Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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That's not a high tackle. Heyes initial contact is the chest. If you're going to review it, review it properly. It's a legal tackle.

How did the assistant miss that the LI player knocks the ball out of JVP's hands and into touch before the Joseph break. It was right in front of him FFS. Lineout Tigers.

Anyway, Tigers blow what should have been a straightforward win and only get 4 instead of 5 points. LI manage to snatch 2 league points with a TBP at the death. Probably a fair result as LI were the better side in the first half but didn't really show up in the second. Hassell-Collins is looking like a really classy player, shame Parton went off.

As the player Tuilagi hit has failed his HIA, then the citing officer might take a closer look at that tackle.

I'm not sure Lynagh is an Int quality winger, decent though.

3 good scrum half performances today in Randall, Care and Uren. It's nice when a scrum half can actually pass a ball and gives good quick service to his 10.....

Rugby Fan wrote:Louis Lynagh had a good game. His father wants him to represent the Wallabies (though he has an English public school accent). He can't do that until he moves to Australia, yet he signed again with Quins in March.

I would find it perversely funny if Michael Lynagh, who was a great Wallaby, AND who lived in London for a long time afterwards, want his son to play for Aus, but ends up with England. Don't know why...

doctor_grey wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Louis Lynagh had a good game. His father wants him to represent the Wallabies (though he has an English public school accent). He can't do that until he moves to Australia, yet he signed again with Quins in March.

I would find it perversely funny if Michael Lynagh, who was a great Wallaby, AND who lived in London for a long time afterwards, want his son to play for Aus, but ends up with England.  Don't know why...

Maybe he will choose Italy, his mum is Italian

Not sure I'd have Tuilagi as a Lions replacement. Whatever he offers in attack, he looks too rusty without the ball.

BigGee wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Louis Lynagh had a good game. His father wants him to represent the Wallabies (though he has an English public school accent). He can't do that until he moves to Australia, yet he signed again with Quins in March.

I would find it perversely funny if Michael Lynagh, who was a great Wallaby, AND who lived in London for a long time afterwards, want his son to play for Aus, but ends up with England.  Don't know why...

Maybe he will choose Italy, his mum is Italian

His younger brother has opted for Australia and moved to the Reds. His dad can get half of what he wants maybe.

Rugby Fan wrote:Not sure I'd have Tuilagi as a Lions replacement. Whatever he offers in attack, he looks too rusty without the ball.

Extremely rusty.

What a peculiar pair of games.

All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

I think that is that in this one

Chiefs look the business today, they have had by far the easier semi final

Unbelievable. This is a heck of a match.

Today is such an incredible advert for Rugby.

2 fantastic games.....very different, but both great.

Sale did not roll over did they?

Still Exeter always looked in control and are going to take some beating in the final, especially when you think just how deep Quins had to go today.

Still Quins look like a team who never say die now, so hopefully a great game next weekend!

JVP just put in a man of the match performance for England U20's. Looks good. Very assured.

Finally some hope for scrum half

doctor_grey wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:The winner of Exeter vs Sale must now be a hot favourite for the title.

I agree they might be favourites, but there has got to be a little worry creeping in.  That comeback by Quins was something to keep opposing coaches up at night.  

Exeter are going to go into the game knowing that they need to be more than 23 points up at half time to be safe ..

Flipping heck. Just finished watching the Bristol game. Wow. Dont think I've seen a team unravel to that extent before as the other side just grew.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Flipping heck. Just finished watching the Bristol game. Wow. Dont think I've seen a team unravel to that extent before as the other side just grew.

I still don't think it was really possible to pick a MOTM for Quins.  Such an incredible team effort.  Bristol, to their credit had chances down deep, but somehow Quins kept them out and they can counter-attack.  Was just a great game to watch.  

Question:  What do you think of the extra time format?  I prefer sudden death (first to score), but this game was so good almost didn't want it to end. And it still went down to the wire anyway.  

