Lions Watch: Six Nations Report

by whatahitson Mon 15 Mar - 4:08

First topic message reminder :

Well we're nearly done with the Six Nations so if the Lions goes ahead who do you like the look of and who do you think will be touring?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Apr - 22:40

You could use examples like fourie or botha fly to make a better point rather than kids moving with their families.

by Soul Requiem Fri 2 Apr - 22:44

No 7&1/2 wrote:You could use examples like fourie or botha fly to make a better point rather than kids moving with their families.

That's my exact point. Billy moved when he was young for family reasons, Nathan Hughes moved as an established player in order to get selected. Two very different situations.

Botha, Fourie, Flutey, Vanikola, Henry Paul and Solomona should not have been playing for England. You then have complicated situations like Te'o and Shields who decided to use parentage after they were deemed not good enough by New Zealand.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Apr - 22:49

Soul Requiem wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You could use examples like fourie or botha fly to make a better point rather than kids moving with their families.

That's my exact point. Billy moved when he was young for family reasons, Nathan Hughes moved as an established player in order to get selected. Two very different situations.

Botha, Fourie, Flutey, Vanikola, Henry Paul and Solomona should not have been playing for England. You then have complicated situations like Te'o and Shields who decided to use parentage after they were deemed not good enough by New Zealand.

Hmm. I liked botha and fourie could have been good if not for the injury.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 3 Apr - 0:07

flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Well VDM is SA's loss. I think he has shown that he is good enough play for them. As far as I know they've never had a flanker play on the wing, so it would have been interesting to see the extra dimension he brought to the Boks!

TBH, and this is just my opinion, but if the politics in SA were different, for want of a better word, I think he would be playing for SA.

Do Scotland have an academy in SA though ? I ask this seriously, as they seem to have a lot of players from that country in Scotland.

Damn our cunning plan has been caught out
Scotland have 4, Nel, Kebble, vd Walt, vd Merwe.
Ireland have 3, Herring, Roux, Stander
France have 2, le Roux, Willemse
England have 0 (Hartleys been booted out)
Wales have 0

I mean we have so many SA's compared to any other 6Ns side, it's quite unfair to all the other squads

Are you talking about Dylan Hartley? If so, he was born in NZ not SA and his mother was English.

We've not really had any SA players since Brad Barritt by memory and he had English family too.

Scotland do seem to have had a bit of a recruitment drive in Africa. You've had quite a number over recent times from what I can recall, Du Preez, Dell, Strauss, Denton, McGuigan....plus the current 4.

I seem to recall a bit of controversy over the signing of a few you SA teenagers not so long ago too??

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 0:12

anyone who thinks Scotland have more foreign born player than other unions is being ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line? Denton for example came over at 18 - a Scots mother who taught him he was part scots and thats how he always considered himself

So where do you draw the line so you can claim Tuilagi is OK but Nel is not?

by doctor_grey Sat 3 Apr - 0:26

I have no idea where to draw the line. But in today's (non-Covid) world the Home Nations are less homogeneous than ever and birth site is irrelevant. And internationally there is so much more movement than even 20 years ago. So place of birth and where someone lived for the first 10 or 15 years becomes less important as well.

I agree with a lot of people who think the three year residency rules too short. A part of me thinks if someone wants to represent his adopted home, he/she should be on the road to residency and/or citizenship. But I could easily be talked out of that if someone has another idea.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 3 Apr - 0:30

TJ wrote:anyone who thinks Scotland have more foreign born player than other unions is being ridiculous.

Not by this article: https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2021/02/03/foreign-born-produced-players-in-2021-six-nations/

Scotland - 23
Wales - 12
Italy - 10
Ireland - 8
France - 4
England 2

Don't shoot the messenger Wink

by Heuer27 Sat 3 Apr - 0:32

TJ wrote:anyone who thinks Scotland have more foreign born player than other unions is being ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line? Denton for example came over at 18 - a Scots mother who taught him he was part scots and thats how he always considered himself

So where do you draw the line so you can claim Tuilagi is OK but Nel is not?

