SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

Oakdene wrote:Whilst he is a downgrade on Ball, I think we have to be realistic & remember that we aren't able to splash the cash on signing biq NWQ players who may or may not work out mid to long term. We signed Tex who most fans have probably already forgotten so it doesn't always work out well for us.

I disagree that you have a better front 5 but there we go, that's the beauty of a discussion forum.

Scarlets front three are defo better than what we have at the Dragons and they have good backup players in those positions too. That said however so much of the set piece game orientates around the locks. Lineup's and scrums they play key rolls. Scarlets just look lightweight in this department. I suppose they will be mobile however so that might be a good thing if they are trying to move the ball about. Not going to help them much in the Winter months though.

I get the point on players not working out and the money being tight this season. But when you have players like Halfpenny on a reported 300K and I can't realistically see him getting into the best Scarlets 15 (McNichol, Evans & Williams I would have thought are the best back three there). It seems odd they didn't try to offload him and free up that cash for a quality second row. Its the same with some of the other positions as well.

I just thing overall next season our starting 5 will have the beating of your 5. For us Rowlands was a great bit of business. Him and Carter could really add something to the Dragons set piece. I just hope Ryan shops for some quality at loosehead and we look pretty good.

Granted to Scarlets backline is a million times better than what we have.

In terms of the second rows, yes we need an enforcer however our scrum has held its own recently & even a small pack can rumble a maul if they are set up correctly. Halfpenny will be in the magic 38 I would have thought so the majority of his wages will be funded by the WRU.

Maybe but he's an example of a player neither Wales or the Scarlets need at this stage. He won't make the next world cup so Wales would have done better to cover someones wages that will make the next world cup.

The issue around the pack size isn't so much around mauls and open play. The real problem I think they will have is a set piece time. Looking at most of the teams in the league they have all gone big in the front 5. During the winter months Scarlets will need to get parity at set piece and win lineout as these areas will be critical when the weather dictates they wont be able to chuck the ball about. Don't get me wrong though they will be dangerous come April time but by that point they may already be out of HC spot run ins if they leave themselves to much to do.

I also don't think the backrow is that impressive either. I'm just not sure your quality props can overcome the shortfall in the pack as a whole.

It's where i think Booth as got it right at the Ospreys for next season. Their front 8 look solid and he has loads of cover in the front 8. I suspect they will end up higher than the Scarlets next year.

Our back line needs direction & getting back to having players running onto the ball rather than taking it stationery. We have a back line littered with internationals but the one thing we lack is gas. We don't have someone with genuine top end pace.

The back row will grow if we can overcome injury issues, I have no doubt of that.

We have missed our first choice props for large parts of the season just gone but we held our own at scrum time, apart from the time Rob Evans had his head shoved up his arse by WP Nel after he whopped in his face the scrum before.

Do you think Peel's inexperience at top level management might be a factor for the Scarlets heading into next season?

I'm very much on the fence on that, I think he will get the squad pointing in the right direction but he needs to be given time. W, as fans, cannot start jumping up & down if things aren't going well from the off.

Tigers sign England under 20s Dan Lancaster from Leeds. Very happy with that, he can play 10 and 12 and has clearly got potential. Not the finished article but we brought Dan Kelly on from a similar position last summer to an England cap this summer hopefully we can develop this Dan as well.

Will he be a 10 or 12 for you...isnt he more a 12...same position as Kelly?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will he be a 10 or 12 for you...isnt he more a 12...same position as Kelly?

Has been playing 10 for Leeds but played 12 for England under 20s. England under 20s played with flyhalfs at 10, 12 and 15 throughout the Junior 6N. Borthwick hasn't tended to go for the secondary flyhalf at 12 so he'll have to show more centre skills if he wants to play 12.

Kelly also played 13 before Borthwick moved him more to 12 so could go back to playing 13 if required. He tended to play 12 because Scott and Moroni are better 13s than 12s.

Richard Cockerill leaving Edinburgh....anyone know where is off to?

Clermont.

Was shortlisted there in March. Their head coach is confirmed as off. Clermont have repeatedly looked to employ Cockers previously and he also had a short spell as a player coach in between stints at Tigers.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Clermont.

Was shortlisted there in March. Their head coach is confirmed as off. Clermont have repeatedly looked to employ Cockers previously and he also had a short spell as a player coach in between stints at Tigers.

Continually lose your best players at a cash strapped Edinburgh or head off for the long rumoured post trying to take a French giant back to the top of French rugby, tough choice!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Clermont.

Was shortlisted there in March. Their head coach is confirmed as off. Clermont have repeatedly looked to employ Cockers previously and he also had a short spell as a player coach in between stints at Tigers.

Sorry, is Jono Ross not going back to Clermont as head coach?

That is why ROG is now head man at la Rochelle

BigGee wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Clermont.

