Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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That's not a high tackle. Heyes initial contact is the chest. If you're going to review it, review it properly. It's a legal tackle.

How did the assistant miss that the LI player knocks the ball out of JVP's hands and into touch before the Joseph break. It was right in front of him FFS. Lineout Tigers.

Anyway, Tigers blow what should have been a straightforward win and only get 4 instead of 5 points. LI manage to snatch 2 league points with a TBP at the death. Probably a fair result as LI were the better side in the first half but didn't really show up in the second. Hassell-Collins is looking like a really classy player, shame Parton went off.

Saints team to play LI tonight:

15 George Furbank
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Piers Francis
11 Tom Collins
10 Dan Biggar
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Nick Auterac
2 Mike Haywood
3 Paul Hill
4 David Ribbans
5 Alex Moon
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Lewis Ludlam (capt)
8 Teimana Harrison

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Alex Waller
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Coles
20 Tom Wood
21 Tom James
22 Rory Hutchinson
23 Ahsee Tuala

Not available due to injury:
Owen Franks (foot), Tommy Freeman (knee), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), Taqele Naiyaravoro (concussion), Ryan Olowofela (ankle), Matt Proctor (calf), Api Ratuniyarawa (shoulder), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).

It's a pity that Freeman is out, LI play just the sort of game he excels at. Should however be a good game.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd say Bath are favourites, saying they should walk this game is a bit strong. They certainly tend to perform as less than the sum of their parts.

Spencer Vs Youngs will be interesting. There's huge pressure on Spencer as Bath play heavily off 10 and having a makeshift 10 won't help him much. Youngs has only played once since his return from international duty and he was very good Vs Connacht. Spencer has been very good all season though.

Steward Vs Watson. Round 2. Watson was left red faced after their last head to head where Steward made him look like the rookie by dominating in the air and the floor as the game wore on. Better conditions should suit Watson and he looked dangerous for England.

The props, all England capped and I'm sure all out to prove a point. That should be a brutal contest.

Weise Vs Mercer the ball carrying 8s go head to head. I'm expecting lots of big carries from both. Weise will need to keep his discipline and Mercer will need to front up physically for this one.

Should win, on paper. That's what I was suggesting, Bath rarely play as the names would suggest, such a strange club.

As a neutral, I would probably only take Ford from the Tigers XV v the Bath lineup. Saying that, I'm going for a Tigers win by 6.

Yes individually Bath's players are very impressive. I'd argue Genge, T Youngs, Weise and Ford are better than their opposite numbers. There are some other close calls. I'm hoping for a ding dong battle with your suggested result.

Falcons v Bristol

15 Tom Penny
14 Cooper Vuna
13 George Wacokecoke
12 Pete Lucock
11 Ben Stevenson
10 Toby Flood
9 Michael Young

1 Trevor Davison
2 George McGuigan
3 Logovi’i Mulipola
4 Greg Peterson
5 Sean Robinson
6 Will Welch
7 Mark Wilson (captain)
8 Callum Chick

Replacements

16 Jamie Blamire
17 Adam Brocklebank
18 Rodney Ah You
19 Marco Fuser
20 Philip van der Walt
21 Louis Schreuder
22 Brett Connon
23 Gary Graham

My goodness. Those Saints look so good. I am completely unbiased, of course.

Mitchell could be the one to fill the void at 9 for England. He’s looked pretty good in recent weeks.

Saints played virtually the whole game at real pace. Real gut-sucking stuff which is tough to maintain. Was a great watch. But not just a back's game. The pack was tough as nails, too.
Mitchell's play can still be a bit slow, but he is really improving now. Sleightholme, well, all he does is score tries.....

Before the game Kay talked about the importance of stopping Saints big ball carries in the forwards getting over the gain line. Stop them and the backs have no room to play. LI failed to do that and Saints ran riot.

Mikey, Mitchell is one of three I hope we look at this summer as the understudy to Ben Youngs. Benny has certainly lacked an real competition for a while.

Given the players missing LI did better than I expected - happy with a TBP given they also blew several other try-scoring opportunities right down to the last play. In previous years they would have completely folded. OHC continues to impress. Loader and Parton not too shabby either.

Both LI wings are real players. Not sure I understand why LI chose to rest so many big time players. But great for Saints. Grudge match coming up next.....

