LIONS ANNOUNCEMENT

First topic message reminder :

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

BamBam wrote:Beirne can partner Itoje at lock if Ryan’s form isn’t up to scratch

I've got a feeling Beirne wants to play in the Tests not the mid-week games

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

I can't see Marler touring based on the fact he didn't fancy bubbling up for the 6 nations. LCD v Owens will be a close one.

Soul Requiem wrote:With regards to the term world class, to me it means being in the conversation for inclusion in a world 23. I don't think that has ever applied to AWJ, a very good player no doubt but I don't think he's ever reached the next level; the level that Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth or De Jager have or did operate at.

Sean Edwards wrote:Jones has all the attributes to go down in history alongside some legendary leaders.
“He’s an incredible athlete and he has a great rugby brain as well. Let’s be honest, that doesn’t happen very often. To have such size, power and speed and also be such an intelligent rugby player means he has the full box of tricks. He is undoubtedly one of our world-class players.
“He has such a competitive edge. All the best captains have a competitive edge where they’re desperate to win. I think what you have to take into consideration with Alun Wyn Jones is he doesn’t just do that with Wales, he does it with the Ospreys too and that’s what the greatest of great players do. Martin Johnson did it, Lawrence Dallaglio did it and Alun Wyn Jones does it.”

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/alun-wyn-jones-named-worlds-top-player-by-rugby-world-magazine/

Wayne Pivac wrote:"Alun will go down as one of the greatest players of all time but he is still at the top of the game, performing and winning, and he deserves the contract extension. He is an important part of our future.

Toby Booth wrote:"His ability to deliver high performances throughout his career is what marks him out as such a world-class player

https://www.rugbyworld.com/news/100-best-rugby-players-world-1-alun-wyn-jones-89491

Will Greenwood wrote:“Alun Wyn Jones is the best player that the northern hemisphere has produced in the 21st century,”

Esportif wrote:Wales Captain Alun Wyn Jones exhibits all the attributes of a world-class rugby player both on and off the pitch. At 6’6″ and over 18 stone he is hugely powerful, but also athletic and arguably one of the best locks of his generation.

Guinness Six Nations Rugby - Greatest XV wrote:With a combination of irrefutable leadership skills, exhaustive work rate, brilliant ball handling and controlled aggression, Jones is undoubtedly a worthy contender for the Greatest XV, and rightly deemed one of Europe’s top stars in the modern era.

He can rightly be talked about as not just the greatest of his generation but of the greatest of all time.

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

Pathetic WUM

Nothing wummish about it. Looking forward to it after your vocal campaign that you can't judge by watching.

Oakdene wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

I can't see Marler touring based on the fact he didn't fancy bubbling up for the 6 nations. LCD v Owens will be a close one.

I don't think I can either. Given his young family and personal issues it's a big ask to be away that long.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:With regards to the term world class, to me it means being in the conversation for inclusion in a world 23. I don't think that has ever applied to AWJ, a very good player no doubt but I don't think he's ever reached the next level; the level that Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth or De Jager have or did operate at.

Beggars belief! What a crock of sh***

He can rightly be talked about as not just the greatest of his generation but of the greatest of all time.

Talk about throwing ones toys out the pram. It's an opinion, probably about time you took that on board instead of this constant childishness. At no point at AWJ ever been the premier second row in the world, he's a fair way behind Paul O'Connell (a player rightly considered to be great), when it comes to purely northern hemisphere, i'd take Simon Shaw over him every day of the week.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:With regards to the term world class, to me it means being in the conversation for inclusion in a world 23. I don't think that has ever applied to AWJ, a very good player no doubt but I don't think he's ever reached the next level; the level that Retallick, Whitelock, Etzebeth or De Jager have or did operate at.

Beggars belief! What a crock of sh***

He can rightly be talked about as not just the greatest of his generation but of the greatest of all time.

Talk about throwing ones toys out the pram. It's an opinion, probably about time you took that on board instead of this constant childishness. At no point at AWJ ever been the premier second row in the world, he's a fair way behind Paul O'Connell (a player rightly considered to be great), when it comes to purely northern hemisphere, i'd take Simon Shaw over him every day of the week.