Was shortlisted there in March. Their head coach is confirmed as off. Clermont have repeatedly looked to employ Cockers previously and he also had a short spell as a player coach in between stints at Tigers.

Sorry, is Jono Ross not going back to Clermont as head coach?

That is why ROG is now head man at la Rochelle

You mean Jono Gibbes, but that does seem to be the case yes

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

BigGee wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Clermont.

Was shortlisted there in March. Their head coach is confirmed as off. Clermont have repeatedly looked to employ Cockers previously and he also had a short spell as a player coach in between stints at Tigers.

Sorry, is Jono Ross not going back to Clermont as head coach?

That is why ROG is now head man at la Rochelle

You mean Jono Gibbes, but that does seem to be the case yes

Yes, that's the one

So it is not Clermont

I wouldnt be too surprised if Cockers headed back to T14 though.

He could go in there as DOR over Gibbes but good point. I'd presumed Clermont because of his prior connections there, his son was born there during Cockers first stint in France.

France would generally be a viable option given Cockers speaks the language. Otherwise I'm not sure what jobs are available. I think he'd rather cut his manhood off than go to Bath which is the most precarious DOR job in the Prem. Glaws have been rumoured to want a mentor for Skivington but feels unlikely. Australia? Though he's family orientated so it would have to be a long term move for him down there.

He may just take some time out now. Pretty much all sides will have coaching teams in place for next season by now

He will be on standby for anyone who gets sacked once the season gets underway

He may be looking for another project team as well. Turning around basket cases seems to be his skill set. In a bigger team, there may just be to many major players to upset

BigGee wrote:He may just take some time out now. Pretty much all sides will have coaching teams in place for next season by now

He will be on standby for anyone who gets sacked once the season gets underway

He may be looking for another project team as well. Turning around basket cases seems to be his skill set. In a bigger team, there may just be to many major players to upset

He did well at Tigers before it became increasingly apparent he's a much better head coach than he is a DOR. The blurb from Edinburgh said he'd left to pursue other opportunities which is an odd comment if he's having some time out the game.

He'd be a great head coach under a DOR with real vision. That was what Tigers desperately lacked when Cockers was DOR he's a man that is totally focused on winning next weekend, big picture isn't for him.

The rot at Tigers started under Cockers but there were mitigating circumstances above him. Terrible recruitment that Cockers wasn't allowed to lead and he wasn't fully in charge of where money was spent on players. Then pressure to change the style of play to something that simply didn't suit his coaching. The decline started with him at the helm but it got a lot worse after he left and IMO the turnaround recently after changes at the top sums up that the issues went much higher up than the training field.

I'd love Cockers to take an international job but can't think of too many going. Georgia have been crying out for a decent head coach since Milton Haig left after the 2019 RWC.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57874642.amp

Not the time to discuss the future of Georgia head coach, hopefully the incumbent comes through ok.

I did wonder if Western Force might be an option. They have something about then but badly need an edge and have a wealthy backer.

Saints would be a dead nuts perfect fit.  Boyd is done after this coming season and a nice little buy-out would put Cockers with a club which could really benefit from his high energy and gently abrasive style.  And his attitude. Besides, frankly, who in their right mind would not want to be in the Rose of Shires?

Northampton is more like the thorn. Cockers would work well under someone like Boyd. Boyd comes across as having a master plan but maybe struggles getting the week to week right. Cockers is all about next Saturday so a combination could work. Whomever you have as forwards coach at the minute wouldn't be happy mind.

So with most clubs back in pre season yesterday is that the majority of the transfer news done...bar maybe the odd little bit.

Im pretty sure we're done.

Are you happy with your clubs work in the market?

Mesake Doge has joined the Dragons from Brieve

GeordieFalcon wrote:So with most clubs back in pre season yesterday is that the majority of the transfer news done...bar maybe the odd little bit.

Im pretty sure we're done.

Are you happy with your clubs work in the market?

Pretty happy GF. We've got all bases covered. Locks could be a bit on the young side if we have a couple of injuries but we could always love Liebenburg forward in an emergency. Only downside is that we might be missing four key players (two to SA and two to the Pumas) for the first chunk of the season and won't really see them until December. 

Top 6 will again be the target but could possibly sneak top 4 if things go our way.

Welshmushroom wrote:Mesake Doge has joined the Dragons from Brieve

That's a good singing isn't it? He was apart of the Fijian squad that put it up to the All Blacks for large periods of the two test series. Fiji fell away completely in the second half of the 2nd test match mostly due to the horrendous preparation they were afforded.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Mesake Doge has joined the Dragons from Brieve

That's a good singing isn't it? He was apart of the Fijian squad that put it up to the All Blacks for large periods of the two test series. Fiji fell away completely in the second half of the 2nd test match mostly due to the horrendous preparation they were afforded.

