Ireland vs England

by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Mar 2021, 7:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd set up a neutral venue.

Some team news is that Ryan and Ringrose have been ruled out for the home team.

No sign as yet of Underhill so Wilson on for another start unless Jones gets brave and picks Martin from the off. May actually be tempted as POM is back available.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:01 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

I'm saying nothing mate lol....Sam will have me!

I will Ben had a decent game. Murray had a great game mind though it's easier to control when your forwards are on top in every facet of the game.

Ireland did us up front, completely. Starting pack have got to have a long hard look at themselves because none of them were good enough.

Henshaw and Beirne were sensational for Ireland. Their work in defence built that victory.

Only positive for me is young George Martin making his debut and having a good carry through Sexton and just doing the good hard graft without conceding pens. Should be the first of many caps over the next 10 to 15 years.

Just no. Youngs was back to his form vs Scotland. And the previous 12 months. Dreadful and pretty lucky yo be on at the end due to concussion. If that's him playing well...well I disagree he had a good understanding last week and against Wales and very much didn't here

by westisbest Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:01 pm

On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:01 pm

Old Man wrote:Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

Being locked up during a pandemic hasnt helped but yeah good luck to him. Great guy.

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:02 pm

westisbest wrote:On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.

One of our best players.

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:02 pm

westisbest wrote:On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.

One of our best players.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:02 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g

Thats not mitigation.

If you are sensible it is.

Its not me. I'm asking you for mitigation against the laws and thresholds. I'm willing to say to you fair enough you don't agree with the laws but in applying them you are wrong.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:02 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g

Thats not mitigation.

If you are sensible it is.

It's not about being sensible....that's the rule.

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:03 pm

Cant imagine the English media will go easy on Jones for finishing 5th. Very close to just getting one win v Italy.

by Heaf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:04 pm

Claiming it's waist high isn't sensible though ...

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:04 pm

Old Man wrote:Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

Does it? I don't agree. I've said previously on these boards that you can pick holes in application of international qualification on every rule. Finding an exception you think is wrong doesn't mean the rule is.

by Old Man Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:06 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

Does it? I don't agree. I've said previously on these boards that you can pick holes in application of international qualification on every rule. Finding an exception you think is wrong doesn't mean the rule is.

I didn’t say I disagree, it does suggest that it is mercenary in its application when looking at Stander’s case. He basically used Ireland as a means to an end.

I have seen a number of posters in the past suggest they are fine with foreign imports to their national team if they commit to the country,Stander clearly hasn’t

by TJ Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:07 pm

Not according to the rules of the game and guidance on high tackles.

by Armchairexpert Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:07 pm

Credit to Ireland first but England, beyond dreadful. But for a blade of grass and a generous interpretation last week England would be 1w 4l and I think that is a reasonable reflection

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:07 pm

westisbest wrote:On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.

Decent?! He's one of the best 15s in Europe at the minute!

by majesticimperialman Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:08 pm

After the England performance today i do not think may England players played them selves in to the Lions squad if the Lions take place this year.

I do believe England need a big rethink of who is in the squad going forward towards the next few years up to the next RWC.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

Does it? I don't agree. I've said previously on these boards that you can pick holes in application of international qualification on every rule. Finding an exception you think is wrong doesn't mean the rule is.

Stander is a Munster man through and through.

by TJ Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:09 pm

On Stander - I loathe players who do this. Adopt a country fine - play for them. A flag of convenience - stinks. the trouble is you do not really know which it is until they retire. for every Lineen who goes on to live and coach in his adopted country there is a Leslie brother who effs off back the moment they stop palying

I think the move to 5 year qualification will stop a lot of this

by Mr Bounce Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:10 pm

Well played Ireland. England clearly have learned very little this 6N.

Am personally looking forward to seeing a summer tour with some fresh blood, a new look squad and some added impetus with a will to do well and win.

I notice Dombrandt and Simmonds once again impressed today. We have no shortage of Billy replacements...

by westisbest Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:10 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
westisbest wrote:On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.
Decent?! He's one of the best 15s in Europe at the minute!

He had a decent tournament. Didn’t say he was decent.
Good play indeed.

by westisbest Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:10 pm

Welcome to BS4

https://twitter.com/mattinc/status/1373343132868296704?s=24

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:11 pm

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

Does it? I don't agree. I've said previously on these boards that you can pick holes in application of international qualification on every rule. Finding an exception you think is wrong doesn't mean the rule is.

