SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Pollard is off to Leicester. Best kept secret that one.

I'm in shock, never saw that one coming.

The most high profile flyhalf available is a bit of a statement signing. Interesting that he's said in his welcome interview that he had bigger offers on the table, I wasn't expecting him to openly admit that.

In Japan though.....he obviously still has some ambition in him at 27, plenty of time left before he makes that jump. Good signing, not many 10's are a step up on Ford.

Falcons were briefly linked with Ihaia West (who would have been an incredible signing for us....) before he promptly decided to go and sign for Toulon! As a North East lad myself looking to make the same move, I can see where he's coming from....the North East winter (and summer actually) isn't exactly enticing.

Pollard has already done a spell in Japan for good cash so it might be that he doesn't want to do it again. He's given a pretty Frank interview to the Tigers media team in which he describes Ford as world class and also says about playing style:

HP: The challenge of trying to outsmart your opponents with a game plan and discipline is what excites me, because that’s the way I was brought up with my rugby in Pretoria and South Africa.

Super Rugby is a fast paced, open style of rugby and France was on another level with space and playing what you see, which is fine, but I wasn’t brought up that way; I played for the Bulls and Springboks, where it is quite structured and about out-smarting your opponent in terms of tactics and not just one guys brilliance.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Pollard has already done a spell in Japan for good cash so it might be that he doesn't want to do it again. He's given a pretty Frank interview to the Tigers media team in which he describes Ford as world class and also says about playing style:

Not quite the same as he was playing Super Rugby at the time and you can do a Japan stint in the off season.

Not really a surprise that Pollard has good things to say about Ford, he's loved by the fans. As much as I rate Ford, he's not world class.

Apparently Wasps have signed Vincent Koch from Sarries from next season.

Massive statement from Wasps

Yeah just seen that. Thats a great signing for them. Hes a beast

Terrific signing for Wasps. Koch isn't actually as formidable a scrummager as the other big name Boks props but he's more than solid and fantastic around the park. He also has a record of playing a lot of club games despite being an international which is vital as well.

Will be interesting to see if Sarries replace with a starter or if Riccioni (a really talented player) steps up. If it's the salary cap reduction hitting them then they might struggle with a starting quality replacement.

I think we will see a few unexpected moves such as these with the cap reduction.

Very good acquisition for Wasps. Such a mobile player should suit their game plan down to the ground. He'll add something at set piece time though as Carlos says he won't single handedly give Wasps a good scrum. Get him into the front row with West and Frost and they'll have something there. Little bit worrying that Wasps are actually starting to build a half decent tight five for the first time in a while.

Telegraph reporting Sam Skinner to Edinburgh next season

The commentators said Jonnie Hill was off next season as the salary cap is reduced.

rosbif wrote:The commentators said Jonnie Hill was off next season as the salary cap is reduced.

Being linked with Sale as De Jager heading back to SA apparently

BigGee wrote:

rosbif wrote:The commentators said Jonnie Hill was off next season as the salary cap is reduced.

Being linked with Sale as De Jager heading back to SA apparently

Except Lood will be one of the marquee players and Hill can't be when he joins so won't be a direct replacement in cap terms.

Are the Premiership not binning one of the marquee spots next year?

JP Du Preez is off next year so Sale should be in the market for a lock if De Jager is also going.

Skinner to Edinburgh does not really make much sense to me unless Toolis is calling time. Edinburgh already have 3 guys at the edge of the Scotland squad at lock (Gilchrist, Hodgson, Sykes) and signed Glen Young last season who was thought to be in the mix (injuries so far this year). Also have more back-rows than necessary.

Head coach changes

Van Graan, of recent Munster fame, moves to Bath from next season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59668760

Munster defence coach JP Ferreira rumoured to be following him.

Snyman and de Allende rumoured to be leaving Munster as well. Rumours are de Allende back to Japan. Apparently van Graan wanted to renew Snyman's contract but the private investors that bankrolled his first contract didn't want to put the cash in after the ACL ruptures.