Then I went out and played a Rugby friendly this afternoon (3:00pm k/o my time).  And the Rugby gods decided the second half was played in a near monsoon.  Warm weather, rain like machine gun fire.  Best day possible!  This is why I am too dumb to stop playing....

lostinwales wrote:JVP just put in a man of the match performance for England U20's. Looks good. Very assured.

Finally some hope for scrum half

Raffi Quirke was great when he came on for Sale also. Quick around the fringes, great service and a good boot. He really looks the part and he's only 19!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:JVP just put in a man of the match performance for England U20's. Looks good. Very assured.

Finally some hope for scrum half

Raffi Quirke was great when he came on for Sale also. Quick around the fringes, great service and a good boot. He really looks the part and he's only 19!

Quirke and JVP are in the same age group, JVP turned 20 a month ago. Serious talent at 9 on that she group and they are both showing so much class early doors they could be competing for the England shirt for a decade. Nice to see both can increase the tempo in attack but kick well tactically. JVP is very much considered to be Youngs successor at Tigers. Quirke should be joining up with the under 20s after the final. Rotating JVP and Quirke, luxury for England age grade.

Flyhalf options coming through aren't bad either but options are centre are a lot thinner. Dan Lancaster a 10/12 played IC Bailey of Bath played 15 and Finn Smith of Wuss was at 10. All three have played senior rugby this season (though Lancaster is still at Yorkshire/Leeds) and George Barton of Glaws I think is either injured or just too old. Good flyhalf options.

The two 9's look the best we've had for a long time.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The two 9's look the best we've had for a long time.

And would look so damn good if they moved to Northampton instead of playing in the outer reaches of civilisation

I haven't seen too many extra time rugby games doc but a bit like in football and their silver and golden goals for me it makes teams a bit too defensive and just look for the drop goal or eek a penalty. Particularly liked the tries in normal time rule which meant Bristol had to go out to win definitively. For me it was perfect to set it up for another exciting 20 mins.

doctor_grey wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The two 9's look the best we've had for a long time.

And would look so damn good if they moved to Northampton instead of playing in the outer reaches of civilisation

If civilisation means speed cameras then Northamptonshire is well stocked otherwise I suspect they are happier where they are. 

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The two 9's look the best we've had for a long time.

And would look so damn good if they moved to Northampton instead of playing in the outer reaches of civilisation

If civilisation means speed cameras then Northamptonshire is well stocked otherwise I suspect they are happier where they are. 

Well you have to be good at something, and Northamptonshire is good for kinky boots and speed cameras. Except for those freakin' annoying ones on the A508 - someone needs to bite the bullet and run the damn things down. Then we can steal some talent.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I haven't seen too many extra time rugby games doc but a bit like in football and their silver and golden goals for me it makes teams a bit too defensive and just look for the drop goal or eek a penalty. Particularly liked the tries in normal time rule which meant Bristol had to go out to win definitively.  For me it was perfect to set it up for another exciting 20 mins.

To be fair, the extra time was edge of the seat stuff and this is very uncommon. But to me, 4 pens/drop goals still equals 2 tries and a conversion. I would really prefer to see a game, especially a playoff game, decided by points scored in a game on the pitch.

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I haven't seen too many extra time rugby games doc but a bit like in football and their silver and golden goals for me it makes teams a bit too defensive and just look for the drop goal or eek a penalty. Particularly liked the tries in normal time rule which meant Bristol had to go out to win definitively.  For me it was perfect to set it up for another exciting 20 mins.

To be fair, the extra time was edge of the seat stuff and this is very uncommon.  But to me, 4 pens/drop goals still equals 2 tries and a conversion.  I would really prefer to see a game, especially a playoff game, decided by points scored in a game on the pitch.  

Instinctively I agree but the situation with Bristol being down to 13 men due to injuries at the very end does sum up the fact that at some point a game of rugby does just need to end. I've never been a big fan of the penalty shootouts in rugby and more than 20 minutes of extra time at the end of an 80 minute game just seems silly. As such I think the tries scored is a OK solution to an unusual problem.