Are you serious! I just proved to you how many times he has been voted not just the best lock but the player in the world and you still (fingers in ear) go blabbering on with your ridiculous stance

Not throwing toys out of pram just proving what a pathetic, blindly biased comment you made.

I'd rather go with all the professionals comments as qualification that he is not just one of the best of his generation (that easily includes include POC, who has never been consistently talked in the same way) but one of the greatest ever, rather than your one-liners.

Be of with you!.....I'd start watching the game if I was you

That's me told then, you might learn the ability to grow up one day. You've not actually proved a single thing, i'm looking at the world player of the year lists and his name doesn't appear at number one once, he's been nominated twice granted. So all opinions that are different to yours are blindly biased? Interesting view. I'll stick with making my own mind up on such matters rather than adhere to your authoritarian outlook.

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

Pathetic WUM

Nothing wummish about it. Looking forward to it after your vocal campaign that you can't judge by watching.

Typical reply from you to move it away from what was actually said. You’ve been doing it for years on these boards so no surprise.

We were talking specifically about players considered to be ‘strong scrummaging locks’. And your only way of measuring that, according to you, was by sight! No thanks. I’ll take the pro coaches opinions over 7.5’s ‘sight’ any day.

I never duck a question or move away from the point, so I don't accept that assertion. Yes you specifically didn't like it that I said Jones is a weak scrummager comparatively to the other options and asked which stat backed that up. That opens the door for every view on a player you have to be questioned through your use of stats. TBF I'd have moved on but you have made further comments on it so I'll keep asking now. What's your starting pack and which stats will you use as a basis for those. You can take other opinions of course, I don't care if you think x, y and z are more important. Nail your colours to the mast Oracle, which players and which stats for each?

Soul Requiem wrote:That's me told then, you might learn the ability to grow up one day. You've not actually proved a single thing, i'm looking at the world player of the year lists and his name doesn't appear at number one once, he's been nominated twice granted.

You mean this one
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2021/news/531951

This is not dealing in absolutes or proof! (it can only be an opinion).....this is talking about a poster building up a player (we know the lock you want in the Lions side) by running down another rival (AWJ) with one-liners without any rational qualification

As a Scot the three players I don't want facing Cummings and Gray are Launch, Henders and AWJ. I've been lucky enough to go 7 out of the last 10 Lions tours, there is no doubt AWJ has been in the top 3 Locks ever for the Lions and that's endorsed by of most "qualified" rugby connections

He is a world class player and consistently for the best part of a decade

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

Pathetic WUM

Nothing wummish about it. Looking forward to it after your vocal campaign that you can't judge by watching.

Typical reply from you to move it away from what was actually said. You’ve been doing it for years on these boards so no surprise.

We were talking specifically about players considered to be ‘strong scrummaging locks’. And your only way of measuring that, according to you, was by sight! No thanks. I’ll take the pro coaches opinions over 7.5’s ‘sight’ any day.

I never duck a question or move away from the point, so I don't accept that assertion. Yes you specifically didn't like it that I said Jones is a weak scrummager comparatively to the other options and asked which stat backed that up. That opens the door for every view on a player you have to be questioned through your use of stats. TBF I'd have moved on but you have made further comments on it so I'll keep asking now. What's your starting pack and which stats will you use as a basis for those. You can take other opinions of course, I don't care if you think x, y and z are more important. Nail your colours to the mast Oracle, which players and which stats for each?

I didn’t mention stats, 7.5. You did. I just ask what objective measure did you have for the others being strong scummagers and AWJ being weak. I said, and I quote, that the only way to tell that would be in a lab. Everything else is just hyperbole. You can judge a winger by sight - speed, tries, men beaten, tackles broken, etc. It is very, very difficult to judge a players contribution to scrum power when he’s hidden in amongst 7 other players all doing the same thing. But there you go.

