Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

Ben Leicester have been fortunate to find wealthy owners who saved us from a deal of trouble but they could not be accused of throwing stupid money around and disregarding the fans.The PL winning team was assembled from a bunch of frees ,has beens and cheap buys I think Ulloa was the top buy at about £9m.What they then did as some players moved on for big money was start throwing some of that money about to try to maintain position with varying degrees of success.The Chairman gives away free beer and cakes on his birthday and has given a lot to local organisations including a childrens hospital ,We have been very very lucky.
I think the German teams have a different voting structure where fans have a big say.

[beninho]

You can't always tell though. You see people who appear perfectly healthy but deep down have mental health issues, but you are arrogant enough to think you can just sit down with someone and you can tell, like I said, really humble.

I've not said always. And I'm not talking people who appear perfectly healthy. I'm talking about si gle homeless and rough sleepers

[super_realist]

You said something along the likes of "do you think you cant tell if someone has a mental health issue by meeting them" implying you thought you could.

Demonstrably that isn't the case.

Some will be obvious, many will not. Surely you know of someone who has killed themselves and you had zero idea that they were struggling despite thinking you knew them?

[beninho]

You said something ong the likes of "do you think you cant tell if someone has a mental health issue by meeting them"
. Demonstrably that isn't the case. Some will be obvious,any will not. Surely you know of someone who has killed themselves and you had zero idea that they were struggling despite thinking you knew them?

You seem to be agreeing that you can tell in some instances?

[McLaren]

BBC News - Priest attacked by man with bottle in Edinburgh cathedral
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-57989939

Super

Was this you?

[super_realist]

You said something ong the likes of "do you think you cant tell if someone has a mental health issue by meeting them"
. Demonstrably that isn't the case. Some will be obvious,any will not. Surely you know of someone who has killed themselves and you had zero idea that they were struggling despite thinking you knew them?

You seem to be agreeing that you can tell in some instances?

Like I said, some cases it's clearly obvious, but you implied that you can always tell by sitting down with them. That's not the case, and certainly not with your background as a non clinical layman.

[beninho]

I dodnt say always. You are just making that up. But I'm glad we are in agreement that it is possible.

[super_realist]

No, you said "are you saying you can't tell if someone has mental health by meeting them". That implies that you can tell if someone has a mental health problem if you can just meet them.

Glad you have wound back on that now though.

Of course it's possible. I saw a guy talking and shouting to himself yesterday, shouting and swearing to absolutely no one, wasn't drunk, just mentally ill as far as I could tell.
Similarly you can tell Greta Thundberg has issues, different from the bawling man, but still obvious, however I could meet someone who appears perfectly happy but who has  an underlying problem that is not visible.

The issue here though is that it seems that it is pulled out rather too readily, and often when that might not be the cause. Just being upset, a bit down at times, worried, nervous, stressed etc are not mental health issues, at least not something worth raising as such. They're just normal parts of being alive.

[beninho]

No, you said "are you saying you can't tell if someone has mental health by meeting them". That implies that you can tell if someone has a mental health problem if you can just meet them.

Glad you have wound back on that now though.

Someone ot everyone. That's the bit that seems to have confused you. And it's also something you have agreed with. And yes, I've neet someone who clearly had mental health issues, that for whatever reason, mainly due to his circumstances where not diagnosed. I'm my job, its not that difficult to see this. We are on the same page, or you have decided to misconstrue my pretty basic words for an argument.

[super_realist]

No, you said "are you saying you can't tell if someone has mental health by meeting them". That implies that you can tell if someone has a mental health problem if you can just meet them.

Glad you have wound back on that now though.

Someone  ot everyone. That's the bit that seems to have confused you. And it's also something you have agreed with.   And yes, I've neet someone who clearly had mental health issues, that for whatever reason, mainly due to his circumstances where not diagnosed. I'm my job, its not that difficult to see this.   We are on the same page, or you have decided to misconstrue my pretty basic words for an argument.

Yes, but you could sit down with SOMEONE and not be able to tell they had mental health problems too.

[beninho]

The issue here thihgh is that it seems that it is pulled out rather too readily, and often when that might not be the cause. Just being upset, a bit down at times, worried, nervous, stressed etc are not mental health issues, at least not something worth raising as such. They're just normal parts of being alive.


Feeling down, stressed, nervous worried, are these good for your mental wellbeing? Could they be early warming signs of something more substantial? A nervous breakdown can be triggered by those, that is linked to mental distress. What's normal to obe person isn't normal to another.

[beninho]

No, you said "are you saying you can't tell if someone has mental health by meeting them". That implies that you can tell if someone has a mental health problem if you can just meet them.

Glad you have wound back on that now though.

