Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

8 bronze badges
The problem states, "If I buy two tickets with different numbers" – msinghal Jul 22 '15 at 6:40
Correct. I just wanted to clarify this explicitly, since this apparently causes the confusion in the internet the OP was writing about... – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 7:38
So let me get this right. If I have a 1 in 14 million of chance of winning the lottery, if I buy a further ticket with a different sequence of numbers to the first one for the same draw my chance of winning is slashed to 1 in 7 million? – Rickie Jul 22 '15 at 8:16
Yes, that is correct. – Bernhard Jul 22 '15 at 8:23

[navyblueshorts]

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/hapless-defra-secretary-eustice-humiliated-and-schooled-by-the-eu/

Tory mp is deliberately trying to twist things to put blame back on the EU for the shellfish conditions after brexit.

I'm sure even brexiteers can see how wrong and daft this guy is coming across.

Why? It's like the Trumpers in America. Agreeing one was wrong re. Brexit is now tantamount to admitting one was a prat and social media "I told you so!" morons don't help. Too many people w/ too many big egos to contemplate that sort of admission.
Who knows? It might not be as bad as suspected...

[Soul Requiem]

It doesn't prove anyone wrong that's something a lot of remainers still cannot get their heads around. Issues like this highlight why the UK left the EU, ridiculous levels of bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.

[beninho]

But, surely anyone reasonable can see Eustice is acting a bit daft. It's not anti brexit to say someone is making mistakes, or just downright lying.

[Duty281]

The vote for Brexit wasn't necessarily a vote between two things that were either good or bad. It was a vote to decide who governs the country, and which direction of travel we wanted to go down (broadly either a United States of Europe or not).

In broad big picture terms yes...that was the gist of how it was framed by many....and there was an element of that that pushed me toward NO.

The European Project when it was the EEC was fine, when it started integrating closer is where it started going wrong and and much as I detested the woman, when Thatcher stood her ground over Maastricht she was bang on.

The steps that were made toward integration were clumsy at best, downright cynical at worst, depending on how you viewed it. To go for Monetary union but not fiscal union was the absolute red flag that the EU was completely and utterly dysfunctional. The dictats by the ECB that countries couldn't run deficits left countries like Greece with absolutely nowhere else to go except default and lifetime debt subservience to Germany (realistically the only country capable of running a permanent surplus in the EU bloc). So I thought the way to go was for Britain to try an use its influence to steer the EU back to a more loosely coupled group. It became clear though that the group didn't want to listen to Cameron or provide any sort of scope that could lead to a cessation of further integration, I could only assume that there were  big vested interests pushing for further integration to suit their own ends. So there was a strong case for saying "F*** 'em, leave them to it" and I admit I fell for that. In retrospect though the right thing to do was to stay and fight to try and put things on a better footing.

If there were any chance of doing that, I might have voted Remain. But there wasn't, so I didn't.

[Duty281]

The thing with brexit is, it could be many different things to many different people.  

As Duty281 says, for some it was about who governs the country. So if you "think" Europe did, you want brexit.

And remaining in the EU also meant many different things to many different people, it wasn't a fixed idea. Some people were happy with things as they are, some wanted reform, some wanted more integration to be sped up etc.

And on the second point, it isn't a case of 'think'. The EU (which isn't Europe) had supremacy of law-making power whilst we were members - if you were unhappy with that, you might want to Leave.

[beninho]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

[Duty281]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

[JAS]

The EU (which isn't Europe) had supremacy of law-making power whilst we were members - if you were unhappy with that, you might want to Leave.

Did it really?

And we weren't allowed to opt out of anything we didn't think was workable for us?

The thing is as well, most western democracies will share a lot of common values therefore in many cases and many areas of lawmaking the basic principles and requirements will be the same. I don't buy into the idea that somehow our laws should be radically different from say Ireland? Germany? Spain? Denmark? France? I don't really see a problem with a relatively high degree of harmonisation. I'd go as far as to say you have bigger issues with countries where your laws are not more in harmony e.g. In UAE snogging in the street is illegal but here it's ok. Here you may get fined for minor theft, In Saudi, you'd most likely lose your hand. Here, you'd go down for a stretch for possessing smack, in Thailand your more likely to go down 6 feet (permanently). Imagine if laws throughout Europe were riddled with such diverse and idiosycratic differences?

I suppose in a nutshell what I'm saying is, I don't think its a huge deal either way, the general rule of law between European nations is never going to be that radically different.

