Euro 2020 Thread (11th June-11th July)

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Starts in under a week. Might be a fun summer of football to lift the gloom of the previous 12 months.

Groups:

Full Schedule:

Outright Odds:

Portugal to defend their title? France to go one better? Germany return to prominence? Belgium finally get it right? England bring football home? Or will Scotland shock the world?

[dummy_half]

Of course the problem with going ultra-defensive is that we would be playing without the ball too much, and even when we do have it, not having anywhere to go forwards so just continually inviting pressure.

I think it's very rarely the right thing to do to try and set a team up to negate a specific opponent - the only possible exception would be if you are against an individual like Messi, where you man mark him (hell, worked for Alf Ramsey in 1966 and almost in 1970, with Bobby Charlton marking Beckenbauer).

Beckenbauer had the same instruction for those games too, man marked by the man you're man marking.

Always made more sense from the German perspective - Beckenbauer was their best defensive midfielder, while Charlton was our best attacking one. Now, getting Nobby Stiles to man-mark Der Kaiser would have been a different thing entirely...

[Afro]

I'd probably go:

——————Kane——————
Sterling—- Grealish———Saka
——Henderson——Phillips———
Shaw-Maguire-Stones-James
—————-Pickford—————

Germans have been terrible against pace so far; with their slow midfield and defence that's no surprise. So give 'em both barrels with Sterling and Saka running at them, and Rashford/Sancho able to come off the bench. After seeing Hungary's no.9 able to dominate Germany's back-line physically, Kane should have little issue.

Hopefully Henderson is fit enough to start over Rice. Phillips should be able to play a high-intensity box-to-box role for 60 or so minutes, then get Bellingham on to do likewise.

Would rather James starts over Walker. Will be the first real test for England's defence, the main threats being the fluid pair of Havertz and Gnabry. Sane has lots of pace, but little end product. Muller a possible danger off the bench, Werner not showing any real form as yet. England's full-backs should still get forward where possible, especially on Shaw's side where Kimmich usually resides for the Germans.

I do think England are favourites for this, but they must aim to play positive, front-foot football for 90 minutes. If Southgate starts with 3 CBs and two 'wing-backs', that's too negative and hands the advantage to Germany. Same if England play three central midfielders e.g. Henderson-Rice-Phillips. And England must not pull up the drawbridge if they go 1-0 up at any point, as they have in so many games in the past. Attack the opposition, seize the day.

I don't think Southgate will have a better opportunity to win a major tournament with England. It's there for the taking. Favourites for this and favourites for any potential QF or SF match-up they get. Home advantage for both this and the possible SF and F. You can't ask for a better opportunity.

Thats the exact side I would go for.

We need to load it with pace, so two of Sterling, Sako or Sancho should play. James or Walker could provide pace from right back, so you could go for either, just something about Walker makes me lean towards James.

And Henderson gave us a bit more impetus when he came on. I like Rice, but he has had a poor tournament so far, so Phillips gets the nod over him.

[Soul Requiem]

Of course the problem with going ultra-defensive is that we would be playing without the ball too much, and even when we do have it, not having anywhere to go forwards so just continually inviting pressure.

I think it's very rarely the right thing to do to try and set a team up to negate a specific opponent - the only possible exception would be if you are against an individual like Messi, where you man mark him (hell, worked for Alf Ramsey in 1966 and almost in 1970, with Bobby Charlton marking Beckenbauer).

Beckenbauer had the same instruction for those games too, man marked by the man you're man marking.

Always made more sense from the German perspective - Beckenbauer was their best defensive midfielder, while Charlton was our best attacking one. Now, getting Nobby Stiles to man-mark Der Kaiser would have been a different thing entirely...

I think Ramsay was quite astute with his tactics there. He would have known going into the game that Beckenbauer would be man marking Charlton so instead of having his two midfielders out of the game he left Stiles to do his own thing.

[Duty281]

Last 16 starts tomorrow, spread across four days. England don't get their turn until day four. To overcome Germany England will need to defy their miserable record at knock-out football in European Championships, which reads thusly:

Lost to Yugoslavia. Beat Soviet Union (meaningless third-place play-off). Beat Spain (on penalties). Lost to Germany (on penalties). Lost to Portugal (on penalties). Lost to Italy (on penalties). Lost to Iceland.

It really is a miserable record, never having beaten a team inside 120 minutes in a meaningful game. The H2H record v Germany reads a little better for England, but they still haven't beaten Germany in a knock-out tournament fixture since 1966, coming up short in 1970, 1990, 1996 and 2010.

It all changes on Tuesday, provided Southgate doesn't lose his nerve...right?

Think Denmark and Italy will record comfortable wins tomorrow, though I hope Wales do well.

[Riggs]

I've been watching other people's match predictions regarding England vs Germany.