I was fortunate enough to be invited to the captains run for the 2018 Calcutta cup match. Managed to speak with the players afterwards including Dave Denton. He was a sub that game and I asked him if he was looking forward to the game. His reply is unrepeatable on this forum but he was very definitely going to give his all for the cause given the opportunity. There is no question in my mind as to how he saw himself or his nationality.

by EST Sat 3 Apr - 0:53

https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/status/1377974002673651712

Absolutely made up for The Mish - very well deserved and delighted his form has been recognised.

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 1:01

Well thats a load of pish that article. Honestly absurd.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 3 Apr - 1:06

TJ wrote:Well thats a load of pish that article. Honestly absurd.

Which bit in particular?

by No 7&1/2 Sat 3 Apr - 1:08

As long as redpaths dad was really Scottish its ok. LD will be able to confirm.

by doctor_grey Sat 3 Apr - 1:12

EST wrote:https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/status/1377974002673651712

Absolutely made up for The Mish - very well deserved and delighted his form has been recognised.

An award like that clearly eliminates him from Lions selection and future discussion. Pride goes before the fall. He peaked too early. Would be overcooked for the Lions.

by EST Sat 3 Apr - 1:16

doctor_grey wrote:
EST wrote:https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/status/1377974002673651712

Absolutely made up for The Mish - very well deserved and delighted his form has been recognised.
An award like that clearly eliminates him from Lions selection and future discussion. Pride goes before the fall. He peaked too early. Would be overcooked for the Lions.

I'd move him up one place as a result, he's now 15th in line for the 7 jersey now.

by Collapse2005 Sat 3 Apr - 1:18

I thought Watson was great and I loved watching him play. For me the award was between him and Dupont who I think is the world player of the year. I voted for Dupont but cant begrudge Watson, he was awesome.

by mikey_dragon Sat 3 Apr - 1:22

That’s great for Hamish Watson, overdue and well deserved!

by Soul Requiem Sat 3 Apr - 1:28

TJ wrote:anyone who thinks Scotland have more foreign born player than other unions is being ridiculous.

Where do you draw the line? Denton for example came over at 18 - a Scots mother who taught him he was part scots and thats how he always considered himself

So where do you draw the line so you can claim Tuilagi is OK but Nel is not?

WP Nel moved because he wasn't good enough to play for South Africa to be fair.

by **BigGee** Sat 3 Apr - 1:31

TJ wrote:One thing I really would like to see is that if a dual qualified player chooses a tier one nation then they still have the right to play for a tier 2 nation. using Visser as an example - a clear mercenary - he never wrapped himself in the flag but once his international career was over it would have been a boon to the netherlands had he been able to have a season or two with them afterwards

A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

I am very happy for him to have become a Scottish International, as I am with all the other players who have served their time and qualify through the rules. Some will stay at the end of their careers, others will go, we all have a life to live and a career to persue. Lots of us who do not play international rugby will move somewhere else during our working lives or in retirement as well!

Terminology like Mercenary are not very helpful to a discussion like this and bring it to close to the verge of xeonophobia for my liking.

Rugby players have chosen to represent other countries than that of their birth since time and memorial.

Eric Liddle. it could easily be argued was Chinese, having been born there and spent the greater part of his life there, returning there to work after his brief spell in Edinburgh where he was capped and won Olympic Gold. He is often referred to as China's first Gold medalist!

Iain Smith, our record try scorerer from that same vintage as Liddell, was Australian and I don't think had ever stepped in Scotland before he was capped from his university.

Both of those great players had Scottish heritage and i think would have objected to being decribed as mercenaries.

I appreciate that term seems to be primarily used for players who qualify through residence, but I remain unclear why it is looked upon so scathingly by some, if they have played and commited to a nation for the required amount of time then we should welcome them.

by 123456789. Sat 3 Apr - 1:51

I always find these discussions slightly bizarre. I've said it many times on here that I was born in England to Scottish parents, I speak with a home counties accent. I've lived in Scotland for about four to five years in total. I can say honestly that if I'd been good enough I would have chosen Scotland over England every day of the week and twice on the Sunday. I'm very clear that I see myself as British first, Scottish second and not remotely English. I know a lot of people in the same boat, as a rule second generation Scots tend to be just as patriotic as those who were born there. There is every reason to believe that Ali Price, Hamish Watson and Cameron Redpath feel exactly the same way.