My pack, for what it’s worth, would be:

Wyn Jones - very consistent in the 6N.
Ken Owens - wouldn’t be unhappy at others being chosen though.
Furlong - best TH available in my opinion.
AWJ - because I can see his scrum power oozing through my TV. Very favourable stats over his rivals in the recent 6N too.
Itoje - because otherwise 7.5 will cry
Beirne - one of the players of the tournament in the 6N for me.
Watson - awesome. Curry on bench to cover a few positions.
Faletau - Very consistent. Solid and safe.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:That's me told then, you might learn the ability to grow up one day. You've not actually proved a single thing, i'm looking at the world player of the year lists and his name doesn't appear at number one once, he's been nominated twice granted.

You mean this one
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2021/news/531951

This is not dealing in absolutes or proof! (it can only be an opinion).....this is talking about a poster building up a player (we know the lock you want in the Lions side) by running down another rival (AWJ) with one-liners without any rational qualification

As a Scot the three players I don't want  facing Cummings and Gray are Launch, Henders and AWJ. I've been lucky enough to go 7 out of the last 10 Lions tours, there is no doubt AWJ has been in the top 3 Locks ever for the Lions and that's endorsed by of most "qualified" rugby connections

He is a world class player and consistently for the best part of a decade

It's true as an Englishman i'm running down AWJ in order to build up the Irishman James Ryan, spot on logic there. I as much as you am entitled to my own opinions, you do however seem to struggle with the personal opinion bit, clinging to the views of others instead. If I wanted to be told what to think, I wouldn't bother coming on to an online forum.

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

Pathetic WUM

Nothing wummish about it. Looking forward to it after your vocal campaign that you can't judge by watching.

Typical reply from you to move it away from what was actually said. You’ve been doing it for years on these boards so no surprise.

We were talking specifically about players considered to be ‘strong scrummaging locks’. And your only way of measuring that, according to you, was by sight! No thanks. I’ll take the pro coaches opinions over 7.5’s ‘sight’ any day.

I never duck a question or move away from the point, so I don't accept that assertion. Yes you specifically didn't like it that I said Jones is a weak scrummager comparatively to the other options and asked which stat backed that up. That opens the door for every view on a player you have to be questioned through your use of stats. TBF I'd have moved on but you have made further comments on it so I'll keep asking now. What's your starting pack and which stats will you use as a basis for those. You can take other opinions of course, I don't care if you think x, y and z are more important. Nail your colours to the mast Oracle, which players and which stats for each?

I didn’t mention stats, 7.5. You did. I just ask what objective measure did you have for the other being strong scummagers and AWJ being weak. I said, and I quote, that the only way to tell that would be in a lab. Everything else is just hyperbole. You can judge a winger by sight - speed, tries, men beaten, tackles broken, etc. It is very, very difficult to judge a players contribution to scrum power when he’s hidden in amongst 7 other players all doing the same thing. But there you go.

My pack, for what it’s worth, would be:

Wyn Jones - very consistent in the 6N.
Ken Owens - wouldn’t be unhappy at others being chosen though.
Furlong - bear TH available in my opinion.
AWJ - because I can see his scrum power oozing though my TV. Very favourable stats over his rivals in the recent 6N too.
Itoje - because otherwise 7.5 will cry
Beirne - one of the players of the tournament in the 6N for me
Watson - awesome. Curry on bench to cover a few positions.
Faletau - Very consistent. Solid and safe.

You first mentioned stats around scrummaging, you've admitted to that here and discounted any opinion which isn't based on it. That's fine but then don't act surprised that I'll do the same! A fair few toys out the pram here simply because some people say x isn't strong in the scrum or that they don't consider them world class! You're able to pick your pack out without a single stat to back any of that up, presumably it's because you've watched and judged them and based your opinion on that. It's a forum, thats what people will do. Stop with the little digs and I'll stop pointing out you're being hypocritical.

Soul Requiem wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:That's me told then, you might learn the ability to grow up one day. You've not actually proved a single thing, i'm looking at the world player of the year lists and his name doesn't appear at number one once, he's been nominated twice granted.

