Next Scotland squad

I know we have a very important match still to be played on Friday, but seeing as I did a good job with my first post as a member (The Scotland 6N thread), I thought I'd start one early for the summer tour :P.

I actually got the idea after reading a status on an Irish Rugby Facebook group (I'm half Irish hence being in the group. I still support Scotland first and foremost, even last Sunday) which asked the following question that I'm about to further down this thread .

I don't think it's been officially confirmed yet but I am about 95% certain that Georgia and Romania was touted as our summer tests.

So bearing that in mind, we know that we will have a lot more new additions added to the squad and potentially even starting the games due to Lions selection.

So the question is this:-

Who would you like to see picked in the squad that hasn't been capped or named in squads before?

I will start by saying: Josh Bayliss and Ben Vellacot.

I'd also like to see more of: Jamie Dobie, Rufus McLean, Byron McGuigan, Scott Steele and Alex Craig, preferably as starters or on the bench.

I was going to add the boy Tuipolotu but tbh, he will need to prove himself at Glasgow before he's even considered for Scotland.


Also, if GT is away on Lions duty, who would coach the team, Mike Blair?

If this tour does go ahead, then it will very much be a development tour, so expect lots of the promising young kids to go and the old stagers to get the summer off.

I would say a big if to whether it actually happens though and there should be a very low threshold to cancel it.

Highland Shaun, you really are a newbie if you want to see more of Barry Mcguigan in a Scotland jersey.

Bit harsh .

It is based on his excellent performance for Sale at the weekend haha.

McGowan, in a different time, would have had a lot more caps. He has proved himself to be a very solid player, not something we could see while he was at Glasgow.

Hard to see him breaking back into the side now, especially with young guns like McLean coming through.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland-ready-to-blood-rufus-mclean-and-jamie-dobie-in-summer-tests-3181393

Sounds like Jamie Dobie, Rufus McLean and Josh Bayliss will make their debut in summer :-). Strangely, the journalist fails to mention that Pierre Schoeman becomes available so he too will likely get his debut.

Regarding opponents: Nothing official yet but options are England, Japan, Georgia, Spain and Romania.

Thoughts :-P

Lions and injuries will have a lot to say.

Of the relatively inexperienced players I am guessing we will see (on the edge)

Rae or McCallum - really lacking for THs behind the top 3
Henderson, Hodgson, Davidson or Hunter-Hill - One of the youngsters should tour and guessing Davidson is currently the favourite
Bayliss - We don't tend to call up players and not give them a chance
Ashman - same logic as Bayliss though harder case due to McInally, Brown, Turner and Cherry

Dobie - Not sure if he still qualifies for u20s, only way he does not tour is to help them out
Vellacott - Moving to Scotland for internationals and Price may be rested. Spare spot competing with Steele and SHC
Thompson or Chamberlain - One may go as the third FH behind Hastings and either VDW or Weir to bench against Romania, USA or whomever

Redpath - Will want to see if his England performance was flash in the pan
Hutchinson - Deserves an opportunity after playing well for Northampton for the last couple of years
McLean - Has bags of potential
Blain - If we take a fifth back 3 player, he probably beats out McGuigan though H Jones may be thought of more as a 15 for this tour

Due to the condensed season, that a few games were cancelled and the high probability that Edinburgh will get pumped out the champs cup this weekend, there will be no need to rest players.

Usually this summer tour would be a development tour but we may go with a lot more Experienced players to give them game time. Now Toonie may like the time to tweak things and develop the team further but he may just decide to play guys simply to stop them getting rusty. We talk about player being knackered but our players, if they don’t go on tour with Gatland and co, could spend the next 5 months twiddling their thumbs.

I know there will be preseason, but after the distribution of covid, to not play a match of rugby for another 5 months could set many players back.