I'd love to see an analysis done between the 2003 RWC final and that semi to see the difference in number of contact situations over the 100 minutes. The amount of carries, tackles, rucks, etc these days is through the roof and Bristol getting 2 injuries having emptied their bench (Thacker was already filling in the back row anyway when he got injured) made the last few minutes look a bit like last man standing.

Quins were of course shrewd to just fan out and absorb the pressure once they were two men up. You could hear Dombrandt on the ref mic at one point screaming, "just let them play", after someone tried to compete for a 50/50 ruck turnover. It's smart play, just fan out and don't give a penalty, if Tigers were in the same position and did anything different I'd have been apoplectic. It's also not the best way for extra time to end though when one side has a 2 man disadvantage through no fault of their discipline.

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Rugby Fan wrote:Not sure I'd have Tuilagi as a Lions replacement. Whatever he offers in attack, he looks too rusty without the ball.

That's just how Gatland likes 'em, though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

His basics are just so good that he settles in again so quickly. Nowell must be up there with the best defensive back three players in the game.

England have missed him a lot. When the backline was functioning well with everyone fit he was second choice behind May, Watson and Daly. When your teams struggling a bit more Nowell's the type of player you want in the trenches though. Makes yards like a forward around the fringes, finishes as well as most top wingers from close range and a rock in defence. Such a valuable player.

The Times Ruck Podcast journos say they are all heading to cover the Lions match against Japan, when the Premiership Final looks like an even bigger draw after those semi-finals.

The Premiership got some blowback when they were annoyed about the Lions scheduling a match to clash with their final. Now we are here, their complaint seems to have a lot of merit.

king_carlos wrote:

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

His basics are just so good that he settles in again so quickly. Nowell must be up there with the best defensive back three players in the game.

England have missed him a lot. When the backline was functioning well with everyone fit he was second choice behind May, Watson and Daly. When your teams struggling a bit more Nowell's the type of player you want in the trenches though. Makes yards like a forward around the fringes, finishes as well as most top wingers from close range and a rock in defence. Such a valuable player.

I'd like to see him at 15 one day - like an improved version of Brown. I guess they'd go Watson at 15 with May and Nowell on the flanks and Daly (if he's still around) as a super sub

Rugby Fan wrote:The Times Ruck Podcast journos say they are all heading to cover the Lions match against Japan, when the Premiership Final looks like an even bigger draw after those semi-finals.

The Premiership got some blowback when they were annoyed about the Lions scheduling a match to clash with their final. Now we are here, their complaint seems to have a lot of merit.

It was a proper d!ckhead move by the Lions to organise the Japan friendly the way the did. Extremely disrespectful to the English game the response afterwards was arrogant and unrepentant.

If the final is as good as the semis then no one will be talking about the Lions game the day after. Normally knock out rugby is tight with one team easing the other out over the course of 80 mins. Not so on Saturday, two very good games. Quins Vs Bristol was an absolute classic.

lostinwales wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

His basics are just so good that he settles in again so quickly. Nowell must be up there with the best defensive back three players in the game.

England have missed him a lot. When the backline was functioning well with everyone fit he was second choice behind May, Watson and Daly. When your teams struggling a bit more Nowell's the type of player you want in the trenches though. Makes yards like a forward around the fringes, finishes as well as most top wingers from close range and a rock in defence. Such a valuable player.

I'd like to see him at 15 one day - like an improved version of Brown. I guess they'd go Watson at 15 with May and Nowell on the flanks and Daly (if he's still around) as a super sub

Watson's only played fullback 4 times in his England career so I'm not that sure he's viewed as an option there. 3 of the 4 were with Daly on the wing, so when Daly first moved into the back three but wasn't at fullback yet. The 4th was a RWC warm-up against Italy with McConnochie, Francis and Marchant also in the backline. England also lost 2 of those 4 games.

I just don't see Watson as a fullback. He's a world class international winger and a good Premiership fullback. I really don't see what the side would gain from moving Watson but it's a suggestion that regularly comes up with fans and pundits.

As said I'd like to see Nowell at 15 on a trial basis.