I didn’t say I disagree, it does suggest that it is mercenary in its application when looking at Stander’s case. He basically used Ireland as a means to an end.

I have seen a number of posters in the past suggest they are fine with foreign imports to their national team if they commit to the country,Stander clearly hasn’t

So it doesn't question the adopted country rule. Quick turnaround.

by theslosty Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:12 pm

Stander has lived in Ireland for nearly 10 years and has given a lot to the country, even small things like learning the words to Amhran na bhFiann make a difference in people's minds. I think we've seen worse abuse of the rule particularly van der Merwe who's feiced off to Worcester as soon as he became Scottish qualified.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

I'm saying nothing mate lol....Sam will have me!

I will Ben had a decent game. Murray had a great game mind though it's easier to control when your forwards are on top in every facet of the game.

Ireland did us up front, completely. Starting pack have got to have a long hard look at themselves because none of them were good enough.

Henshaw and Beirne were sensational for Ireland. Their work in defence built that victory.

Only positive for me is young George Martin making his debut and having a good carry through Sexton and just doing the good hard graft without conceding pens. Should be the first of many caps over the next 10 to 15 years.

Just no. Youngs was back to his form vs Scotland. And the previous 12 months. Dreadful and pretty lucky yo be on at the end due to concussion. If that's him playing well...well I disagree he had a good understanding last week and against Wales and very much didn't here

Against Scotland we also had a beaten pack, if you expect our scrum halfs to provide a front foot display behind a beaten pack you will never be happy with any scrum half we have unless our pack is completely dominant against all comers.

Remember against Scotland Youngs engineered our two near best attempts at a try. The first by ignoring Farrell completely and playing off 9 until the two props managed to bodge a pass a few metres from the line. There was also the line break he was clean through bar the trip from Russell that led to the yellow card.

Considering Robson's woeful form the 6N there would have been no rush to being him on had we not lost both flyhalfs. He actually played better at stand off than he has at scrum half so far.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:14 pm

westisbest wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
westisbest wrote:On another note.
I thought Keenan had a decent tournament. Was excellent under the high ball.
Decent?! He's one of the best 15s in Europe at the minute!

He had a decent tournament. Didn’t say he was decent.
Good play indeed.

but he hasn't had a decent tournament. He's had a brilliant tournament especially given our style of rugby

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:14 pm

TJ wrote:On Stander - I loathe players who do this. Adopt a country fine - play for them. A flag of convenience - stinks. the trouble is you do not really know which it is until they retire. for every Lineen who goes on to live and coach in his adopted country there is a Leslie brother who effs off back the moment they stop palying

I think the move to 5 year qualification will stop a lot of this

I agree with the overall point you can't tell until after. Therre are guys who have qualified on residency for England who I'm happier in the shirt than for for any other qualification. And vice versa.

by **owen10ozzy** Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:15 pm

Just looked at penalty count..

67 given away...same as Italy (a side that get hammered game in and game out both figuratively & literally. By contrast France have conceded 26..

Most handling errors (truly shocking given we have kicked more than anyone)..2nd most scrum penalties conceded & offside conceded.

All very much the basics of the game which have failed at time and time again.

Ive always believed in Jones ability to get England moving in the right direction when it matters most but this championship has most certainly left me questioning whether it could well be time for him to move on.

I just dont have faith that he is willing to make the big calls, like stripping Farrell of captaincy, putting Billy V out to pasture, dropping one of if not both of Youngs & Daly etc.

The current side reeks of being one which has "the untouchables"...thats never good for a regressing team

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:16 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

I'm saying nothing mate lol....Sam will have me!

I will Ben had a decent game. Murray had a great game mind though it's easier to control when your forwards are on top in every facet of the game.

Ireland did us up front, completely. Starting pack have got to have a long hard look at themselves because none of them were good enough.

Henshaw and Beirne were sensational for Ireland. Their work in defence built that victory.

Only positive for me is young George Martin making his debut and having a good carry through Sexton and just doing the good hard graft without conceding pens. Should be the first of many caps over the next 10 to 15 years.