Having said all that what did irritate and grate somewhat was the area of Tax Law. Again this harks back to something raised yesterday re monetary union and fiscal union. It should NEVER have been the case that multinationals could domicile themselves in one jurisdiction within a union (e.g. Ireland, Luxembourg) whilst most of their operation and where they generated most of their profits was in another (e.g. UK) THAT is exactly the kind of duplicity that completely discredits the EU. Harmonisation of Laws? Yes the EU supports that. Including Tax Law? Eh well maybe erm lets think about that for a few years and hope everybody just forgets about it.

[beninho]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

So where do you think the country has been weakened in its ability?

[McLaren]

Soul Requiem

I am a bit late to this but I would be interesting in hearing why you voted for brexit? In my circle of friends there was pretty much only a few people who admitted to voting for Brexit, so I haven't really had the chance to talk to people about why the voted for it.

Soul

Don't know if you missed this?

I am also happy to talk about why I voted remain if you are interested.

[JAS]

Soul Requiem

I am a bit late to this but I would be interesting in hearing why you voted for brexit? In my circle of friends there was pretty much only a few people who admitted to voting for Brexit, so I haven't really had the chance to talk to people about why the voted for it.

Soul

Don't know if you missed this?

I am also happy to talk about why I voted remain if you are interested.

Why don't you just post your reasoning anyway Mac, sure Soul will read it at some point.

[I'm never wrong]

You know Ben, that you must, like the BBC, do "balanced reporting". So if you have a go at the Tories, you must have a go at Labour. . Here's one to get you started. Labour Councillor gets private jab

[beninho]

You know Ben, that you must, like the BBC, do "balanced reporting". So if you have a go at the Tories, you must have a go at Labour. . Here's one to get you started. Labour Councillor gets private jab

I'm not Belgrade (partizan). Damb right she should go. I didn't know you could get private jabs anyway. I felt bad enough getting mine before peopke much more at risk.

[beninho]

Paramilitary groups withdraw support for the good Friday agreement due to the NI protocol. I'm sure we all remember Johnson lying about there being no border in the Irish Sea. I get it that people care so little about Ni, it's a shame though.

But hey, contactless to £100.

[Soul Requiem]

Is it a shame?

About time Ireland as a whole grew up and reunified, the continued union with Northern Ireland is nothing but a hindrance to the rest of the UK.

[JAS]

Is it a shame?

About time Ireland as a whole grew up and reunified, the continued union with Northern Ireland is nothing but a hindrance to the rest of the UK.

Well there's a new bottom in barrel scraping, a signal been sent that over 20 years of peace are about to get flushed down the Brexit toilet and your ambassadorial response is..."About time they grew up" Mind you it's in line with the general Tory "We don't give a F***" approach to most things.

Having said that, you do have a point on the unification idea....Again though, I think you'll find the biggest hurdle to that will be the Conservative and UNIONIST party (the clue is in the name).

[beninho]

My assumption was tory voters were generally keen on keeping the uk together. So, slightly surprised that SR2 is pro a unified Ireland. I'd guess similar for Scotland aswell?

[Soul Requiem]

My assumption was tory voters were generally keen on keeping the uk together. So, slightly surprised that SR2 is pro a unified Ireland. I'd guess similar for Scotland aswell?

I'm pro a unified Ireland on the basis it would benefit Great Britain and no i'm not for an independent Scotland or Wales. Logistically we are now at a point in time where Northern Ireland is more of a hindrance than anything,

[JAS]

My assumption was tory voters were generally keen on keeping the uk together. So, slightly surprised that SR2 is pro a unified Ireland. I'd guess similar for Scotland aswell?

I'm pro a unified Ireland on the basis it would benefit Great Britain and no i'm not for an independent Scotland or Wales. Logistically we are now at a point in time where Northern Ireland is more of a hindrance than anything,

I would also agree that perhaps we are at a point where reunification needs looked at. People that knew me growing up (in the toxic west of Scotland bigotry mix) would be dumbfounded at me uttering such a suggestion but I do think are are coming to such a crossroads of history.

Looking at it logistically it would benefit The whole island of Ireland, Great Britain and the EU if NI left the UK and (re)joined Ireland. Politically many unionists would find it unacceptable. In particular The DUP would see it as a complete and utter betrayal after the Confidence and supply agreement to keep the Tories afloat in 2019. You'd have the spectre of the Loyalist paramilitaries cutting loose as well. There is no easy answer.

