SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

First topic message reminder :

mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

lostinwales wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:Hill is a decent second row and will be a blow to the Wales set-up considering the lack of proven talent available (think it leaves AWJ, Rowlands and Beard as the last men standing).

Are there any rumours on where exactly he is looking to go? Likely to be on decent money to justify leaving 15-25 caps on the table.

Gloucester are not far away and are losing 2 2nd rows (Atkins, Garvey). I have no idea if they have replacements lined up.

They've got two Scottish options, Slater and Alemmano on the books but I wouldn't be surprised if they signed another lock. Not sure if they'd go another international though, would depend on how much Hill was wanting.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Cory Hill to...... somewhere overseas.

Surprised by that with Ball moving on. Will be interested to see where he ends up. There's a few Prem clubs that he'd slot into the engine room of well.

Hill got a lot of flack with the Lions stuff in 2017 but he's still a very good second row. Sometimes players that are solid without consistently doing more than that in international rugby then get viewed as nothing more than solid in club rugby as well. Almost like it's contagious. To be solid in international rugby you need to be a very good club player though.

Sort of similar to Charlie Ewels. He was getting some flack on a Tigers board the other day due to being in the England squad and reading it I spent the entire time thinking, "he'd walk into the Tigers boiler room these days".

Ewels is one of those locks that improve those around him without really doing anything of particular note so it's fairly easy to question his selection until you notice what is suddenly lacking when he's not in the side. Louis Deacon was similar. Ewels has had a tendency to tackle upright this season and was lucky to get away with a couple of yellows that could have been red. I'm not his biggest fan but as you say Tigers options aren't what they were though that could change hopefully with the emerging talent.

I thought Hill had a good 6N though he did seem to come in and out the team maybe suggesting that Pivac wasn't sold on him. He's at the age now where if he goes abroad he could put himself in a position to earn more than he could in Wales. Particularly if Pivac isn't a fan and won't give him the continued starting selection. The immediate dropping suggests that his relationship with Pivac and the Wales set up might not have been great anyway.

If he wants to come to the East Midlands he'd be welcome at Tigers. He's got some mobility and he can disrupt the breakdown well for a big bloke. As KC says we could do with a little proven quality in the row.

There’s a bit more to this story behind the scenes I think. He apparently told the Blues that he was looking abroad (he’s only just a short way into a long term contract). The Blues told Wales and Pivac has dropped him from the summer touring squad and sent him home! Matthew Screech has been called up instead. It’s being reported that because the Welsh regional players had to take a 25% pay cut due to the pandemic, their contacts are essentially null and void. So he’s able to walk after only a year or so into his Blues contract. Risca posted on the Wales international thread a link to a news report criticising the WRU for spending the £50m CVC monies on capital projects (new hotel, etc) while at the same time not being able to afford to give the regions their usual allocation of funds (funds they earn from competition and tv, player release, etc) and also arranging them a long term loan (payments start from next month) to cover the shortfall. Other nations seem to be getting money for sport direct from central government, but in Wales we saddle the regions with the debt for 20 years! So I wonder whether this is a bit of a protest move against the wru. Just a player fed up with the lack of wru support for the pro game. I’m sure something will come out in the press in the next few days.

It's probably more to do with him having a big end of career pay day on the cards. It's probably his last big pay day as a lot of clubs are moving away from signing old players on big pay days. There is the odd exception but Hill's not exactly a world beater and his value right now is as high as will ever be.

Nothing wrong with that as the guy has to be looking at setting himself up after rugby. In terms of Wales i think he was always going to end up on the fringes of selection so without being able to have the international match fees in the bank, he was looking for assurances on his final salary package. Wales I think will cope without him as we have some really good lock prospects atm.

Its the Blues who will be shafted. WRU have been paying 80% of his salary. So if the replacement isn't selected from the Blues then they will only have 20% of his salary available to sign someone new. That said I think they are already well stocked at Lock and they have some back rows who can cover there.

Welsh Mushroom, true. The Blues are a bit double shafted because Hill’s Wales squad replacement is from the Blues (Screech) and if he shows up well on tour then he may make it into the Welsh squad going forward and so will be away a lot, which was never really on the cards when he signed for them.