Exeter v Wasps great contest.
10-13 Bassett scores charging down Hogg.
Exeter against the wind so could be a tough second half. LCD outstanding but Wasps should really be further ahead.

doctor_grey wrote:Both LI wings are real players.  Not sure I understand why LI chose to rest so many big time players.   But great for Saints.  Grudge match coming up next.....

Not sure how many were rested versus injuries/ban - Creevy is the only one I can think of that was likely (hopefully) only rested ... Mafi, SOB, TBC, Rona? recent injuries/HIA protocol - WGC ban - Coleman, Naholo have been out for ages. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head

Heaf wrote:Given the players missing LI did better than I expected - happy with a TBP given they also blew several other try-scoring opportunities right down to the last play.  In previous years they would have completely folded.  OHC continues to impress.  Loader and Parton not too shabby either.

Yeah, OHC and Loader are two very impressive wingers we have.

Late to this match, but Fekitoa hasn’t had a great 10 minutes

mikey_dragon wrote:Late to this match, but Fekitoa hasn’t had a great 10 minutes

He didn't have a great first 50 minutes either. Wasps made a couple of errors which led to Exe tries. Now chasing the game.

And now Nowell is one for the first time in ages. Hopefully does well.

Yeah Exeter have looked impressive. Wasps have struggled.

Was close in the 1st half, but Exe simply ramped up the pressure in the 2nd, forced errors, and simply ground Wasps off the park. Especially when Launchbury went off. Exe are so incredibly tough.

Sale managed to win 25-22 vs Gloucs despite losing their 10 to a red card after 24 minutes. Sounds like an interesting game.

lostinwales wrote:Sale managed to win 25-22 vs Gloucs despite losing their 10 to a red card after 24 minutes. Sounds like an interesting game.

Not entirely surprising as Glaws are great at finding a way to lose.

Falcons knobble Sheedy with a late no arms hit and then Earl gifts Falcons an intercept try in his own 22 whilst Falcons are down to 14. Bristol were on top pre injury to Sheedy.

Bristol rally and from 10 nil down pull the tiring Falcons defence apart scoring 19 points for a 19-10 half time score. Could be a long second half for Falcons.

Something wrong with the laws when a player commits foul play resulting in the opposing player having to go off but they can return after 10 mins - should be a YC and then forced substitution ...

Just saw the post-match interview with Jerry Flannery after Quins big win. He almost sounded like he came from a funeral. Maybe that attitude, keeping their head down and focusing on what needs to improve, is helping Quins develop. They are an entertaining group with ball in hand.

Beaten again....the claws are out for Dean now....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Beaten again....the claws are out for Dean now....

He might be done. How long has he been at Falcons now?

Have to admit, those scores put up by Exe and Quins look pretty incredible. Including Bristol in the mix, which ever team qualifies as the fourth team in the playoffs is not going to be too happy....

doctor_grey wrote:Have to admit, those scores put up by Exe and Quins look pretty incredible.  Including Bristol in the mix, which ever team qualifies as the fourth team in the playoffs is not going to be too happy....

I watched a bit of the Quins game and it looked like Quins were playing a second team. Worcester were awful and not at it. Might have been beneficial for them to get relegated so they could rebuild a bit.

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Beaten again....the claws are out for Dean now....

He might be done.  How long has he been at Falcons now?  

10 years.
Lots of fans now saying the lack of budget is irrelevant as we do have good players...but we are awful and predictable...coaching is the problem...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Beaten again....the claws are out for Dean now....

He might be done.  How long has he been at Falcons now?  

10 years.
Lots of fans now saying the lack of budget is irrelevant as we do have good players...but we are awful and predictable...coaching is the problem...

Coaching isn't the only problem. Recruitment isn't great either or rather cap management given you are over stocked in the backrow and also with not good enough front row. It certainly seems time for a shake up at Falcons. 10 years is a long time to keep pushing things forward and reinventing the team. Not many leadership structures last that long.

When's Dean's contract up for renewal and who would you get instead are the problematic questions.

Bath win by a point after some fairly generous pens towards the end. Entertaining game with both sides throwing it about.

The Bath scrum took an absolute pasting. A French ref and Bath would have been looking at a yellow card, not a single decision against Tigers at scrum time. First half was Bath's attacking power mainly coming up just short. Second half was Bath holding on and getting some quite frankly lucky penalties that let them off the hook or provided the position to score the winning try.

Tigers will rue the couple of 22 visits in the second half they didn't score points. The introduction of Wigglesworth on 52ish minutes certainly hurt us. Ben Youngs was comfortably playing Spencer off the park prior to that with Spencer making some very odd choices.