[Duty281]

The EU (which isn't Europe) had supremacy of law-making power whilst we were members - if you were unhappy with that, you might want to Leave.

Did it really?

And we weren't allowed to opt out of anything we didn't think was workable for us?

The thing is as well, most western democracies will share a lot of common values therefore in many cases and many areas of lawmaking the basic principles and requirements will be the same. I don't buy into the idea that somehow our laws should be radically different  from say Ireland? Germany? Spain? Denmark? France? I don't really see a problem with a relatively high degree of harmonisation. I'd go as far as to say you have bigger issues with countries where your laws are not more in harmony e.g. In UAE snogging in the street is illegal but here it's ok. Here you may get fined for minor theft, In Saudi, you'd most likely lose your hand. Here, you'd go down for a stretch for possessing smack, in Thailand your more likely to go down 6 feet (permanently). Imagine if laws throughout Europe were riddled with such diverse and idiosycratic differences?

I suppose in a nutshell what I'm saying is, I don't think its a huge deal either way, the general rule of law between European nations is never going to be that radically different.

Having said all that what did irritate and grate somewhat was the area of Tax Law. Again this harks back to something raised yesterday re monetary union and fiscal union. It should NEVER have been the case that multinationals could domicile themselves in one jurisdiction within a union (e.g. Ireland, Luxembourg) whilst most of their operation and where they generated most of their profits was in another (e.g. UK) THAT is exactly the kind of duplicity that completely discredits the EU. Harmonisation of Laws? Yes the EU supports that. Including Tax Law? Eh well maybe erm lets think about that for a few years and hope everybody just forgets about it.

Yes, it did due to the European Communities Act of 1972, which established the supremacy of EC law (later EU law) over the UK. I agree there's not going to be a massive difference between various European countries' laws, but whilst in the EU our Parliament was not a sovereign one which, as said, weakened our democracy and the power of our elected officials.

[Duty281]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

So where do you think the country has been weakened in its ability?

UK government, not country. An example was provided.

[McLaren]

Bump

Soul Requiem

I am a bit late to this but I would be interesting in hearing why you voted for brexit? In my circle of friends there was pretty much only a few people who admitted to voting for Brexit, so I haven't really had the chance to talk to people about why the voted for it.

Soul

Don't know if you missed this?

I am also happy to talk about why I voted remain if you are interested.

[navyblueshorts]

Bump

Soul Requiem

I am a bit late to this but I would be interesting in hearing why you voted for brexit? In my circle of friends there was pretty much only a few people who admitted to voting for Brexit, so I haven't really had the chance to talk to people about why the voted for it.

Soul

Don't know if you missed this?

I am also happy to talk about why I voted remain if you are interested.

Why don't you go first for a change, Mac?

[beninho]

Isn't reasons for voting remain all pretty straightforward though.

Had no issues with the impact or regs linked to the EU. And couldn't see a benefit to leaving. That some me up anyway.

[McLaren]

Yeh pretty straightforward. And remember the burden of proof lay with those looking to change the status quo.

But if it were my burden to make the case these are the sort of things I would put forward; maintaining EU rules, freedom of movement, closer ties between the different societies around Europe, ease of trade, I bought into the philosophy of the project, better harmony among the european nations etc.


So I remind Soul again.

Soul Requiem

I am a bit late to this but I would be interesting in hearing why you voted for brexit? In my circle of friends there was pretty much only a few people who admitted to voting for Brexit, so I haven't really had the chance to talk to people about why the voted for it.

[beninho]

Hundreds of thousands on keeping priti away from an employment tribunal.

[pedro]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

Pretty academic argument since I suppose you’d be opposed to a European Federation as well.

[navyblueshorts]

Hundreds of thousands on keeping priti away from an employment tribunal.

Probably money well spent for UKG - if she'd had to justify herself at said tribunal, she'd probably have put both feet in it.

[navyblueshorts]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

With respect to the proposed increase to £100 limit contactless, personally I think that could be a little dumb. Drop/lose your card and lose £300 instantly, minimum, when some git uses it.

[Duty281]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

Pretty academic argument since I suppose you’d be opposed to a European Federation as well.

Naturally, yes, but the European Commission having supremacy of law-making power is an important block - the most important block - in establishing the United States of Europe.

[JAS]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

Pretty academic argument since I suppose you’d be opposed to a European Federation as well.