Don't ask why, but I was up watching the final of the (somewhat) Super Rugby Tasman final between Blues and Highlanders. Another mate who was up at the time (but he is in Kent) suggested the perfect player for Saints is Ash Dixon from Highlanders. A hooker who can actually hit his lineout targets (considering Saints lineout throws are like a drunk stumbling home after a long night), does so much of the grunt work, and is his team's captain, and is a real leader. The lineout throws alone could have been worth a few wins (yes, Saints were THAT bad). No idea why the exalted Chris Boyd couldn't land this guy, but I have a feeling some Premiership will see the value of adding him for a year or two.

Huw Jones confirmed as not joining Bayonne.

He was rumoured to Tigers before and I'd take him in a heartbeat.

king_carlos wrote:Huw Jones confirmed as not joining Bayonne.

He was rumoured to Tigers before and I'd take him in a heartbeat.

That would be huge. And a UK player playing in UK, too.

Surely a good team will pick Jones up, he is a bit injury prone, but such a good player on his day. He has added FB to his tool case this season as well.

I have seen Bath mentioned if Joseph does go to Toulon.

Jones will get a decent contract somewhere. Quality player even if his Scotland career hasn't quite bloomed as most of us expected.

I was happy to see him used at fullback as I often thought he had the skill set to be very good in the back three, though I expected it to be wing rather than fullback. His defence at 13 (arguably the toughest position defensively these days) isn't at the standard of the likes of Harris and Henshaw but carrying from close to the line he is a lethal finisher. Get Jones the ball 10 metres out, one on one, the combination of acceleration and power means he can often beat the first man. Seemed to me that playing him on the wing could've been a good way to get him back into form when he was struggling.

I'd take Jones at Tigers any day. Moroni, Scott and Kelly is already a big improvement on centre depth from recent years but they are lacking a powerful ball carrier that can break tackles and get over the gain line. Jones would be an ideal addition in that regard.

It seems Cory Hill will be with a club in Japan, they haven’t said which. It’s a lucrative contract if the reports are to be believe. With his style of play I think he’ll do well over there.

Falcons have signed 22 year old Ulster "back 5 forward" Matthew Dalton from Ulster....

6'6 115kg...big lad.

https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/Matthew-Dalton-signs-for-Newcastle-Falcons

The Rugby Paper is saying that Sale are very keen on signing Callum Chick.

But he just signed a new 2 year extension...so they can keep their hands off.

The same rugby paper that reported Ford was off this summer, that Ford was under contract for next season and that Ford was considering a new two year extension?

Yeah can't see them making up rumours to fill column inches.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Falcons have signed 22 year old Ulster "back 5 forward" Matthew Dalton from Ulster....

6'6 115kg...big lad.

https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/Matthew-Dalton-signs-for-Newcastle-Falcons

Looked very raw and gangly at Ulster but good luck to him.
9 caps, not 10, as it says on Wiki.
211 minutes in total - only 2 starts

Gangly at 18 stone. He could be a very big boy if he fills out. Easily done up in Newcastle as well.

Alex Cuthbert to Ospreys from Exeter.

geoff999rugby wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Falcons have signed 22 year old Ulster "back 5 forward" Matthew Dalton from Ulster....

6'6 115kg...big lad.

https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/Matthew-Dalton-signs-for-Newcastle-Falcons

Looked very raw and gangly at Ulster but good luck to him.
9 caps, not 10, as it says on Wiki.
211 minutes in total - only 2 starts

Yeah quite raw and so is that Conor Kenny who we signed from Ulster aswell...the tight head prop.

Dean generally gets good results with his locks...so he should be able to turn this lad into a good player...and as Sam says...we'll bulk him up no problem.

If we can turn these two in to serious players then great news by Dean...but then you'd expect the Irish clubs to come calling again.

Falcons have got some more experienced tight five forwards, makes sense to me to take a punt on some cheaper development type players for depth with the hope they'll kick on. If they are replacing experienced journeymen that might free up some cap space as well.

Its actually refreshing to see us doing that Sam...actually signing young players and trying to turn potential into reality for a change instead of picking up old past it injury prone players.

I really hope it comes off...the two lads look like they have it physically...lets see if we can get something out of them.

Point of correction - Kenny came from Connacht not Ulster.
Also he was born in England (left when two) and is duel qualified, Dalton I assume would have to wait 5 years.
For Dalton you want him to be good but not International good, otherwise a Province will come calling.
As to those Dalton stats, I have to say I am sceptical.
The height I can believe but the weight no , unless he has put on, at least 2st in the last two years.
As we all know Rugby player stats for weight and height are notoriously exaggerated

Sorry yes...Connacht.