Well its a tale certainly.

Enjoyed the Bath Leicester game as a neutral.
Great kick on the wrong side for Spencer to win the game.
Wiese has been a great signing for Tigers but that was a dumb penalty to give away at the end & proved costly.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Beaten again....the claws are out for Dean now....

He might be done.  How long has he been at Falcons now?  

10 years.
Lots of fans now saying the lack of budget is irrelevant as we do have good players...but we are awful and predictable...coaching is the problem...

Coaching isn't the only problem. Recruitment isn't great either or rather cap management given you are over stocked in the backrow and also with not good enough front row. It certainly seems time for a shake up at Falcons. 10 years is a long time to keep pushing things forward and reinventing the team. Not many leadership structures last that long.

When's Dean's contract up for renewal and who would you get instead are the problematic questions.

Your right...recruitment strategy is an issue aswell...

I have no idea who we would get, but someone a little forward thinking who will use the academy well to support the low budget...and actually try to play a more open and intelligent attack.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Enjoyed the Bath Leicester game as a neutral.
Great kick on the wrong side for Spencer to win the game.
Wiese has been a great signing for Tigers but that was a dumb penalty to give away at the end & proved costly.

I was more annoyed with Heyes for the shove on Mercer that started it. Just didn't need to do that. Weise just split up the two parties a little too physically. Pearce had lost control of that incident and so pinged Weise though he should have penalised one of the other two before it got that far. Go back a few years (particularly in Bath Vs Tigers games) and that was akin to giving someone a cuddle.

Tigers needed some bite to their forward pack. They needed a bit of nasty. Weise gives it. He's a rough diamond, he wasn't fancied as a youngster as he was a late developer from an unfashionable school. No age grade representation. If he was the finished article we wouldn't be able to afford him. He's just got to temper that aggression a little because refs are looking for him and he's very clumsy and physical in defence. A red and two yellows this season none of which you'd complain about. If the price of getting some of the nasty back is a penalty here or there I can live with that. Weise is also working on his English so I'm not sure how well he comes across to referees which might not help things.

So is it confirmed that the league will be ringfenced for the next 3 years after this and Ealing and Saracens are being promoted. Ealing having to pay 20m to join.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9463677/Premiership-relegation-set-suspended-2024-25-season.html

Makes sense given the vast majority of the Championship would turn down promotion. From that Daily Heil article it says the decision is to be made in June so will be interesting to see if membership will be reviewed after that time and on an ongoing basis. You'd suspect they want to leave some wriggle room should a club secure big private investment etc and look to be on the up. For me with the expansion they should be looking at agreeing some rules around maximum participation time for individual players. When the league came back and this was in place with midweek games overall I really enjoyed it and it was offering a lot more time to promising youngsters who took their chance and pushed on.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Makes sense given the vast majority of the Championship would turn down promotion. From that Daily Heil article it says the decision is to be made in June so will be interesting to see if membership will be reviewed after that time and on an ongoing basis. You'd suspect they want to leave some wriggle room should a club secure big private investment etc and look to be on the up. For me with the expansion they should be looking at agreeing some rules around maximum participation time for individual players. When the league came back and this was in place with midweek games overall I really enjoyed it and it was offering a lot more time to promising youngsters who took their chance and pushed on.

I absolutely couldn't agree more.

I don't really understand promoting Ealing, they look like they play at a sports centre. Even if the plan is to move, they seemed to average about 700/800 fans (when that was a thing), that just doesn't seem very sustainable and it feels similar to the London Welsh situation to me.

You'd also have to question if there is even any room for them to grow, if they stay local. We've already got Quins and Irish who play in relatively close proximity in west London.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but the situation seems to have a depressing inevitability about it. Spend two/ three years skimming a long the bottom of the league and eventually either withdraw or go bust.

Ealing are being promoted because their wealthy owner would likely take everyone to court and waste lots of time and money otherwise.

Sounds as murky as the Government 'meanwhile, Premiership Rugby announced the shock resignation of Darren Childs as chief executive on Wednesday only 20 months into the job. Childs, an unpopular figure within the league, will join CVC – the private equity firm that owns a 27% stake in the Premiership, where he joins his predecessor Mark McCafferty. It is understood senior figures at Premiership Rugby were not informed of Childs’s decision until moments before it was announced and his departure ends a turbulent tenure that has included the Saracens salary cap scandal and the fallout from the pandemic. PRL will reveal succession plans in due course with Nigel Melville, recently appointed executive chairman, among the favourites.'