Tigers have just confirmed that Genge is off at the end of the season.

No confirmation on destination but Bristol are rumoured to have cap space for a LH so I'd guess there.

As a Tigers fan I'm biased but I'm not sure it's the best move for Genge. Judging by him starting ahead of Marler when both were available in the Georgia game he seemed first choice for England and has captained an thus far unbeaten Tigers side. Completely hypothetical as we don't know the sums involved but an extra £50k in club wages for instance is two England appearance fees.

Ford and Genge were rumoured to be unhappy with the way Tigers highest paid players were expected to take the biggest wage cuts when covid bit. Both have now departed. A shame.

What's going on at Leicester? They finally seem to have got their act together and have just lost for me their best 2 players.

I mean for   sake. What a   show. On current form the best team in the league with finally a good backroom team but can't convince star players to sign new deals. *Bangs head on desk*

There isn't a like for like replacement for Genge going to be plucked out of wherever either. This is going to sting. I really hope we've managed to tie down the rest of the players coming up renewal as Borthwick isn't going to be able to build on the shifting sands of a full squad rebuild every effing summer. Especially if we keep losing players we've built up to international level and then have to go shopping for replacements that's going to take a lot of time and resources.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I mean for   sake. What a   show. On current form the best team in the league with finally a good backroom team but can't convince star players to sign new deals. *Bangs head on desk*

There isn't a like for like replacement for Genge going to be plucked out of wherever either. This is going to sting. I really hope we've managed to tie down the rest of the players coming up renewal as Borthwick isn't going to be able to build on the shifting sands of a full squad rebuild every effing summer. Especially if we keep losing players we've built up to international level and then have to go shopping for replacements that's going to take a lot of time and resources.

The new London Irish?

There must be more to this in seriousness surely? Borthwick rubbing people up the wrong way?

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's going on at Leicester? They finally seem to have got their act together and have just lost for me their best 2 players.

Cap reduction and only one marquee player. We will see a lot of unexpected moves within the Premiership compared to usual I think as senior players look to make up for wage reduction due to covid.

Already had Koch to Waps, MacGinty to Bristol, Ford to Sale and Genge to presumably Bristol.

Mako and Billy potentially leaving Sarries.

Obano potentially leaving Bath.

Hill and Skinner potentially leaving Exeter.

Faf, Lood, du Preez x 4, van Rensburg, Oosthuizen and Akker variously rumoured out of Sale.

There will be lots of player movement.

Genge off is a shock. Bit of a talisman for Leicester though if he goes back to Bristol it may not be entirely the club.

Sutherland went to Worcester last season and both Kebble and Schoeman are both coming to end of contract this year I think so hopefully this is not going to be another raid on Scottish clubs. Wyn Jones and Carre are well below the 60 cap limit and the Irish LH's of that quality/potential are not likely to be available.

Not sure about English LH's. Would they go after Bevan Rodd? M Vunipola?

If Tigers couldn't afford Genge within the cap then I doubt they'd get Mako. Only way Mako will move within the Prem is if it's to Bristol with Genge replacing him at Sarries I think. The Vunipola bros will either stay at Sarries or go to France I'd predict.

Cian Healy is out of contract with Leinster.

Mikheil Nariashvili out of contract at Montpellier.

Obano out of contract at Bath. Though I don't think Obano is the best scrummager to be honest. Absolutely mashes guys in defence though.

I didn't realise Schoe was out of contract...

Telegraph reporting that Bristol is the destination. Family reasons apparently cited.

TBH I think Ford and Genge were put out by the way the wage cuts were handled and were probably expecting absolutely gigantic deals this time around to make up for the lost income.

When Quins lost Sinckler I'd say Sincks was probably one of top 3 THs in rugby alongside Furlong and Marlherbe. Quins signed relatively unknown Wilco Louw and won the Premiership with Louw being in most peoples XV of the season. Genge isn't near Sincks quality in that form. He's a very good player and a big loss but not irreplaceable in my opinion.

king_carlos wrote:Telegraph reporting that Bristol is the destination. Family reasons apparently cited.