On the other hand, much as Duhan Van Der Merwe has been an excellent addition to the Scotland team the fact from next year the only reason he'll have to return to Scotland is to play for the national team. It is slightly silly to have a team stuffed with 'project players'. Equally, nationality is a complex and personal issue. There are players like WP Nel who has played nine years in Edinburgh despite having bigger contracts on offer elsewhere and looks set to stay in Scotland. I think moving toward a five year residency period is a very positive step for rugby.
I am slightly uncomfortable with the word mercenary. It is right to say that some players take a path that offers more money. Nathan Hughes grew up in Fiji, the average annual income is significantly less than you get paid for one match for England.

Anyway, if Van Der Merwe gets picked for the Lions and scores against the Boks then I don't think anyone would care either way. It does seem a rather silly diversion from chat about the Lions. Although, I have always wondered. Say, Sione Tuipolotu the Scottish qualified Australian centre who has just signed for Glasgow happened to be picked for the Lions and played a test against South Africa before being picked for Scotland, would he still be eligible for Australia?

by flyhalffactory Sat 3 Apr - 1:57

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Well VDM is SA's loss. I think he has shown that he is good enough play for them. As far as I know they've never had a flanker play on the wing, so it would have been interesting to see the extra dimension he brought to the Boks!

TBH, and this is just my opinion, but if the politics in SA were different, for want of a better word, I think he would be playing for SA.

Do Scotland have an academy in SA though ? I ask this seriously, as they seem to have a lot of players from that country in Scotland.

Damn our cunning plan has been caught out
Scotland have 4, Nel, Kebble, vd Walt, vd Merwe.
Ireland have 3, Herring, Roux, Stander
France have 2, le Roux, Willemse
England have 0 (Hartleys been booted out)
Wales have 0

I mean we have so many SA's compared to any other 6Ns side, it's quite unfair to all the other squads

Are you talking about Dylan Hartley? If so, he was born in NZ not SA and his mother was English.

We've not really had any SA players since Brad Barritt by memory and he had English family too.

Scotland do seem to have had a bit of a recruitment drive in Africa. You've had quite a number over recent times from what I can recall, Du Preez, Dell, Strauss, Denton, McGuigan....plus the current 4.

I seem to recall a bit of controversy over the signing of a few you SA teenagers not so long ago too??

Yes sorry about that's me talking a load of bollox
Toonie has said from the start "it's the chicken or the egg".....do we get success first so that would encourage kids to the game of rugger (if so we scour the world for Scottish connections) or do we yet again try to encourage a very long term plan of changing the infrastructure to get youngsters involved
We've gone for the chicken.....or was it the egg Erm

by **BigGee** Sat 3 Apr - 2:13

It is highly likely that Scotland will never have the volume of good young players to maintain a national team at the level we hope to see them play. The only amazing thing is that we manage to produce as many as we do!

We have always relied on our diaspora and i can't see that changing. Luckily for us, Scotland has always exported people and we do have people with our heritage all over the world.

Scotland is a small country and rugby an even smaller sport within it. We have to be pragmatic to compete. it is not as if other countries with far more resources than us are not doing it as well!

This debate about the right to play for any particular country has reared up periodically ever since I have been on this forum and I have no doubt the same old debate will be playing on in five or ten years time.

I am still no wiser as to why that is?

The rules are what they are and are the same for everyone.

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 3:07

A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

He never made any bones about it. He was honest in that he never pretended to be a scot and only came to Edinburgh in an attempt to qualify for Scotland having previously attempted to qualify for England. He wanted to play top level international rugby. Not that he wanted to play for scotland

I would much rather have Vissers honesty than someone who pretends they wanted to be a scot and play for Scotland - what was that welsh player who tried to claim that then found he was tied to Wales?

by **BigGee** Sat 3 Apr - 3:36

TJ wrote:
A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

He never made any bones about it. He was honest in that he never pretended to be a scot and only came to Edinburgh in an attempt to qualify for Scotland having previously attempted to qualify for England. He wanted to play top level international rugby. Not that he wanted to play for scotland

I would much rather have Vissers honesty than someone who pretends they wanted to be a scot and play for Scotland - what was that welsh player who tried to claim that then found he was tied to Wales?