Depends on which experienced players you are thinking of TT

McInally and Brown you have a case. R Gray and Nel are maybe's as we may need to develop other options for the RWC2023. I don't see the need to take Duncan Taylor or B Toolis they are around the fringes of the squad and have young players overtaking them. Price is in the dog house until he learns to get a pass out of the ruck in faster than 2 seconds or take the ball out the back of a struggling scrum quickly.

I think the England game is likely to be an 'A' game and then Georgia, Spain and Romania. If that is the case, frankly, I don't see the point in taking any of the established players and certainly none of the players likely to be over the hill by 2023. I wouldn't bother making any of them capped internationals full stop. Actually, I'm on a roll here. Rugby is a dangerous sport, I do not see one benefit of sending players to play England for the sake of it in an A game, Romania or Spain - full stop. Risking injury for no reason whatsoever.

What I would like to see, depending on other commitments, is a European Cup knockout tournament. With the Six Nations teams and the top division of the Six Nations B (I know it has another name but this will do for now). The Lions teams will have their best players away but it will allow players to enjoy the tournament atmosphere. Crucially it will allow us to see where Italy are in the context of European rugby more widely.

But in all seriousness, what could possibly be the point in sending a squad to play a bunch of Spanish amateurs? The standard will be less than the average game they play, it's giving away caps and any performance will have very little bearing on our wider understanding of where they are. The worst case scenario is someone on either side suffers a serious injury.

By older heads I mean those likely to be at the World Cup.

Hogg and J gray will still be slugging it out for the chiefs do they will likely need a break. However players like maitland, Taylor, Gray snr could still be involved and will need game time. To at least show what they still have let alone to stop rust getting in.

Even though the opposition won’t be the highest quality, players will still need a run out.

tigertattie wrote:By older heads I mean those likely to be at the World Cup.

Hogg and J gray will still be slugging it out for the chiefs do they will likely need a break. However players like maitland, Taylor, Gray snr could still be involved and will need game time. To at least show what they still have let alone to stop rust getting in.  

Even though the opposition won’t be the highest quality, players will still need a run out.

When you say need a run out? Will they actually? In June-July after a couple of really mixed up seasons, I'm not sure a match against Spain or Romania will actually achieve anything.

What would your summer tour squad be Hazel, I oresume your post above is only the starting 23?

Of the youngsters that I have seen (not many in EPL due to only watching highlights on channel 5), I would like to see: Dobie, Thompson, Chapman (David Flatman was very praising of his performance last week), McLean.

Uncapped players I'd like to see: Bayliss (GT hints at it in the above article link), Schoeman (only because he's eligible and we'd like to see how he does in International rugby), Huhter-Hill, Vellacott.

I'd also give Gary Graham another look in just to see if he has improved after his dire performance v Wales.I

Go easy on me by the way, I'm only new lol, I'm sure you peeps will disagree with some of my opinios :-P.

Not sure when this will get uploaded but, check out the YouTube channel, RugbyAnalyst, he is very good . He has 2 videos up just now regarding lions selection, one on test squad and the other on hos first test 23, I'm hoping that in the next few days he will have a Scotland 6N report card video uploaded.

I don't think Schoeman will qualify until next autumn.

I think until we know who we might be playing, speculation as to what kind of a squad we will have will be difficult. It may even come in different squads, for example, if we play Japan, we will need to be full strength (minus any Lions) but if the rest of the summer is spent playing Georgia, Romania and Spain, then it will have a very different look to it.

Japan will be a fun game to watch.

I think that Shaun has some very good points. A summer tour with Japan, Georgia, Romania and Spsin - if played in that order - would be a great way to introduce a few youngsters/those returning from injury/limited no of caps initially, with some experienced heads to support. Then introduce more newbies as the tour moves on.
I'm thinking that Rae, Ashman, CHH, Craig, Crosbie, Boyle, Wynne, Gordon, Darge, Dobie, G Horne, Thomson, Chamberlain, Redpath, McLean, Blain could be introduced or return to the fold.
And supplement them with experienced guys like Kebble, Brown, McInally (if fit) Gilchrist, Skinner, Fagerson jnr, Hastings, Johnson, Jones, Maitland.
Gives a balanced squad that introduces more new starters against the weaker opposition.
Maybe start with a full strength squad minus any lions against Japan - full international cap. Then the rest of the games are allocated A squad status, with the number of newbies depending on the quality of opposition.