It is very difficult. I guess injuries have helped the selection process, and over the next few years age will trim available numbers, but right now we have two exceptional wingers in May and Watson, and a number of guys starting to put pressure on them. You are right that we should not get any further into the trap of playing good guys out of position because we want them on the pitch, but the problem with Nowell is where does he fit in?

king_carlos wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

His basics are just so good that he settles in again so quickly. Nowell must be up there with the best defensive back three players in the game.

England have missed him a lot. When the backline was functioning well with everyone fit he was second choice behind May, Watson and Daly. When your teams struggling a bit more Nowell's the type of player you want in the trenches though. Makes yards like a forward around the fringes, finishes as well as most top wingers from close range and a rock in defence. Such a valuable player.

I'd like to see him at 15 one day - like an improved version of Brown. I guess they'd go Watson at 15 with May and Nowell on the flanks and Daly (if he's still around) as a super sub

Watson's only played fullback 4 times in his England career so I'm not that sure he's viewed as an option there. 3 of the 4 were with Daly on the wing, so when Daly first moved into the back three but wasn't at fullback yet. The 4th was a RWC warm-up against Italy with McConnochie, Francis and Marchant also in the backline. England also lost 2 of those 4 games.

I just don't see Watson as a fullback. He's a world class international winger and a good Premiership fullback. I really don't see what the side would gain from moving Watson but it's a suggestion that regularly comes up with fans and pundits.

I guess it was because the cupboard seemed a bit bare at fullback for a while, let's face it we had an ageing Mike Brown and inexperienced/ unsuited Daly there. Now we've got a number of very decent natural fullbacks coming through. There should even be (shock/horror!) competition for the position. I suspect these calls for Watson to play at 15 will subside when the young lads hit their international straps.

Ah i think Freddie Steward will be making that 15 spot his own very soon, so its all irrelevant.

https://youtu.be/kTbzrzUwSHA

Very good video, released by Harlequins.

Joe Marler is good here. He talks about the match and build-up from around the 30 minute mark in this video. He gets into the match around 38 minutes in.

Cumbrian wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

BigGee wrote:All the talk of rust certainly does not seem to apply to Jack Nowell. Clearly made of stainless steel!

If he was...he wouldnt be injured all the time ....

Fair point

It is amazing how he bounces back though!

His basics are just so good that he settles in again so quickly. Nowell must be up there with the best defensive back three players in the game.

England have missed him a lot. When the backline was functioning well with everyone fit he was second choice behind May, Watson and Daly. When your teams struggling a bit more Nowell's the type of player you want in the trenches though. Makes yards like a forward around the fringes, finishes as well as most top wingers from close range and a rock in defence. Such a valuable player.

I'd like to see him at 15 one day - like an improved version of Brown. I guess they'd go Watson at 15 with May and Nowell on the flanks and Daly (if he's still around) as a super sub

Watson's only played fullback 4 times in his England career so I'm not that sure he's viewed as an option there. 3 of the 4 were with Daly on the wing, so when Daly first moved into the back three but wasn't at fullback yet. The 4th was a RWC warm-up against Italy with McConnochie, Francis and Marchant also in the backline. England also lost 2 of those 4 games.

I just don't see Watson as a fullback. He's a world class international winger and a good Premiership fullback. I really don't see what the side would gain from moving Watson but it's a suggestion that regularly comes up with fans and pundits.

I guess it was because the cupboard seemed a bit bare at fullback for a while, let's face it we had an ageing Mike Brown and inexperienced/ unsuited Daly there.  Now we've got a number of very decent natural fullbacks coming through.  There should even be (shock/horror!) competition for the position.  I suspect these calls for Watson to play at 15 will subside when the young lads hit their international straps.

Putting aside some other nice young promising players, anyone who watched Bristol-Quins saw a great display by Malins. He has already had a call-up, but i would like to see him get a real shot as the starting 15 for an extended period.

I like Malins but for me he's a similar player to Daly at 15 but with a shorter kicking game. His distribution and footwork are lightning, he can definitely act as a second playmaker but I'm not convinced his high ball work and defence are strong enough to be an upgrade on Daly at international level.