Well that is not my recollection of Tim Visser, so clearly perceptions vary!

by king_carlos Sat 3 Apr - 3:49

EST wrote:https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/status/1377974002673651712

Absolutely made up for The Mish - very well deserved and delighted his form has been recognised.

Much deserved as well. I've rated Mish ever since academy rugby and he's one of my favourite players to watch. He just does so many things well and is a lot of fun rolled into the package. Plus that mullet is glorious.

by lostinwales Sat 3 Apr - 4:10

TJ wrote:
A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

He never made any bones about it. He was honest in that he never pretended to be a scot and only came to Edinburgh in an attempt to qualify for Scotland having previously attempted to qualify for England. He wanted to play top level international rugby. Not that he wanted to play for scotland

I would much rather have Vissers honesty than someone who pretends they wanted to be a scot and play for Scotland - what was that welsh player who tried to claim that then found he was tied to Wales?

I get it. Players you like are welcome to play for your team. Foreign born players for other teams are nasty mercenaries.

by king_carlos Sat 3 Apr - 4:44

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/54672958

An absolutely wonderful example of why rules of international eligibility can't be black and white.

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 5:37

lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:
A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

He never made any bones about it. He was honest in that he never pretended to be a scot and only came to Edinburgh in an attempt to qualify for Scotland having previously attempted to qualify for England. He wanted to play top level international rugby. Not that he wanted to play for scotland

I would much rather have Vissers honesty than someone who pretends they wanted to be a scot and play for Scotland - what was that welsh player who tried to claim that then found he was tied to Wales?

I get it. Players you like are welcome to play for your team. Foreign born players for other teams are nasty mercenaries.

What on earth are you on about? Jeepers

there was a Welsh guy whos name I cannot remember. Decided he wanted to play for scotland. Pictured with a saltire, claimed he always wanted to play for Scotland despite no connection apart from one grandparent or something. then found out he was tied to wales so couldn't.

he looked a real numpty and it was obvious his flag waving was pure rubbish. Thats not being honest.

by king_carlos Sat 3 Apr - 5:39

Ah the spirit of the Lions. Bringing together fans across the home nations.

by **BigGee** Sat 3 Apr - 5:45

TJ wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
TJ wrote:
A think 'clear mercenary' is a very odd way to describe Tim Visser, who spent 5 years playing for Edinburgh, then Scotland and has returned to his adopted city in his post rugby career.

He never made any bones about it. He was honest in that he never pretended to be a scot and only came to Edinburgh in an attempt to qualify for Scotland having previously attempted to qualify for England. He wanted to play top level international rugby. Not that he wanted to play for scotland

I would much rather have Vissers honesty than someone who pretends they wanted to be a scot and play for Scotland - what was that welsh player who tried to claim that then found he was tied to Wales?

I get it. Players you like are welcome to play for your team. Foreign born players for other teams are nasty mercenaries.

What on earth are you on about? Jeepers

there was a Welsh guy whos name I cannot remember. Decided he wanted to play for scotland. Pictured with a saltire, claimed he always wanted to play for Scotland despite no connection apart from one grandparent or something. then found out he was tied to wales so couldn't.

he looked a real numpty and it was obvious his flag waving was pure rubbish. Thats not being honest.

That was Shingler, who actually had really quite strong connections to Scotland, his mother. He was very much a victim in that shenanigan and i would not say looked like a numpty at all. His career probably never really recovered from that, something the Welsh and Scottish Unions should have considered when playing those games!

by king_carlos Sat 3 Apr - 5:58

Steve Shingler seems to have found his feet again with Ealing. He hasn't fulfilled his potential since that confusion but he's at least still in the game and playing well.

by lostinwales Sat 3 Apr - 7:26

Players do get a lot of grief for wanting to make the most of what can be an all too short career.

