SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

Next season is going to be fascinating. Some great teams in the prem now...and even the bottom teams like us are looking much stronger, and have shown we can play some great rugby when we put our minds to it.

Saracens back aswell...

Vaea Fifita, Tongan-born 11 cap New Zealander, moves to Wasps. A 6'5 lock/flanker hybrid.

Guess with Launchbury out for a while and Rowlands gone Wasps need to rebuild its lock stocks.

He fell out of favour just before the world cup and missed out then. At 29 makes sense for him to head to Europe and put some cash into the bank. Wasps badly needed some quality at lock with Rowlands gone and Launchbury injured. This signing makes sense and won't disappear during international periods. Doubt he'll be cheap but shouldn't be too expensive either.

Thats a good signing to replace Rowlands.

They have Elliott Stooke as well.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I would have previously suggested they spend the cash on the back 5 but it seems they don't need to.

Squad depth at prop and lock wouldn't be a bad idea but otherwise they seem in a pretty good place to be fair. Tommaso Allen in as back up for Marcus Smith gives them some nice security.

Quins are ok at prop, I think. TH we have Louw, Collier (finally back to full fitness) and Kerrod (who most fans were happy to have as a starter). LH is Marler, Botta and Jordan Els. Botta has been a bit meh compared to Marler (but then again, right now, I think anyone would be), and Els has been injured but was one of the best props in the Championship when we hired him.

Lock, we have an established lead trio of Lewies, Symons and Lamb (who adds decent grunt but for a shorter guy has a really good knack at disrupting the opposition lineout), plus then Tizard and Hammond coming through. Tizard has looked at home whenever he's been on, and Hammond is supposed to have more potential than any of them. There is a persistent rumour that we're signing Christian Scotland-Williamson back from NFL, though.

Where I worry right now is at 12. Tapuai - who was excellent towards the end of the season - has moved on. Lasike is injured until the New Year. Esterhuizen is excellent and just what we need... but we have no established backup. Northmore has played there but not much at senior level. The next generation hasn't had a chance yet - but then given what we have seen of Quins academy lads breaking into the first team this season, maybe we have one ready to go...

Next season is going to be super-competitive. There are 7 or 8 teams jockeying for Top 4, and the new lower salary cap will make teams more reliant on their academies and cheaper squad players. The ability to get First XV performances out of A team players is likely to be the differentiator - as is having a good roster of not-quite-international players who won't be away during the 6N. From my perspective: are Evans, Chisholm, Allan and Northmore able to sub effectively for Kenningham, Dombrandt, Smith and Marchant? We shall see.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Vaea Fifita, Tongan-born 11 cap New Zealander, moves to Wasps. A 6'5 lock/flanker hybrid.

Guess with Launchbury out for a while and Rowlands gone Wasps need to rebuild its lock stocks.

He looked top quality when he broke into the NZ side, could be great to watch in the same pack as some of Wasps power carriers

The Webb transfer to Bayonne looks like it also has been removed by the site that reported this.

Think that would mean that Webb must be staying at the Ospreys after all.

Bulls look like they are recruiting more. Mapoe & Combrinck heading back to South Africa.

Will add former international experience into that squad. Think Jake knows he needs to bring in some experience if they are going to have any credible chance of mounting a challenge in the URC next season.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I would have previously suggested they spend the cash on the back 5 but it seems they don't need to.

Squad depth at prop and lock wouldn't be a bad idea but otherwise they seem in a pretty good place to be fair. Tommaso Allen in as back up for Marcus Smith gives them some nice security.

Quins are ok at prop, I think. TH we have Louw, Collier (finally back to full fitness) and Kerrod (who most fans were happy to have as a starter). LH is Marler, Botta and Jordan Els. Botta has been a bit meh compared to Marler (but then again, right now, I think anyone would be), and Els has been injured but was one of the best props in the Championship when we hired him.

Lock, we have an established lead trio of Lewies, Symons and Lamb (who adds decent grunt but for a shorter guy has a really good knack at disrupting the opposition lineout), plus then Tizard and Hammond coming through. Tizard has looked at home whenever he's been on, and Hammond is supposed to have more potential than any of them. There is a persistent rumour that we're signing Christian Scotland-Williamson back from NFL, though.

