Rest of the World

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:So the most likely scenario is an Australia/New Zealand final at Lord's.

There are many things wrong with the WTC - points system is convulsed and perhaps not particularly fair - but Test cricket at neutral venues is something worth getting excited about! Shame it is only one game.

Yeah, I can't personally say that I am a fan of the WTC. The points system doesn't work properly, fixtures are of unequal value and weighting, and boiling an entire test championship down to one solitary fixture to decide the winner doesn't seem right to me.

That said, I think that Australia and New Zealand are the two best test teams in the world right now and, if that is the final, it would be the right fixture. A shame, as you say, that it's only one game and not, at least, a three-game series.

The current system is a temporary fudge to get around the unforseen situation and make the best of whatever fixtures could be fulfilled.

Had it gone to plan all the teams wouldve played home and away fixtures and had equal opportunities to earn points. That hasnt been the case, but at the same time I dont think anyone can argue theres not a clear top 3 teams with England sat just behind them and the rest of the world a significant step back from that.

One off game may be a bit unfair in that the toss could well play a major part in deciding it, but its always been about providing a focused big televised event rather than genuine competition. However the remaining fixtures pan out we should end up with two teams who deserve to be in the final even if New Zealand have just played at home. A long series in a neutral country just isn't viable in the modern calendar or that interesting to anything other than the hardcore fans.

I think Rahane made this test count given the context of pitch
I would give him two more games

Ideally Kohli shud be the one making way for Iyer....but since he is captain and Pujara failed both innings.....I believe Pujara will be disposed by him

Ended with a bit of a whimper, but some positives to glean, I think. Hopefully we are that little bit more incisive early on in Johannesburg.

It's easy to make excuses, but I look at our Future Tours and I think its a real opportunity for someone to stake their claim. We've got 14 Tests in the next 53 weeks, and I think, especially for guys trying to make their way, it's better to play more and figure out what works best for you.

https://twitter.com/officialcsa/status/1476606613280763906?s=21

Wow!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/officialcsa/status/1476606613280763906?s=21

Wow!

Yup
WOW

In QDK, Bavuma & Elgar I sense are 3 equal captaincy aspirants....bound in dynamic tension by the bureaucracy of cricket boards

Pollock on air made statements that implies De Kock doesn't seem to be playing responsibly when dismissed..and wondered what kinda talk Captain / Coach will have with him on responsible batting

.

What a shame. QdK is the best keeper batsman in Test cricket for my money. A fantastic gloveman and often devastating batsman.

Watling, now retired as well of course, was a very valuable member of the NZ side but a significant proportion of his runs were made on good batting surfaces at home it should be noted.

Rishabh is one of my favourite cricketers that produces match turning knocks and has improved a lot with the gloves. I'd definitely still consider Quinton the better keeper and a more consistent batsman though.

A shame for Quinton, the Proteas and Test cricket as a whole.

He's only 29 and I won't be surprised if he "reconsiders" and comes back after a while

That's a sad loss for the game, another nail in the coffin for Test cricket. Shows though that players really don't have to bother with Tests if they don't want to, I doubt the rewards are that big playing for SA vs franchise cricket etc. There were already issues around kolpak deals taking away some good players as well.

Surprising from de Kock. Perhaps the pandemic restrictions, coupled with the approaching arrival of his first child made this decision for him. If the Pandemic circumstances change for the better some time next year, QdK might still, hopefully reconsider...
Or, someone like Verreynne or Rickelton will make this opportunity count, and take that call out of de Kock's hands.
So Raf, who is it going to be for the next test? Kyle Verreynne or Ryan Rickelton taking the gloves? And who do you see as the successor to Quinton beyond the series? The other contender would be Sinethemba Qeshile isn't he?

A real shame that news and a big loss for test cricket, probably related to the behind the scenes stuff with SA cricket, which is usually a headache at the best of times. And we know de Kock had a recent disagreement.

Shakib-al-Hasan said that playing in three formats internationally is close to impossible and I agree with that. It may be time for those players gifted enough to play in all three to choose. Shakib himself is missing out on the upcoming test series to New Zealand for his country because he needs a rest.

