England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

2nd June-14th June: Two tests v New Zealand

23rd June-26th June: Three T20s v Sri Lanka
29th June-4th July: Three ODIs v Sri Lanka

8th July-13th July: Three ODIs v Pakistan
16th July-20th July: Three T20s V Pakistan

4th August-14th September: Five Tests v India

Conway goes for 80, just 58 runs scored from when Crawley initially caught him off Broad.

king_carlos wrote:Simon Katich would be right up there with the most skilled part timers I saw.

I think there were more part time spinners in those eras as they were more effective in one day cricket. When one day batting was in its infancy straight break finger spinners could frequently fly through a decent number of economical overs in the middle of a one day game which gave their skipper a lot more flexibility with his bowlers. White ball batting has evolved so far that part timers just get whacked a lot more often now.

Steve Waugh broke through as a genuine all rounder it's worth noting. His bowling kept him in the Australia side whilst it took him 20 something Tests to make his first century. He was an aggressive batsman and bowler in his younger years. Then he put away the hook, became more obdurate with the bat and largely stopped bowling. It's remarkable how some players change throughout their careers.

Jayasuria was originally a spinner of course.

George Dockrell of Ireland is now converting himself into a batting all rounder who occasionally turns his arm over.

Yeah, Katich of course. Between him and Tendulkar, I would say Sachin still was much better. Sachin could bowl legspin, offspin and medium pace too. His legspinners turned a lot when he managed to land them, and could swing the ball when bowling medium. Won India a number of ODIs with the ball, and made telling, timely contributions in some of India's greatest test wins with his bowling. Kolkata 2001 and Adelaide 2003 for example...

While in the tea break On the list of most skillful part-timers... right at the top are Kallis and Sobers...part-timers...because their batting was so significantly better than bowling record
Aus has had the best part-times from when I have been watching......Border, Waugh, Junior-Waugh, Katich, Bevan, Smith, Labuschagne, Clarke...were/are all very skillful.

Viv Richards and Dsilva were two of a kind...Jayasuriya and Ranatunga had their moments also
For Pak ......Mudassar & Shoiab Malik stand out as the best two
Indians have had Sehwag, tendulkar, Yuvraj and Ganguly in recent times.....after that the tap of quality part timer has dried up

If you go in older eras....there were many more in solkar, Abid ali, durrani, Borde

For Eng Before Root Michael vaughan was a pretty decent off spinner...and few in between...because Eng has been blessed with real all rounders , so they did not have to rely on part timers much

Anderson all over Taylor this over...suddenly batting looks a lot more hazardous.
Vital half hour here . Get a couple more and the whole game changes...

Conway looked like he's settling in for another double ton. Then he played one in the air and got caught in the deep. Broad deserved that I guess.
Ross Taylor at the crease. He has a platform to work, and in the absence of Williamson, need to shoulder the responsibility of holding this innings together and pressing home the advantage that 122 run partnership gave them.
He didn't look like he knew to even hold a bat in the first innings of the last test, before just coming out and biffing a few 2nd time round. So not in the best of touch, and so England have an opportunity...

KP_fan wrote:While in the tea break On the list of most skillful part-timers... right at the top are Kallis and Sobers...part-timers...because their batting was so significantly better than bowling record
Aus has had the best part-times from when I have been watching......Border, Waugh, Junior-Waugh, Katich, Bevan, Smith, Labuschagne, Clarke...were/are all very skillful.

Viv Richards and Dsilva were two of a kind...Jayasuriya and Ranatunga had their moments also
For  Pak ......Mudassar & Shoiab Malik stand out as the best two
Indians have had Sehwag, tendulkar, Yuvraj  and Ganguly in recent times.....after that the tap of quality part timer has dried up

If you go in older eras....there were many more in solkar, Abid ali, durrani, Borde

For Eng Before Root Michael vaughan was a pretty decent off spinner...and few in between...because Eng has been blessed with real all rounders , so they did not have to rely on part timers much

You cannot seriously describe Sobers or Kallis as part timers ! They were true all rounders - just total genius all round. I'll give you the others but please don't blaspheme

Young has been in the middle for a long time but has never looked fluent. Other than that drop, he hasn't been too troubled, but he hasn't looked like scoring a lot of runs. Taylor hasn't been off to a good start. He's the type of player who would want to get on with it. Young need to find more ways of getting scoreboard moving, so that Taylor can settle in...