What's not to like about a massive PI international prop. The only issue normally is getting them match fit. Even if they aren't super fit you can normally use them as a good impact sub.

Aki Seiuli, another islander prop (from NZ) has now signed for dragons too. Any Glasgow fans care to comment?

Seiuli is a decent player, spent much of last season as first choice (due to Kebble being away) and was fairly durable initially. The team was playing like rubbish so may be harsh to say that is above his pay grade but I would rate him as a player who can do most things well and is a good 2nd/3rd option on a playoff team.

With Kebble as the starter, Bhatti as the back-up and Lambert coming up strongly, he was probably too expensive to keep as a 3rd/4th choice for us as an NSQ.

He seems to be highly rated, some Glasgow fans on social media were a bit annoyed he was let go. Probably not as good as Sutherland. Kebble is always injured but he is pretty good, and is a big bloke.

mikey_dragon wrote:He seems to be highly rated, some Glasgow fans on social media were a bit annoyed he was let go. Probably not as good as Sutherland. Kebble is always injured but he is pretty good, and is a big bloke.

Seuili is a good player and will do a decent job for you. He had a good two years at Glasgow and we would have been very happy to keep him, except it looks like we wanted to bring on our youngsters, Lambert and we are hearing rumours about Mcbeth coming back in from SA.

Jake Kerr signs a permanent deal with Bristol after impressing with them on his short term deal at the end of last season.

The move to the south west has gone well for him.

BigGee wrote:Jake Kerr signs a permanent deal with Bristol after impressing with them on his short term deal at the end of last season.

The move to the south west has gone well for him.

Thought it would. He's a good hooker and still pretty young. Suits the Bristol style of play and a full pre season there will do him the world of good.

Good to see that Kerr has got a permanent deal.

I just hope he continues to play as that's what he needs. He got early game time with Tigers (and then Scotland) during an injury crisis but when others got fit he couldn't fight back in and didn't impress in fleeting chances he got. He's now signed a permanent deal with Brizz after impressing during an injury crisis... Hopefully it's not a deja vu situation where Thacker, Capon and Byrne get fit hence Kerr struggles for game time again.

Joe Cotton's an interesting signing for Bristol too so Kerr will have competition.

Hugh Hogan from Leinster to Scarlets. He was formerly contact skills coach, but is being signed as a defence coach, and whilst I think any coach from Leinster will be good are there the same speciality?

Harry Mallinder leaves Saints to pursue a career in Japan:

Northampton Saints can today confirm that Harry Mallinder will be leaving the Club ahead of the 2021/22 season to pursue a playing opportunity in Japan.

The 25-year-old has scored 233 points in 83 appearances in Black, Green and Gold since coming through the Club’s Academy system and making his debut in 2014.

Mallinder – who has featured at fullback, fly-half and centre during his time at Franklin’s Gardens – departs Northampton in search of more regular playing time in the Top League.

“Harry is a good man and a very popular and talented member of our group, having come through the Academy here with a number of the current first-team squad,” said Saints’ Director of Rugby, Chris Boyd.

“He will certainly be missed around the Gardens, but we understand and support Harry’s decision to pursue more regular playing time after enduring an unlucky run of injuries over the last couple of years.

“I am sure many of our supporters will be disappointed to see him leave Northampton, but this is the right move for Harry at this time in his career.

“As part of the move, it has been agreed that we have the first option to bring Harry back to Saints in two years time, so we’ll certainly be keeping a close eye on his progress in Japan and wish him all the best.”

Chris Boyd, Director of Rugby

After captaining England to victory in the 2016 World Rugby Under-20s Championship, Mallinder became a regular in the first team at Franklin’s Gardens, racking up almost 50 appearances in two seasons alone and kicking Northampton into the 2017/18 Champions Cup with a crucial match-winning conversion against Stade Francais.

While an unlucky run of injuries have limited Mallinder’s appearances for Saints in recent seasons, the versatile back has also made a sizeable impact off the pitch at Franklin’s Gardens by working closely alongside the Northampton Saints Foundation.

His contribution towards the charity’s innovative programmes – which help local young people return to education, training or employment – earned him the Gallagher Premiership’s Community Player of the Season award during the 2019-20 season.

But with his focus firmly on returning to his best form on the field, Mallinder is looking forward to a fresh challenge overseas in Japan.

Mallinder said: “This wasn’t an easy decision for me, as Northampton has been my Club for the last 14 years.

“I’m leaving on great terms with everyone and I feel privileged to have played for Saints, a Club that will always be special to me. I am grateful for everyone’s support through the very good times and the more difficult ones.”

Harry Mallinder
“I would like to thank everybody associated with the Club. A special thanks to the medical and S&C departments for all their help, the coaches for their continued support and of course the top set of lads within the playing group.