You mean this one
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2021/news/531951

This is not dealing in absolutes or proof! (it can only be an opinion).....this is talking about a poster building up a player (we know the lock you want in the Lions side) by running down another rival (AWJ) with one-liners without any rational qualification

As a Scot the three players I don't want  facing Cummings and Gray are Launch, Henders and AWJ. I've been lucky enough to go 7 out of the last 10 Lions tours, there is no doubt AWJ has been in the top 3 Locks ever for the Lions and that's endorsed by of most "qualified" rugby connections

He is a world class player and consistently for the best part of a decade

It's true as an Englishman i'm running down AWJ in order to build up the Irishman James Ryan, spot on logic there. I as much as you am entitled to my own opinions, you do however seem to struggle with the personal opinion bit, clinging to the views of others instead. If I wanted to be told what to think, I wouldn't bother coming on to an online forum.

I'm pretty ok with opinion, it's the one-liners without qualification that gets my claw.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think mine has changed since i posted the other week.

Marler LCD Furlong
Itoje Ryan
Ricthie Curry
Faletau or Vunipola.

Looking forward to Oracles with details on which stats have been used!

Pathetic WUM

Nothing wummish about it. Looking forward to it after your vocal campaign that you can't judge by watching.

Typical reply from you to move it away from what was actually said. You’ve been doing it for years on these boards so no surprise.

We were talking specifically about players considered to be ‘strong scrummaging locks’. And your only way of measuring that, according to you, was by sight! No thanks. I’ll take the pro coaches opinions over 7.5’s ‘sight’ any day.

I never duck a question or move away from the point, so I don't accept that assertion. Yes you specifically didn't like it that I said Jones is a weak scrummager comparatively to the other options and asked which stat backed that up. That opens the door for every view on a player you have to be questioned through your use of stats. TBF I'd have moved on but you have made further comments on it so I'll keep asking now. What's your starting pack and which stats will you use as a basis for those. You can take other opinions of course, I don't care if you think x, y and z are more important. Nail your colours to the mast Oracle, which players and which stats for each?

I didn’t mention stats, 7.5. You did. I just ask what objective measure did you have for the other being strong scummagers and AWJ being weak. I said, and I quote, that the only way to tell that would be in a lab. Everything else is just hyperbole. You can judge a winger by sight - speed, tries, men beaten, tackles broken, etc. It is very, very difficult to judge a players contribution to scrum power when he’s hidden in amongst 7 other players all doing the same thing. But there you go.

My pack, for what it’s worth, would be:

Wyn Jones - very consistent in the 6N.
Ken Owens - wouldn’t be unhappy at others being chosen though.
Furlong - bear TH available in my opinion.
AWJ - because I can see his scrum power oozing though my TV. Very favourable stats over his rivals in the recent 6N too.
Itoje - because otherwise 7.5 will cry
Beirne - one of the players of the tournament in the 6N for me
Watson - awesome. Curry on bench to cover a few positions.
Faletau - Very consistent. Solid and safe.

You first mentioned stats around scrummaging, you've admitted to that here and discounted any opinion which isn't based on it. That's fine but then don't act surprised that I'll do the same! A fair few toys out the pram here simply because some people say x isn't strong in the scrum or that they don't consider them world class! You're able to pick your pack out without a single stat to back any of that up, presumably it's because you've watched and judged them and based your opinion on that. It's a forum, thats what people will do. Stop with the little digs and I'll stop pointing out you're being hypocritical.

Stop saying AWJ is weak in the scrum if you can’t back it up then!

So what do you think of my pack? I assume you disagree with most.

Or just accept that I think he's weak comparatively in the scrum to others!

Re scrum id be temped the Jones should marler make himself unavailable. I have a great fear gatland will persist with vunipola.
Disagre on owens LCD has been immense these last 6 months probably should have been starting over George a good deal before that. Id probably still go for George on the bench though. Agree on furlong and itoje (assuming your mickey take means he is still first choice for you). Beirne was great in the 6 nations but I love what Ritchie brings in niggle and as a jumper on opposition throw in the lineout. Curry for me is one of 3 nailed on certainties if he's fit.