Someone  ot everyone. That's the bit that seems to have confused you. And it's also something you have agreed with.   And yes, I've neet someone who clearly had mental health issues, that for whatever reason, mainly due to his circumstances where not diagnosed. I'm my job, its not that difficult to see this.   We are on the same page, or you have decided to misconstrue my pretty basic words for an argument.

Yes, but you could sit down with SOMEONE and not be able to tell they had mental health problems too.

Obviously. Because people are all different.

[super_realist]

Most of the mental health issues that people talk about are ones which you wouldn't be able to detect.

[beninho]

I will refer back to the Joe Marler mention, read some very interesting articles on him now. The whole cover up, or not taking it seriously, and he was up and down. Mental health and wellbeing shoukd be talked about more rather then still saying its just part of life.

[super_realist]

I will refer back to the Joe Marler mention, read some very interesting articles on him now. The whole cover up, or not taking it seriously, and he was up and down.  Mental health and wellbeing shoukd be talked about more rather then still saying its just part of life.

Of course more should be understood about it, but just saying you have mental health issues whenever it suits you isn't a good d way to understanding it, it's a good way to trivialise it.

[Soul Requiem]

I will refer back to the Joe Marler mention, read some very interesting articles on him now. The whole cover up, or not taking it seriously, and he was up and down.  Mental health and wellbeing shoukd be talked about more rather then still saying its just part of life.

Of course more should be understood about it, but just saying you have mental health issues whenever it suits you isn't a good d way to understanding it, it's a good way to trivialise it.

This is very true.

[JuliusHMarx]

It is indeed true, although I suspect that is far less prevalent than people dismissing genuine mental health issues as something to just 'get on with'.

Out of curiosity, if a pro golfer gets the yips, that is obviously a mental issue, but would people here class it as a mental health issue?

[superflyweight]

Probably need to find something we can all agree on after all that drama yesterday.

Farage and the RNLI - what's that all about?  

[super_realist]

It is indeed true, although I suspect that is far less prevalent than people dismissing genuine mental health issues as something to just 'get on with'.

Out of curiosity, if a pro golfer gets the yips, that is obviously a mental issue, but would people here class it as a mental health issue?

Of course it's not a mental health issue.

[JuliusHMarx]

What is it then? A mental dysfunction issue?
It indicates that something is wrong mentally that is preventing a person doing his job properly. If something is wrong mentally that prevents you from doing your job properly and affects your earnings, what label should we give it?

[JuliusHMarx]

For eaxmple, this link - https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/sports-clinic/65243
There is a quote -
"For baseball players with problems throwing, performance anxiety is at the top of [my list]," orthopedic surgeon Steve Jordan, MD, told Jones. "Most experts in sports psychology consider it a mental problem related to stress, anxiety or 'misplaced focus'." Writes Jones: "This is why the first line of treatment is nearly always psychological."

In the cases where the yips is baseball is down to stress and anxiety and requires psychological treatment, I would argue that it is a mental health issue.

[beninho]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

[super_realist]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

Jesus, no I don't think they're lying, but I do think that people use the term too readily to describe something which isn't actually a genuine mental health issue.
They might believe they have a mental health issue, but is it really?

If anything can be described as a mental health issue, then we all have mental health issues.
Is it a mental health issue if I don't shoot the score I expect? Is it a mental health issue if I worry about hitting a shot over water?

[super_realist]

What is it then? A mental dysfunction issue?
It indicates that something is wrong mentally that is preventing a person doing his job properly. If something is wrong mentally that prevents you from doing your job properly and affects your earnings, what label should we give it?

Is my inability to be a professional golfer a mental health issue?
If I have the yips, then it doesn't mean I have a mental health issue. I might have a confidence issue, but that's hardly a mental health issue.

[beninho]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

Jesus, no I don't think they're lying, but I do think that people use the term too readily to describe something which isn't actually a genuine mental health issue.
They might believe they have a mental health issue, but is it really?

If anything can be described as a mental health issue, then we all have mental health issues.
Is it a mental health issue if I don't shoot the score I expect? Is it a mental health issue if I worry about hitting a shot over water?

Is it that there is still a stigma attached to MH issues. And people think if you aren't a bit crazy it's not a mh issue.

Everyone has mental health. So, why is it a surprise if lots of people find different things a struggle.

[beninho]

What is it then? A mental dysfunction issue?
It indicates that something is wrong mentally that is preventing a person doing his job properly. If something is wrong mentally that prevents you from doing your job properly and affects your earnings, what label should we give it?

Is my inability to be a professional golfer a mental health issue?
If I have the yips, then it doesn't mean I have a mental health issue. I might have a confidence issue, but that's hardly a mental health issue.

If its based on anxiety causing you to struggle, Anxiety is a mental health issue. It may not mean being sectioned, but it's all on the same line.

[super_realist]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

[JuliusHMarx]

Anxiety disorder is obviously a mental health issue. It is on the same line as anxiety but obviously much more serious.