Just no. Youngs was back to his form vs Scotland. And the previous 12 months. Dreadful and pretty lucky yo be on at the end due to concussion. If that's him playing well...well I disagree he had a good understanding last week and against Wales and very much didn't here

Against Scotland we also had a beaten pack, if you expect our scrum halfs to provide a front foot display behind a beaten pack you will never be happy with any scrum half we have unless our pack is completely dominant against all comers.

Remember against Scotland Youngs engineered our two near best attempts at a try. The first by ignoring Farrell completely and playing off 9 until the two props managed to bodge a pass a few metres from the line. There was also the line break he was clean through bar the trip from Russell that led to the yellow card.

Considering Robson's woeful form the 6N there would have been no rush to being him on had we not lost both flyhalfs. He actually played better at stand off than he has at scrum half so far.

I try to judge it on the actual play and choices. He was bad.

by Armchairexpert Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:18 pm

The assumption that we will see an introduction of new blood in the summer has always been based on senior England players being away on Lions duty. I can’t see too many being involved there

by TJ Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:20 pm

What about this?
https://twitter.com/MattInc/status/1373343132868296704?s=20

by Mr Bounce Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:21 pm

The summer will be very interesting to see.

Any of the "old guard" from this 6 nations needs to be rested, some permanently. Billy was so far from last week's form it was painful to watch. Dombrandt or Simmonds HAVE to start in the summer. Youngs needs a break, Mako looked tired and past it, and his scrummaging was a joke. Furlong had him for breakfast.

I think the only player to come out with any plaudits for me today was Curry. Never gave up.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:22 pm

TJ wrote:What about this?
https://twitter.com/MattInc/status/1373343132868296704?s=20

Not going to be cited in my view. 6 and half a dozen.

Saw one that should have been citrwd form Wales actually but I don't have the link. Sinckler grabbing Jones knob in a ruck.

by westisbest Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:26 pm

TJ wrote:What about this?
https://twitter.com/MattInc/status/1373343132868296704?s=20

Am sure that will be looked at. Not good.

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:28 pm

westisbest wrote:Welcome to BS4

https://twitter.com/mattinc/status/1373343132868296704?s=24

"Ireland are such a dirty side"
-Cyril

Whistle

by theslosty Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:28 pm

I totally understand England fans being angry at their own team but this feels a bit like 2018 to me, I expect it'll be a blip rather than the long term mean. They're a good side that's played poorly, I also have a feeling this 6N wasn't just as important for England as it was for some of the other sides and that's possibly been reflected in the performances. I was very pleased with how Ireland played particularly in the first half but England really didn't help themselves as the game wore on. The ill discipline is something they must sort out as it's been a longer running theme in the Jones era - I think he's been happy to concede a couple of extra penalties in return for an advantage in the tackle and at the breakdown but the balance has surely been lost recently.

I will add however the same comment I made to Scotland fans last week - Ireland are probably the most disciplined side in the world in terms of penalty count and often leave the opposition side's fans fuming at the referee and their own sloppiness.

by Yoda Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:36 pm

Well sorry Ireland fans, we brought precisely nothing today and probably bored you as much as us today. What I don't understand is why Johnny sexton kicked penalties when they could have heaped more misery on us. We escaped an absolute slaughter there.

We've become too easy to ref as we make obvious blunders when the pressure is on. Hard to pick out any positives out of the tournament or the last year in fact. Tom curry could be that one Ray of light - captain in waiting? The only one who looks like he's bothered at the moment and left to fight out alone today.

Enjoy the beers tonight my celtic friends

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:38 pm

Sexton has only missed one kick in the whole tournament I think. Probably first choice 10 for the Lions at this stage

by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:40 pm

Yoda wrote:Well sorry Ireland fans, we brought precisely nothing today and probably bored you as much as us today. What I don't understand is why Johnny sexton kicked penalties when they could have heaped more misery on us. We escaped an absolute slaughter there.

We've become too easy to ref as we make obvious blunders when the pressure is on. Hard to pick out any positives out of the tournament or the last year in fact. Tom curry could be that one Ray of light - captain in waiting? The only one who looks like he's bothered at the moment and left to fight out alone today.

Enjoy the beers tonight my celtic friends

For me when you have a decent lead its fair enough to chip away with penalties as they seal the deal without much effort. It was about ensuring the win as England have shown they are good at chasing leads.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 11:10 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g

Thats not mitigation.

