Euro 2020 Thread (11th June-11th July)

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Starts in under a week. Might be a fun summer of football to lift the gloom of the previous 12 months.

Groups:

Full Schedule:

Outright Odds:

Portugal to defend their title? France to go one better? Germany return to prominence? Belgium finally get it right? England bring football home? Or will Scotland shock the world?

[Guest]

Swiss couldn’t even beat Wales, but end up in the QF.

The way the tournament is going, it’s going to be some distinctly average sides going far, but who have incredible team spirit, and attitude

[Duty281]

Wow. The favourites out on pens after being 3-1 up with barely any time left.

Lloris terrible in goal for those five pens. Mbappe was the only one of the ten who looked nervous, no surprise he missed. Wonder if he didn't fancy it and was pushed forward because of his striker status?

Swiss somehow in the QFs, going so far they may get a nosebleed. First QF since 1954 in the two traditional major competitions - a barely believable QF that finished 7-5 to Austria back then. Now another one versus Spain, taking place all the way over in Russia.

What a day it has been in the Euros. 14 goals. Late comebacks. Sublime finishes. Dodgy defending. A penalty shoot-out. The favourites and world champions knocked out.

It's up to Southgate and England now. The Frogs have lost their legs. The defending champions have already capitulated. Home advantage and the easier side of the draw awaits - England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

[Riggs]

Well, there have been some serious shocks in this Euros.

What next? God only knows.

[Guest]

England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

I’d still have the Belgians as outright favourites. Having said that, not sure we ever get a better chance than this.

[Luke]

Swiss couldn’t even beat Wales, but end up in the QF.

The way the tournament is going, it’s going to be some distinctly average sides going far, but who have incredible team spirit, and attitude

it's been like that for a while now. Look at the last tournament,  Portugal won only beating the Welsh before extra time. And drawing all 3 group games, the Welsh were hardly brilliant but got to the semi-finals. Iceland the qfs. Greece winning in 04 by being a side exactly like you described. It's the way to.play tournament football.
But to be fair Switzerland were good tonjght, played excellently deserved to be 1-0 up at ht, and to come back from 3-1 down with 10 minutes to go by playing attacking football against the tournament favourites they were excellent.

[Luke]

It's up to Southgate and England now. The Frogs have lost their legs. The defending champions have already capitulated. Home advantage and the easier side of the draw awaits - England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

We're not favourites,  Belgium, Spain, Italy are all probably (And should be) higher rated then us.

[Soul Requiem]

If and it is a big if England beat Germany tomorrow, I think they're the favourites. Two of the three teams you mention will knock each other out of the tournament before the final, none are particularly great.

[Duty281]

It's up to Southgate and England now. The Frogs have lost their legs. The defending champions have already capitulated. Home advantage and the easier side of the draw awaits - England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

We're not favourites,  Belgium, Spain, Italy are all probably (And should be) higher rated then us.

Thing is though England only have to beat one of those nations (if they make it all the way), and at home too. If they had to beat two or more, they wouldn't be favourites, but England have landed in the soft side of the draw because of the win over the Czechs.

Italy/Belgium/Spain - their route to the trophy is a lot more problematic than England's.

And I don't think England should be fearing any of those nations. Against Spain I'd certainly make England favourites in a one-off fixture at home.

[Duty281]

England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

I’d still have the Belgians as outright favourites. Having said that, not sure we ever get a better chance than this.

I think a lot depends for the Belgians on the fitness of KDB and Hazard. They're not half the team without those two and they're both unlikely to be fit for the QF v Italy.

[Luke]

It's up to Southgate and England now. The Frogs have lost their legs. The defending champions have already capitulated. Home advantage and the easier side of the draw awaits - England are favourites for the competition and will never, ever get a better chance than this to end a 53-year barren run at major competitions. Ever.

We're not favourites,  Belgium, Spain, Italy are all probably (And should be) higher rated then us.

Thing is though England only have to beat one of those nations (if they make it all the way), and at home too. If they had to beat two or more, they wouldn't be favourites, but England have landed in the soft side of the draw because of the win over the Czechs.

Italy/Belgium/Spain - their route to the trophy is a lot more problematic than England's.

And I don't think England should be fearing any of those nations. Against Spain I'd certainly make England favourites in a one-off fixture at home.