If a mental issue requires clinical intervention to resolve i.e. psychiatrist, psychologist, I would consider that a mental health issue.

I'd also consider it OK for someone to say 'I'm protecting my mental health' in the context of - I'm am taking action myself to prevent things getting to the stage where clinical intervention is required.

[beninho]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

You dont see anxiety as a mh condition? Have you looked at what anxiety did to Marcus Trescothick?

And how you deal with worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc is down to your individual mental health and wellbeing, is it not?

[super_realist]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

You dont see anxiety as a mh condition? Have you looked at what anxiety did to Marcus Trescothick?  

And how you deal with worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc is down to your individual mental health and wellbeing, is it not?

It depends on the impact, frequency and intensity Ben. You seem totally incapable of reading between the lines.
It's almost as if you see 1 seconds anxiety and a lifetime of anxiety as the same thing.

[beninho]

Anxiety disorder is obviously a mental health issue. It is on the same line as anxiety but obviously much more serious.

If a mental issue requires clinical intervention to resolve i.e. psychiatrist, psychologist, I would consider that a mental health issue.

I'd also consider it OK for someone to say 'I'm protecting my mental health' in the context of - I'm am taking action myself to prevent things getting to the stage where clinical intervention is required.

Everyone is responsible for their own mental wellbeing. If you feel sonething is impacting it, and have concerns, people shoukd be able to protect themselves without fear of being told its not serious enough. Surely early intervention is better then crises point?

[beninho]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

You dont see anxiety as a mh condition? Have you looked at what anxiety did to Marcus Trescothick?  

And how you deal with worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc is down to your individual mental health and wellbeing, is it not?

It depends on the impact, frequency and intensity Ben. You seem totally incapable of reading between the lines.
It's almost as if you see 1 seconds anxiety and a lifetime of anxiety as the same thing.

You just seem to be creating an argument here. Of course anxiety has many forms. Same as all MH. I don't think I've said anything different.

[JuliusHMarx]

Anxiety disorder is obviously a mental health issue. It is on the same line as anxiety but obviously much more serious.

If a mental issue requires clinical intervention to resolve i.e. psychiatrist, psychologist, I would consider that a mental health issue.

I'd also consider it OK for someone to say 'I'm protecting my mental health' in the context of - I'm am taking action myself to prevent things getting to the stage where clinical intervention is required.

Everyone is responsible for their own mental wellbeing. If you feel sonething is impacting it, and have concerns, people shoukd be able to protect themselves without fear of being told its not serious enough. Surely early intervention is better then crises point?

Yes - it is actually fairly easy in this country to get access to professional help, either via your GP or directly to mental health professionals. This may vary by region. In the first instance a standard evaluation test is usually done to determine the extent of the problem, and then the treatment is prescribed accordingly.

Most mental health professionals are full of praise for public figures who are open about their mental health issues, as it removes the stigma, and people with genuine issues are more likely to come forward, rather than hide it. Of course, some kn0b-ends will always try to belittle those public figures - but that says more about the kn0b-ends, I think.

[super_realist]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

You dont see anxiety as a mh condition? Have you looked at what anxiety did to Marcus Trescothick?  

And how you deal with worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc is down to your individual mental health and wellbeing, is it not?

It depends on the impact, frequency and intensity Ben. You seem totally incapable of reading between the lines.
It's almost as if you see 1 seconds anxiety and a lifetime of anxiety as the same thing.

You just seem to be creating an argument here.  Of course anxiety has many forms. Same as all MH. I don't think I've said anything different.

That's the point though, you seem to want to accept every claim of mental health without having a perspective on it.
You'll bend over backwards to treata lead swingers 1 seconds anxiety the same as something like Marcus Trescothick which genuinely affects his entire life.

It's as if you want to treat every level of mental health with the same level of attention and seriousness and accept that someone is "suffering" from mental health just because they say they are, when they are simply conflating how they feel with a genuine mental health issue

[beninho]

Ha ha, anxiety is not on the same line as being sectioned. Don't be ridiculous.

You will experience sadness, worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc all in daily life. Doesn't mean you have mental health issues.
It's called being alive.

You dont see anxiety as a mh condition? Have you looked at what anxiety did to Marcus Trescothick?  

And how you deal with worry, anxiety, lack of confidence etc is down to your individual mental health and wellbeing, is it not?

It depends on the impact, frequency and intensity Ben. You seem totally incapable of reading between the lines.
It's almost as if you see 1 seconds anxiety and a lifetime of anxiety as the same thing.

You just seem to be creating an argument here.  Of course anxiety has many forms. Same as all MH. I don't think I've said anything different.

That's the point though, you seem to want to accept every claim of mental health without having a perspective on it.
You'll bend over backwards to treata lead swingers  1 seconds anxiety the same as something like Marcus Trescothick which genuinely affects his entire life.

