Rest of the World

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Duty281 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:So the most likely scenario is an Australia/New Zealand final at Lord's.

There are many things wrong with the WTC - points system is convulsed and perhaps not particularly fair - but Test cricket at neutral venues is something worth getting excited about! Shame it is only one game.

Yeah, I can't personally say that I am a fan of the WTC. The points system doesn't work properly, fixtures are of unequal value and weighting, and boiling an entire test championship down to one solitary fixture to decide the winner doesn't seem right to me.

That said, I think that Australia and New Zealand are the two best test teams in the world right now and, if that is the final, it would be the right fixture. A shame, as you say, that it's only one game and not, at least, a three-game series.

The current system is a temporary fudge to get around the unforseen situation and make the best of whatever fixtures could be fulfilled.

Had it gone to plan all the teams wouldve played home and away fixtures and had equal opportunities to earn points. That hasnt been the case, but at the same time I dont think anyone can argue theres not a clear top 3 teams with England sat just behind them and the rest of the world a significant step back from that.

One off game may be a bit unfair in that the toss could well play a major part in deciding it, but its always been about providing a focused big televised event rather than genuine competition. However the remaining fixtures pan out we should end up with two teams who deserve to be in the final even if New Zealand have just played at home. A long series in a neutral country just isn't viable in the modern calendar or that interesting to anything other than the hardcore fans.

Ah - settled for them.

So technically all four results possible . If SA can get 305 they will really deserve the win !

If South Africa got 305 on this it may be the greatest fourth innings chase of all time!

Duty281 wrote:If South Africa got 305 on this it may be the greatest fourth innings chase of all time!

Certainly at the Centurian.

This one was truly remarkable and a shattering loss for Australia though. Also the 414 SA chased down. That was epic.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-west-indies-2003-61389/west-indies-vs-australia-4th-test-64027/full-scorecard

Pal Joey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:If South Africa got 305 on this it may be the greatest fourth innings chase of all time!

Certainly at the Centurian.

This one was truly remarkable and a shattering loss for Australia though.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-west-indies-2003-61389/west-indies-vs-australia-4th-test-64027/full-scorecard

I still can’t believe SA turned down going for this chase in 2013. They pulled up 8 short!

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-south-africa-2013-14-648627/south-africa-vs-india-1st-test-648665/full-scorecard

JDizzle wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:If South Africa got 305 on this it may be the greatest fourth innings chase of all time!

Certainly at the Centurian.

This one was truly remarkable and a shattering loss for Australia though.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-west-indies-2003-61389/west-indies-vs-australia-4th-test-64027/full-scorecard

I still can’t believe SA turned down going for this chase in 2013. They pulled up 8 short!

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-south-africa-2013-14-648627/south-africa-vs-india-1st-test-648665/full-scorecard

Yeah JD.

A mate of mine was really having a go at Graeme Smith and his captaincy at the time. He had very defensive field placings during India's 2nd innings when they should have gone for the throat. Then they really looked totally in control and completely on track to get the runs during their chase... they were doing it easily and were almost there. And then they sort of stopped within 8 feet of the summit of Everest!

I never understood that.

Raf is there a chance of crowds being let into any of the remaining tests?

Pal Joey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:If South Africa got 305 on this it may be the greatest fourth innings chase of all time!

Certainly at the Centurian.

This one was truly remarkable and a shattering loss for Australia though. Also the 414 SA chased down. That was epic.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-west-indies-2003-61389/west-indies-vs-australia-4th-test-64027/full-scorecard

Remarkable to think that was considered to be a weak West Indies side which it was but four of that top six walk into any current international side.

Chanderpaul was always someone I loved to watch. The focus on his quirky trigger and initial stance ignored how good he was technically, that innings in particular showed he did have another gear when needed. Sarwan was a far better player than his record suggested, an average of just over 40 doesn't do his talent justice. Then you had Lara who was well just Lara.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Raf is there a chance of crowds being let into any of the remaining tests?

Good question, no clue. I'm unfortunately a resident of the Commonwealth of Australia now, so I have no clue.