Naturally, yes, but the European Commission having supremacy of law-making power is an important block - the most important block - in establishing the United States of Europe.

So based on that logic then, do you think the US would be better breaking up? Imagine how much more economically successful California could be on its own as a free sovereign country not tied to those hangers on from Dakota, Iowa Idaho, Wisconsin etc. Those pesky New Yorkers would need passports to go to California & Florida etc Imagine all the extra Homeland security jobs that could be created across the States and all the extra guns they could tote as they managed all the additional queues at airport security/immigration. We're ahead of the game, we're already there (without the guns...obviously)

[navyblueshorts]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

Pretty academic argument since I suppose you’d be opposed to a European Federation as well.

Naturally, yes, but the European Commission having supremacy of law-making power is an important block - the most important block - in establishing the United States of Europe.

So based on that logic then, do you think the US would be better breaking up? Imagine how much more economically successful California could be on its own as a free sovereign country not tied to those hangers on from Dakota, Iowa Idaho, Wisconsin etc. Those pesky New Yorkers would need passports to go to California & Florida etc Imagine all the extra Homeland security jobs that could be created across the States and all the extra guns they could tote as they managed all the additional queues at airport security/immigration. We're ahead of the game,  we're already there (without the guns...obviously)

Well, we were....

[Duty281]

What law was forced on the uk that you don't agree with?

It isn't about specific laws, which I didn't claim it to be, it's about the decreased democratic control and the weakened ability of the UK government to do things. Thankfully that's changed now. The UK government is supreme and can be held accountable for its decisions. Today, said UK government is expected to raise the contactless payment limit to £100, in an effort to reduce contact during the Covid pandemic and boost spending on the high street. That's something it couldn't do if we were still in the EU as the EC has imposed a limit of £45.

Pretty academic argument since I suppose you’d be opposed to a European Federation as well.

Naturally, yes, but the European Commission having supremacy of law-making power is an important block - the most important block - in establishing the United States of Europe.

So based on that logic then, do you think the US would be better breaking up? Imagine how much more economically successful California could be on its own as a free sovereign country not tied to those hangers on from Dakota, Iowa Idaho, Wisconsin etc. Those pesky New Yorkers would need passports to go to California & Florida etc Imagine all the extra Homeland security jobs that could be created across the States and all the extra guns they could tote as they managed all the additional queues at airport security/immigration. We're ahead of the game,  we're already there (without the guns...obviously)

A key reason for why the possible United States of Europe won't work is because of how different the various parts are. Different economies, different standards of living, different legal systems, different languages, different customs, identities and cultures etc. You get the point, so much difference. It's too disparate to create a federal European state. 

This doesn't apply to the USA which has achieved harmony in most respects through its union, and has a strong sense of national identity through the vast majority of its 50 states. I do agree, though, that some states in the USA could prosper as independent nations in their own right - especially California, probably Texas, and definitely New York.

[McLaren]

Duty

Are you saying that in the history of the UK being in the EU there is not a specific instance of the UK having a law imposed on it or not being able to make a law it wants due to that membership that would form part of your argument for leaving the EU?

It's like you are so worried about that scenario arising at some point you felt like we needed to get out now before our "sovereignty" was encroached?

[I'm never wrong]

Duty

Are you saying that in the history of the UK being in the EU there is not a specific instance of the UK having a law imposed on it or not being able to make a law it wants due to that membership that would form part of your argument for leaving the EU?

It's like you are so worried about that scenario arising at some point you felt like we needed to get out now before our "sovereignty" was encroached?

Well, Mac, Belgium, France and the UK were asked to amend the law regarding the retention of "bulk" telecommunications data. Now, depending on your point of view, that may have been a good or bad thing. But it was an ruling where European Law took precedence and the UK was asked/told to change.

[Duty281]

Duty

Are you saying that in the history of the UK being in the EU there is not a specific instance of the UK having a law imposed on it or not being able to make a law it wants due to that membership that would form part of your argument for leaving the EU?

It's like you are so worried about that scenario arising at some point you felt like we needed to get out now before our "sovereignty" was encroached?

Depends on your definition of 'imposed'. Between 1993 and 2014, 231 Acts Of Parliament implemented EU obligations, and over 4,000 statutory instruments in the same time-frame also implemented EU obligations. That comes to 13% of the total laws passed in the UK in this time-frame and doesn't actually include the entirety of EU regulation that was introduced. Now this wasn't imposed in the sense that the UK government actively fought against it; it was introduced as part of our membership of the EU where we accept that EU law is supreme over UK law. Any area where the EU has implemented a law/regulation is an area where (whilst members of the EU) the UK government can't overturn or reverse it, because of this supremacy of EU law.