It's as if you want to treat every level of mental health with the same level of attention and seriousness and accept that someone is "suffering" from mental health just because they say they are, when they are simply conflating how they feel with a genuine mental health issue

As mentioned on an earlier post early intervention is a good thing, isn't it? If soneone feels that their mental wellbeing is suffering. Is the response to be, say its nothing serious, you haven't been sectioned? Or shoukd the response, be to try and help, I'm order to not reach a crisis point?

[super_realist]

Jesus, no. I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that a lot of what you seem to be aiming as mental health issues, are simply things we deal with on a daily basis and which don't affect our long term well being, therefore why are we conflating them with genuine issues?

[beninho]

We aren't, are we?

[beninho]

My position is pretty standard, and probably unarguably. I've already stated it. Mental wellbeing is people's own responsibility. If anyone feels that their mental wellbeing is being compromised, early intervention is a good thing, to stop it potentially becoming a mental health crisis.

Everyone is different, and what impacts one person may not impact another.

[beninho]

Probably need to find something we can all agree on after all that drama yesterday.

Farage and the RNLI - what's that all about?  

It's the all lives matter gang deciding that they don't all matter enough to them.

And how Farage got a tv show and remains relevant is horrendous.

[McLaren]

Ben

What other medical conditions can you diagnose? Or is it just psychiatry you can do?

[McLaren]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

I think they are unqualified to make a medical judgement.

[beninho]

Ben

What other medical conditions can you diagnose? Or is it just psychiatry you can do?

If I regular dealt with people with broken legs and worked with people from a broken leg unit, im sure I could spot that.

[beninho]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

I think they are unqualified to make a medical judgement.

People can make a judgement on their own mental wellbeing?

[McLaren]

Most mental health professionals are full of praise for public figures who are open about their mental health issues, as it removes the stigma, and people with genuine issues are more likely to come forward, rather than hide it. Of course, some kn0b-ends will always try to belittle those public figures - but that says more about the kn0b-ends, I think.

The 3 or 4 mental health professionals I know well are pretty cynical about the whole thing. Basically they have the experts version of Super realists thoughts on the matter. Anecdote is not data and all that but I presume you have a reference to a survey that says psychiatrists etc just can't get enough of whinging celebrities? :whistle:

[McLaren]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

I think they are unqualified to make a medical judgement.

People can make a judgement on their own mental wellbeing?

Well this should save the NHS a crap ton of money. We can replace the labs and MRI machines now that people can just make a call on their diagnosis.

[super_realist]

I've already explained that I don't think people are making it up, I just think they might not be clear whether it genuinely is a mental health issue or not.

You think whatever someone says is mental health is a mental health issue, I do not think everything someone claims is necessarily a mental health issue, so let's just agree to disagree.

On another note, what a special Wayne Rooney is.

[McLaren]

Probably need to find something we can all agree on after all that drama yesterday.

Farage and the RNLI - what's that all about?  

It's the all lives matter gang deciding that they don't all matter enough to them.

And how Farage got a tv show and remains relevant is horrendous.

We agree on this. Just what you expect from England circa 2021. Sadly becoming a cesspit of bigots.


I assume when they fall of a banana boat in the costa del chav they will refuse being picked up by the spanish coast guard?

[super_realist]

Ben

What other medical conditions can you diagnose? Or is it just psychiatry you can do?

If I regular dealt with people with broken legs and worked with people from a broken leg unit, im sure I could spot that.

Youre only spotting the same mental health issues that anyone else can spot.
You aren't any better placed to spot depression, bi polar, anti natal depression or any other form of mental illness that doesn't necessarily have any outward symptoms than anyone else.

[McLaren]

I don't think people are making it up, I just think they might not be clear whether it genuinely is a mental health issue or not.

How is this not obvious to everyone?

Just think about whether you would claim to have the expertise to diagnose any other medical conditions?

[super_realist]

Probably need to find something we can all agree on after all that drama yesterday.

Farage and the RNLI - what's that all about?  

It's the all lives matter gang deciding that they don't all matter enough to them.

And how Farage got a tv show and remains relevant is horrendous.

We agree on this. Just what you expect from England circa 2021. Sadly becoming a cesspit of bigots.


I assume when they fall of a banana boat in the costa del chav they will refuse being picked up by the spanish coast guard?

Couldnt the RNLI simply return them to France? Would you object to that?

[beninho]

Do people think people are lying about having mental health or mental wellbeing issues? Just making it up for a laugh?

I think they are unqualified to make a medical judgement.

People can make a judgement on their own mental wellbeing?

Well this should save the NHS a crap ton of money. We can replace the labs and MRI machines now that people can just make a call on their diagnosis.

So when should they see a Dr? When they have a breakdown, or an episode? How else can a Dr or a specialist diagnose someone if that person doesn't think they are suffering from something?

[Sponsored content]