Taylor struggling against Anderson here. As it is his 3rd spell of the day, he may be off sooner rather than later, Rosco will have to survive this stern test.

Ball has been doing more since the change, and England have noticeably picked up since Conway's wicket. But Young and Taylor surviving for now.

Taylor somehow gets through that Broad over!

alfie wrote:

You cannot seriously describe Sobers or Kallis as part timers !  They were true all rounders - just total genius all round. I'll give you the others but please don't blaspheme

Forget Don Bradman; Sobers and Kallis are without a shadow of any doubt the two greatest cricketers to have ever played the game.

Sobers- 235 @ 34
Kallis- 292 @ 32.6

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:

You cannot seriously describe Sobers or Kallis as part timers !  They were true all rounders - just total genius all round. I'll give you the others but please don't blaspheme

Forget Don Bradman; Sobers and Kallis are without a shadow of any doubt the two greatest cricketers to have ever played the game.

Sobers- 235 @ 34
Kallis- 292 @ 32.6

Both were absolutely fabulous fielders in their own rights as well.

Very good half-century from Will Young, though he was helped with Root's drop. He had to grind it out early on, and has since played some gorgeous drives to help his side along. Unlikely to be in the team for the WTC final (I think) but has given the selectors something to think about.

Sense England's mini-advantage is just abating again. These two have done well to dig in.

NZ have done well to - somehow - survive a string of really testing overs from Broad and Anderson with the ball moving late. But I presume both of the old boys are cooked for now so it needs Stone and (presumably) Wood to keep the pressure on . Taylor has really struggled ; but if he gets set he could cash in ...

Anderson having one more over. He has been so much better in this spell and must be wondering what he has to do to put Taylor away.

Anderson still on, trying to get that breakthrough. Taylor is surviving, and he has even managed to leave a couple alone with something approaching comfort. Just doesn't look in touch, is Rosco...

Absolute howler of a call. Taylor so scrambled he nearly didn't review!

That was a really bad call by the Ump

Root did well to give Anderson another over there, and he nearly got Taylor! Rosco survived on review, but good captaincy from Root.

You should get an extra review when an umpire makes a call that bad and you win the review... that wasn't anywhere close to being out.

17 overs for Anderson already, he might now be off for a while.

Stone not keeping the pressure. Young helping himself. He should be a bit more confident as well, after scoring his first test 50.

Unfortunately, Stone is releasing the pressure here. He's trying hard ; striving perhaps too hard for pace. But spraying it a bit and allowing easy runs.

Jimmy persisting after momentarily thinking he had Taylor last over. But he can't have much more in the tank for now.

Robinson would have been a nice option on this...

Anderson going on! He's sensing a wicket. Taylor takes the single first ball though. Young should try and play the over out.
Will it be Root or Wood taking over from Anderson?

How much more exciting is cricket in general, and test cricket in particular, when the ball is doing things. When each run needs to be earned, the watching experience is taken to another level!

Stone off after a couple of expensive overs only to have a change of ends.

msp83 wrote:Anderson going on! He's sensing a wicket. Taylor takes the single first ball though. Young should try and play the over out.
Will it be Root or Wood taking over from Anderson?

Wood on ...but in place of Stone. Problems for Root.

Ah...Stone takes over at the other end. The right call , I think. They have to keep the pressure on here , even if it does mean a lot of tired pace men by close of play.

And a slow over rate , unfortunately.

Might be time to give Lawrence a go. Root's been comfortably negotiated, Anderson/Broad are exhausted, Stone's spraying it around like he's bowling with his eyes shut. Even Wood's not 100%.

WinViz only giving the Kiwis a narrow advantage. I think the tourists have been ahead since the time they took three quick wickets in the afternoon session yesterday. They're on course for a three digit lead at the moment.

Taylor would be relieved that he came through that Anderson test. Now he even plays out an over without drama!

When England were in trouble yesterday, they lost wickets in clusters. When NZ have been in trouble, they've ground it out. That's the difference. Anderson and Broad bowled brilliantly after tea, but could only take one wicket in that time, when they needed two or three. Since then, Stone has fallen apart completely and Wood has been blunt.

Game's just drifting to stumps, which is perfect for NZ as they continue to build an imposing total.