“I’ve been a Saint over half my life and so this is a big change, but one I am very excited about. I am going to Japan to play fly-half, so I’m excited to test myself in a new environment. I can’t wait to get out there for the rugby and cultural challenge.

“I wish the Club and all Northampton supporters the very best for the future, and thank you all for the great support you have given me during my time here.”

Figure he needs to earn the money while he can. Potential unmet.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Figure he needs to earn the money while he can.  Potential unmet.

New life experience. A couple of years playing in a league which will hopefully be less demanding allowing him to get his body sorted out before another 3-5 years back at Saints. Not a bad plan, but yes one of the many unfulfilled talents. There is a lot of luck involved with having a decent rugby career.

Sale are doing some pretty nice prop business. McIntyre and Schonert signing.

I didn't think Wasps letting McIntyre go was a good call. It must be another slight clear out and draft for them.

mikey_dragon wrote:I didn't think Wasps letting McIntyre go was a good call. It must be another slight clear out and draft for them.

I'm not sure whether Wasps opted to release or whether they couldn't reach an agreement. Wasps front row is the major weakness in their squad, McIntyre certainly helped their scrum but he did have more than a couple of injuries. Sale have only handed out a one year deal.

McIntyre is also a Manchester lad who came through the Sale setup so may well have just wanted to return to where it all started.

He's a quality LH that I've rated for a long time and really hoped Tigers might try to sign. Rodd, Harrison and McIntyre are cracking LH options for Sale to rotate.

To be fair Sale have got some good options on the tighthead side as well with Oosthuizen, Schonert and the young talent Harper. Hooker ditto Taylor, Van Der Merwe, Langdon and Ashman. Going to be brutish set of forwards again at Sale this season.

Tigers sign Tongan/Japanese winger Hosea Saumaki. At 6ft3 and north of 16 stone (allegedly) he's a bit lad. Got a good try scoring record over in Japan. He's got some pace so interested to see what he can do. Couldn't find much on Google but found this;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rugbyworld.com/tournaments/superrugby/hosea-saumaki-causing-stir-sunwolves-90834/amp

That could be a very good signing Sam.

GeordieFalcon wrote:That could be a very good signing Sam.

Yeah it's definitely an interesting one. Big, quick and can score tries is always a potential winner. Will have to see how he adapts to NH rugby. Very happy with that as a bit of a punt signing.

The highlights I've seen make him look electric but that is the Japanese league where defence tends to be a bit optional.

Borthwick is a shrewd guy...he wont sign rubbish.

Your building a very impressive squad...power all over and mixed with some skill and your young academy lads are coming through nicely aswell..like Harry Potter, Martins, Steward, JVP etc.

The old tigers are on their way back.
You'll be a tough team to play this season.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Borthwick is a shrewd guy...he wont sign rubbish.

Your building a very impressive squad...power all over and mixed with some skill and your young academy lads are coming through nicely aswell..like Harry Potter, Martins, Steward, JVP etc.

The old tigers are on their way back.
You'll be a tough team to play this season.

The recruitment has improved out of sight, as has the coaching (Borthwick) and fitness (Aled Walters). Overall I'm feeling very optimistic indeed.

My only gripe with the squad for next season is the second rows. Lavanini gone with no replacement means Wells and Green as the only established locks being challenged by 3 talented youngsters in Martin, Henderson and Chessum who have little senior experience (especially at lock given Martin and Chessum being used at 6), plus a bit of a punt in Eli Snyman.

I was hoping for a signing such as Ruan Botha to replace Lavanini but thus far it seems Snyman is his replacement but that's just in terms of numbers rather than quality.

If Borthwick is taking the view that they can avoid spending big at lock, so invest elsewhere, by bringing on Martin, Henderson and Chessum then I'm delighted by the faith in youth but in the short term I can once again see us losing a few tight games where our locks are outclassed by more experienced opposite numbers. Chiefs (Hill and Gray), Bristol (Vui and Attwood), Sale (Lood and Jean-Luc du Preez), Saints (Lawes and Ribbans). Lock's such a vital position in the modern game, Wells and Green are good club players but can be blown out the water at times by the best locks in the league. Tigers will also have Champions Cup games to factor in this season too, those games against top European sides will take a physical toll for the forwards in particular.

All that said I think George Martin has all the ingredients to be a top second row and hope he progresses to playing there more than blindside this season. I'd just prefer the option of partnering our talented young locks with a top second row such as Botha to help bring them through.

In comparison to some of my frustrations from recent seasons it's a relatively small gripe I will admit.

I think Wells is a good lock for Tigers. He wont be away for internationals...hes aggressive and a good size unit. Him alongside one of the youngsters will be fine...in order to develop the kids.

Im like Green aswell. He might not be a highlights player...but his lineout is superb and he does the grunt work. Play him alongside a Martin or such and again its experience for the youngsters coming through