TBH I think Ford and Genge were put out by the way the wage cuts were handled and were probably expecting absolutely gigantic deals this time around to make up for the lost income.

When Quins lost Sinckler I'd say Sincks was probably one of top 3 THs in rugby alongside Furlong and Marlherbe. Quins signed relatively unknown Wilco Louw and won the Premiership with Louw being in most peoples XV of the season. Genge isn't near Sincks quality in that form. He's a very good player and a big loss but not irreplaceable in my opinion.

Sincks was the third best TH but the Quins scrum is now better without him. Sincks scrum work can be a bit up and down but I remember Genge really going to work on him in both games that season, which was handy because Tigers didn't have much else at the time.

Genge isn't irreplaceable but I don't know of a like for like replacement that can offer what he does around the loose. I think we are likely to just take the hit next season and go with van Wyk starting and Leatigaga from the bench. Richardson and Whitcombe as squad back up. Will leave us with Cole, Heyes, Hurd and the massive but very young Hoyt at tighthead.

Genge's defence is excellent since working with England but his carrying this season has returned to the days of running sideways and losing the ball in contact too often. His scrummaging has got much more consistent over the last few years but isn't infallible. He got mullered by Collier recently.

I'd certainly consider Sinckler just as good a scrummager as Genge. The last time he faced Genge twice in a season he did so with Elia Elia and Dave Ward at hooker against Polota-Nau.

If we can sign a reliable scrummager on a much lower contract than Genge then keep hold of Moroni and Scott I'd be very happy with where the squad is. I wouldn't want to go into next season with van Wyk as starting LH. Good player but just not a strong enough scrummager.

king_carlos wrote:Genge's defence is excellent since working with England but his carrying this season has returned to the days of running sideways and losing the ball in contact too often. His scrummaging has got much more consistent over the last few years but isn't infallible. He got mullered by Collier recently.

I'd certainly consider Sinckler just as good a scrummager as Genge. The last time he faced Genge twice in a season he did so with Elia Elia and Dave Ward at hooker against Polota-Nau.

If we can sign a reliable scrummager on a much lower contract than Genge then keep hold of Moroni and Scott I'd be very happy with where the squad is. I wouldn't want to go into next season with van Wyk as starting LH. Good player but just not a strong enough scrummager.

Agree on most of that.

With not signing a replacement immediately it means a tougher year next year but the summer of 2023 sees Ox Nche and Tom West come out of contract. Two good scrummagers I'm sure Borthwick would back himself to improve and at prime age.

Bristol must be set to lose a few players with the calibre of the guys they've signed. Neither can be their marquee player so they're paying for them in full within the cap, somethings got to give presumable.

Honestly stunned Genge is going, watching him on Good, Bad Rugby he seemed real stoked with Tigers (when he lets any emotions slip through) and the team is looking great, why would you want to leave that? Seems like a real sudden U turn and it's pretty gutting if it's all money driven. I hope it doesn't bite him in the arse, Synkler moved back to Bristol and you have to say at best he's plateud since 2019.

Welcome to the world of budget restrictions....ironically it wont affect us and will probably give us an advantage....

Changes at Bath i see....

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/bath-rugby-appoint-johann-van-graan-as-head-coach-for-the-202223-season/

Very surprised with Genge going but no great loss really, especially with the cash he'll be getting.

I find Genge massively overhyped personally. He's got 30 England caps and never looked anymore than decent. You'll pick up a loose head for half his money, probably even a better scrummager. Good move for both I reckon.

lostinwales wrote:Head coach changes

Van Graan, of recent Munster fame, moves to Bath from next season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59668760

Look up the definition of 'meh' and you'll see Johan Van Graan. He might do ok with getting Bath to mid table but that's all.

Early reports out of Exeter is Skinner is going to Edinburgh and Jonny Hill is heading to Sale (not confirmed yet). Sale look like they will be losing a lot of the S.African roster next season.