From the guardian

Everything in Rugby as we come out of Covid with new laws (or interpretations), new league structures, and so on is murky, and with our sport's usual lack of vision or leadership.

Except:
Saints gird themselves for crossing the DMZ and go to Pyongyang, oops, I mean Leicester. Now this is Rugby, boys and girls. Old style beat them sideways Rugby. Forget Eddie and England, or Gatland and his Lions. THIS is good old fashioned Rugby. With 80%+ of the Saints team coming through our academy, they have been born and bred with the import of that the trip into an evil foreign land. The future of the Empire is at stake. Just win, baby, by any means possible (or we may be back to wearing Kinky Boots).

So let it be written, so let it be done.

If Tigers name the same starting 15 as last weekend they'll have 9 of the starting 15 from the academy. Not quite at Stains representation level but it'll be those imbued with the pure rugbyness that comes from Oval Park not the dark lands of Northamptonshire, the land of the speed camera. We look forward to welcoming those backwards folk to the best club rugby stadium in the country even if it is sadly empty.

We could very much do with a win, both in terms of bragging rights over Northampton who managed to have a Covid outbreak and avoid playing us whilst in sketchy form earlier this season. A win could help us towards top 6 and whilst we aren't ready (good enough) for the playoffs, qualifying for the premier European competition could still be achievable.

TIGERS XV
[club appearances in brackets]

15 Freddie Steward [28]

14 Kobus Van Wyk [10]

13 Matt Scott [19]

12 Dan Kelly [14]

11 Kini Murimurivalu [15]

10 George Ford [101]

9 Ben Youngs [256]

1 Ellis Genge [82]

2 Tom Youngs [209] (c)

3 Dan Cole [257]

4 Harry Wells [117]

5 Calum Green [55]

6 Hanro Liebenberg [28]

7 Luke Wallace [15]

8 Jasper Wiese [12]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Charlie Clare [27]

17 Luan de Bruin [13]

18 Joe Heyes [63]

19 Tomás Lavanini [31]

20 Cyle Brink [12]

21 Jack Van Poortvliet [17]

22 Zack Henry [20]

23 Nemani Nadolo [9]

Northampton Saints: 15 George Furbank, 14 Matt Proctor, 13 Rory Hutchinson, 12 Piers Francis, 11 Ollie Sleightholme, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Alex Mitchell; 1 Alex Waller (cc), 2 Sam Matavesi, 3 Ehren Painter, 4 David Ribbans, 5 Alex Moon, 6 Tom Wood, 7 Lewis Ludlam (cc), 8 Teimana Harrison

Replacements: 16 Mike Haywood, 17 Nick Auterac, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Alex Coles, 20 Shaun Adendorff, 21 Tom James, 22 Ahsee Tuala, 23 Tommy Freeman

Squads for the big game. I make that 7(?) Homegrown in the starting XV for Saints and 7 for Tigers both with additional in the bench.

Looks like it should be a cracker. Good to see Nadolo and Brink for enough for the bench and both of Reffell and Moroni getting a week off before the semi final next week.

Falcons for trip to Glos, finally young Obonna gets a run out!

Strong team...

15 Tom Penny
14 George Wacokecoke
13 Matias Orlando
12 Luther Burrell
11 Chidera Obonna
10 Brett Connon
9 Michael Young (captain)

1 Trevor Davison
2 George McGuigan
3 Logovi’i Mulipola
4 Greg Peterson
5 Sean Robinson
6 Will Welch
7 Gary Graham
8 Callum Chick

Replacements

16 Jamie Blamire
17 Adam Brocklebank
18 Rodney Ah You
19 Marco Fuser
20 Philip van der Walt
21 Louis Schreuder
22 Toby Flood
23 Pete Lucock

Being able to rest Reffell and Moroni but still field strong a back row and centre partnership shows Tigers are in a much better position now. Nowhere near playoff contenders again but mid table and having a shot at Champions Cup qualification with a late push is a good place to be given what Borthwick inherited.

Youngs vs Mitchell, Ford vs Biggar and Steward vs Furbank are fun match ups.

I'd expect Tigers to have the upper hand in the scrum but Genge has underwhelmed me this season to be honest so hopefully he can get the edge against Painter.