I think there is more to it than spending time with his family. I think he is fed up with CSA

msp83 wrote:Surprising from de Kock. Perhaps the pandemic restrictions, coupled with the approaching arrival of his first child made this decision for him. If the Pandemic circumstances change for the better some time next year, QdK might still, hopefully reconsider...
Or, someone like Verreynne or Rickelton will make this opportunity count, and take that call out of de Kock's hands.
So Raf, who is it going to be for the next test? Kyle Verreynne or Ryan Rickelton taking the gloves? And who do you see as the successor to Quinton  beyond the series? The other contender would be Sinethemba Qeshile isn't he?

I won't be surprised if he does.....it can happen in times when there are multiple equally big personalities around the same time.....and a a weak / fragmented board
There was a time when I think Younis Khan famously announced " I am retiring for now" ...when the Pak captaincy was rotating between Misbah, Younis and Afridi

While I'm sure the situation at CSA Towers doesn't help. I'd be surprised if that's the reason he retired. Not unless he thinks the Test team and the white ball teams are run by different boards.

Can't say I'm shocked. As he says , his family is important right now and the prospect of 14 Tests in a year with the pandemic still running probably seems a bit daunting. That business at the t20 can't have helped his mood ; he may well feel SA are going to struggle for a little while anyway ; and it just may be that for a variety of reasons , including those , he no longer enjoys it.

VTR wrote:That's a sad loss for the game, another nail in the coffin for Test cricket. Shows though that players really don't have to bother with Tests if they don't want to, I doubt the rewards are that big playing for SA vs franchise cricket etc. There were already issues around kolpak deals taking away some good players as well.

Yes the wider context to the whole "English cricket" discussions, really is that test cricket is a dying format across the cricketing globe. Costs the cricket boards outside of the "Big Three" ridiculous amounts of money (if I remember correctly they lose on average $500,000 per test), there is waning interest in many of these countries (West Indies springs to mind as the main example, test matches are sparsely attended there in normal times) and of course now players are realising the money is elsewhere in the game.

If you are a cricketer such as De Kock (I use him as an example, this might not be the full reason he has retired from tests) - why would you invest your practice time and abilities into becoming good at a format of the game in which you make significantly less money (over the course of your already short career), puts more strain on your body, and you can see the authorities have less interest in? The only real reason is "tradition".
You can secure your families, and potentially generational wealth if you are good enough, playing the franchise circuit - you don't get that playing first class cricket only these days really

Two-test series between NZ and Bangladesh starts in just under two hours. New Zealand looking to bounce back from a 1-0 defeat to India last month.

It seems a mismatch on paper and would be a mammoth upset if the visitors win. New Zealand are missing Williamson for this test, but do have Conway and Boult (who may hit 300 wickets in this test) returning. Bangladesh are without Shakib (rested), Tamim (injured) and Mamudullah (retired), and have a shocking record of nine games and nine losses in tests played in New Zealand.

This Devon Conway looks a quite magnificent player. Bangladesh, I’d assume are modest opponents? But Conway looked a class above from I saw.

Conway continues his fine start to his test career. But Bangladesh showed some fight on that first day. But its their batting that will really have to stand up. But without Tamim and Shakib, a lot will rest on Mushfiqur Rahim, and perhaps Liton Das.

Conway does look like the real deal but I cannot get past the fact he shouldn't be playing for New Zealand.

Soul Requiem wrote:Conway does look like the real deal but I cannot get past the fact he shouldn't be playing for New Zealand.

New Zealand and England have been fortunate in that respect. Pietersen, Trott, Archer, Watling, Conway and many others...

alfie wrote:Can't say I'm shocked. As he says , his family is important right now and the prospect of 14 Tests in a year with the pandemic still running probably seems a bit daunting. That business at the t20 can't have helped his mood ; he may well feel SA are going to struggle for a little while anyway ;  and it just may be that for a variety of reasons ,  including those , he no longer enjoys it.

Give him a couple of months putting up with a wife/kid combination and he'll be begging for one of those old-style 5-test tours starting and ending with a three-week boat trip.

Bangladesh actually giving it a damn good go, fair play to them. They bowled New Zealand out for 328 with a controlled and mostly disciplined effort. At stumps on day two Bangladesh are 175/2, a top effort v this Kiwi attack at home, and Mushfiqur and Liton Das are yet to arrive at the crease.