From what I've heard though, India and SA have an agreement that if there is an outbreak, India are within their rights to depart from the tour, which I think is fair enough. Because of this I think CSA will probably keep this tour with as few human beings involved as possible, ie no crowds.

Pitch has seemingly settled a bit, probably due to the Roller between the innings

kingraf wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Raf is there a chance of crowds being let into any of the remaining tests?

Good question, no clue. I'm unfortunately a resident of the Commonwealth of Australia now, so I have no clue.

From what I've heard though, India and SA have an agreement that if there is an outbreak, India are within their rights to depart from the tour, which I think is fair enough. Because of this I think CSA will probably keep this tour with as few human beings involved as possible, ie no crowds.

Thought I saw you mention that you're living 'in the sticks' on another post, raf.
Whereabouts are you? Which state? Have they forced you to live in a regional area and if so for how long?

Pal Joey wrote:

kingraf wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Raf is there a chance of crowds being let into any of the remaining tests?

Good question, no clue. I'm unfortunately a resident of the Commonwealth of Australia now, so I have no clue.

From what I've heard though, India and SA have an agreement that if there is an outbreak, India are within their rights to depart from the tour, which I think is fair enough. Because of this I think CSA will probably keep this tour with as few human beings involved as possible, ie no crowds.

Thought I saw you mention that you're living 'in the sticks' on another post, raf.
Whereabouts are you? Which state? Have they forced you to live in a regional area and if so for how long?

Not forced, I got recruited by a company in the sticks, and every time I try to leave for the bright lights, they offer me more money so what can ya do. I'm currently slumming it in Central Queensland. This was my second Christmas, so probably 18-odd months.

Petersen plays across his pads ( and hence across the line).
Looks stylish when it comes off...but won't come off too often on pitches that seam a bit

Surprised Ashwin hasnt come on yet. It's not spitting like it did earlier, but I think he could be the one to open this whole game up.

The door cracks open courtesy a beauty from Bumrah.
I already saw deliveries from Thakur jump up a bit in his last over
half a dozen overs more today

It was a great ball, but its the sort of ball that gets bowled to you when you're on 11 off 65. If you let a bowler just bowl at you, eventually a quality bowler finds the magic ball. That's not to say a counter attacking innings was needed, but you can't just be a training cone.

94/4. South Africa need 210. India need six wickets. The new ball still a way away. Rain forecast in the second session. I guess you could say... the first hour will be crucial

Took pitch out of the equation Bumrah.....marvelous that last ball to shatter any hopes that had starting building up in SA minds

Wasn't reverse swinging this one like the scorchers he produced in his last test to Pope and Bairstow

Test match shaping up fine. Hope the rain will let enough play for a proper result. Bumrah's late strikes have kept India ahead. But If South Africa get one more good partnership, for the 5th or 6th wicket, then Kohli and India won't be able to attack as much as they would want to. A South Africa win would need Quinton de Kock to do something special, with some support from Bavuma or the skipper. And they would need at least another couple of sessions. Still not impossible, but 4 already gone, on a 5th day track, India are better placed.
It was a collective batting effort of just about adequate from the Indian batting unit with Rishabh Pant's 34 being the top-scoring performance. Kohli keeps returning uncomfortably often to his 2014 England tour habits. Hope 2022 will be the starting of a better face for the skipper, but as age is slowly catching up with him, Kohli should find different ways to what worked for him in the past, as the reflexes aren't quite the same. Time's getting up for Rahane, and yes, even Cheteshwar Pujara. Agarwal, Gill or probably Vihari should now be given an opportunity at 3. Rahane needed a big innings, not 40s and 20s, because that's all he has been getting for a year now, and before that hundred in Australia, a year leading up to that too. Pujara still have more credit in the bank as he still has some decisive recent contributions. But that credit is not unending...

Bumrah once was excellent, Shami was excellent in his first spell. Siraj did a good job though didn't look at his best. I was hoping for R Ashwin to have a more impactful performance in the 2nd innings, particularly as the track was showing variable bounce. thought Kohli should have given him a go with a newish ball... Yes, he kept it quiet, but didn't look like taking too many wickets. Will have to play a big role tomorrow in whatever play we get in, Bumrah can't be asked to do it all by himself...