Faletau fair enough.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Or just accept that I think he's weak comparatively in the scrum to others!

Re scrum id be temped the Jones should marler make himself unavailable. I have a great fear gatland will persist with vunipola.
Disagre on owens LCD has been immense these last 6 months probably should have been starting over George a good deal before that. Id probably still go for George on the bench though. Agree on furlong and itoje (assuming your mickey take means he is still first choice for you). Beirne was great in the 6 nations but I love what Ritchie brings in niggle and as a jumper on opposition throw in the lineout. Curry for me is one of 3 nailed on certainties if he's fit.

Faletau fair enough.

I’ll accept that is your opinion, and your right to have it. I won’t accept that it is correct though

Fair enough. Like I said its a forum. Similar to you can't prove its incorrect.

Hmm, maybe. But I would think based on the balance of probabilities that a player would soon be dropped from either his club, region, international team or the Lions, by at least one of all of those different coaches that have worked with him, if he was sh*t/weak/poor in the scrum. Something would have come out and I’ve trawled the internet to find something about him being a weak scrummager but I just can’t find it!

Anyway, it’s a lovely day so I’m off out on my bike to burn a few calories!

The Oracle wrote:Hmm, maybe. But I would think based on the balance of probabilities that a player would soon be dropped from either his club, region, international team or the Lions, by at least one of all of those different coaches that have worked with him, if he was sh*t/weak/poor in the scrum. Something would have come out and I’ve trawled the internet to find something about him being a weak scrummager but I just can’t find it!

Anyway, it’s a lovely day so I’m off out on my bike to burn a few calories!

Have fun. Final thing as with the vast majority of topics and it's very similar to discussions about Lawes on the England threads saying someone is worse than another lock in the scrum doesn't mean they're dreadful, just that there are better.

All this talk about Farrell’s disciplinary record. At international level, Russell’s is much worse. How he didn’t get a straight red for that cowardly trip against England is surprising at the least.

Lions watch

Bristol V Exeter - Breathtaking match

Jack Norwell is the real deal, love the guy....looking really sharp, Sam Skinner just awesome (in his best position at BSF)

Lions Watch

Sam Simmonds 20mph runs half the pitch and still accelerates........phew!. Gats in in the stand must be thinking Steady's having a Sarries backhander to continually be picking Billy V over Sam S

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions Watch

Sam Simmonds 20mph runs half the pitch and still accelerates........phew!. Gats in in the stand must be thinking Steady's having a Sarries backhander to continually be picking Billy V over Sam S

The commentators really get the horn every time he touches the ball. He is good but the hype is ott.

Collapse2005 wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions Watch

Sam Simmonds 20mph runs half the pitch and still accelerates........phew!. Gats in in the stand must be thinking Steady's having a Sarries backhander to continually be picking Billy V over Sam S

The commentators really get the horn every time he touches the ball. He is good but the hype is ott.

I guess you get the hype when your the current European Player of the Year and have scored nearly twice the number of tries than anyone else in the league.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions Watch

Sam Simmonds 20mph runs half the pitch and still accelerates........phew!. Gats in in the stand must be thinking Steady's having a Sarries backhander to continually be picking Billy V over Sam S

The commentators really get the horn every time he touches the ball. He is good but the hype is ott.

I guess you get the hype when your the current European Player of the Year and have scored nearly twice the number of tries than anyone else in the league.

Agree mate he was phenomenal in every facet of the game, attack and defence.

i think the reason a lot of us blow Sam's trumpet is because Eddie won't give him a chance anymore for whatever reason.  it is clear to most of us that Poppy Cleal would be a better option than Billy at no 8.  Faletau is clearly ahead of Sam for the Lions, as is possibly Doris.  But if Billy gets picked ahead of Sam, then sorry I give up.