Is Wynne even playing right now? I'd forgotten about him. Whilst I think it's a good time to experiment there should be a core of seniors there as momentum is important now if we want to get to that ever elusive goal of consistency!

I'd have Hastings starting with Thompson/Chamberlain benching. VDW has proven he's not a good player beyond club, even at club he's arguably not that good! It's a shame that Aussie fly half Scots qualified chappie came in so late in the season for Edinburgh as he looked good for large parts of the game he played. That'll be next season before we get a proper look. Boyle, definitely. Could be a chance for Gordon to up his game again too. Blade Thomson is a known quantity, unless we have injuries I don't want him really picked. Matt Fagerson is still very much developing and I think will come good so I'd stick with starting him at 8.

Highland Shaun wrote:What would your summer tour squad be Hazel, I oresume your post above is only the starting 23?

Of the youngsters that I have seen (not many in EPL due to only watching highlights on channel 5), I would like to see: Dobie, Thompson, Chapman (David Flatman was very praising of his performance last week), McLean.

Uncapped players I'd like to see: Bayliss (GT hints at it in the above article link), Schoeman (only because he's eligible and we'd like to see how he does in International rugby), Huhter-Hill, Vellacott.

I'd also give Gary Graham another look in just to see if he has improved after his dire performance v Wales.I

Go easy on me by the way, I'm only new lol, I'm sure you peeps will disagree with some of my opinios :-P.

Not sure when this will get uploaded but, check out the YouTube channel, RugbyAnalyst, he is very good . He has 2 videos up just now regarding lions selection, one on test squad and the other on hos first test 23, I'm hoping that in the next few days he will have a Scotland 6N report card video uploaded.

No worries Shaun. Not my starting 23, more the guys who have 0-2 caps and should be in the squad. The squad is not set in stone by any stretch. Any injuries to key competitors at lock, half back, centre or wing could be the difference between us getting 4 Lions or 8.

I am expecting a larger squad to start, particularly if the competition gets less stiff over time, as it will allow us to shave off the guys who have played quite a bit. If I ignore Sutherland, Zander, J Gray, Ritchie, Watson, Russell, VDM and Hogg, and assume everyone else is fit, my 35/36 man squad would look something like

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, Schoeman (if qualified, if not either Dell or Grahamslaw depending on how the latter gets on over the next 3 months)
HK: Brown, Turner, Ashman
TH: Berghan, Nel, Rae/McCallum (we lack TH depth)
LK: Cummings, Skinner, Gilchrist, Craig, Davidson
BR: M Fagerson, Bayliss, Graham, Haining, Gordon (Skinner can cover BS and 8 so 5BR is enough)

SH: Dobie, G Horne, Steele or Vellacott (Steele really deserves a chance but seems not to be rated)
FH: Hastings, VDW or Weir, Thompson or Chamberlain (youngster to bench against Spain/Romania)
Centres: Redpath, Hutchinson, S Johnson, H Jones, Harris
Back 3: Maitland, Graham, Kinghorn, McLean, Blain

Obviously comes with huge caveats but something like that. Plenty to go against England and/or Japan and some youngsters to blood against Romania/Georgia/Spain

The other thing to consider here is the international window, which is only three weeks and we are potentially looking at 5 matches.

If we do play games outside of the window, then it will be only Scottish based players who are playing in them.

I saw someone mention Gary Graham playing again. Can we just agree not to mention him again on here? Against Wales, he looked like he was mucking about for a fair proportion of it. It would have been entirely in keeping with his performance if he'd snuck behind Stuart Hogg at some stage and pulled his shorts down. Frankly, he played like he'd won a competition to be there. A mascot that was accidentally given a shirt.