I remember listening to a great interview with Genge when he was talking about loyalty to clubs and how fans have unrealistic expectations of loyalty from players.

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 8:17

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
TJ wrote:anyone who thinks Scotland have more foreign born player than other unions is being ridiculous.

Not by this article: https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2021/02/03/foreign-born-produced-players-in-2021-six-nations/

Scotland - 23
Wales - 12
Italy - 10
Ireland - 8
France - 4
England 2

Don't shoot the messenger

17 of those 23 have Scottish parents or grandparents. It's a bit sensationalist of an article.

As Biggee said a nation like Scotland with so few people playing rugby and only 2 Pro teams of course have to look outside Scotland for good players. Who are we to say if these guys feel any less proud of playing for Scotland.

And in the professional game, how much pride should one have in playing for a country before they're allowed to do so?

(I know I'm shooting the messenger here!)

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 8:20

Very pleased for Hamish Watson. I know it's s public vote and doesn't really mean anything, but that's a real statement of his esteeem.

I did vote twice for him mind as did every Scotland fan no doubt! Laugh

by Soul Requiem Sat 3 Apr - 8:26

Having that many players qualified through residency and grandparents is pretty ridiculous in fairness. This is international rugby not an extension of the club game.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 3 Apr - 8:33

Soul Requiem wrote:Having that many players qualified through residency and grandparents is pretty ridiculous in fairness. This is international rugby not an extension of the club game.

And international rugby have rules on how you qualify. Bar 1 Scottish player and Wales we all obey.

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 8:35

How many is an acceptable number?

Better go tell player of the tournament Watson he can't play for us anymore as there's too many grandparent qualified players!

You either have the rule or you don't. If players can play for a country based on grandparents then you pick whoever you want who falls into that category. Same with residency.

FWIW I think the 5 year residency rule is probably better than 3, and it will be nteresting how big an effect it will have on the global transfer market.

by Soul Requiem Sat 3 Apr - 8:43

Then you don't have the rule, pretty simple really. You should qualify through birth, parentage or youth development teams. Players moving to a country in their 20's and qualifying after three years is a joke.

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 8:47

Try telling big bad bob or hamish that they are not scots!

by TJ Sat 3 Apr - 8:48

Soul Requiem wrote:Then you don't have the rule, pretty simple really. You should qualify through birth, parentage or youth development teams. Players moving to a country in their 20's and qualifying after three years is a joke.

which is why we are now 5 yrs residency

Myself i think it should be graduated. Under 16 yrs old 3 years, 16 - 18 4 years, over 18 5 years

that way you do not penalise those that move as kids but stop the worst of the mercenaries

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 8:50

Ok but it's not up to Scotland to make these rules, so why should we be criticised more than other nations to be using it?

And again, how many is too many?

by Old Man Sat 3 Apr - 8:55

I will most likely have the wrath of many saying this, rugby is a professional sport and players go after money.

Playing for a club is a job, in the pure sense.

Representing your nation at international level is an honour, whilst representing another country is seen as treason in the pure sense.

But then nothing is pure anymore, is it?

Capitalism has altered the landscape of what many still expect to be pure. The three year residency, five year residency is just a delay tactic.

If you ask players who represented other nations on whether they are proud to have represented an adopted nation, of course they will say they are proud, it is still an achievement either way.

by Soul Requiem Sat 3 Apr - 8:57

I didn't say it was up to Scotland but their squad highlights the inadequacies of the current system. I'd say one residency player is too many myself. Watson is an odd one, he's ultimately as Scottish as I am Irish but his name tends to see him creep under the radar.

That isn't the fault of Scotland, DVDM, Watson but a fault in the system.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 3 Apr - 9:00

Old Man wrote:I will most likely have the wrath of many saying this, rugby is a professional sport and players go after money.

Playing for a club is a job, in the pure sense.

Representing your nation at international level is an honour, whilst representing another country is seen as treason in the pure sense.

But then nothing is pure anymore, is it?