Probably just me because I only really watch the English clubs when they play Irish teams but I barely noticed Simmonds was playing for Exeter in their recent QF against Leinster. It was a bit underwhelming given all the build-up about him. Maybe there was only so much he could do given the way the game generally went but his opposite number Jack Conan was a lot more prominent. It's why I get a little exasperated when I hear an English player being touted for the Lions on the basis of their Premiership form, I never hear the same for the player in the Pro14 and I wouldn't expect to. However I am willing to let Simmonds off on the basis of his and Exeter's exploits in Europe last season

Fair comment - however he wasn't picked as European player of the year just because of his form in the Gallagher. He was game in and game out good in Europe. I understand the frustartion though when players don't get the recognition they are due for consistently good performances. As I alluded to, the thing with Sam is that we are so sick of a desparately poor Billy being picked for Engalnd ahead of Sam that we praise him to the hilt at every opportunity in the hope that eddie might finally see sense.

There is this thing about lightweight backrows (and yes I am thinking about Australia) is that if they are good enough they can have absolutely brilliant matches, or they can disappear when faced with the right tactics.

I think Simmonds is a brilliant rugby player who in places looked very good in his few games for England, but he doesn't do the job that Billy does, or Ben Morgan did, or Nick Easter before hand. You look at most of the recent 8's we have played you also have Waldrom, and Nathan Hughes. They are mostly big guys who truck the ball up and make hard yards. If we want to get the most out of Simmonds it means restructuring the pack around him - getting at least one if not two big flankers (like Skinner and Vermuelen this evening). I don't think there is much motivation to make that much of a change.

Curry is what a 17.5 stone OSF ....how much bigger do you want a flanker to be?

1. W.Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. AWJ
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Watson
8. Faletau

Lawes will be on the bench. Think about it

Same as mine Alive. However, I have to admit that when I select Owens it is probably influenced by familiarity. Lots of calls for LCD but I do not get to see much of him outside of internationals and as a few English fans have said LCD has often played second fiddle to George. But I wouldn’t be unhappy with him over Owens if he’s so highly recommended.

The Oracle wrote:Same as mine Alive. However, I have to admit that when I select Owens it is probably influenced by familiarity. Lots of calls for LCD but I do not get to see much of him outside of internationals and as a few English fans have said LCD has often played second fiddle to George. But I wouldn’t be unhappy with him over Owens if he’s so highly recommended.

George has the experience but if you ask most England fans I'd bet they'd put LCD ahead now. How much that is down to the current Saracens effect I can't say.

FHF's Shout - Saturday 24/04/2021 10:00am (Based on last relevant SA matches i.e. WC-SF & WC-Final & 2021 6Ns)
FORWARDS (20)
Front Row (10)
LH - Jones - Wales
LH - Sutherland - Scotland
LH - Cian Healy - Ireland
LH - Vunipola - England
TH - Sinckler - England
TH - Furlong - Ireland
TH/LH - Porter -Ireland
H - Cowan-Dickie - England
H - Turner - Scotland
H - Owens - Wales

Second Row (4)
LHL - Itoje - England
LHL - Beirne - Ireland
THL - Jones - Wales – CAPTAIN
THL - Ryan - Ireland

Back Row (6)
BSF - Curry - England
BSF - Tipuric - Wales
OSF - Watson - Scotland
OSF - Underhill - England
8 - Stander - Ireland
8 - Faletau - Wales

BACKS (16)
Half Backs (6)
SH - Murray - Ireland
SH - Davies - Wales
SH - Price - Scotland
FH - Sexton - Ireland - Vice Captain
FH - Biggar - Wales
FH - Russell - Scotland

Centres (4)
IC - Farrell - England - Vice Captain
IC - Henshaw - Ireland
OC - Davies - Wales
OC - North - Wales

Back Three (6)
RW - Louis Rees-Zammit - Wales
RW - Watson - England
LW - van de Merwe - Scotland
LW - Josh Adams - Wales
FB - Williams - Wales
FB - Hogg - Scotland

The pack is really intriguing, it's all about the combinations. Calls for Simmonds need to understand the balance of the Exeter pack...I'm not sure the Lions can replicate this.

