Ricky Hatton versus Josh Taylor - Anyone Else Think that the Tartan Tornado beats the Hitman?

Alright guys, something which has been on my mind recently which I'd like to get other peoples' thoughts on.

I find it odd that Josh Taylor's career still goes a little under the radar, even here in the UK. He strangely seems to be more highly regarded Stateside than here. Yet after just 17 professional fights he's already unified two alphabet world titles at Light-Welterweight, earned Ring Magazine recognition as the best in his division, has come through a World Series Boxing tournament, forged a spot in the Ring Magazine's pound for pound top ten list and, in his very next fight, will be taking on his rival for divisional supremacy in a fight where all four of the major belts will be on the line.

I know I'm potentially setting myself up for a fall here, as if he were to lose to José Ramirez in that unification showdown next month people might think I'm being fanciful here. But the more I think about it, the more I see Taylor beating Ricky Hatton, who similarly was at his best at 140 lb and who attracted a hell of a lot more fanfare there.

Taylor's all wrong for Hatton. Tall and left-handed for starters - from Eamonn Magee, to Luis Collazo, to Manny Pacquiao, we saw consistently that Hatton had real problems against southpaws and was often made to look technically very poor against them. How did Hatton beat many of his opponents? Usually by being the fitter, more durable and stronger guy, getting close to them, muscling them and punishing the body. Now Taylor is open for body shots, which he'd need to be mindful of here. But his fight against Prograis was a great demonstration of clever and hard inside fighting (from both, to be fair) and I think his win over Viktor Postol is quite telling here, too. Postol, particularly early, was trying some pretty rough stuff when he got in close on Taylor, but what has often impressed me about Taylor is that, while he can box well enough, he doesn't allow himself to get moved around on the inside.

Aside from the later rounds (understandable, given the nature and pace of the fight), against Postol he wasn't happy to just accept the clinches, and instead made sure that he controlled Postol's arms and had the last word by getting off the telling shots in those exchanges...(I even have to give the usually hapless Ian John-Lewis some credit here for not juming in to break them, and letting the fight flow in this respect). Same goes for the referee in the Prograis fight.

Obviously Hatton didn't rely on timing too much and was good at winning fights which were scrappy and stop-start. But as Emmanuel Steward said after his fight against Collazo (at 147, but still worth reading into from a styles point of view), against guys with a decent gauge of distance his tactics were always going to negated, as he badly underused his jab and tended to initiate exchanges with wide power shots which he had to launch himself in to - and he used to start those punches so far away from his opponent that the better boxers out there were likely to step back or around and counter. Taylor maybe underuses his pure boxing skills every now and then too, to be fair, but he can fight tough and brawl when he needs to. In particular against Postol he used his opponent's forward momentum against him on a few occasions, making him effectively throw himself face-first into hurtful shots.

Good boxing skills, can fight tall and also in close depending on the situation, left-handed, good inside strength and also proven stamina and chin in gruelling contests - I really think Taylor is a nightmare for Hatton and I'm not sure I can see a way that Hatton could win this. Taylor's got the right mix of physical attributes and also style to offset whatever Hatton throws at him, for me. And if Taylor can beat Ramirez in a few weeks, we may have to start considering the possibility that his achievements as a Light-Welterweight champion outstrip those of Hatton, too.

Needs to rematch Prograis on neutral soil and beat Teofimo Lopez(who wants the winner) before and comparisons with Hatton

A win over Ramirez puts him on level pegging with Hatton maybe but not sure it puts him ahead

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Ramirez has a lot of faith in himself and did mention himself as a future hall of famer in one interview I saw. This Chicano bringing the heat and Prograis felt he took something out of Taylor

Unify, then Lopez followed by Prograis and it’s be ok, more than ok, to talk about best British light welterweight of last twenty five years or more

Herman Jaeger wrote:Needs to rematch Prograis on neutral soil and beat Teofimo Lopez(who wants the winner)  before and comparisons with Hatton

A win over Ramirez puts him on level pegging with Hatton maybe but not sure it puts him ahead

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Ramirez has a lot of faith in himself and did mention himself as a future hall of famer in one interview I saw. This Chicano bringing the heat and Prograis felt he took something out of Taylor

Unify, then Lopez followed by Prograis and it’s be ok, more than ok, to talk about best British light welterweight of last twenty five years or more

Not sure I follow the logic of this post to be honest.

