitudes you hear towards NI, Wales and Scotland has me wondering there are English people who have being a unionist as an important part of the world view or politics?

I think there are people that would prefer the UK to stay together but is that for reasons like it feels like the last remnants of the Empire?

Can any of you folks who live in England describe how you feel about the union and whether or not you think of yourself as a unionist?


And not to pick on Navy, but I know he has said before that the hanger on nations can get to F*** for all he cares.

[navyblueshorts]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland. Its what they voted for, as they have said all along. They knew what woukd happen. Feel a bit more for the duped fishermen, but not much.

Yeah, but I can't help feel somewhat sorry for them. Industry emasculated over the years etc. Bit like the steel workers etc in US re. Trump. They bought the bright, shiny promises and didn't want to hear that they might be being had.

Anyone been watching 'Cornwall: This Fishing Life' recently? Areas I know really well from childhood (1970s to early 80s) and the changes since then are really stark. If anywhere illustrates the idiocy of UK housing policy, it's that part of the UK.

Yes I've seen bits and pieces of it. I love Cornwall, as a golfer, surfer and lover of seafood, Cornwall and Devon are my favourite UK counties to visit by some distance. Away from the fantastic beaches though there are issues, there is a bit a a crisis in the fishing industry which Brexit will clearly exacerbate. Housing is another issue, in recent years there have been too many people (a lot with a lot more money than me) also loving Cornwall and loving it so much they're buying 2nd homes there and pricing locals out of the market. Both counties but more so Cornwall are almost totally dependent on tourism and pretty much summer levels of tourism. Trouble is that generates mostly seasonal and not very highly paid jobs. Not sure what the answer would be from a housing policy perspective other than to tax unoccupied 2nd homes until the pips squeak.

Have you taken the opportunity to play much golf in Cornwall Navy?

Yep, the housing is nuts. It can't be right that someone brought up there has to move miles away to even contemplate buying. I'd tax the second/third/whatever homes to the hilt. 100% Council Tax. Massive Stamp Duty on any second home purchase if it's not proven to be the main residence. It's a mess down there. Not sure what the answer is, but it's no excuse that politicians neither see the housing 'market' as an actual issue or bother to do anything about it. Then again, too many of them are landlords aren't they?

Played some golf down there, but not recently. Mullion, St. Mellion, West Cornwall (love that place) etc. Great days w/ my dad, looking back. Never made Trevose, which is a regret!

[navyblueshorts]

How annoying are these brexity politicians complaining about the impact of brexit on Northern Ireland

The treatment of NI, most recently in the brexit debacle, and some attitudes you hear towards NI, Wales and Scotland has me wondering there are English people who have being a unionist as an important part of the world view or politics?

I think there are people that would prefer the UK to stay together but is that for reasons like it feels like the last remnants of the Empire?

Can any of you folks who live in England describe how you feel about the union and whether or not you think of yourself as a unionist?


And not to pick on Navy, but I know he has said before that the hanger on nations can get to F*** for all he cares.

I'm a Unionist as a matter of axiom. I think we're better together and the world is basically getting smaller. I think we should be in the EU for similar reasons. We understand other cultures a lot more than in the past, so you'd think we'd all be coming together more. Spitting dummies out and wanting "Freedom!" (to be shouted in a Scottish accent) is too often childish and an outcome hijacked by narcissist politicians. Independence for Wales, Scotland, NI could be mature and worthwhile, but a) I think it's daft (see above) and b) neither the Scots or Welsh Nats seem to me to be proposing it for honest reasons apart from the "It's all Westminster's fault! Don't forget, the grass really is greener on the other side - trust us. Oh, yes, now you come to mention it, I am thinking of my political legacy..." sort of approach.

However, I am both heartily sick of the petty nationalism (from all sides) and the fact that no-one will understand what they're proposing unless they experience it (see Brexit). Therefore, let's give everyone the rope to hang themselves and repent at their own leisure. Put up or shut up.

[beninho]

Brexit will be a sh$tshow. I cant see how watching it unfold, will make independence a better idea for Scotland.

[navyblueshorts]

Brexit will be a sh$tshow. I cant see how watching it unfold, will make independence a better idea for Scotland.  

No, but they aren't interested in any parallels and/or simply think they'll be able to join the EU no problem and that will be the answer to everything. That's what you get when it's being driven by nationalist politicians only thinking about their own interests/legacy.

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