Capitalism has altered the landscape of what many still expect to be pure. The three year residency, five year residency is just a delay tactic.

If you ask players who represented other nations on whether they are proud to have represented an adopted nation, of course they will say they are proud, it is still an achievement either way.

Weren't you pretty protective of Mtawarira?

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 9:01

Soul Requiem wrote:I didn't say it was up to Scotland but their squad highlights the inadequacies of the current system. I'd say one residency player is too many myself. Watson is an odd one, he's ultimately as Scottish as I am Irish but his name tends to see him creep under the radar.

That isn't the fault of Scotland, DVDM, Watson but a fault in the system.

That's fair enough, but hopefully you can understand why Scotland fans are getting a bit sick if this debate as it's a recurring one, and always targeted at us despite every other nation using the same rules!

That's not a comment specifically targeted at you by the way Hug

by Old Man Sat 3 Apr - 9:03

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I will most likely have the wrath of many saying this, rugby is a professional sport and players go after money.

Playing for a club is a job, in the pure sense.

Representing your nation at international level is an honour, whilst representing another country is seen as treason in the pure sense.

But then nothing is pure anymore, is it?

Capitalism has altered the landscape of what many still expect to be pure. The three year residency, five year residency is just a delay tactic.

If you ask players who represented other nations on whether they are proud to have represented an adopted nation, of course they will say they are proud, it is still an achievement either way.

Weren't you pretty protective of Mtawarira?

Not really, just defending the fact that he came to SA by his own choice, I was defending the notion that we poached players. If we did we are doing a lousy job of it.

by Soul Requiem Sat 3 Apr - 9:05

RDW wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I didn't say it was up to Scotland but their squad highlights the inadequacies of the current system. I'd say one residency player is too many myself. Watson is an odd one, he's ultimately as Scottish as I am Irish but his name tends to see him creep under the radar.

That isn't the fault of Scotland, DVDM, Watson but a fault in the system.

That's fair enough, but hopefully you can understand why Scotland fans are getting a bit sick if this debate as it's a recurring one, and always targeted at us despite every other nation using the same rules!

That's not a comment specifically targeted at you by the way

I don't aim it specifically at Scotland but rather most international teams. There have been numerous players I've been unhappy seeing line up for England, notably Nathan Hughes who would have been a hugely important player for Fiji.

by **RDW** Sat 3 Apr - 9:06

TJ wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Then you don't have the rule, pretty simple really. You should qualify through birth, parentage or youth development teams. Players moving to a country in their 20's and qualifying after three years is a joke.

which is why we are now 5 yrs residency

Myself i think it should be graduated. Under 16 yrs old 3 years, 16 - 18 4 years, over 18 5 years

that way you do not penalise those that move as kids but stop the worst of the mercenaries

That could work but it could also add to the problem of NZ and Aus scouting Pacific island players in their teens. It might become more prevalent as the younger they get them over the earlier they qualify.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 3 Apr - 9:15

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:I will most likely have the wrath of many saying this, rugby is a professional sport and players go after money.

Playing for a club is a job, in the pure sense.

Representing your nation at international level is an honour, whilst representing another country is seen as treason in the pure sense.

But then nothing is pure anymore, is it?

Capitalism has altered the landscape of what many still expect to be pure. The three year residency, five year residency is just a delay tactic.

If you ask players who represented other nations on whether they are proud to have represented an adopted nation, of course they will say they are proud, it is still an achievement either way.

Weren't you pretty protective of Mtawarira?

Not really, just defending the fact that he came to SA by his own choice, I was defending the notion that we poached players. If we did we are doing a lousy job of it.

No one poaches players. They're free willed individuals.

by lostinwales Sat 3 Apr - 9:23

Simple solution. If a player wants to play for a different country than the one they were born in then they should have that country's flag tatooed on a sensitive part of their body. I am sure Soul could be persuaded to check the results.

by Guest Sat 3 Apr - 10:36

Hamish Watson isn’t Scottish?’ Really?! F***! In my head he was as Scottish as they come! Never heard him talk but I always imagined him with a full on thick Scottish accept.

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