Well we shall see how they both develop. They have experienced quality players ahead of them..Logo Mulipola is still a class act, and we have some great locks at the moment.

So they can be introduced slowly and surely.

GeordieFalcon wrote:The Rugby Paper is saying that Sale are very keen on signing Callum Chick.

But he just signed a new 2 year extension...so they can keep their hands off.

I had a laugh at that one on Sunday.

It's one of those stories Fissler puts in when he has very little that week. Complete nothing story

My experience is the Rugby Paper site is less reliable than a friend of a friend who spoke to them in a pub.

Virtual toilet paper

To be fair, they often get some decent stuff and do break some stories in that column. Albeit it's amore crowded market these days.

The problem is that they need to publish it every week and if they have nothing they pad it with fluff like this.

Margin_Walker wrote:To be fair, they often get some decent stuff and do break some stories in that column. Albeit it's amore crowded market these days.

The problem is that they need to publish it every week and if they have nothing they pad it with fluff like this.

I think the problem is the number of stories they break are reducing because they are losing the contacts they have in the game. Tigers would be a prime example where we've gone from there being multiple people willing to talk in the camp, mainly Bateman and Manu's brother/agent to a strict leak and face the wrath of Borthwick situation. I'm sure other clubs are wanting to keep things quiet as well so the old mates and agents passing stories around isn't so prevalent as the game becomes increasingly professional.

Yeah, would agree with some of that, although most high profile transfers still leak before being announced. I get the impression that Fissler and TRP has fewer leads then they have had in the past when they were the only show in town. Hence the reference to it being a crowded market when it comes to transfer rumours. Podcasts, websites (Rugbypass etc), twitter accounts hoover up plenty of the stuff they used to get.

Fissler doesn't come across too well either.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Fissler doesn't come across too well either.

Yep, comes across as an absolute plum. A few years ago he definitely had some contacts as TRP and mainly Fissler were breaking some decent rumours but more recently he's just been throwing out guesswork. I can't remember the last significant thing they broke before it was rumoured anywhere else.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Fissler wound up some of his contacts one to many times and they stopped coming to him with rumours. Half that stuff must come from agents anyway. A case of "I'll give you this genuine info pertaining to a player now if you also print some absolute tosh in a few weeks linking one of my players to a random club with dosh to spend when I'm trying to beef up their offer".

Garvey -> Worcs. Missed that one

Ben White has signed for LI.

Margin_Walker wrote:Ben White has signed for LI.

Talented young 9 who hasn't kicked on quite as much as hoped. Moving to London makes a lot of sense for him as his other half is down there (tennis player).

Leone Nakarawa signs for Toulon!

Makes you wonder what their medical process is like?

Msybe they have got him on some sort of pay by results scheme, it seems almost inconceivable that they hsve lashed out a lsrge contract on him.

lostinwales wrote:Garvey -> Worcs.  Missed that one

Garvey's form very suddenly fell of a cliff over the last few seasons. It seemed to come from nowhere after he was a still performing really solidly for Bath in 2017/18. Perhaps miles on the clock catching up with him.

It seems an odd signing for Worcester. They've got better locks these days and I'm not sure Garvey is mobile enough for blindside anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57593421

  don't blame him.

Nakarawa to Toulon after failing Ulster medical

BigGee wrote:Leone Nakarawa signs for Toulon!

Makes you wonder what their medical process is like?

Msybe they have got him on some sort of pay by results scheme, it seems almost inconceivable that they hsve lashed out a lsrge contract on him.

I doubt the contract is that lucrative. Toulon aren't spending like they used to and have been actually struggling to hold onto players.

formerly known as Sam wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57593421

  don't blame him.

Yes agreed. Pivac said something along the lines of it being difficult for him (Pivac) to criticise when here he is on the other side of the world picking up a coaching job for big wages. So he understands the lure and it’s a short career. Sounds like it was all pretty amicable and he goes with the best wishes of everyone. A once in a lifetime chance. Must have been a fairly good salary offer as he was in the Wales 38 ‘chosen ones’ and would have expected to gain more caps with AWJ getting older and Ball returning to Oz. So Blues salary plus international monies, yet this overseas offer will ‘set him up for life’. So must be hefty.