I think loosehead you definitely need someone new of you can Botta has looked pretty poor and you can tell with the way Marler player throughout the two biggest games of the season that the coaching staff know he's not close to Marler. You can't play one prop all season for every minute and hope to get away with it. I'm a Tigers fan I've seen us try. Els might come good but it can be hit and miss from the Championship. Tighthead Collier and Kerrod are both decent squad level players so there's not the same level of liability. If Marler were to get injured the Quins scrum would go from strength to weakness.

Again it would just be if you lost one of Symonds or Lewis to a lengthy injury then you'd maybe look a bit short on quality. Or at least on experienced quality. A punt on CSW back from the NFL could be a goodove in regards to covering that.

12 might be less of a concern should the Huw Jones rumour be confirmed. He's a high quality centre, not like for like replacement but a good player to bring in offer something to that backline.

Huw Jones is terrific on his day, but it will be interesting to see how he fits in given they have Marchant who fills a very similar role.

lostinwales wrote:Huw Jones is terrific on his day, but it will be interesting to see how he fits in given they have Marchant who fills a very similar role.

Yeah, on his day he can beat anyone.

Scott Williams moving back to the Scarlets after being released by the Ospreys.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think loosehead you definitely need someone new of you can Botta has looked pretty poor and you can tell with the way Marler player throughout the two biggest games of the season that the coaching staff know he's not close to Marler. You can't play one prop all season for every minute and hope to get away with it. I'm a Tigers fan I've seen us try. Els might come good but it can be hit and miss from the Championship. Tighthead Collier and Kerrod are both decent squad level players so there's not the same level of liability. If Marler were to get injured the Quins scrum would go from strength to weakness.

Again it would just be if you lost one of Symonds or Lewis to a lengthy injury then you'd maybe look a bit short on quality. Or at least on experienced quality. A punt on CSW back from the NFL could be a goodove in regards to covering that.

12 might be less of a concern should the Huw Jones rumour be confirmed. He's a high quality centre, not like for like replacement but a good player to bring in offer something to that backline.

Els is a bit of an unknown quantity - but given what they've achieved with Kerrod I have some confidence. I also want to see whether Botta is better after a full preseason to work on his integration with the scrum; he's a good player but clearly hasn't settled yet - but equally we know it can take a season to adapt to a new scrummaging setup. Our prop recruitment has been good recently - Louw was instantly effective and Kerrod made the step up so well that he was the clear #1 for a bit. So I have some confidence that they can get Els and Botta working well.

CSW could be a good option at lock - but again, I am confident in Tizard and Hammond. Tizard reminds me a bit of when I first saw Kruis - not remotely flashy but consistently competent at all the basics.

I am hoping Jones can cover 12, but lots of comments seem to see him as a 13 or 15 rather than 12. We've got loads of 13s and 15s. We've only got one fit 12 now.

I think next year will see a lot more reliance on academy products by teams, and squad management will need to be more careful. The switch to impact tracking mouthguards seems to have made a massive difference for Quins in terms of having a good pool of fit players available, but I expect next season to see a bit more squad rotation from everyone as they try to give squad players the experience they will need for later in the season.

Oakdene wrote:Scott Williams moving back to the Scarlets after being released by the Ospreys.

Could be a good signing for them. Probably got him for a lot less then what he was on. Surprised they are still splashing out on backs though. Would have though getting a couple of experienced locks in to strengthen their pack would have been better. I know they are still in the market for one lock though so I'm guessing they will possibly use one of the backrows in the second row.

They look a little light up front to me though.

Wales U20 lock Dafydd Jenkins has signed for Exeter, they like their young Welsh player there dont they ?

I don't know why he didn't want to stay with Ospreys.

LordDowlais wrote:Wales U20 lock Dafydd Jenkins has signed for Exeter, they like their young Welsh player there dont they ?

I don't know why he didn't want to stay with Ospreys.