It may come apart with the second new ball, but if Bangladesh can see if off and get up to 400 it's game on.

A fine performance indeed from Bangladesh. It can still go bust pretty soon tomorrow morning, but Mominul batting, and Rahim and Das yet to come this is a great opportunity for them, to put up a big score on the board. Try to bat for majority of the day tomorrow, If they manage 2 sessions, should be a first innings lead.
That may not be enough even after that, remember a test in which they'd scored 500 something in the first innings to then let New Zealand outscore them, and then fold up in the 2nd innings themselves to lose the game. But an unexpected good performance from the Bangladesh batting unit to give a promising start to 2022 and put behind a terrible 2021...

Chairman of selectors Chetan Sharma refutes Kohli & in the process implicates him as
A Liar
& Inconsiderate to have announced his resignation just before the World Cup

Now if Kohli remains silent, he will be deemed by both his fans and increasingly becoming hyper nationalist Indian cricket followers as both liar & putting his whims / conveniences above national interest

I am not sure though Chetan is speaking truth...but is counting more on Kohli will not have courage to refute his statement
If Kihli does state or even imply that Chetan is incorrect....will amount to a full blown war
He is Kohli...he can take on the selectors.....but for that he has to score runs and win the series

KP_fan wrote:Chairman of selectors Chetan Sharma refutes Kohli & in the process implicates him as
A Liar
& Inconsiderate to have announced his resignation just before the World Cup

Now if Kohli remains silent, he will be deemed by both his fans and increasingly becoming hyper nationalist Indian cricket followers as both liar & putting his whims / conveniences above national interest

I am not sure though Chetan is speaking truth...but is counting more on Kohli will not have courage to refute his statement
If Kihli does state or even imply that Chetan is incorrect....will amount to a full blown war
He is Kohli...he can take on the selectors.....but for that he has to score runs and win the series

Kohli might just go ahead and do exactly that, Dravid has confirmed that he'll be fronting up to the media prior to his hundreth test, the 3rd of the ongoing series. But I just hope they all put this sorry chapter behind, and move on. The BCCI was right to move Kohli off the limited overs captaincy once he left T-20I captaincy, Kohli should have been smart enough to leave it at that.

KPF, you see any change for the 2nd test in the Indian lineup? Think they'll go in unchanged, though I'd have had Iyer for Rahane.
Will be interesting to see whether South Africa would bring Olivier in for Maharaj and go for an all-seam attack. Or drop Mulder for Oliver and bat Jansen at 7.

Interestingly, cricinfo speculates that both Rahane and Pujara should be safe for this test, while asking the question should Shardul Thakur be replaced with a more genuine quick. Don't think they'd go that root, particularly as every run from Rahane is to be considered a bonus these days, and Rishabh Pant and R Ashwin not quite the same forces with the bat in away conditions consistently.

For T2 the only change could be Pujara.
CI's Manjrekar and Akash Chopra have their feet not grounded in reality

In NZ ,the Bangla Tigers slowly moving towards carving a slice of history
NZ need to only half collapse in second innings

Solid team effort from Bangladesh, a real discliplined and controlled effort. It's not the easiest pitch to bat on, with plenty of low bounce, and certainly not an easy attack to bat against!

Wagner was his usual tireless self and was the pick of the bowlers until Boult, who grew steadily into the game, took over. Southee bowled the worst I've ever seen him bowl.

Two things now for Bangladesh:

1) Take the lead past 100. Should be fairly routine against a tired Kiwi side, but the third new ball is just around the corner.
2) Bowl New Zealand out inside 100 overs. They do have a long tail, and there is some assistance for the bowlers, plus no Williamson, so it's certainly a realistic aim.

If Bangladesh achieve both of those goals then they win, and it'll be the best test victory in their history.

Kohli out......I think he is dropped or opted out...although it might be guised as an injury
Vihari replaces him

For SA Oliver for Mulder.....and the WK
Too Long a "tail" for SA...Ind win the toss as the team as a Rahul & Rahul captain and coach Ind today

Would India really ‘drop’ their captain. I’ve read they’ve got at least two other players more worthy of being dropped.