Our sovereignty as a nation has already been encroached upon heavily over the past fifty years by the European project: not only by the supremacy of EU law, but also through the European Arrest Warrant; the Common Fisheries and Agricultural Policy; the inability of the UK to sign its own trade arrangements; and the loss of the UK's independent voice on numerous global platforms. Thankfully, this is all changing now.

It wasn't a case of getting out now in case our sovereignty was encroached, it was a case of getting out now as it's our last chance.

[beninho]

Duty281, you seem to have more issues with the fact that the UK aligned with the EU with laws rather then what laws we aligned with.

Is there anyway, you woukd accept that brexit was wrong? Or just the the fact we have sovereignty is worth it, no matter what?

[Soul Requiem]

You would have to think Brexit was wrong in the first place in order to accept such a thing.

[beninho]

You would have to think Brexit was wrong in the first place in order to accept such a thing.

I think, and it's just a think, that plenty of people voted brexit, who weren't wedded to the idea of parliamentary sovereignty. But thought it would be a beneficial for them. But, have started to see, already that this may not be the case, or have seen it being harder to trade rather then easier.

Some, like duty or probably yourself, don't really care about the impact on others if detrimental as long as it answers to what you wanted.

[Duty281]

Duty281, you seem to have more issues with the fact that the UK aligned with the EU with laws rather then what laws we aligned with.

Is there anyway, you woukd accept that brexit was wrong? Or just the the fact we have sovereignty is worth it, no matter what?

Yes, because I don't support a federal European project, for the reasons I've outlined.

No, I don't think (not accept) Brexit was wrong. I disagree with the aims and mechanisms of the EU, why would I change my mind about leaving such an organisation?

[Soul Requiem]

You would have to think Brexit was wrong in the first place in order to accept such a thing.

I think, and it's just a think, that plenty of people voted brexit, who weren't wedded to the idea of parliamentary sovereignty. But thought it would be a beneficial for them. But, have started to see, already that this may not be the case, or have seen it being harder to trade rather then easier.  

Some, like duty or probably yourself, don't really care about the impact on others if detrimental as long as it answers to what you wanted.

Or perhaps people have a different point of view, just possibly.

[beninho]

I get that people have different views. Just wondered how entrenched they were. It's just interesting to see someone who believes, that no matter what the outcome, he can honestly say, I don't care.

[JuliusHMarx]

This doesn't apply to the USA which has achieved harmony in most respects through its union.

We saw on Jan 6th how united they all are.

[beninho]

It's a bit like hanging. Duty and SR are like people who want to bring it back. It doesn't matter if any of it goes wrong for some people. If the goal of bringing it back is achieved.

[Soul Requiem]

You talk as though your opinion somehow matters or that you're enlightened. Failure is a relative term, for me seeing the EU attempt to strong arm the UK over the AZ vaccine was enough to legitimize my viewpoint.

[beninho]

My opinion, like yours or generally everyone on here, means little to nothing to anyone else. I just like getting to hear from extremists.

[navyblueshorts]

I get that people have different views. Just wondered how entrenched they were. It's just interesting to see someone who believes, that no matter what the outcome, he can honestly say, I don't care.

Who said 'they' don't care? Perhaps, just perhaps, their priority is elsewhere and they are OK w/ accepting what you perceive to be negatives in order for their positives to come to pass?

Why is it that so many can't/won't consider that? Or is it their arrogance that simply assumes that their views have axiomatic primacy? Probably the latter.

[navyblueshorts]

It's a bit like hanging. Duty and SR are like people who want to bring it back. It doesn't matter if any of it goes wrong for some people. If the goal of bringing it back is achieved.

Nice assumption there. You don't understand their views, so you conflate two different issues as if that makes it so. Not only that, you take a shocking & very divisive issue to try to make it seem as if they're in some way bonkers. Try again.

[navyblueshorts]

My opinion, like yours or generally everyone on here, means little to nothing to anyone else. I just like getting to hear from extremists.

You just won't learn, will you? No wonder people won't have a reasoned discussion w/ you.

[Soul Requiem]

I don't understand how Ben cannot understand that, different people have different priorities. It's why I have no inclination to state my reason which I have in the past stated.

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