Confident start from South Africa. Ball doing nothing dramatic. Also seems the chances of rain have come down as well.
Did India bat too recklessly in the 2nd innings? The 30-40 runs they left behind, would it come back to haunt them?

The first half hour producing 24 runs and India haven't found an opening yet. SA playing it the right way, giving themselves a chance. Not going into a shell, proactively looking to score without doing anything silly, and thus reminding the bowlers that they do have a target to defend. Another 187 away and that is a lot of runs, but the Indians would always have it in the back of their minds, now that the rain has become even more unpredictable.

Kohli unable to go for outright attack because of the target not being out of reach and rain scenario being unpredictable. As a result, when Bumrah found Elgar's edge, the ball went in the air, through the gap for 4... The South African skipper looking very proactive out there. Bavuma has also looked solid so far.
Think Kohli should get Ashwin on from one end, with a mandate to dry things up.

Think it has to be Siraj and Ashwin for majority of overs with the old ball, with short spells for Bumrah and Shami in between.

India are creating enough chances. Hard to think that they wont clean up with the second new ball, regardless of the situation at the presentation of the new ball.

Well they're halfway to the target - and plenty of overs left . But you'd think once one of these two goes India might roll them up...

India gives the impression of trying too hard.....and letting SA score too quickly this morning

Ball ain't really misbehaving...though its still seaming around

India are creating lots of half chances. The problem is I think Kohli has started looking at the "runs to win" column, because the field has started spreading. Like with that ball, de Kock was squared up a little there, and it went through the air to deep backward point. The adoption of boundary riders takes away the leading edge dismissals and means now the bowlers are bowling for genuine edges and thick, outside half of the bat dismissals are no longer in play. Interesting old dance this cricket game.

Doesn't matter in the end. de Kock drags on for the second time in the game. That's it for him this series. Daddy duties time. Another wicket, and India might be looking at the extra half hour.

Yeah , matter of time now I think.  That rain just didn't turn up , eh ?

Wiaan Mulder is turning 24, and he's running out of time to keep being selected on Golden Boy promise. Good ball to be fair, but averages of 15 and 14 in Test and ODI suggests that whatever promise he has with the willow needs to be finetuned before he comes again.

Now as you see SA unravel fast now towards an inevitable end you realize

It was really Elgar's extraordinary application that made an extremely difficult pitch appear "survivable" for a long while

kingraf wrote:Wiaan Mulder is turning 24, and he's running out of time to keep being selected on Golden Boy promise. Good ball to be fair, but averages of 15 and 14 in Test and ODI suggests that whatever promise he has with the willow needs to be finetuned before he comes again.

Only 24.....in Aus Khwaja, a year older than Root ( 31) is still considered a promising youngster  

Problem I see with Mulder is his bowling.....not good enuf as a seamer....especially in a nation that has such a high standard for pace/seam bowling as well as for bowling allrounders
If he was a better bowler looked like picking a wicket or two every inning.......sooner than later he will get runs

Not exactly on Mulder but more generally SA needs a bowling allrounder in top-7

KP_fan wrote:

kingraf wrote:Wiaan Mulder is turning 24, and he's running out of time to keep being selected on Golden Boy promise. Good ball to be fair, but averages of 15 and 14 in Test and ODI suggests that whatever promise he has with the willow needs to be finetuned before he comes again.

Only 24.....in Aus Khwaja, a year older than Root ( 31) is still considered a promising youngster  

Problem I see with Mulder is his bowling.....not good enuf as a seamer....especially in a nation that has such a high standard for pace/seam bowling as well as for bowling allrounders
If he was a better bowler looked like picking a wicket or two every inning.......sooner than later he will get runs

Not exactly on Mulder but more generally SA needs a bowling allrounder in top-7

To be honest, when we've looked at our best Post-Kallis, it's generally been with a traditional 7/4 split. The desire to have an all rounder who can put in 15 overs in a day is understandable, but I do honestly wonder how often in the modern game does a team get into that fifth session where having a fifth bowler to have divided the work really pays off? Definitely not in South Africa, anyway.