Graham was certainly a disappointment given how good his form was coming into those games.

I wouldn't resign him to the scrap heap immediately though - hopefully he's learned from his mistakes...

Playing too well for a decent team to completely ignore, particularly if during the summer G Graham settles down. His penalty count was crazy against Wales.

If we do play outside the international window, that probably helps the case for Davidson, Gordon, Bradbury, VDW, Bennett and Lang to enter the squad.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Playing too well for a decent team to completely ignore, particularly if during the summer G Graham settles down. His penalty count was crazy against Wales.

If we do play outside the international window, that probably helps the case for Davidson, Gordon, Bradbury, VDW, Bennett and Lang to enter the squad.

Not for Davidson unfortunately, he will be a Gloucester player by then!

You may be right, but it will depend on when the contract swaps over BG. Lang comes under the same category.

May help Hodgson or Bennett instead depending on the when.

RDW wrote:Graham was certainly a disappointment given how good his form was coming into those games.

I wouldn't resign him to the scrap heap immediately though - hopefully he's learned from his mistakes...

You need to be consistently horrible to get dropped, and even them some still don't.............

Graham seemed to have OD’d on the serge Betson magic potion that Asterix and Obelix used to consume in that game. He just went full metal jacket and couldn’t restrain himself. Very much of the mould laid down by Geoff Cross at coming flying out the gate with brain not engaged.

No matter which way you cut it, we’re sorely lacking a physical presence at 8. A snarling monster to fighten the opposition. Clearly Graham decided that he was going to fit that bill but he went too far over to the dark side that day. As a pro player I’m sure he’ll be able to restrain himself in future and this type of tour (Spain aside, I mean really, Spain???) would be a great place to ease him back into international colours.

If Charlie Chapman keeps playing well for Gloucester we could see him in the touring team , I think the only issue is, who gets dropped so he gets in, I'd be inclined to say Vellacott.

Not sure of his position but another I'd like to see is, Glen Young. He was getting praised by journalists on Twitter at the start of the year.

I hope the tour doesn't clash with Euros or Wimbledon otherwise I'll have to record Rugby :-sp.

I think I asked this above but, who will coach the team if, as is highly likely, GT goes on Lions tour as coach?

I'm getting into this rugby malarkey , will try and watch a lot more Glasgow/Edinburgh matches during Rainbow Cup, I only saw a limited number this past season (both Derbies, both v Zebre and both v Bennetton).

There's a player called Charlie Chapman??

I'm guessing if Toonie is away one of the assistants will step up, or they'll just take collective lead as a group. All the rumours are suggesting Toonie will be involved with the Lions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Chapman_(rugby_union)

There sure is RDW, I only discovered that last week. He scored that match, and this week against Exeter :-).

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/u20-extended-six-nations-squad-assemble-ahead-of-championship

The Scotland U20s squad

Some familiar names in there, including a Townsend and another Redpath, a potential half back pairing to emulate their fathers.

Williamson and Samuels, the two giant young Glasgow locks, who trained with the full Scotland squad this season, both still only 18 I believe.

A back we had never heard of, Adam Clayton, from Bath University, who turns out to be the son of the Olympic Decathlon Champion, Daley Thompson! His mother was Scottish, from Dundee. he certainly has some sporting genes!

5 of them come from Sedburgh School, probably the best rugby school in the country just now. Hard to know as they mostly have not played all season, but they could turn out to be a talented bunch and a lot of them have at least one more year at this level.

Any players in the Under 20s that are good prospects Gee, Redpath or Clayton perhaps ?

Always hard to tell at U20, but everyone seems to like the look of Williamson and Samuel's already

Ollie Melville was rated as RugbyPass's best young fullback in early 2020 and was a star for the England u18's at FB.

Didn't Patrick Harrison get on for Edinburgh recently? How did he get on?

Hazel Sapling wrote:Ollie Melville was rated as RugbyPass's best young fullback in early 2020 and was a star for the England u18's at FB.