Wood going hard at Taylor - who still doesn't look totally comfortable. England certainly haven't fallen apart yet : the bowling has ranged from excellent to "energetic but a bit inconsistent " - and they might have been entitled to expect a better result. But the Kiwis have not given anything away (apart from Conway's rush of blood) and are , at 200/2 , apparently on course for 450.

Which would likely be match winning.

Going to be a while before the next new ball - they aren't going to get through a lot of overs tonight , even with Root in action. Nine more , I see. So barring some careless mistakes from the batsmen , tomorrow morning could be set up as a bit of a killing field.

Not great from Stone, sadly. I really rate him, it's not the end of the world to struggle against a good batting lineup on a fairly flat track. Not his best session though.

We saw in the England innings, missed chances early in the Conway and Young partnership, also in Taylor struggling early that this is a pitch where wickets can fall in a bundle if you put it in the right areas and take your chances. England just haven't done it enough.

For the talk of missing a front line spinner I think we are missing the consistency of Woakes, Archer, Stokes or Surran more. Woakes offers great consistency. Archer can take wickets from anywhere. Stokes pressures the batsman in different ways to our other seamers. Surran offers the left arm angle that we've seen break partnerships several times.

4 right armers with Wood below his top pace is looking a bit samey. Stone to me is similar to Archer in that he's not an out and out quick but more a swing bowler (Archer's more of a seamer) than can bowl quick. Difference is that Archer has his height which gives him a lethal bouncer he can bowl without any change in his action.

I was a bit worried with Wood playing back to back Tests and today hasn't alleviated those worries. He's not bowled badly but just isn't performing the role that ideally sets Wood apart in this stable of seamers and quicks.

Stone again now , hoping to redeem himself after some loose stuff since tea. He was unfortunate not to have an early wicket - seems a long time ago now ! But overall he's going to be disappointed with this display . Apart from some handy batting.

Root looking glum. He's out of serious bowling options so can only hope to battle through to stumps and hope for better things
tomorrow. But you'd think conditions might be at their best for batting then and that's a daunting prospect...

211/2.

All jokes aside I genuinely believe that Darren Stevens bowling wicket to wicket with the keeper up to the stumps could have been a useful tactical option in conditions such as today. On days such as this sometimes a slightly slower bowler can just get that bit more out of the ball when it does swing. Particular if the keeper is up to the stumps, pinning the batsman to the crease so the bowler can pitch it a bit fuller and give the ball every chance to swing.

Though Root has put in a decent shift, being a parttime bowler, he can't be expected to bowl long spells. Wood and Stone not on their A games mean that England's combination is hurting them. Think they should at least have put Woakes in the mix, he doesn't play too many T-20Is these days.

A lot of other bowlers England could have picked. But perhaps we should just accept that a promising young fast bowler will have the odd off day...and also that these NZ batsmen are both very determined and quite good. Putting England's 303 on this pitch into perspective.

Lawrence having a go now , close to stumps. Worth a try.

msp83 wrote:Though Root has put in a decent shift, being a parttime bowler, he can't be expected to bowl long spells. Wood and Stone not on their A games mean that England's combination is hurting them. Think they should at least have put Woakes in the mix, he doesn't play too many T-20Is these days.

I've largely agreed with the rest and rotation policy but Woakes being unavailable for this game was the first instance of it that really bothered me. With Stokes unavailable England could really use the consistent quality he adds to the bowling and depth in the batting. Woakes would significantly improve this XI.

Told you, this is Dan Lawrence's test match!

Oh poor Will Young. He'll be devastated by that!

Lawrence gets a massively needed wicket in the final over. With Taylor vulnerable early and Nicholls starting his innings that is just the slightest chink of light for England heading into tomorrow morning.

And 80s proving to be the undoing of yet another batter. Burns, Conway and now Young, on top of Lawrence being stranded on 81!

That came out of nowhere! Lawrence's bowling action was making me dizzy, presumably it did the same to Young.

Gives England a bit of a lift going into tomorrow. Very little went for them today, other than Wood's entertaining cameo all those hours ago and that last wicket. Chastening day for Stone, hopefully he'll learn from it and come through a better player.

A match-winning 400+ is well on for the Kiwis. England's hope is the new ball. If that doesn't work, it'll be another long day on the green fields of England.

king_carlos wrote:Oh poor Will Young. He'll be devastated by that!