Overall its been a good Test, I think. Obviously you wanna win at home, but we are the #6 side in the world, so need to be realistic about your opportunities and abilities. Still can't help but feel that we've got a great pace attack, a capable spinner, a decent opening pairing. Quinny is one of the best WK/Bats in the world. We're just one gun batsman short of being a competitive side again. Although, as England have found out, getting a competent batsman is hard enough. Let alone a gun bat.

Having a 5th bowler who can do 10 to 15 overs not just to give rest to the top-3 seamers...but also be capable of picking a wicket or 2 in each inning is the endevour of test sides these days in their quest for "balance"

It distributes the workload of the top seamers...and the more potent way is to have a bowling allrounder rather than a batting allrounder

Ind, Eng, Aus all have found success in this endevour in Woakes / Stokes, Green, Pandya, Shardul, Washington have that skill.

Looking back at SA Vernon Philander averaged 24 with the bat and would have made an appropriate bowling allrounder
Albie Morkel didn't ply test cricket...but someone like him if around would fit in too.

Doesn't SA have any in FC of this breed......who can bowl 130-135kph and look like scoring 25+ with the bat in tests?

Those pushing the case for Ashwin...take note how ineffective he has been with the ball...and how limited as a batsman in these conditions.....and leaving the side so imbalanced

So India 3 wickets away at lunch, and the rain hasn't turned up as yet. Young Marco Jansen impressive in his short stay at the crease. Ashwin was just beginning to get into his work, troubled Bavuma a bit in that last spell, Temba has otherwise looked quite solid out there. KG can certainly bat and his batting is picking up of late. This may not the kind of situation to his liking though. So there is Temba, there is a decent couple of lower order bats, and the threat of rain that should come any time now.
Hope Kohli would give Bumrah and Shami a couple of overs up front after lunch, and then put Ashwin on till the new ball, along with Siraj and an over or 2 from Shardul who has this habit of producing a wicket when you just don't see it coming.
Bavuma has been brilliant in this test so far. Has stood up to a demanding attack in challenging conditions and looked largely untroubled in his stays.

kingraf wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

kingraf wrote:Wiaan Mulder is turning 24, and he's running out of time to keep being selected on Golden Boy promise. Good ball to be fair, but averages of 15 and 14 in Test and ODI suggests that whatever promise he has with the willow needs to be finetuned before he comes again.

Only 24.....in Aus Khwaja, a year older than Root ( 31) is still considered a promising youngster  

Problem I see with Mulder is his bowling.....not good enuf as a seamer....especially in a nation that has such a high standard for pace/seam bowling as well as for bowling allrounders
If he was a better bowler looked like picking a wicket or two every inning.......sooner than later he will get runs

Not exactly on Mulder but more generally SA needs a bowling allrounder in top-7

To be honest, when we've looked at our best Post-Kallis, it's generally been with a traditional 7/4 split. The desire to have an all rounder who can put in 15 overs in a day is understandable, but I do honestly wonder how often in the modern game does a team get into that fifth session where having a fifth bowler to have divided the work really pays off? Definitely not in South Africa, anyway.

What happened to Dwaine Pretorius? His record at test level isn't too different to Mulder and he's 32. But Mulder isn't looking like too much of an improvement on him. Who else could be possible candidates for that number 7 all-rounder? Young Marco, seems he can hold a bat. He does seem a much better bowler than either Pretorius or Mulder. Raf Do you see him batting test number 7? If so, they can bring together KG, Nortje and Ngidi/Olivier, supported by the more than capable Keshav Maharaj. That would be one formidable bowling lineup...

Jansen seems to have decided to win the test all by himself, greets Shami with back-to-back boundaries first over back in after lunch.

Kohli again, not attacking Jansen that much.

Doesn't matter, as Shami has his revenge served hot!

Has to be Bumrah from the other end now for sure!

Job done for India!! And its a twin strike from Ravichandran Ashwin that ends it! South Africa bowled out for 191, India win by 113!