Even amidst some terrible England form since the RWC Daly looked excellent at 15 for Sarries prior to their relegation. This season he's been at 13 for them (in my opinion his best position) with an arm chair ride in the Championship.

I think the jump in consistency of kicking from Premiership to international level is really big and fullbacks are tested there as they aren't in club rugby. I'm just not sure that Malins actually offers more than Daly did when performing at 15.

That said Malins has been very good for Bristol and bright for England in his cameos so I hope he takes his chances and proves me wrong. I'd be more than happy if in a years time I'm eating my words about his defence as his attacking play is marvelous.

Similar with Robson. Whilst electric for Wasps I doubt his defence and kicking will hold up at international level and would prefer Randall or Mitchell getting a chance but I'm not going to burst a blood vessel over a player that has performed consistently very well at club level getting some starts even if I'm skeptical.

So apparently there’s a Premiership match or something on tomorrow. Don’t know if anyone has any more details.

HARLEQUINS: 15. Tyrone Green; 14. Louis Lynagh, 13. Joe Marchant, 12. Andre Esterhuizen, 11. Cadan Murley; 10. Marcus Smith, 9. Danny Care; 1. Joe Marler, 2. Scott Baldwin, 3. Wilco Louw, 4. Matt Symons, 5. Stephan Lewies (capt), 6. James Chisholm, 7. Jack Kenningham, 8. Alex Dombrandt. Reps: 16. Joe Gray, 17. Santiago Garcia Botta, 18. Will Collier, 19. Dino Lamb, 20. Tom Lawday, 21. Martin Landajo, 22. Ben Tapuai, 23. Luke Northmore.

EXETER: 15. Jack Nowell; 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13. Henry Slade, 12. Ollie Devoto, 11. Tom O’Flaherty; 10. Joe Simmonds (capt), 9. Jack Maunder; 1. Alec Hepburn, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. Harry Williams, 4. Jonny Gray, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. Jannes Kirsten, 7. Richard Capstick, 8. Sam Simmonds. Reps: 16. Jack Yeandle, 17. Ben Moon, 18. Marcus Street, 19. Sean Lonsdale, 20. Don Armand, 21. Stu Townsend, 22. Harvey Skinner, 23. Stuart Hogg.


Main talking points are Hogg still on the bench. Esterhuizen is back for Quins and Quins have not replacement 10 in the squad so if Smith limps off they are probably stuffed.


Quins will need to attack from the off so it should be a cracking game.

Generally when Harlequins have been playing recently its been a great game. Doubted that they'd win last week and thats carried over to this. Surely Exeter will just squeeze the life out of them and they'll be knackered after extra time. Would be happy to be proved wrong again tbh.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Generally when Harlequins have been playing recently its been a great game. Doubted that they'd win last week and thats carried over to this. Surely Exeter will just squeeze the life out of them and they'll be knackered after extra time. Would be happy to be proved wrong again tbh.

Scintillating attack but patchy defence generally leads to good games. Extra time will have taken it out of them but the coaches should have dealt with that in the week. Quins also managed to rest players before the semi final so they shouldn't be that cream crackered.

So why have Exeter gone with starting a guy just coming back from injury playing out of position instead of, on his day, probably the best FB in Europe?

lostinwales wrote:So why have Exeter gone with starting a guy just coming back from injury playing out of position instead of, on his day, probably the best FB in Europe?

I think we could reasonably have asked that last week, but Nowell was excellent in the semi-final. If Baxter thinks he’s in better form than Hogg, then who are we to argue?

Surely Nowell is a bigger upgrade on Cuthbert at wing, than he is at FB to Hogg!

BamBam wrote:Surely Nowell is a bigger upgrade on Cuthbert at wing, than he is at FB to Hogg!

My thoughts.

Maybe they think Hogg is too focused on the Lions? I don't know but it is a very interesting question. By all accounts Nowell was fantastic and he's a wonderful player to have back involved, you just would have thought there are better ways of fitting both players in.