Taylor has no need to rematch Prograis, he beat him fair and square. It's like saying that Hatton needed to rematch Tzuyu on neutral soil or needed to beat Witter, someone who would have caused him all sorts of trouble.

Saying Ramirez has faith in himself is a non comment, Taylor has faith in himself, Prograis had faith in himself, it's not noteworthy at all, confidence doesn't trump ability.

Well yes, Herman, I'll admit that comparisons between their CVs and historical ratings as 140 pounders is probably for a little further down the line, and just some extra meat on the bones of my original post. Suffice to say (for me anyway) that if Taylor manages what you've outlined (beating Ramirez, Lopez moving up and then Prograis again) he'll have definitely surpassed Hatton! As it is, beating Ramirez next month would already be enough to make it a very interesting debate.

But my main point was that, regardless of what happens in the Ramirez fight, based on what I've seen so far and how their styles would match up I'd genuinely favour Taylor in a one-off contest which I get the impression might well be an unpopular or minority view.

It will be unpopular amongst Hatton fans but beyond his popularity his actual boxing ability was blown out of all proportion, you said yourself Chris if he couldn't manhandle someone he looked poor. He struggled more with Urango than a top level fighter should and that was based on size, he couldn't impose himself and had little else to fall back on for the most part.

He gets credit for Tzuyu but that fight was in itself dependent on Dave Parris letting Hatton maul to an unacceptable level, say the Cortez of the Mayweather fight was officiating he gets picked apart in reality. None of this answers your question but ultimately Taylor is the classier operator with better punch variation and decent power, combine that with the southpaw stance and you're looking at a reasonably comfortable victory.

Relax Soul, the Prograis rematch never happening we all know that, Taylor can move up and challenge Crawford

But not before fighting Lopez or that would look funny

I'm probably a bit harsher on Hatton than most others, Soul, and for what it's worth I do think that, based on styles, he'd always have been in with a decent shot of beating Tszyu. But nevertheless as you say he did have a couple of key things in his favour for that fight and it was perhaps the only time he and his handlers took a genuine risk where he had something to lose, because the timing was right and the potential rewards outweighed those risks. I guess the Collazo fight had its risks too, albeit to a much lesser extent that Hatton and his team realised at the time! After that scare it was definitely safe assignments or nothing-to-lose mega fights for big money only.

Strongly suspect if someone like Taylor had been around back then instead of Witter, Hatton would have been chucking around the same kind of excuses for not entertaining the idea of a fight as he did with Witter at the time. But with his superior stamina, size and inside game I think he'd definitely be a harder assignment than Witter - who I'd have taken Hatton to beat, though not without some problems.

Herman, I'm surprised to see that you think there's no chance of a Prograis rematch. What makes you say that? Taylor and his team thus far haven't been particularly safety-first and he's been matched tough. Easy to laugh now but the Davies fight was seen as a risky one and hard to call between two good prospects. He's taking on the only other remaining champion in the division more or less straight off the bat from winning the World Series Boxing tournament, if we allow for the Covid slowdown. Postol was no gimme as a title eliminator either.

I'd love to see a Prograis rematch as I think it was one of the best fights of 2019, and close enough to suggest that a return bout could easily yield another result (I scored it a draw but had no issue with Taylor winning a close one, it's just that 117-112 card which really put a slight downer on it). I also really rate Prograis and I suspect in a few years Taylor's win over him will look even better than it already does. The fight was way too close to suggest that it was an outright hometown (or at least home fighter) decision and I see no reason why Prograis couldn't win a rematch even if it was in the UK. Obviously if Taylor were to beat Ramirez to sew up all the belts then Prograis will have no choice but to come back to the UK for a rematch, but in any case I can see a scenario where Taylor, Prograis and Ramirez all do a bit of round robin-ing and share a few fights amongst themselves.

I wasn't as blown away by Lopez's performance against Lomachenko as many others were, but hey, he's got the frame for 140 and he'd be a welcome addition to the division too.

Ramirez will be the sixth unbeaten fighter that Taylor has faced in only 18 fights, not sure we can really suggest in any form that he's selective with his matchmaking. On top of that you have Postol who had only previously lost to Crawford and did a number on Matthyse at the height of his hype.

I wasn't blown away by Lopez either Chris, then again I never really bought into the Lomachenko hype, always felt he was likely to be found out sooner rather than later, neither of them has swathes of quality wins it has to be said. Style over substance springs to mind.