True,
 but would still put Italy and Belguim ahead. Yes we have an easier route, but thats not always a help as can make sides complacent. And in knock out stages sides raise there game. Look at today, plus if we win tomorrow isn't our qf in Baku or something like that. And every other side in our half will be thinking exactly the same, I'm not saying England  haven't got a good chance. Just that I don't think England are favourites. After all, we have a striker that's not played well in 3 games, play a slow boring way, and our defence has given up quite a few chances.

[Luke]

Sorry not Baku, Rome.

[Duty281]

Unfortunately, it looks as though England will be playing three centre-backs and two 'wing-backs' tomorrow. It was always on the cards once Gary Neville suggested it.

Matt Law from the Telegraph (usually pretty reliable) seems to think the XI will be:

Pickford; Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw; Rice, Phillips; Foden, Kane, Sterling.

Essentially Grealish and Saka dropped, despite good performances. Rice and Phillips persisted with. Trippier back in at wing-back (presumably because set-pieces) with Walker shifting to the centre. One less attacker. Southgate wants to think about the Germans rather than giving them something to think about.

Think it would be a disappointing and insipid selection, if true. Initiative handed to the Germans.

[Luke]

Think it's more a way of matching up with the Germans, and trying to stop the width that they enjoy. Hungrey did the same, with some joy. 
Personally I agree, stick with the formation that's got you this far,and make them worry about us.
Also agree about Saka and Grealish, Saka can play as a wing back if you want to go that way, and Grealish should start, maybe ahead of Foden.

[Duty281]

Yeah, I get what Southgate's trying to do - nulify Germany's wing-backs with a wider defence - I just think it's entirely the wrong thing to do. First of all I think the threat from Germany's wing-backs has been overhyped based on the Portugal game, where the Portuguese (particularly Semedo) were dismal in defence. Secondly, England's full-backs are naturally good enough to counteract this German threat in a back four.

I actually think Germany's greatest threat is Kroos and Gundogan (if he plays, he is a fitness doubt) dominating midfield and pinging it around like Pirlo in 2012.

Anyway, unless this is some dazzling carrot-eating subterfuge from Southgate, it will be 5ATB and two holding midfielders as other outlets are reporting it now. Phillips will have a mammoth task on his hands to link defence to attack. The 'wing-backs' will need to surge up field when England are in possession, otherwise England's front three will be isolated. Kane will need to step it up a couple of levels tonight in order to win aerial duels and hold the ball up. Sterling/Kane/Foden will have to be clinical if a chance comes because, with this sort of set up, they may only get one chance.

But I do worry England will be penned in deep for most of the game, unable to retain possession because most passes will be punts up to Kane, and have to soak up a lot of German pressure. And it's an England defence which has errors in it. Southgate, too, will be unlikely to change it up until quite late on.

It really is a frustrating selection because Germany are defensively weak and England have the attacking players to exploit  that...but Southgate isn't a man to dare and endure.

[BamBam]

David Ornstein reckons it’s 3-4-3 with Sterling and Saka supporting Kane

[Duty281]

David Ornstein reckons it’s 3-4-3 with Sterling and Saka supporting Kane

Mildly preferable to the Sterling-Kane-Foden axis simply because of Saka's pace.

[Soul Requiem]

That selection if true is as weak as Southgate's penalty in 96.

[Duty281]

Worse news even than Southgate's selection...the awful England band will be in attendance for the first time in a while.

https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1409766911697637376

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Worse news even than Southgate's selection...the awful England band will be in attendance for the first time in a while.  

https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1409766911697637376

This along with the team news - my it's coming home meter is not confident for 5pm today

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Swiss couldn’t even beat Wales, but end up in the QF.

The way the tournament is going, it’s going to be some distinctly average sides going far, but who have incredible team spirit, and attitude

Sorry but isn't this snobbery? Just because a side isn't fancied, or a traditional powerhouse of the game, doesn't make them 'average'. Switzerland played some excellent football last night, just as they did against us. They wouldn't have won if they hadn't.

Being a big name doesn't entitle you to anything. Maybe on some level the French thought it did.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Worse news even than Southgate's selection...the awful England band will be in attendance for the first time in a while.  

https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1409766911697637376

The question is, who actually likes the England band?

[alfie]

Fantastic finish from Morata, worthy of winning any tie.

Looks like it wound up a few morons behind the goal too.

5-3 Spain to finish. Mad game, but deserved for the Spanish who controlled it for the most part. France will expose their defensive frailties, however, presuming of course the French get through tonight,

World class hex

[Duty281]

Worse news even than Southgate's selection...the awful England band will be in attendance for the first time in a while.  

https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1409766911697637376

The question is, who actually likes the England band?