De Jager is on his way (not sure where) and van Rensburg looks like he might be heading back to S.Africa.

van der Merwe is also out of contract so guessing he's probably on his way too.

yappysnap wrote:Bristol must be set to lose a few players with the calibre of the guys they've signed. Neither can be their marquee player so they're paying for them in full within the cap, somethings got to give presumable.

Honestly stunned Genge is going, watching him on Good, Bad Rugby he seemed real stoked with Tigers (when he lets any emotions slip through) and the team is looking great, why would you want to leave that? Seems like a real sudden U turn and it's pretty gutting if it's all money driven. I hope it doesn't bite him in the arse, Synkler moved back to Bristol and you have to say at best he's plateud since 2019.

From what i can find they have the following guys out of contract in the summer.

Yann Thomas, Jake Woolmore, Joe Cotton, Kyle Sinckler, John Afoa, Dave Attwood, Chris Vui, John Hawkins, Jake Heenan, Mithc Eadie, Adeolokun, Charles Piutau

I think Piutau was given an extension beyond 2022 but I would think he is either gone (replaced by Lloyd internally) or taking a pay cut if his contract is up.

Would the WRU make a play for Sheedy and/or Lloyd?

Piatau might want to play for Tonga in the World Cup?

Hazel Sapling wrote:I think Piutau was given an extension beyond 2022 but I would think he is either gone (replaced by Lloyd internally) or taking a pay cut if his contract is up.

Would the WRU make a play for Sheedy and/or Lloyd?

When are their contracts up?  With the rules in Wales it’s often the other way around, i.e. the player making a play for Wales!  The rules, to paraphrase, state that if a player playing ‘overseas’ is under 60 caps and wants to continue to be eligible for Wales once his contract at the overseas club is up, he needs to move to a Welsh region.  Otherwise he then becomes ineligible. So if they’re out of contract soon then their agents will probably be hitting up the regions looking for contracts.  IF they can see a future for themselves in the Wales squad, that is. If they’re not bothered then they’ll probably stay in the English prem.

Actually, is Lloyd even capped?  if not he could get a new contract as the 60 cap thing only starts from the first cap onwards so if he starts a new contract before he’s capped then he’ll be fine (for a few years).

Hazel Sapling wrote:Would the WRU make a play for Sheedy and/or Lloyd?

If Sheedy is out of contract yes, but there wouldn't be anywhere for him to go other than Dragons, who are favourites to get culled.

Fly-half options;
Dragons: Sam Davies....
Cardiff: Jarrod Evans, Ben Thomas, Rhys Priestland
Ospreys: Gareth Anscombe, Stephen Myler
Scarlets: Rhys Patchell, Sam Costelow, Dan Thomas, Angus O'Brien.

I expect Myler is off but does it make that much sense to have them both there when neither is first choice for Wales yet. Lloyd is an option I would love to have on our books, but he hasn't played a lot this season so it's not a good time for him to move across to some average team.

The Oracle wrote:

Actually, is Lloyd even capped?  if not he could get a new contract as the 60 cap thing only starts from the first cap onwards so if he starts a new contract before he’s capped then he’ll be fine (for a few years).  

He is capped.

Hazel Sapling wrote:I think Piutau was given an extension beyond 2022 but I would think he is either gone (replaced by Lloyd internally) or taking a pay cut if his contract is up.

Would the WRU make a play for Sheedy and/or Lloyd?

Piutau is in contract but with everything going in the world he might be eyeing a move closer to home for purely personal reasons to be fair.

If he left it would be a big blow for Bristol as they'd then drop to 1 marquee. If Radrada and Piutau stay on their contracts signed before the reduction was announced then they can keep 2 marquees until the first of those deals expires.

My understanding is that even with the adjustments it's Piutau's last contract year.

The Marquee reduction is probably playing a part if they choose not to offer him anything new. He was on a million quid per year according to reports and Luatua must be the other marquee so maybe they are forced to let him go. If he doesn't stay he's probably off to France or Japan as nobody else will be able to afford him.