Most are saying the Germans will win, and a lot are saying that Gareth is too conservative as a manager who takes no risks.

It is interesting to see lots of different thoughts on the matter, even if some of them are utterly unrealistic, but that's football for us.

Many are asking or questioning why Sancho hasn't played much, I also wonder why.

There is one particular commentor who states that the Germans scored 6 goals in the group of death whilst England scored much less and couldn't even get past the Scottish defence, these perspectives/thoughts really make for interesting reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5QsaXYYohE

[Duty281]

Very selective reading of stats. Could equally say that England haven't conceded a goal yet, while Germany shipped two to Hungary.

Agree about Southgate's recent conservatism, but hopefully won't be an issue on Tuesday. Would have liked Sancho to get more minutes, but Southgate opted for Saka over Sancho v the Czechs and (credit to Southgate) it worked.

Most opinions I've seen are for an England win, even the Germans don't seem too confident.

[Riggs]

Very selective reading of stats. Could equally say that England haven't conceded a goal yet, while Germany shipped two to Hungary.

Agree about Southgate's recent conservatism, but hopefully won't be an issue on Tuesday. Would have liked Sancho to get more minutes, but Southgate opted for Saka over Sancho v the Czechs and (credit to Southgate) it worked.

Most opinions I've seen are for an England win, even the Germans don't seem too confident.

The selectivity is not on my part but my observation of others.

Some Germans might seem doubtful but they could be in the minority, although they do sometimes point out Hummels mistake/s.

[Duty281]

FA clowns want to extend Southgate's contract even if it's a loss against the Germans on Tuesday.

Southgate is the ultimate FA man - I wouldn't be surprised if it were a lifetime contract on the table.

[Riggs]

FA clowns want to extend Southgate's contract even if it's a loss against the Germans on Tuesday.

Southgate is the ultimate FA man - I wouldn't be surprised if it were a lifetime contract on the table.

I'm sure someone on here said that Gareth is the FA's/or someone's yes man. I can't remember who though.

[Soul Requiem]

I've been watching other people's match predictions regarding England vs Germany.

Most are saying the Germans will win, and a lot are saying that Gareth is too conservative as a manager who takes no risks.

It is interesting to see lots of different thoughts on the matter, even if some of them are utterly unrealistic, but that's football for us.

Many are asking or questioning why Sancho hasn't played much, I also wonder why.

There is one particular commentor who states that the Germans scored 6 goals in the group of death whilst England scored much less and couldn't even get past the Scottish defence, these perspectives/thoughts really make for interesting reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5QsaXYYohE

Very interesting indeed if you haven't bothered to watch the games.

[Riggs]

I've been watching other people's match predictions regarding England vs Germany.

Most are saying the Germans will win, and a lot are saying that Gareth is too conservative as a manager who takes no risks.

It is interesting to see lots of different thoughts on the matter, even if some of them are utterly unrealistic, but that's football for us.

Many are asking or questioning why Sancho hasn't played much, I also wonder why.

There is one particular commentor who states that the Germans scored 6 goals in the group of death whilst England scored much less and couldn't even get past the Scottish defence, these perspectives/thoughts really make for interesting reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5QsaXYYohE

Very interesting indeed if you haven't bothered to watch the games.

If anything, I've watched the games, unlike some, and can clearly see.

[Pr4wn]

I've been watching other people's match predictions regarding England vs Germany.

Most are saying the Germans will win, and a lot are saying that Gareth is too conservative as a manager who takes no risks.

It is interesting to see lots of different thoughts on the matter, even if some of them are utterly unrealistic, but that's football for us.

Many are asking or questioning why Sancho hasn't played much, I also wonder why.

There is one particular commentor who states that the Germans scored 6 goals in the group of death whilst England scored much less and couldn't even get past the Scottish defence, these perspectives/thoughts really make for interesting reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5QsaXYYohE

Very interesting indeed if you haven't bothered to watch the games.

Stay classy.

[Duty281]

Wales getting completely dominated by the Danish - only saving grace for the Welsh is that they're only 1-0 down at HT and are still in it.

Denmark's goal was beautiful.

[Guest]

Denmark 2-0 Wales

Definite foul in the build up to that second goal, but Wales are horrific, and going home.

[GSC]

Hard to expect a repeat of 5 years ago, Wales are still overachieving

[Duty281]

Very poor performance from Wales. Only had the first 15 minutes then they were outplayed on every level. James and Moore totally anonymous, defence abysmal, Bale/Ramsey only present for the merest of flashes. Ends a hugely disappointing tournament for them where they only played well against a dismal Turkey.

Denmark are getting better with each game. Some of their intricate forward play and off the ball attacking movement is delightful. They'll fancy making the final with the way the draw is set.

[GSC]

3-0 now, and the scoreline better reflects the game.

[Guest]

Embarrassing that red card. Game has gone, if that is a red.