Bangladesh superb effort thus far. I didn’t think they had it in them!

Jeff Navarro wrote:Would India really ‘drop’ their captain. I’ve read they’ve got at least two other players more worthy of being dropped.

Bangladesh superb effort thus far. I didn’t think they had it in them!

As a batsman Kohli has been just as bad Pujara and Rahane......that he was the captain made him "undroppable"
I noted here that the frictional exchanges with BCCI / selectors, running in the background....and as a result of that he has been either asked to sit out.....OR more likely in a grumble / protest he has opted out
In the seniority / respect driven culture of India...few seniors ever get dropped,.....they develop injuries of convenience

The hyped Duan Olivier trundling in at 126 kph...looks like coming right out of Christmas/ New Year ....eat/ drink/ party and no fitness training

India following the script of T1, D1....motoring along against a non threatening bowling attack....on a non treacherous pitch
One bad day for SA....can knock them out of the test match like in T1

I know some of you fellows disapprove of a lot of Kohli's decisions but I really cannot believe India would leave him out of the team without a very good reason. Either he is actually carrying an injury or - as you KP_fan are speculating - there has been a serious breakdown with BCCI ...

I hope for India's sake it is the former ; because even if he hasn't had fantastic recent form I reckon he is still needed in the team. Isolated couple of games - fine , you can cover him. But missing as regular thing : I suspect you might be singing along with Joni Mitchell "...don't know what you've got 'til it's gone..."

Bangladesh

Way to go yet though. Those Kiwi's don't roll over easy.

Jansen bending his back...hitting good speeds that you expect from SA pacers and getting the ball to climb off a length...and showing that there is considerable bounce in the pitch.

It's a different ball game since Jansen started bowling

alfie wrote:I know some of you fellows disapprove of a lot of Kohli's decisions but I really cannot believe India would leave him out of the team without a very good reason.  Either he is actually carrying an injury or - as you KP_fan are speculating - there has been a serious breakdown with BCCI ...

I hope for India's sake it is the former ; because even if he hasn't had fantastic recent form I reckon he is still needed in the team. Isolated couple of games  - fine , you can cover him. But missing as regular thing : I suspect you might be singing along with Joni Mitchell "...don't know what you've got 'til it's gone..."

Things are not linear, straightforward and Black& White with how Indian star players and BCCI conduct themselves

Conspiracies and actions based on emotions are for real
It's too coincidental for Kohli to be out for fitness, out of the blue ....right after the Chetan Sharma statements
Kohli has done well to get India to this point as a test match force....BUT he ain't moving forward...his arrogance, whims, favoritism  & arbitrariness  in selections is stopping us from getting to the next level on one hand
and on the other hand his batting has collapsed

He will be remembered as a great Indian test match captain and a very good batsman...bit ain't gonna be missed

Olivier reminds me of Andrew Hall...similar low / side arm fastish action delivering skiddy bowling ......Eng's Craig white was also similar ( but faster)

Hall was a bowling allrounder though

Well we will doubtless see going forward. I do not have a crystal ball.

I am a great admirer of the current talent in and around the Indian team. But it seems there is a bit of support around for the notion that you can replace Pujara ,Rahane - and now apparently Kohli - and just sail on : I am not so sure. Obviously none of them can go on forever ; but losing all three more or less together might hurt more than you expect. Not every bright young talent goes on to become a reliable runmaker for years just because they look good on debut. Ask England who still haven't replaced Strauss Cook Trott Bell Pietersen...

And amusingly we are about to get an idea of how India might fare with no help from the "old" three , as Rahane follows Pujara back to the shed at 49/3

Olivier getting ball to suddenly start to climb off a length....his speed is still less than 130kph...bowling fastish Off-Cutters
Rahane & Pujara probably worked themselves out of the 11 for next game...unless they crack a 100 in 2nd inning

In their good tests when they get in they get 20s and 40s and on their bad days in single digits
Pitch has bounce and its hard to say what's a good score.....but I feel 300 cannot be a bad score

I had the Kiwi game on all day and must say it was quite slow and testing to watch. Don't want to take anything away from Bangladesh - all of them batted with great patience and application (apart from Mushfiqur) and thoroughly deserve to be in the position they're currently in.