Lawrence gets a massively needed wicket in the final over. With Taylor vulnerable early and Nicholls starting his innings that is just the slightest chink of light for England heading into tomorrow morning.

And the new ball in a couple of overs in the morning! Horrible time for young to get out.

Despite that, New Zealand's day. They batted with discipline and put England under pressure, and when ever the bowling put some pressure, they fought through the tough times... Taylor was beginning to look fluent, now he'll have to start over tomorrow, against Anderson with the new ball...

Wow . The magic of part time spin

Late relief for England ...and they've managed enough overs that the new ball is actually only four overs away. So just a sniff of a chance to get back into the game ; albeit with the old boys having already put in a solid shift.

NZ will sleep more soundly I think.

end of D2...NZ ahead
Bowlers have let Eng down, and in particular Anderson not finding rhythm has hurt Eng....Broad was unexpectedly good....but I dare say Eng was missing the controlled fastish medium seamers/ cutters of tall Robinson, who would have been a handful on this pitch too.

Some will say a catch was dropped.....BUT.....when bowlers are bowling well.....more chances come and eventually they get the batsmen
Not enuf chances were created by Eng bowlers.....not enuf consistency with line and length.

Are Eng out of the game?
Naah.....NZ are some distance ahead but not run away with the game.
Working way forward to the end game ...If Eng get a 250 run lead it will be an even game on D4/D5 pitch.....where even Root / Lawrence will stand to pick some wkts

A P50 scenario is NZ will score a 150 more tomm...leaving them with a lead of 75ish and Eng will need to score 325 in second inning.....not easy...Patel will be spinning...but very gettable.
You could work + or - of that P50 scenario to judge the ease or difficulty that Eng will land into.

That NZ will be batting last makes it only about 55-45 in favour of NZ as it stands now

How's Broad bowling well a surprise? He struggled in India which wasn't unexpected but he averaged less than 15 in Tests in 2020 and his record at home is outstanding.

Could've been a different game if Conway is given out as he should earlier, or Root holds onto the Young catch and suddenly NZ are 60-3...instead they look well ahead in this game. But, new ball round the corner and they have a longish tail, a couple of early wickets, keep the lead to around 100 and England still have a shot in the game if they can bat well 2nd time round.

Seems Stone had a poor final session? Shame, thought he bowled well in his first spell.

Good to see Lawrence having a good game - if only because it will give me more gusto to make a case for my new Ben Stokes to bat at 3 campaign...(for another day that one )

king_carlos wrote:How's Broad bowling well a surprise? He struggled in India which wasn't unexpected but he averaged less than 15 in Tests in 2020 and his record at home is outstanding.

I don't look at stats.....I say it as I see it and Broad had not looked very potent in lanka and in India .....down on pace even if he got some wickets
Nor did he look impressive in T1 not getting wickets conceding more than a 100 runs in T1
And I wasn't expecting much from him...therefore his pace of 88mph and potency was unexpected ( for me atleast)

I still feel he is on fast decline ..and his good tests are becoming fewer and far apart.

Clueless.

How many consecutive innings did he pick up at least three wickets last summer?

Day 3. Moving Day, eh Carlos?  Feel we have to win at least 2 of the 3 sessions to stay in this Test.

Belatedly following up on yesterday's posts about part time bowlers, one I would flag is Gooch. He actually bowled quite a bit, particularly for Essex performing a role with his medium pace and ending up with over 200 first class wickets (23 for England having just looked it up). However, it's unlikely he would have been good enough to make the grade even at county level as just a bowler.

guildfordbat wrote:Day 3. Moving Day, eh Carlos?  Feel we have to win at least 2 of the 3 sessions to stay in this Test.

Belatedly following up on yesterday's posts about part time bowlers, one I would flag is Gooch. He actually bowled quite a bit, particularly for Essex performing a role with his medium pace and ending up with over 200 first class wickets (23 for England having just looked it up). However, it's unlikely he would have been good enough to make the grade even at county level as just a bowler.

Definitely moving day in this Test, guildford. I reckon England need 3 wickets in morning session or this game could get away from them very swiftly.

I hadn't thought of Gooch actually but he could bowl a bit.

One who came to mind from county cricket was Mark Butcher. Not a favourite player for either of us to be frank but he was a pretty handy swing and seam bowler in his early days.

Moving day? Expecting the moving to be New Zealand getting up to somewhere around 450, leaving England a desperate battle just to survive.