According to Wiki they currently have 2 Welsh players in a squad of 51 for next season. Your guy there will make it 3 in 52. Doesn't look like they have a particular thing for Welsh players. (Other 2 are Corey Baldwin and Dan John)

lostinwales wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Wales U20 lock Dafydd Jenkins has signed for Exeter, they like their young Welsh player there dont they ?

I don't know why he didn't want to stay with Ospreys.

According to Wiki they currently have 2 Welsh players in a squad of 51 for next season. Your guy there will make it 3 in 52. Doesn't look like they have a particular thing for Welsh players. (Other 2 are Corey Baldwin and Dan John)

Check their U20's. We have about 4 Exeter players in our U20's squad:-

Ollie Burrows
Christ Tshiunza
Daniel John
Dafydd Jenkins

Rory Sutherland signs for Worcester, bought out of the last year of his contract.

He has had some major injury issues and it is hard to begrudge him the money he will be earning but it is a tough one for Edinburgh to take.

Wuss are building a half-decent first XV for next season:

1. Sutherland/E Waller
2. Baldwin
3. Judge
4. Garvey
5. G Kitchener
6. Hill
7. Kvesic
8. Vailanu
9. Chudley/Heinz
10. O Williams/Searle
11. Van Der Merwe
12. Lawrence
13. Venter
14. Ashton/Shillcock
15. Nanai

Fluxy wrote:Wuss are building a half-decent first XV for next season:

1. Sutherland/E Waller
2. Baldwin
3. Judge
4. Garvey
5. G Kitchener
6. Hill
7. Kvesic
8. Vailanu
9. Chudley/Heinz
10. O Williams/Searle
11. Van Der Merwe
12. Lawrence
13. Venter
14. Ashton/Shillcock
15. Nanai

I'd argue you're doing some of Worcester's better players, particularly younger ones, a disservice there as well Fluxy.

I'd definitely take Clegg, Batley and Kitchener jnr way before Garvey these days. I'd argue that Clegg is their best second row and an underrated player in fact. If Bresler can get fully fit I'd probably start him with Clegg and have Batley or Kitchener jnr on the bench.

Finn Smith could very well take over Williams and Searle on merit this coming season. If so Williams could be a useful 12 option for them partnering Venter or Lawrence.

Give me Perry Humphreys or Tom Howe over Ashton these days. Harri Doel and Noah Howard look talented too.

Baldwin is a really good signing for Wuss. I rate Niall Annett as a really solid Premiership hooker but Worcester have missed the oomph that Singleton and Taufete'e gave at hooker.

Hougaard, Schonert and Nick David are significant losses though.

Finn Smith has a lot of potential with Heinz at 9 and Williams at 12 you'd have experienced quality around him to give him the opportunity to flourish. Venter or Lawrence at 13 for physical carrying and Williams isn't small either. That could work well.

Ed Robinson son of Andy to leave Jersey this summer and join an as yet unnamed Prem club. Having stepped in as England skills coach during the 6N he'll be working with backs and attack this summer under Eddie.

Now which Prem club needs an attack coach?

Welshmushroom wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Scott Williams moving back to the Scarlets after being released by the Ospreys.

Could be a good signing for them.  Probably got him for a lot less then what he was on.  Surprised they are still splashing out on backs though.  Would have though getting a couple of experienced locks in to strengthen their pack would have been better.  I know they are still in the market for one lock though so I'm guessing they will possibly use one of the backrows in the second row.  

They look a little light up front to me though.

I think it's a low risk signing as the contract would be tied to his playing etc so should be ok. I'm sure we are in the market for a lock which will hopefully be announced soon, a nice NWQ one will do.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ed Robinson son of Andy to leave Jersey this summer and join an as yet unnamed Prem club. Having stepped in as England skills coach during the 6N he'll be working with backs and attack this summer under Eddie.

Now which Prem club needs an attack coach?

I thought it was announced a while back he was off to Wasps? https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/338697/robinson-lands-the-job-as-wasps-new-attack-coach/

king_carlos wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Wuss are building a half-decent first XV for next season:

1. Sutherland/E Waller
2. Baldwin
3. Judge
4. Garvey
5. G Kitchener
6. Hill
7. Kvesic
8. Vailanu
9. Chudley/Heinz
10. O Williams/Searle
11. Van Der Merwe
12. Lawrence
13. Venter
14. Ashton/Shillcock
15. Nanai

I'd argue you're doing some of Worcester's better players, particularly younger ones, a disservice there as well Fluxy.