Didn't Patrick Harrison get on for Edinburgh recently? How did he get on?

Bit of a cameo for Harrison, but he did ok. It is impressive enough to be doing that at 18 in its own right!

Some of the more established u20s are not even in the squad, Dobie, Matt Currie and Gregor Brown (who is injured) and seem to be being left to concentrate on their pro careers.

Not much to do with the next Scotland squad, but some of us of a certain age will remember Massimo Cuttitta, our Italian/South African scrum coach of a few years ago.

He unfortunately died of Covid yesterday, two days after his mother, who also had it.

What a tragedy and a reminder that no-one is immune from this disease. He was 54 years old!

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2021/04/scotland-depth-chart-conveyor-belt-front-row/

This is a very good article about the depth in each position (I presume there will be more to come in the coming days so I may well add these articles into this thread too) and Kevin Millar's predictions at who will get capped in the summer and who he thinks will make the next world cup.

Well worth a read, I didn't even know about McBeath until I read it :O.

That is a useful article. We're looking great at LH with 3 top class options vying for a starting spot and one solid and experienced backup (Bhatti). Hooker is decent depth too as we've discovered this 6N.

Tighthead is a huge concern though, with Fagerson the only long term top class option, and there's no immediate backups coming to mind to take over from Nel. I've mentioned McCallum before and he has got a bit more gametime this season but isn't really pushing on.

I'm never usually one for positional switches but given our depth at LH I wonder if Kebble could be persuaded to make the transition to TH? I know he's filled in there before, but I also know it's not as easy a change as it would appear on paper. He's a perfectly good international class LH - is it worth risking that to try and develop him at TH?

RDW wrote: Tighthead is a huge concern though, with Fagerson the only long term top class option, and there's no immediate backups coming to mind to take over from Nel. I've mentioned McCallum before and he has got a bit more gametime this season but isn't really pushing on.

I'm never usually one for positional switches but given our depth at LH I wonder if Kebble could be persuaded to make the transition to TH? I know he's filled in there before, but I also know it's not as easy a change as it would appear on paper. He's a perfectly good international class LH - is it worth risking that to try and develop him at TH?

Isn't this terms of banishment on a Scottish thread?

We moved Welsh to TH and he was fine....but he could have become excellent at LH and, as mentioned, we were short a LH in 2019. We are 1 injury from Kebble being in the 23, it is too risky to mess him about.

Hazel Sapling wrote:

RDW wrote: Tighthead is a huge concern though, with Fagerson the only long term top class option, and there's no immediate backups coming to mind to take over from Nel. I've mentioned McCallum before and he has got a bit more gametime this season but isn't really pushing on.

I'm never usually one for positional switches but given our depth at LH I wonder if Kebble could be persuaded to make the transition to TH? I know he's filled in there before, but I also know it's not as easy a change as it would appear on paper. He's a perfectly good international class LH - is it worth risking that to try and develop him at TH?

Isn't this terms of banishment on a Scottish thread?

We moved Welsh to TH and he was fine....but he could have become excellent at LH and, as mentioned, we were short a LH in 2019. We are 1 injury from Kebble being in the 23, it is too risky to mess him about.

That's why I was wary of mentioning it!

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2021/04/scotland-depth-chart-conveyor-belt-second-row/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Here is today's conveyor belt article by Kevin Millar , today he looks at the Locks.

Interesting that he seems to hint at Edinburgh/, Glasgow moving on from Meihuizen :O but that GT could still be interested.

I will trade you Farrell, a Vunipola, and a Saracen to be named later for Hogg!

I'd like Blain and McLean to be involved. Maitland doesn't have much more in the tank at international level and I'd like to see us building new options on the wings. These two very much have the look of international players.

Not sure how these articles are being received on here because there doesn't seem to be many comments regarding them but, here is today's article by Kevin Millar, focusing on the Back Row

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2021/04/scotland-depth-chart-conveyor-belt-back-row/

Tomorrow focuses on Half Back and Centre (he's doing 2 articles, one in morning and another in the afternoon) and Friday is the last one, where he focuses on the Back 3.