As mentioned previously its a double whammy for the Blues though so they can’t be too happy. They only needed to pay 20% of Hill’s wages so now need to find someone new and pay 100%. Plus Hill’s Wales squad replacement has only just joined the Blues from Dragons, so potentially he will be away a lot and I’m not sure if he will be added to the 38 and have 80% of his salary covered. Unlucky Blues!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

BigGee wrote:Leone Nakarawa signs for Toulon!

Makes you wonder what their medical process is like?

Msybe they have got him on some sort of pay by results scheme, it seems almost inconceivable that they hsve lashed out a lsrge contract on him.

I doubt the contract is that lucrative. Toulon aren't spending like they used to and have been actually struggling to hold onto players.

I agree - the contract offered at Ulster was nothing special in monetary terms

Rhys Webb to Bayonne is being reported although source hasn't been supplied by the news outlet. They tend to be on the money though.

At this stage its probably a win win all round. He wasn't going to break back into the Wales squad at his age now anyway. The young Ospreys scrum halves all look pretty good as well and Booth looks to be promoting youth there. A direction they should have taken after the Galactico era.

From Webb's perspective i would imagine it's just a final big pay day to top his retirement up. That said I didn't think he enjoyed living in France for family reasons so bit surprising he's chosen to go there again.

As I said I couldn't find any hard evidence for this so might be pure speculation.

I think Webb should still be in the Wales squad, I wouldn’t necessarily have him as first choice but he is still good enough. He is a big player for Ospreys so that’s a loss. Perhaps there’s a 9 from Scarlets that can move across as I don’t see the point of Davies, Hardy and Blacker at the same team (a bit like Ospreys with their 3 LH’s).

Webb is ok now but Pivac is building to the next world cup. I doubt he will be at that level by then. So Pivac would be better looking at options that will be available for the next world cup.

I'm not sure Ospreys need any of the Scarlets scrum halves. Morgan-Williams and Aubrey have looked pretty good this season. Also they have Harri Morgan as well. To be honest Webb going could speed up all 3 players development.

Morgan-Williams has been good at times, but I haven’t been impressed with the others. The Scarlets three are clearly a lot better. I wouldn’t mind if one moved across to the Dragons.

Yeah there is a imbalance in the distribution of talent. I worry development will suffer even more now the new URC league will involve less games and no clashes with international matches. Would imagine this will limit youngsters game time without a doubt.

Blacker is a good example of this as with Davies & Hardy top 2 choices he simply will get not a lot of matches unless he really is playing out of his skin in training.

Granted scrum half is a tough position to come through anyway given the massive amount of talent we have in Wales in this position. But as you say maybe the Dragons wouldn't have needed to sign a Argentinian international to play backup or first string and Blacker would have been able to test himself more regularly.

One of the main issues when you give regions their own budget. No control on player movement which in turn stunts regional rugby as some regions horde players without actually giving them a shot at coming through the system.

Huw Jones looks like he's on his way to Harlequins after his cancelled move to Bayonne.

Reported 1 year deal with an optional extra one.

Welshmushroom wrote:Huw Jones looks like he's on his way to Harlequins after his cancelled move to Bayonne.

Reported 1 year deal with an optional extra one.

That would be a cracking signing for them. Excellent cover at 12/13/15 and would suit their game plan.

Nizaam Carr returning to Wasps. Great news.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Huw Jones looks like he's on his way to Harlequins after his cancelled move to Bayonne.

Reported 1 year deal with an optional extra one.

That would be a cracking signing for them. Excellent cover at 12/13/15 and would suit their game plan.

Yes, surely Quins are the blueprint team for Shuggy, if they give him some space, he will score them a lot of tries.

BigGee wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Huw Jones looks like he's on his way to Harlequins after his cancelled move to Bayonne.

Reported 1 year deal with an optional extra one.

That would be a cracking signing for them. Excellent cover at 12/13/15 and would suit their game plan.

Yes, surely Quins are the blueprint team for Shuggy, if they give him some space, he will score them a lot of tries.

HJ also covers wing, not that Quins needs help there.

If HJ at 15 and Marchant at 13 click, it could be a long day for several teams.

I would have previously suggested they spend the cash on the back 5 but it seems they don't need to.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I would have previously suggested they spend the cash on the back 5 but it seems they don't need to.

Squad depth at prop and lock wouldn't be a bad idea but otherwise they seem in a pretty good place to be fair. Tommaso Allen in as back up for Marcus Smith gives them some nice security.