If you are sensible it is.

If you want mitigation you must be in a position to make a legal tackle. Vunipola's height doesn't drop just before contact there's more than enough time for Aki to adjust. In fact Ali accelerates up and into the contact. That means there's both force and he's never putting himself in a position to make a legal tackle.

The height of the ball carrier matters very little, Manu got sent off last season even though North dropped right in front of him and Manu was about 6 inches off the floor when contact us made.

Ali's got to bend at the waist and clearly display an attempt to lower his height. His back his straight.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 11:14 pm

westisbest wrote:
TJ wrote:What about this?
https://twitter.com/MattInc/status/1373343132868296704?s=20

Am sure that will be looked at. Not good.

Possibly for the pair of them. Sextons hand is clasped over Genge's face around the eye area at the start there before he goes with the elbow. Ellis enjoys being a wind up merchant and the physical side of rugby but he's not stupid he doesn't throw punches or get caught up in stuff like that ordinarily. Be interested to know what Sexton did or said to spark him off because it's not a normal Ellis reaction.

by Northgrill Sat 20 Mar 2021, 11:26 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
westisbest wrote:
TJ wrote:What about this?
https://twitter.com/MattInc/status/1373343132868296704?s=20

Am sure that will be looked at. Not good.

Possibly for the pair of them. Sextons hand is clasped over Genge's face around the eye area at the start there before he goes with the elbow. Ellis enjoys being a wind up merchant and the physical side of rugby but he's not stupid he doesn't throw punches or get caught up in stuff like that ordinarily. Be interested to know what Sexton did or said to spark him off because it's not a normal Ellis reaction.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 21 Mar 2021, 7:00 am

theslosty wrote:I totally understand England fans being angry at their own team but this feels a bit like 2018 to me, I expect it'll be a blip rather than the long term mean. They're a good side that's played poorly, I also have a feeling this 6N wasn't just as important for England as it was for some of the other sides and that's possibly been reflected in the performances. I was very pleased with how Ireland played particularly in the first half but England really didn't help themselves as the game wore on. The ill discipline is something they must sort out as it's been a longer running theme in the Jones era - I think he's been happy to concede a couple of extra penalties in return for an advantage in the tackle and at the breakdown but the balance has surely been lost recently.

I will add however the same comment I made to Scotland fans last week - Ireland are probably the most disciplined side in the world in terms of penalty count and often leave the opposition side's fans fuming at the referee and their own sloppiness.

For all of France’s joie de vivre they are the team that have given away least penalties this competition.

by mountain man Sun 21 Mar 2021, 7:37 am

Right, well where to start?
Firstly Ireland excellent and thoroughly deserved win.

England, frankly diabolical. After last week when all team were good this was I'm afraid reverted back to type. Ill discipline, no plan B (was there a plan A?) and aimless, inaccurate kicking.
It was OBVIOUS the box kick wasn't working and Ireland could cope easily with it so why persist?
Several players looked unfit - both Vuinipolas and in Billys case he just looked uninterested. Mako, nothing in loose and poor in scrum just like I thought last week.
I did think when Malins pulled out and Daly back to 15, uh-oh but he actually played OK, not good but at times OK.
Youngs back to his ineffective and slow form. Ford, Farrell did nothing. Johnny Hill when he came on? He's just not an international class lock! Wilson? Out muscled and out played by Irish back row.
The following players should be dropped, told thanks very much but that's it. Youngs, Billy, Mako, Ford, Farrell(yep), Hill, Wilson. There are much better players available.
These need a reset/rest/whatever : George, Genge, May, Daly. Lawrence I'm not sure he's good enough, had his chance yesterday but pretty ineffective.
The only players over 6N to emerge with any credit were Itoje, Curry, Watson and LCD. Sinkler was OK as did Ewels, not great but OK.

How we missed Manu, Underhill, Lawes, Nowell, Launchbury but England have more than enough International class players, they are just not being selected.

As for Jones, the wizard of Oz has been revealed to be a small man behind a curtain. The RFU won't sack him as be too expensive and who's good enough to replace him who'd want job? Bit of a poisoned chalice it seems.