For me:

1. Vunipola
2. LCD
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Itoje (c)
6. Curry
7. Watson
8. Faletau

16. Owens
17. Jones
18. Sinckler
19. AWJ
20. Underhill

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The pack is really intriguing, it's all about the combinations. Calls for Simmonds need to understand the balance of the Exeter pack...I'm not sure the Lions can replicate this.

If all players were on song, I'd be fascinated by a backrow of 6. Lawes 7. O'Mahony 8. Simmonds

As you imply, the choice of Simmond at no. 8 might limit your choice of flankers, whereas choosing Faletau, Vuniopola, or another leading contender, gives you a wider range of flanker partners. You could see Simmonds as a flanker but it would be easier to compare him with the other contenders if he was actually playing there.

Biggar just took a knock against Leicester...

Rugby Fan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The pack is really intriguing, it's all about the combinations. Calls for Simmonds need to understand the balance of the Exeter pack...I'm not sure the Lions can replicate this.

If all players were on song, I'd be fascinated by a backrow of 6. Lawes 7. O'Mahony 8. Simmonds

As you imply, the choice of Simmond at no. 8 might limit your choice of flankers, whereas choosing Faletau, Vuniopola, or another leading contender, gives you a wider range of flanker partners. You could see Simmonds as a flanker but it would be easier to compare him with the other contenders if he was actually playing there.

I really don't see Simmonds as a viable option.....he's a highlights reel player imo.

...and he just executed a tap tackle to save a try...

FHF - I don't disagree with a lot of your selection but only 4 locks? One of which is Beirne who is perhaps better suited to blind-side given the physicality of the Boks.

Marler if he could be persuaded to go would be a better choice that Vunipola on current fitness.

On the Simmonds issue, a back-row of Beirne, Curry and Simmonds would be interesting but I still would not expect him to be chosen or warranted

He didn't pick the best winger in Europe but tbh its a battle that is just not worth fighting, again.

In other news North is now a doubt having damaged his leg

He didn't pick the best winger in Europe but tbh its a battle that is just not worth fighting, again.

he did - duhan VDM :-) top of the pro 14 for years, top of the 6N this year

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions watch

Bristol V Exeter - Breathtaking match

Jack Norwell is the real deal, love the guy....looking really sharp, Sam Skinner just awesome (in his best position at BSF)

Might just be me, but I thought Francis and Malins were two of the best players on that day.

mikey_dragon wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions watch

Bristol V Exeter - Breathtaking match

Jack Norwell is the real deal, love the guy....looking really sharp, Sam Skinner just awesome (in his best position at BSF)

Might just be me, but I thought Francis and Malins were two of the best players on that day.

Francis was excellent, what I liked about that match was Exeter all seemed to be playing with smiles on their faces. No whooping, high fives, head butting each other, shouting in the oppositions faces....but just acknowledged smiles of appreciation.

flyhalffactory wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Lions watch

Bristol V Exeter - Breathtaking match

Jack Norwell is the real deal, love the guy....looking really sharp, Sam Skinner just awesome (in his best position at BSF)

Might just be me, but I thought Francis and Malins were two of the best players on that day.

Francis was excellent, what I liked about that match was Exeter all seemed to be playing with smiles on their faces. No whooping, high fives, head butting each other, shouting in the oppositions faces....but just acknowledged smiles of appreciation.

Yeah, Exeter are a great team. Funny you mention that, it’s how England play and I’ve often expressed my disappointment at viewing it, only to be shouted down and dismissed as a wum.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wenv

Makes me think of Harry enfield.

Rugby Fan wrote:...and he just executed a tap tackle to save a try...

... and then kicked a penalty with his LEFT FOOT.

Yesterday, Biggar showed what Lion is.

doctor_grey wrote:Yesterday, Biggar showed what Lion is.  

Lions Watch
Dan The Lions Man?
https://www.planetrugby.com/lions-hopeful-dan-biggar-praised-after-brave-performance-for-northampton-against-leicester-in-premiership/

He's just slip sliding into the Lions Test 10 jersey

doctor_grey wrote:Yesterday, Biggar showed what Lion is.  

Some people are easily pleased!