I'd definitely take Clegg, Batley and Kitchener jnr way before Garvey these days. I'd argue that Clegg is their best second row and an underrated player in fact. If Bresler can get fully fit I'd probably start him with Clegg and have Batley or Kitchener jnr on the bench.

Finn Smith could very well take over Williams and Searle on merit this coming season. If so Williams could be a useful 12 option for them partnering Venter or Lawrence.

Give me Perry Humphreys or Tom Howe over Ashton these days. Harri Doel and Noah Howard look talented too.

Baldwin is a really good signing for Wuss. I rate Niall Annett as a really solid Premiership hooker but Worcester have missed the oomph that Singleton and Taufete'e gave at hooker.

Hougaard, Schonert and Nick David are significant losses though.

I probably was selling a few short, especially in the individuals you highlighted, like Clegg and Smith. I rated Annett, but Baldwin has been decent for Quins, so would seem to be a slight upgrade.

It's good to see that the bottom-placed club is working on improving their overall standard of player, or bringing through an academy player.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ed Robinson son of Andy to leave Jersey this summer and join an as yet unnamed Prem club. Having stepped in as England skills coach during the 6N he'll be working with backs and attack this summer under Eddie.

Now which Prem club needs an attack coach?

I thought it was announced a while back he was off to Wasps? https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/338697/robinson-lands-the-job-as-wasps-new-attack-coach/

Yes I've seen the updated rumours now. Gleeson from Wasps rumoured to England for the Autumn. Nothing like being behind the times.

Nathan Earle confirmed to us.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nathan Earle confirmed to us.

He's a decent player if you can keep him fit, but he was unlucky at Quins to pick up two bad injuries that left space for Lynagh and Green to come through.

Yeah if he can find form then fine, but we have 2/3 of our own talented academy that need the gametime aswell...

We shall see how it all goes.

Matson confirmed to be Quins new boss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57694175

propdavid_london wrote:Matson confirmed to be Quins new boss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57694175

The worst kept secret in World Rugby.

It will be interesting to see how he fits in - but from the interview he's given he certainly seems to get what's required, has done his homework and shows a lot of enthusiasm. It sounds like his role is as much to secure the culture and develop the existing coaching group while looking for "what next" in terms of marginal gains. It's great to be appointing a coach to come in and improve a setup that is already working, and I'm hoping his experience with the Baby Blacks will translate very well to working with our multicoloured infants.

Agree Poorfour - comes across quite well in his interview.
Maybe he has spotted some decent NZ U20s talent he wants to bring with him too
Preferable an EQP too...

As long rumoured, Quins have signed Huw Jones.

Quins - Huw Jones

Decent signing, but I still worry that we have a lot of 13s and utility backs, but only one fit 12 until Lasike is back.

Jack walker also off to Harlequins.

Christian Scotland-Williamson is also reportedly in the works, but I think once he's confirmed our other new signings will be academy promotions. Still, it's looking like a good Quins squad for next season with all but Baldwin of the starting XV from the final sticking around, and some key players to come back from injury during the season.

I see hes confirmed now Poorfour. Big old unit him mind!

GeordieFalcon wrote:I see hes confirmed now Poorfour. Big old unit him mind!

If we can deconvert him from gridiron he’ll add some serious heft to the pack.

Garbisi off to Montpellier on a 2 year deal...... Not sure how he will progress there with Pollard at 10 so might see his game time limited. But he looks a talent regardless.

Massive loss for Treviso in any case. With Allan off to Harlequins as well I'm not sure who will fill the 10 spot for them. Suppose it will open up some options.

Welshmushroom wrote:Garbisi off to Montpellier on a 2 year deal......  Not sure how he will progress there with Pollard at 10 so might see his game time limited.  But he looks a talent regardless.  

Massive loss for Treviso in any case.  With Allan off to Harlequins as well I'm not sure who will fill the 10 spot for them.  Suppose it will open up some options.