I am really enjoying reading the articles and Kevin's thoughts on who could make the next two world cups and his predictions as to who will get capped in the summer for the first time, in each position.

Keep them coming HS. There's natural lulls in the forum when there's no games on so don't take it personally if no one replies.

These articles are excellent, and are clearly well researched.

Boyle and Darge appear to be the tips for the longer term. I also think Miller has shown himself a very decent player for Edinburgh this season. Crosbie is the one I'm unsure of. He's one of these 6.5s and whilst Edinburgh use him most at 7, he's not as natural as Tom Gordon in that role.

8 remains a concern. Bradbury hasn't kicked on and Fagerson, whilst off the back of a very decent 6 Nations, still lacks the power and handling skills to be a top 8 (particularly with Ritchie and Watson on the flanks).

I wonder if Bradbury's long-term home is at second row. Flankers these days are very dynamic and he's more of a big lump. At Edinburgh he's less likely to play on the back row given how many options we have there.

Could end up a Rob Harley type solid club pro, which on itself would be a shame as he looked like he could be so much more.

I actually think he'd benefit on moving to another club, especially if it's one where he could get a good run at 8.

The big difference between Magnus and BBB is that Bradbury actually looked like a very good ball carrier when he first appeared in a Scotland jersey. The ball carrying part of the game always eluded the Giant Red Crayon; everything else he does wonderfully.
Bradbury was seen primarily as a ball carrier but recently this has disappeared from his game. I'm not too sure what is left after the barnstorming breaks have dried up.
With Harley we have a club legend who never quite fitted into international rugby, with Bradbury it's someone who looked like the number 8 jersey was his for the foreseeable and then it wasn't. Honest, hard working, Stakhanovite Warrior and fly by night, dilettante Luvvie?

The thing is Scotland have plenty of locks. Edinburgh are fairly well stocked at lock (Gilchrist, Toolis, Hodgson, Ferreira, Sykes, potentially Carmichael (if his body can handle rugby)). There seems to be a constant stream of good locks coming out of the academies, knock on wood.

Bradbury should be locking up the bench spot after the starting back-row at Edinburgh at a minimum. When any of the 3 are out, he should be starting if he is on form. He has failed to kick on and up his work-rate. It may be a situation where he needs to go and challenge himself at somewhere like a London Irish or even Harlequins (he won't be starting for the biggest sides).

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2021/04/scotland-depth-chart-conveyor-belt-half-backs/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Here are today's two articles, the first one is focusing on the Half Backs and the one below, on Centres.

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2021/04/scotland-depth-chart-conveyor-belt-centres/amp/?__twitter_impression=true.

I see Cs Redpath's bro and the son of the gaffer are mentioned in one of the articles.

Oh and my shock today is that Charlie Savala is SQ, didn't he play out of position in either the last Pro 14 match of the season or the hammering against Racing, I'm sure I recall him playing 10 or 15?

He played 10 for Edinburgh in a Pro 14 match - his first pro rugby game basically. Did ok by all accounts.

Very, very green!

Theres a good article on rugby xv re redpath. Like these couple of snippets.

Here’s a little story for you,” Redpath tells The XV. “I FaceTimed my dad after we’d won and he was really buzzing. He sent me a video later on that night – on his 50th cap he got a bottle of whisky. He started the video by saying, ‘this is the bottle of whisky I got on my 50th cap, and I’m going to open it now to celebrate’.

“About two hours later, my sister sent me a photo of him passed out at the top of the stairs. I think he enjoyed it a little bit too much. He was pretty happy. My mum was the same, looking after him – she can handle it a lot better.”


“The best team to make my debut against would have been England,” Redpath says. “The way we won and the way I played it made me feel, ‘right, yep, I’ve definitely made the right decision’. It put the icing on the cake and put that Scotland-England debate to bed. That’s the best way to have done it.”