However, if any pitch can be described as a road - this is it. Pretty much a slow, low sub-continental road that is. I know it's hot there but it's a very poor pitch. Having said that; we'll now probably see 24 wickets fall in the next 2 days. (I doubt it) We'll need a sporting declaration from Bangladesh if we are to experience any result. Would be great if they did that and put even more pressure on this lack-lustre NZ outfit.

Apart from Wagner's early spell yesterday, all the Kiwi bowlers seemed to lack energy throughout most of the day. It was very, very difficult to watch.

I still think they should have definitely gone for a review yesterday (it was hitting and on line) when Wagner was on a proper aggressive roll and practically jumping out of his own skin. It would (should) have then been 44/2... and a very different situation. Instead, Bangladesh lost their 2nd wicket at 147! It was very poor and weak captaincy from Latham. NZ have that annoying tendency to be a little too tentative... almost as if they are afraid to take a punt, for fear of insulting the opposition; although Wagner himself changed tune immediately after his appeal and then seemed to be suddenly asking the question, which Latham obviously took as not being confident enough. They have surely paid the price; toiling for the next 135 overs and there's still 4 wickets to get.

You know things are extremely tough for NZ when the conversation turns to funny hats, there are too many crowd shots of people in fancy dress and the loudest noise is coming from the seagulls (who seemed to dominate both on and off the field). Then Mark Richardson spends half an hour complaining about the position of the rope after it got (accidentally) moved by a fielder. His solution of painting a line around the boundary is a very good one of course    ...but boy oh boy did he go on and on about it! A bit like this post...!!!

So they really lost the plot (just like the Kiwi bowlers) until late in the day when Bangladesh had taken the lead and they seemed to find some voice again. They had a good go at Southee (sure he struggled on that pitch) and Ravindra (also found things difficult); but you really know it's going to be a long and painful day of commentary when they start talking about the bowling selections for Christchurch - halfway through day 3 of the preceding test.

Even my Mum, who is a Kiwi, got so fed up listening to all the boring, negative talk she had to leave the room and read more of the book. She doesn't mind Katie Martin and Leslie Murdoch though. They were the only ones who didn't waffle on too much and actually tried to talk some sense and make some half decent commentary on a very difficult game to call... if you're a Kiwi.  

alfie wrote:Well we will doubtless see going forward. I do not have a crystal ball.

I am a great admirer of the current talent in and around the Indian team. But it seems there is a bit of support around for the notion that you can replace Pujara ,Rahane - and now apparently Kohli - and just sail on : I am not so sure. Obviously none of them can go on forever  ; but losing all three more or less together might hurt more than you expect. Not every bright young talent goes on to become a reliable runmaker for years just because they look good on debut. Ask England who still haven't replaced Strauss Cook Trott Bell Pietersen...

Kohli, Rahane and Puajara won't be missed as batsmen......replacable with Rohit, Iyer, Priyank , Gill , Jadeja all out of this 11
Rohit will captain or Rahul will or Jadeja might......and with Ashwin the other senior and Dravid as coach....team will roll along

We've gotta move on......

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:Well we will doubtless see going forward. I do not have a crystal ball.

I am a great admirer of the current talent in and around the Indian team. But it seems there is a bit of support around for the notion that you can replace Pujara ,Rahane - and now apparently Kohli - and just sail on : I am not so sure. Obviously none of them can go on forever  ; but losing all three more or less together might hurt more than you expect. Not every bright young talent goes on to become a reliable runmaker for years just because they look good on debut. Ask England who still haven't replaced Strauss Cook Trott Bell Pietersen...

Kohli, Rahane and Puajara won't be missed as batsmen......replacable with Rohit, Iyer, Priyank , Gill , Jadeja all out of this 11
Rohit will captain or Rahul will or Jadeja might......and with Ashwin the other senior and Dravid as coach....team will roll along

We've gotta move on......

I don't think replacing test quality batsmen is that simple. Rohit is superb in India but the fact remains he's had one decent series outside of the subcontinent, Jadeja is no better than a 7/8 and the others untested at this level, good first class numbers don't mean you'll succeed.