A mystery to us all. The FA must like them because they pay them to attend.

[GSC]

Can't decide whether I find the buildup to this match more cringey or embarrassing. Media playing up to a war more than 2 generations ago, while the Germans have no reason to even consider it a sporting rivalry.

[GSC]

Actually throw sad in as a late contender

[Oakdene]

It's doing my head in, have turned the radio off & put music play lists on!!

[Soul Requiem]

Can't decide whether I find the buildup to this match more cringey or embarrassing. Media playing up to a war more than 2 generations ago, while the Germans have no reason to even consider it a sporting rivalry.

It is most certainly a sporting rivalry, numerous significant matches between the two sides.

[GSC]

That the Germans invariably win on their way to actually winning stuff while we obsess over a semi final loss 25 years ago. The Germans themselves consider Holland/Italy as more realistic rivals

[Duty281]

All the H2H games at major tournaments between these two nations (7 in total) have been close affairs. England triumphant in two, one draw (1982 group stage), and four German wins (two on penalties). It's a H2H that England haven't had much luck with, hopefully they get a little bit today.

And I think it is fair to call it a rivalry, even if it isn't Germany's biggest rivalry. For cultural/national reasons the Dutch are probably the German's greatest rivals, in terms of outright competition it may be Italy or Brazil. England's biggest rivals should be Scotland, but that isn't practical for obvious reasons.

[GSC]

Either way, just present on its own terms, a world champion team clinging to the end of its cycle vs a maturing team trying to start its own cycle. Spare me the jingoistic garbage, it's not relevant in 2021 and extremely boring

[Soul Requiem]

That the Germans invariably win on their way to actually winning stuff while we obsess over a semi final loss 25 years ago. The Germans themselves consider Holland/Italy as more realistic rivals

1966 4-2 AET
1970 2-3 AET
1972 1-3
1972 0-0
1982 0-0
1990 1-1 pens
1996 1-1 pens
2000 1-0
2000 0-1 last match at old Wembley
2001 5-1
2010 1-4 ghost goal

All significant , there's not been a great deal in the actual matches.

[alfie]

Can't agree with Just John that Portugal deserved anything though : if you can't beat the keeper despite having loads of chances is that bad luck or failure of execution ? Reckon Belgium were well worth the win -

Belgium had one shot on target and once they lost KDB, they stunk out the second half. Agree Portugal’s finishing was poor, but 23 shots on goal, hitting the post, and having Dias’ header cleared off the line, was more than enough to warrant an equaliser and extra time. Although it created a good spectacle, I was extremely disappointed in both sides, in all honesty.

As for Ronaldo, I think he will comfortably make the WC in 18 months.

Yeah fair points , John. I might be letting my slight bias towards Belgium show there ...I do like them as a team. But I still think they earned their win , even if Portugal might have claims to be a bit unlucky with some close ones. Extra time might have been a bit more spectacle too...

We will see what happens with Ronaldo.

[alfie]

Have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed these knock out games so far. Some great goals , some comical errors and comebacks and shocks as well...what's not to like ?

Hope I can still say the same after tonight's match

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Fully in favour of a 3-4-3, no problem at all. 

We have a solid look and matching up probably suits us more than them, they have been criticised home and abroad for not functioning well in that system. 

Little wary of Saka, it's a big game and personal battles are going to be huge. But he's smart, so hopefully he adapts for his opponent. Also worried losing Mount takes away our pressing and the energy in the middle.

Henderson seems likely, although I think he's clearly weaker than Rice and Phillips, so it's who goes with him. Don't trust Henderson holding, it isn't his role, but not sure he'll get about enough for the other role. Won't happen, but I'd like to see a back three with Rice in the middle.

[alfie]

Can't decide whether I find the buildup to this match more cringey or embarrassing. Media playing up to a war more than 2 generations ago, while the Germans have no reason to even consider it a sporting rivalry.

Some garbage news media just can't resist that rubbish. Best ignored : people on here have more sense and can just look forward to a (hopefully) good game of football.

However this goes , I have the distinct impression that Southgate has been at some pains to take a lot of the "history " out of this match so that his players aren't burdened with any extra pressure from stuff that doesn't really need to distract them from doing a job. I think this is wise.

Whether he gets the team and tactics right remains to be seen...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Can't decide whether I find the buildup to this match more cringey or embarrassing. Media playing up to a war more than 2 generations ago, while the Germans have no reason to even consider it a sporting rivalry.