[GSC]

Harry Wilson sent off for some reason

[GSC]

Don't think we need to spend time assessing this decision

[GSC]

Think we could've probably gone home rather than spending 2 minutes on that. Anyway 4-0 now

[Cyril]

Wales thrashed. Bale being an idiot sarcastically clapping the ref twice and maybe lucky not to get a red himself. Even if the earlier ref was harsh (yellow only).

Denmark are an excellent side. Really pleased for them.

[Guest]

Denmark are an excellent side

I wouldn’t go that far

Holland, Denmark or Czech Rep in the SF. Bit drab

[Cyril]

It might have only been Wales, but Denmark utterly dismantled them. I’m not sure we’ve seen that complete a performance from one of the ‘top’ sides yet.

Denmark are getting better and better. A very good side defensively who also have plenty of goals in them.

Would it be a great tournament if all the traditional sides just sailed through? Worth remembering that they’ve won it before.

[Duty281]

Not sure I'd go as far as to say Denmark are 'excellent', but I did have them pre-tournament as the most likely outsider team to win it. They're in the right half of the draw, they're improving by the game, so they must feel optimistic about their chances.

Time for Italy-Austria. Will be the shock of the tournament if Austria won this.

[Guest]

Think you can get carried away with form in the group stages, and this is definitely showcasing Italy’s issues in the final third. They lack the firepower to really threaten the top sides, for me. I think Holland are the same.

[GSC]

Italy have been better but haven't really worked too many moments as yet. Austria doing ok overall.

[GSC]

Arnautovic looks a real handful for Austria until he gets sent off for headbutting someone off the ball

[Guest]

Arnautovic!!!!!!! 1-0

[GSC]

It's been coming, Austria have built up a head of steam since half time

[Guest]

VAR

Offside saves Italy

One things for sure, Italy look poor, and won’t threaten the top sides

[GSC]

Mancini's had enough of this midfield performance

[Guest]

VAR getting slower and slower as the comp progresses

[GSC]

Italy might nick this but it's been a bang average performance. Offered very little going forward and in midfield

[GSC]

Austrias legs have gone now I think.

[Guest]

Goes to ET

[Duty281]

Bang average from Italy. Looked complacent and flat as though they expected Austria to roll over.

[GSC]

1-0 Italy, Chiesa left alone at the back post

[Guest]

2-0 game over. Harsh on Austria.

Belgium or Portugal won’t lose sleep over facing Italy though

[Duty281]

Goodnight to Austria. Don't think it's too bad for Italy to get a bang average display out of the way, though the extra 30 minutes won't be well received.

I'm sure they'll raise their game for Belgium/Portugal. Whether it'll be enough is another matter.

Oh hang on, 2-1. Messy goal finally breaches Italy's defence.

[GSC]

Italy pretty lucky to survive. Austria full value for their disallowed goal and ran out of energy by the end. But all that really matters is surviving. Up next a Belgian side that often flatter to deceive themselves, or a Portugal side that haven't exactly lit up the tournament so far

[Guest]

Ivan Perišić tests positive for Covid, and is ruled out of the Spain game.

Huge blow for Croatia.

[Duty281]

That is a big loss for Croatia, also means he will miss the QF and (I think) SF if his side get that far. Still think it'll be a close game between them and Spain, but it's certainly tipped the balance in Spain's favour.

Should be two tight games today, backing the Czechs and Belgians to win. Both games could easily go the distance.

[Guest]

As I expected, Holland look pretty average against slightly better opposition. It’s going to be a poor SF, on this side of the draw.

I’ll go France v England or Germany for the final.

[Guest]

Red card for de ligt. Holland are crap anyway

[Duty281]

Think that's a fair call. Dutch should have scored a minute before that anyway. Great chance for the Czechs here, even if they haven't done much in the match so far.

[Guest]

Holland 0-1 Czech

Possible Czech Republic v Denmark QF. Really poor standard this year, especially this half of the draw.

[Guest]

Holland 0-2 Czech

Game over. Still can’t quite figure out how such an average Czech side have the chance of making a semi-final

[Galted]

Holland 0-1 Czech

Possible Czech Republic v Denmark QF. Really poor standard this year, especially this half of the draw.

Same as last time round, Portugal scraping through a poor half of the draw and all the quality cancelling itself out on the other half.  Hopefully it works for England this time if they can get over the first hurdle.

Seems to be a consequence of 24 going into 16 rather than 16 into 8 from the groups.

[Duty281]

Good on the Czechs. Thought they'd do it, though the red card definitely helped them along the way. Losing VVD was the killer blow to any serious hopes the Dutch had, but falling at this stage is still disappointing.

Czechs v Danes in the QFs.

England's minimum expectation is the final as Southgate gets an even dreamier draw than the 2018 WC. The way it's going for Southgate, Switzerland will probably be the team waiting in the final... if England get that far.

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