I rate Ribbans and Moon highly so slight concerns about the lock match ups but Wells and Green have been solid for Tigers since Borthwick has taken over the lineout coaching. I still consider them as ideally 3rd and 4th choice locks if Tigers are to push beyond mid table but once again it's an area where Tigers are getting more out of the players available this season. Liebenberg's consistent excellence and set-piece work from blindside definitely helps our locks out I think.

Saints fans - Is Prince Harry injured again or just struggling to get game time with Furbank and Freeman playing well?

To be fair to Genge he had Will Stuart in his pocket come scrum time last weekend.

formerly known as Sam wrote:If Tigers name the same starting 15 as last weekend they'll have 9 of the starting 15 from the academy. Not quite at Stains representation level but it'll be those imbued with the pure rugbyness that comes from Oval Park not the dark lands of Northamptonshire, the land of the speed camera. We look forward to welcoming those backwards folk to the best club rugby stadium in the country even if it is sadly empty.

We could very much do with a win, both in terms of bragging rights over Northampton who managed to have a Covid outbreak and avoid playing us whilst in sketchy form earlier this season. A win could help us towards top 6 and whilst we aren't ready (good enough) for the playoffs, qualifying for the premier European competition could still be achievable.

Hey, we have the finest speed cameras in the Rose of Shires!  Except for that one &$@!&$ one just over the hill on the A508.  I guess it’s kind of a border toll crossing from North Korea into Northampton’s green and verdant lands.  I have paid that toll more than once....

This game should be fun, but absolutely needs fans in the stands to bring out the best. Let’s hope for a cracker!

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:If Tigers name the same starting 15 as last weekend they'll have 9 of the starting 15 from the academy. Not quite at Stains representation level but it'll be those imbued with the pure rugbyness that comes from Oval Park not the dark lands of Northamptonshire, the land of the speed camera. We look forward to welcoming those backwards folk to the best club rugby stadium in the country even if it is sadly empty.

We could very much do with a win, both in terms of bragging rights over Northampton who managed to have a Covid outbreak and avoid playing us whilst in sketchy form earlier this season. A win could help us towards top 6 and whilst we aren't ready (good enough) for the playoffs, qualifying for the premier European competition could still be achievable.

Hey, we have the finest speed cameras in the Rose of Shires!  Except for that one &$@!&$ one just over the hill on the A508.  I guess it’s kind of a border toll crossing from North Korea into Northampton’s green and verdant lands.  I have paid that toll more than once....

This game should be fun, but absolutely needs fans in the stands to bring out the best.  Let’s hope for a cracker!

I just remember working in Leicester, I'm from the North of the county and being instructed to going to a client just over the border. A team member from the south of the county provided the warning "you'll know where the speed cameras start because it'll say Welcome to Northamptonshire on a sign just before". Hence why I was ticket free.

Agreed, fans in the stadium make this fixture. The noise is always turned right up, so is the pi$$ taking and drinks flow. Hopefully again soon. One person in the stadium will be Eddie I'd assume as there's plenty of English talent on display and in varying levels of experience. I wonder if Warren will have it on the TV as he mulls over his final flyhalf spot as well.

That’s very funny and also true about the welcome to Northamptonshire sign. You’re very welcome and now pay us money.

I just had a funny thought. With all the games that we see with either Eddie Jones or Warren Gallant watching alone in the stands, they never do seem to be at the same game at the same time. I wonder if that’s by design.  After a while I would think they would overlap if by accident for no other reason.

Saints team announced:

15 George Furbank
14 Matt Proctor
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Piers Francis
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Dan Biggar
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller (co-capt)
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Ehren Painter
4 David Ribbans
5 Alex Moon
6 Tom Wood
7 Lewis Ludlam (co-capt)
8 Teimana Harrison

Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Nick Auterac
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Coles
20 Shaun Adendorff
21 Tom James
22 Ahsee Tuala
23 Tommy Freeman

Not available due to injury:
Owen Franks (foot), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Nick Isiekwe (pectoral), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), Taqele Naiyaravoro (calf), Ryan Olowofela (ankle), Api Ratuniyarawa (shoulder), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).

Referee: Karl Dickson God help us all
Assistant referees: Wayne Falla and Rob Warburton
No.4: Hamish Smales
TMO: Nigel Carrick

What is it about the Saints players Pecs, both Lawes and Isiekwe out with pectoral injuries

Very strong bench there, all players that like it a bit open, good for the last 20, could have done with Naiyaravoro though. His mere presence opens up space for the others.

I can't quite see Borthwick as Kim Jong-un, but he is relatively new, so he has time to garner some of the local influences become a despot.