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:I know some of you fellows disapprove of a lot of Kohli's decisions but I really cannot believe India would leave him out of the team without a very good reason.  Either he is actually carrying an injury or - as you KP_fan are speculating - there has been a serious breakdown with BCCI ...

I hope for India's sake it is the former ; because even if he hasn't had fantastic recent form I reckon he is still needed in the team. Isolated couple of games  - fine , you can cover him. But missing as regular thing : I suspect you might be singing along with Joni Mitchell "...don't know what you've got 'til it's gone..."

Things are not linear, straightforward and Black& White with how Indian star players and BCCI conduct themselves

Conspiracies and actions based on emotions are for real
It's too coincidental for Kohli to be out for fitness, out of the blue ....right after the Chetan Sharma statements
Kohli has done well to get India to this point as a test match force....BUT he ain't moving forward...his arrogance, whims, favoritism  & arbitrariness  in selections is stopping us from getting to the next level on one hand
and on the other hand his batting has collapsed

He will be remembered as a great Indian test match captain and a very good batsman...bit ain't gonna be missed

KPF is a bit pissed with Kohli of late, even I am for the decisions that he isn't taking. He dropped both Rahane and Pujara when they shouldn't have been, he's not dropping them when he should very well have. But Kohli is neither dropped nor opted out, he's just injured.

Regardless of the outcome here, its most certainly time for Rahane, and even Pujara to be moved along now. Should be on absolute last-chance-saloon in the 2nd innings, and a decent 30 or 40 or even 50 won't, shouldn't do.

Soul Requiem wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:Well we will doubtless see going forward. I do not have a crystal ball.

I am a great admirer of the current talent in and around the Indian team. But it seems there is a bit of support around for the notion that you can replace Pujara ,Rahane - and now apparently Kohli - and just sail on : I am not so sure. Obviously none of them can go on forever  ; but losing all three more or less together might hurt more than you expect. Not every bright young talent goes on to become a reliable runmaker for years just because they look good on debut. Ask England who still haven't replaced Strauss Cook Trott Bell Pietersen...

Kohli, Rahane and Puajara won't be missed as batsmen......replacable with Rohit, Iyer, Priyank , Gill , Jadeja all out of this 11
Rohit will captain or Rahul will or Jadeja might......and with Ashwin the other senior and Dravid as coach....team will roll along

We've gotta move on......

I don't think replacing test quality batsmen is that simple. Rohit is superb in India but the fact remains he's had one decent series outside of the subcontinent, Jadeja is no better than a 7/8 and the others untested at this level, good first class numbers don't mean you'll succeed.

Indian cricket is at a point where it can replace the severely declined and averaging 20 something Kohli, Rahane & Pujara tomm
Indian cricket will be stronger without these 3 .....and I think two of them will be gone for good next game

Big chance for Vihari, if he gets a score, it will be utterly untenable for Rahane and Pujara to get away with it any longer. I'd have played Shreyas here when Kohli was ruled out, but the management thought Vihari deserves first go as he was the first reserve middle order bat with the test squad for long. Fair enough, so long as he can get a big one here. Iyer is a player with that Ex Factor about him, he strikes close to 80 in FC cricket and averages 50 after playing several seasons of domestic cricket. And despite KPF's reservations, I think Kohli has another 3 or 4 years of strong test cricket in him. Unlike Rahane, Kohli seems just around that proverbial corner...

As I was suggesting earlier, South Africa going in with Jansen as the all-rounder. He's more of a bowler who can bat at this stage of his career, but his batting basics seems sound enough for him to evolve. With Maharaj and KG in the lineup, think South Africa should give young Jansen a good solid run. Unless he becomes atrocious, give him the 14 tests this year, if he stays fit... And when the injured Anrich Nortje returns, South Africa's pace unit should be back to their glorious past best in quality. Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi, Olivier, Jansen and Mulder, along with Maharaj, arguably their best test spinner since readmission. Then there is Sipamla, and Shamsi to back things up. If only they can unearth some decent test quality batters...

South Africa making India earn each run out there. The pitch is a good sporting one, demanding but by no means impossible. And good, challenging, disciplined bowling. I know KG and Olivier bowled long spells in the morning, but I'd have had one of them with a short spell at the beginning of the session, though Ngidi and Jansen aren't doing anything wrong...