So far you can’t fault Taylor’s matchmaking but I can’t definitively call him the better man till I see that rematch on neutral soil

Maybe Prograis fought Taylor’s fight last time, maybe Prograis adjusts better in the rematch, who knows? I did expect Regis to dance around a bit for a few rounds, I didn’t expect him to go at it right from the off. Maybe Taylor wound him up, which is credit to Taylor but I feel Regis would ease himself into the fight next time

But back to Ramirez, he looks a handful but if there is a criticism on Robert Garcia fighters, it’s that their one dimensional. Forget Mikey who was self taught

https://youtu.be/B0Q7uniLUww

‘I’m a be the best and baddest fighter in the whole world. Point blank. Period’

https://youtu.be/ieO-90hGdrk

Herman Jaeger wrote:‘I’m a be the best and baddest fighter in the whole world. Point blank. Period’

https://youtu.be/ieO-90hGdrk

This got anything to do with the thread?

Give a little plug for women’s boxing, quite looking forward to this one and I’ve never seen either of them:

https://youtu.be/tG24ZFsDAEk

Soul Requiem wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:‘I’m a be the best and baddest fighter in the whole world. Point blank. Period’

https://youtu.be/ieO-90hGdrk

This got anything to do with the thread?

Yeah, he wants the winner. And it would be some fight.

He wants the winner of a hypothetical fantasy match up?

Taylor/Ramirez

Picks Taylor to destroy Ramirez, suggests Tank Davis as a possible opponent for Taylor, 6m:

https://youtu.be/lXV-Y2yyI40

Herman Jaeger wrote:Picks Taylor to destroy Ramirez, suggests Tank Davis as a possible opponent for Taylor, 6m:

https://youtu.be/lXV-Y2yyI40

Why do you insist on spamming threads with youtube links?

Very remiss of me, should have put it on the miscellaneous thread

‘Boxing is becoming more of a popularity contest’ 1m26:

https://youtu.be/oe4Cyty_b04

You should learn to multitask Soul

Personally, I like it when threads go off on a tangent

Herman Jaeger wrote:Very remiss of me, should have put it on the miscellaneous thread

‘Boxing is becoming more of a popularity contest’ 1m26:

https://youtu.be/oe4Cyty_b04

Well yes you should.

I can't see Mayweather and the rest of Davis' team targeting someone like Taylor any time soon. Davis is obviously an extremely hard puncher, one of the hardest in the sport, but he's been very carefully matched so far. Generally been put in there with brawlers without a punch or over-the-hill gatekeepers - basically people they can just rely on him bludgeoning with big power shots.

Plenty of people have drawn comparisons with the way Broner racked up his world titles and the fanfare a few years back without ever really fighting the elite names or having to add to his game, and there are definitely similarities here (and like Broner, he also come across as a 'nad sack). Santa Cruz was on top against him before the finish and he's not exactly elite at Super-Feather. Sensational knockout by Davis, mind you.

With regards to the Ramirez fight. No doubt in my mind that Taylor is the better and more complete fighter and the Postol, Baranchyk and Prograis fights should stand him in good stead. In all of those contests, particularly the latter two, he's been faced with real problems and on each occasion has risen to the challenge and come through in difficult circumstances. The last southpaw Ramirez faced (Zepeda) ran him pretty close and he fought a much more conservative fight than I'd expect Taylor to fight, and also seemed to lose a bit of heart as the fight wore on due to the head clashes.

Ramirez is tough and persistent, is a good body puncher and can also unload a nice uppercut if he gets the chance (Taylor will want to fight tall to try and avoid them if he can), but he's technically not great and very hittable. My concern is that Taylor's jab hasn't really shown up in some fights, despite his other qualities, and if he's not landing it with regularity then Ramirez is going to be able to get close, smother, push him back and try and dig to the body.

That said, Taylor is a much harder fighter to push back than Postol or Zepeda and I'd expect him to at least give Ramirez a decent argument in the brute strength stakes, unlike those guys. Against Baranchyk he seemed to be struggling a little with the physicality and pressure, but after having that 10-7 round he found the confidence to settle down into his more aggressive boxing and all of a sudden it was him who looked the more physically imposing guy, almost walking Baranchyk down in spells which you'd never really seen from him before.

Barring cuts or injuries I don't think there's any chance of a stoppage but if Taylor brings his best game then I think he wins a solid decision.

Davis won’t go near Prograis, that’s for sure

I don't think Tank is going to be doing too much boxing for now - seems he has some major legal issues:

https://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_/id/31120997/junior-lightweight-titlist-gervonta-davis-indicted-2020-hit-run-crash