Pollard will be late back because of the Lions and then is rumoured not to be renewing his contract when it expires next summer. Keeping Pollard fit is also quite difficult.

Tigers sign loosehead Dan Richardson from Jersey.

I like signing props from the Championship. Not all come off admittedly but many have and I like a player that's played their way up through the leagues.

He effectively replaces Ryan Bower in the squad who barely featured this season and to be honest I've never thought his scrummaging up to Premiership standard.

Richardson can apparently scrummage well and as you say KC has had to graft his way up. Makes sense to me as our prop stocks are quite young with three under 23 years of age. Adds a little experience cheaply and at 25 he could yet grow and improve. If he doesn't then Whitcombe will overtake him and play as third choice.

Tom Price formerly of Leicester, Scarlets and Exeter, returns to Scarlets.

mikey_dragon wrote:Tom Price formerly of Leicester, Scarlets and Exeter, returns to Scarlets.

Not a great signing. He never really kicked on at Exeter. Not great news for Scarlets fans. I think this is a major downgrade for Ball. Leaves them with Rawlins, Lousi and Price as the senior locks for them. Jones & Price will need time to develop and they can't afford to over expose those 2 too much next season.

Given all the money they have spent on backline players I really don't understand this. They have plenty of quality in the front 3 but without quality in the second row they no doubt will struggle in the set piece next season. Given the changes in URC rugby next year most teams have pretty heavy front 5 players to call on. I think this could really see them struggle upfront.

As a Dragons fan I personally think on average we probably have a better front 5 than them (although we are still waiting to see who Dean will bring in to replace Brok), which given their budget and what they have spent on backline players is silly.

Be interesting to see what Scarlet fans make of this....

Lousi and Jones as a pair are pretty good, they're no doubt first choice. Behind that it looks meh. They must be in bargain basement now if they're bringing in guys like Tom Price.

I'm not sure we if have a better front 5 than Scarlets, I just think they have way more depth. Our own lock pairing for next season looks pretty good though eh.

Scarlets LH: Rob Evans, Wyn Jones; back-up players like Mathias look pretty good and has the right physical condition.
TH: Samson Lee, WillGriff John; Javan Sebastian now potentially a Scottish international but I don't rate him that well. They probably have someone else from the academy coming in who's better.

Whilst he is a downgrade on Ball, I think we have to be realistic & remember that we aren't able to splash the cash on signing biq NWQ players who may or may not work out mid to long term. We signed Tex who most fans have probably already forgotten so it doesn't always work out well for us.

I disagree that you have a better front 5 but there we go, that's the beauty of a discussion forum.

Tex was a good player, was he not able to be kept on? You have 3 NWQ in the back-row. One was signed for this season, in the back-row of all places. I get Kalamafoni, but a Welsh team shouldn't be signing NWQ flankers.

TBF we have just lost Jac to the Ospreys & am not sure of how well Cubby will back when he returns (if indeed he does) so to have a player of international quality to help the likes of Iestyn Rees coming through will help so I understand that signing.

In terms of Tex, no he didn't settle in the area & moved to the South of France from memory. I do feel we are a bit light in the lock department but then again I don't see any of our locks, maybe with the exception of Jones, being called up for the Welsh squad so they should be available all season.

Well there's Josh McLeod too, although not sure the extent of his injury, but he was clearly in pole position and was called up to the Wales squad.

Pretty much... but pretty much every team needs international quality locks to be competitive, or failing that then a pair of South Africans.

mikey_dragon wrote:Well there's Josh McLeod too, although not sure the extent of his injury, but he was clearly in pole position and was called up to the Wales squad.

Pretty much... but pretty much every team needs international quality locks to be competitive, or failing that then a pair of South Africans.

I think Josh will come back but it's my understanding that Lezana can cover 8 as well which is not a bad thing.

I agree, however let's not forget that we beat Leinster in our title winning season with a second row pairing of Beirne & Rawlins who at the time weren't internationals. Obviously going forward Beirne has gone on to be an incredible player. It's all about getting the right player for the right price & it may just be that the player we need isn't available at present. We've been lucky with certain NWQ players such as Werner Kruger but there are always those who fail to deliver for whatever reason.