Don't panic msp...it was always a matter of time...and Ashwin seemingly read what i wrote and polished off the tail...SA fall short of their first inning total...rain did not arrive to save them.
Those last 2 tame wickets ensured that Vihari will not replace Ashwin as the bowling allrounder

Historic win for India....who as a team have improved enormously....batting is a concern and, but the win has probably given longer life to Kohli....and I think he will dispose Pujara next game for Iyer

The Indians started the year with those terrific results at the SCG and the Gabba, and they have done it in Centurion to close it off! Despite his batting struggles, Virat Kohli can be proud of what he has managed to achieve with this team...
Hopefully, 2022 will continue the good run for the Indian test team, and our struggling batting unit will find a new life, led from the front by the skipper...

msp83 wrote:The Indians started the year with those terrific results at the SCG and the Gabba, and they have done it in Centurion to close it off! Despite his batting struggles, Virat Kohli can be proud of what he has managed to achieve with this team...
Hopefully, 2022 will continue the good run for the Indian test team, and our struggling batting unit will find a new life, led from the front by the skipper...

I have this unique happy space of mind now
If Kohli doesn't score but keeps winning....OK..keep him
If he loses & is not scoring...sack the bugger

KP_fan wrote:Don't panic msp...it was always a matter of time...and Ashwin seemingly read what i wrote and polished off the tail...SA fall short of their first inning total...rain did not arrive to save them.
Those last 2 tame wickets ensured that Vihari will not replace Ashwin as the bowling allrounder

Historic win for India....who as a team have improved enormously....batting is a concern and, but the win has probably given longer life to Kohli....and I think he will dispose Pujara next game for Iyer

Yes, the batting indeed is a concern. And yes, Kohli might decide to dispose of Pujara and perhaps bring in Iyer or Vihari in. Think the man who deserves the chop a great deal more is Ajinkya Rahane, he has been struggling for the best part of 3 years now. Pujara even now, can score regular Denturies even if
he hasn't tonned up for a while. Rahane doesn't even last long enough at the crease more often than not, often the instigator or part of a collapse.
The only man who can really replace R Ashwin in the 11 with his own legitimate claims is the injured and unavailable Ravindra Jadeja. If both aren't available, Axar/Washington would come into the picture. Hanuma Vihari isn't an all-rounder by any stretch of imagination, he's a very average parttime slow bowler who isn't even that good a bat.
For me, Shreyas for Ajinkya for the next game. And would risk Bumrah only if he's a hundred percent. Else, Umesh to step in for him for the 2nd test with Bumrah returning for the last game. Jas seemed alright though, and so hopefully, he should be ready to go in the next game...

msp wrote:Think the man who deserves the chop a great deal more is Ajinkya Rahane, he has been struggling for the best part of 3 years now.

I would have had no qualms if Rahane was sacked before the start of the game.
BUT that you decide to give him one more game...then you have to look at this game...and he looked in sublime touch....and scored enuf runs in the context of the game also
He gets two more games and don't be surprised if he cracks a hundred in remaining games

KP_fan wrote:

msp wrote:Think the man who deserves the chop a great deal more is Ajinkya Rahane, he has been struggling for the best part of 3 years now.

I would have had no qualms if Rahane was sacked before the start of the game.
BUT that you decide to give him one more game...then you have to look at this game...and he looked in sublime touch....and scored enuf runs in the context of the game also
He gets two more games and don't be surprised if he cracks a hundred in remaining games

Rahane looked untroubled on day one and he did come in a situation wherein his his recent usual would have ruined a situation of advantage for the team. But yet again, he got a start and didn't make it count. For how long would say 20s, 30s and 40s can be the better performances from a test number 5? Other than the ton at the MCG, that's all that we have been getting from Rahane for a very long time. Not even big 50s.

Rahane was extremely lucky to get this game, he should have made it count. He didn't and it will be totally unfair to keep someone like Shreyas who did everything asked of him in his debut test, and even Vihari who got runs for the A team in South African conditions against an attack that included the likes of Marco Jansen and Lutho Sipamla.
Now that they've won, think both Pujara and Rahane will get one more game. Pujara deserves his, Rahane doesn't. But well...