Still, there's always next year...

by majesticimperialman Sun 21 Mar 2021, 8:05 am

If the one thing England learnt from yesterday is we (England) Cannot rely on Ford and Farrell all the time. We need a replacement 10 on the bench. Their should be room for Marcus Smith or Jacob Umanga.

Overall England do need a "BIG RETHINK" of who is in on form and who is in as coach's favourites.

England have gone from champs to chumps in 3/4 months England finish 5th i think simply not good enough.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 21 Mar 2021, 8:26 am

majesticimperialman wrote:If the one thing England learnt from yesterday is we (England) Cannot rely on Ford and Farrell all the time. We need a replacement 10 on the bench. Their should be room for Marcus Smith or Jacob Umanga.

Overall England do need a "BIG RETHINK" of who is in on form and who is in as coach's favourites.

England have gone from champs to chumps in 3/4 months England finish 5th i think simply not good enough.

To be fair how often do you lose both flyhalfs to injury?

England do need to revamp the squad a bit. The midfield combination doesn't work and two of the back three have been off form. Pack looks tired and the discipline is awful. A bit of fresh blood and the impact of two or three form players might well have helped. The only issue is that we really went into a 6N championship with no idea of form because most of our internationals have barely played pre tournament.

by lostinwales Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:12 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g

Sorry red all day. Poopie happens.

by **profitius** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:46 am

majesticimperialman wrote:I think we can say it is game over right now. Ireland deserved winners out played England all over the park today.

Billy Vunapola said in the week England was playing more for pride today. well not much pride to show today.

Bundiaki looks more like a back rower than a centre. just how much weight as he put on?

Funnily enough when the rugby resumed after the covid lockdown Aki was the talk of social media because of all the muscle he's put on. Meanwhile Henshaw slimmed down and he has been back to his best while Aki hasn't reached the heights of previous seasons.

by **profitius** Sun 21 Mar 2021, 9:54 am

Enjoyable match from an Ireland point of view. One big change from the previous encounters was that Ireland moved the ball quicker. In previous encounters it was all one out runners getting smashed by 2 or 3 England players who were waiting for it. Yesterday there was none of that and the attack actually looked good for the most part although it still needs working on.

I thought Ireland got the rub of the green in terms of refs decisions although England looked like they were frustrated and have themselves to blame mostly.

For England I think the Vunipolas are done, especially Billy. He's not half the player he was a few years ago. Mako probably has a few years left in him alright.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 21 Mar 2021, 10:11 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:If the one thing England learnt from yesterday is we (England) Cannot rely on Ford and Farrell all the time. We need a replacement 10 on the bench. Their should be room for Marcus Smith or Jacob Umanga.

Overall England do need a "BIG RETHINK" of who is in on form and who is in as coach's favourites.

England have gone from champs to chumps in 3/4 months England finish 5th i think simply not good enough.

To be fair how often do you lose both flyhalfs to injury?

England do need to revamp the squad a bit. The midfield combination doesn't work and two of the back three have been off form. Pack looks tired and the discipline is awful. A bit of fresh blood and the impact of two or three form players might well have helped. The only issue is that we really went into a 6N championship with no idea of form because most of our internationals have barely played pre tournament.

Did we lose ford to injury? I thought he was replaced by Marchant and Farrell moved to 10.

Have to say that I thought Robson did a better job than Farrell anyway, didn't kick everything away.

Well done Ireland, by far the better side today. I thought you had a very "understanding" referee, but that is not much of an excuse for England's performance.

I would be interested in seeing the referee's performance scores sent in to WR for the England games. They all seem to come out with a presumption about England that does not help them. Whilst with Ireland they do the same but in reverse, squeaky clean.

I have a very silly suspicion that won't go away, did Jones want England to do badly so that not many would tour with the Lions and would be fresh for next year. We all know that the sides contributing the most to the Lions tend to have a disastrous year following the tour. We have had ours 2 years before the RWC, not in year preceding it.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 21 Mar 2021, 10:48 am

If Ford wasn't injured why did we use Robson instead for the HIA period? I'm 90% sure they changed the laws a couple of years back so that any subbed player could return to the field of play if there was a HIA being undertaken. It was to try and help discourage players or coaches trying to just continue because of the possible impact of players out of position.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 21 Mar 2021, 10:49 am

Didn't think Ford was injured. I don't know if on concussion subs whether you can bring subbed players back on though. I thought you could.

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