Radrada and Piutau are certainly the marquees at Bristol. Both are meant to be on close to £1m a year. Luatua is rumoured to be just under half of that.

In 2019 Piutau signed a 2 year extension that took his deal to 2022. Then in 2020 he agreed another extension of unannounced length during the covid renegotiation.

Genge turned down an offer from Saracens & is signing for Bristol by all accounts.

Tigers probably eyeing up our Brantingham for the future..

GeordieFalcon wrote:Welcome to the world of budget restrictions....ironically it wont affect us and will probably give us an advantage....

I was thinking that the sides who couldn't spend up to the higher cap might weather this better over the next 2 years. The big downside to that though will be that when the cap comes back up I could see the clubs with bigger budgets spending up to the cap again immediately and raiding the smaller clubs.

mikey_dragon wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Actually, is Lloyd even capped?  if not he could get a new contract as the 60 cap thing only starts from the first cap onwards so if he starts a new contract before he’s capped then he’ll be fine (for a few years).  

He is capped.

Cheers. Lazy of me not to look it up So he’s another who needs to come home when his contact expires if he has ambitions to continue to play for Wales.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tigers probably eyeing up our Brantingham for the future..

Brantingham is a cracking prospect but James Whitcombe looks the heir apparent at LH long term for Tigers. He just needs time to grow into senior rugby as Heyes did.

A solid scrummager on half the cash that Genge would be wanting to tide us through for a couple of years as Whitcombe develops would be absolutely grand.

I rate Genge but my concerns with potential losses at Tigers were predominantly fly-half and centre not at prop. If Ford left we needed a good replacement which Pollard should be in theory - getting games from him is the only issue. At centre we signed Moroni and Scott when both were unattached and desperate for a contract so didn't cost much. They have been absolutely fantastic but are coming out of contract and will be getting plenty of offers.

Oakdene wrote:Genge turned down an offer from Saracens & is signing for Bristol by all accounts.

If that is so it could indicate Mako is on the move anyway

Confirmed to Bristol then. Real kick in the nuts for Leicester for the run in.

king_carlos wrote:In 2019 Piutau signed a 2 year extension that took his deal to 2022. Then in 2020 he agreed another extension of unannounced length during the covid renegotiation.

You can thank Ulster for inflating his worth.

Welshmushroom wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Bristol must be set to lose a few players with the calibre of the guys they've signed. Neither can be their marquee player so they're paying for them in full within the cap, somethings got to give presumable.

Honestly stunned Genge is going, watching him on Good, Bad Rugby he seemed real stoked with Tigers (when he lets any emotions slip through) and the team is looking great, why would you want to leave that? Seems like a real sudden U turn and it's pretty gutting if it's all money driven. I hope it doesn't bite him in the arse, Synkler moved back to Bristol and you have to say at best he's plateud since 2019.

From what i can find they have the following guys out of contract in the summer.

Yann Thomas, Jake Woolmore, Joe Cotton, Kyle Sinckler, John Afoa, Dave Attwood, Chris Vui, John Hawkins, Jake Heenan, Mithc Eadie, Adeolokun, Charles Piutau

Looking at that list I could see Afoa and Attwood both leaving and freeing up budget. If they don't stick with Sinckler after how much they paid for him then imo that's just bizarre, and not good for him to start moving around regularly, players always play better when they're settled.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Confirmed to Bristol then. Real kick in the nuts for Leicester for the run in.

Not really, we always knew he'd go back to Bristol at some point. Real shame that it's at a time when we've started to become a bit of a force again though. Can't say I blame him he's always confessed to be a Bristol lad and all his family there with a little baby at home Covid has probably heightened his want for being back home on Bristol as he's admitted lockdown and the England bubble hit him hard mentally.

From what's been said it sounds like he's joined Bristol on his post Covid salary slash level (big earners at Tigers took up to a 25% pay cut to help the club out) so the rumours of Tigers trying to keep those big salaries down seems true and probably helped Bristol get him under the cap. Afoa is set to retire so that would free up a good chunk to start with.