Some garbage news media just can't resist that rubbish. Best ignored : people on here have more sense and can just look forward to a (hopefully) good game of football.

However this goes , I have the distinct impression that Southgate has been at some pains to take a lot of the "history " out of this match so that his players aren't burdened with any extra pressure from stuff that doesn't really need to distract them from doing a job. I think this is wise.

Whether he gets the team and tactics right remains to be seen...

This is it, there's not much that supporters can do about any over-the-top coverage. On the other hand, the papers wouldn't come out with this stuff if there wasn't a market for it.

[Soul Requiem]

Germany now big favourites.

[Duty281]

Pickford; Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw; Rice, Phillips; Saka, Kane, Sterling.

England's team as dismal and disappointing as expected. Imagine having Grealish, Foden and Mount at your disposal, and you don't play a single one because you'd rather play 5ATB.

Neuer; Ginter, Hummels, Rudiger; Kimmich, Gosens, Kroos, Goretzka; Muller, Havertz, Werner.

No Gundogan for the Germans, a big loss, and Gnabry plonked on the bench. Muller the only man still playing from the 2010 meeting. Their front line isn't terrifying, but Kroos and Goretzka have the potential to run the midfield show, especially seeing as how England are more obsessed about the lesser threat of the wing-backs. The defence certainly has the potential for errors.

Fingers crossed for England.

[Guest]

Negative stuff from England, not overly optimistic

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It's a shame this isn't the 8 o'clock kick off, I don't finish until 6.

[Pal Joey]

It's a shame this isn't the 8 o'clock kick off, I don't finish until 6.

2am here. Just had a 4 hour power sleep and an intense dream about a sandwich shop. The food looked so real!

Should be a good game I hope. At least we can put all the hype behind us now.

[Riggs]

England will have to be firing on all cylinders to get past the Germans at this level(knockout).

I wish England the best but I won't underestimate the Germans unlike some.

[Guest]

Even first half. Kane & Werner blowing their chances. Two pretty poor sides in all honesty, with no real quality in the final third.

Rice & Phillips both booked, so I’d imagine one gets hooked relatively soon.

[Duty281]

Southgate's negativity costing England.

Germany are happy to stand-off, there's absolutely no need for three centre-backs. England are getting plenty of ball, but don't have enough attackers. They need Grealish/Foden/Mount in behind Kane to offer another threat. At the moment England can't create enough.

Sterling and Saka causing problems, as expected. Shaw playing well and getting forward, Trippier (only in the side for set-pieces) not so much. Would rather James was on. Phillips showing a good range of passing and playing his role well, though that YC (could have easily been red) could cause problems. Rice is playing atrociously, this is clearly a level too far for him. He needs to come off at HT, complete liability. Maguire looking inspired in defence. Walker/Stones less good, losing runners on occasion.

Germans are bang average - far from world-class - as expected. Defence looks vulnerable, especially Rudiger. Kroos and Goretzka doing OK in possession, less so off-the-ball. Havertz the main danger, finding plenty of space and has the passing range to make England pay. Werner's in the expected poor form like at Chelsea, I never thought he'd score that one-on-one. Muller not in it.

If Germany are braver, and press higher, as in the first ten minutes, they can make it a very difficult afternoon for England. Southgate needs to get Rice off for Henderson, and Grealish (preferably) or Foden on for Walker and adjust the tactical shape. Then don't be afraid to throw Sancho and possibly Rashford on late.

Think Kane will score in this second half. He looks up for it.

[Samo]

Think Kane will score in this second half. He looks up for it.

Have we been watching the same game? He’s been rubbish. He should be the first one off.

[owen10ozzy]

England essentially playing 7 at the back. Shaw & Trippier not got forward enough or play high enough to be considered Wing Backs...

This 2nd half essentially Sterling has been running at a sea of black with absolutely no support. The distance between our 2 midfielders & the front 3 means its impossible to break with anything other than 3 against 5/6 German players defending.

Kane has been extremely poor again, fitness not the issue for me its whats going on between the ears with regards club future.

Team that wins this will be the one who makes the more positive change first;

[Guest]

England 1-0 Germany

Sterling tap in

[Duty281]

Get the feck in. First bit of intricate, swift attacking play all day.

Sterling can't stop scoring.

[Guest]

Shocking miss from Muller

[Riggs]

The German defence did not anticipate the English strike, well done England......but can you keep it up?

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