Euro 2020 Thread (11th June-11th July)

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Starts in under a week. Might be a fun summer of football to lift the gloom of the previous 12 months.

Groups:

Full Schedule:

Outright Odds:

Portugal to defend their title? France to go one better? Germany return to prominence? Belgium finally get it right? England bring football home? Or will Scotland shock the world?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Managed the Germany game brilliantly, managed the Denmark game (from a goal down) well. Didn’t make the right calls in a game we lost on penalties.

Italy lose then surely they would have been the mismanaged side who had England on the ropes but never finished them off.

[Duty281]

I'll wait and see where they go from here. With a lot more hope than I've had for a long time.

I don't feel much hope. Next World Cup the first 'big' nation England come up against and it's a back five and pack your bags time, or maybe pray the penalty dice go England's way. Sure, England will beat Paraguay, South Korea, Egypt and Sweden on the way to give us some optimism, but it'll doubtless come crashing down vs a tier-one side.

OK , Eeyore     If you want to be glass half empty , fair enough : I don't have enough years left to wait another fifty five so will have to remain glass half full and hope it comes home soon...

In all seriousness: do you not think they can improve ? Not saying they're going to the next WC as favourites but surely they are in a whole different universe now to the mob that crashed out to Iceland just five years ago ...

I'm gutted this morning but will take more good out of the last few weeks than disappointment.

Some of the players will certainly improve, no doubt. Bellingham, Saka, Sancho, Foden in particular. Rashford, too, if he can get fit again (he badly needs a long period of recuperation, has been running on empty for months). The England team, as a whole, will get better in the run-up to Qatar.

But Southgate won't. Southgate's been in management for years and around football for decades. He won't suddenly turn up at Qatar and be able to read games and make good substitutions. He won't suddenly play with positive intent against 'big' nations...if he doesn't do it at a home tournament then he never will. Southgate will continue straitjacketing this fantastic array of attacking talent that England have and hindering their chances. He handed Germany the initiative in that game, and he set England up completely wrong tonight. Next tournament will be the same, drawbridge coming up as soon as England face a good name. It's because Southgate's first port of call when coming up against tier-one/big name opposition is 'how do we stop them?' not 'how do we beat them?'.

Just for clarity, I'm not asking England to go ultra-attacking or gung-ho. I'm only asking for 4-2-3-1 which is England's best formation with this crop of players. Tonight was more 5-3-1-1.

[Samo]

Its a shame that last night is being blighted by the actions of “fans” in and around the stadium, and the ones dishing out racist abuse towards Saka, Sancho and Rashford.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

My heart goes out to Rashford, Sancho and Sako...

What was Sterling, Grealish, Phillips thinking allowing a 19 year old kid to take the biggest kick of a ball in a generation. I'm particularly annoyed with sterling, been talking him up for months, he looked like he was developing into a leader then bottles it.

They didnt decide....Southgate did. Thats incredible!

Fellas, I may disagree with your Southgate takes (ultimately we’re all allowed our opinion on that), but surely you’re aware penalty takers would have been chosen well in advance based on how they’ve been taking them in training etc? It’s not just a whim and luck, throwing around the word “bottled” is ridiculous too.

A gutting result, would agree with the consensus that we just got too deep in the second half, after playing really well in the first half I thought. They still didn’t create really anything bar a Chiesa cut in and shot from open play mind, and the goal was a bit jammy…do think they just about edged it overall.
Only thing I really didn’t understand from Southgate was playing Sterling off the right hand side and Mount off the left, when Sterling has basically been player of the tournament playing off the left wing and linking up with Shaw. The subs, could see logic behind (but ultimately they didn’t play well, Henderson was abysmal), but don’t see why that Sterling switch of sides was done.

But still proud of how far they’ve come as an England side, and what Southgate has done so far. A group of players who actually seem to enjoy England duty and play with each other, that has made strides in knockout football, and has huge potential for the future. Think Southgate needs to work on evolving the style of play over the next 18 months before Qatar, and looking forward to seeing which of the youngsters establish themselves (I’m really hoping Bellingham can alongside Rice in CM, and Foden as the 10/CAM).

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Also not really sure how Donnarumma ended up with the player of the tournament trophy - not even the best Italian player at the tournament?!

[Duty281]

I'm not sure it's wise to select penalty takers based on what they did in training. I'd expect most players at this standard to be able to score the vast majority of penalties they take in training, a mostly pressure-free environment. When it comes down to it in an actual game you need to select players who are 'up for it' and are not being crushed with nerves. A willing volunteer is worth far more than someone pressed.

Agree about Sterling playing on the right. The Shaw/Sterling combo has been the brightest attacking outlet for England at this tournaments, but Southgate had to change it because he was focused on stopping the opposition. Kane had a very poor night yesterday - not helping his 'big game' reputation - but I lost count of the number of hopeful punts sent his way. What hope did he have on winning an aerial duel with Bonucci/Chiellini?

I wasn't too surprised about Donnarumma winning best player, but only because I checked the odds before kick-off and saw that he was 4/1 second favourite (Sterling 7/4 favourite). Agree that there have been better Italians at this tournament!

[GSC]

A lot riding on Bellingham's progression in the next 18 months. Still just don't have quality options in there still, Phillips makes the hard yards, and performed well in this tournament, but he's the kinda of player you'd prefer to be a squad player rather than a every game starter. Henderson clearly wasnt fit as the first guy off the bench in that area.

As defensive as England got, they were also forced back by Verratti and Jorginho controlling the ball. If we're going to give our attacking players a platform, we need to control games in that area.

[GSC]

Anyway it's raw and it hurts like hell right now. but that doesn't invalidate how far England have come. Next step is the hardest step of all though.

[dummy_half]

Reminded me a bit of the Croatia WC semi final, in that we got off to a good start and had the edge through most of the first half - unlike the Croatia game, we didn't quite manage to create 3 or 4 really good chances, but there were quite a lot of 'nearly but not quite' moments.

Second half just got pushed back too far and were unable to stop the Italians in the midfield - the weakness of playing Rice and Phillips together is that there was a hole right in the middle.

With us getting pushed so far back, it was crying out much earlier for a sub who could carry the ball out of our half - I'd probably have gone with Sancho ahead of Saka, but it was unfortunate that it was then Saka's poorest game of the tournament. You can't defend a 1-0 lead for an entire game against a side as good as Italy.

Also, we were back to having the Sterling that runs down blind alleys too much, and Kane being anonymous (or marked / fouled / held / tugged / tripped out of the game by some crafty Italian central defenders).

Grealish brought on too late - for me either he or one of the pacey wingers should have started in place of Mount. Can understand picking Mount as the tip of the midfield three, but not in the attacking 3, as we have better creative players.

Agree with an earlier comment - Rashford scores his penalty and we win. Would have changed the pressure dynamic.

Anyway, on to the world cup. Hopefully another 18 months development will see Bellingham and Foden blossom while we don't really lose anyone from the squad (Walker will be about 33, is I think the oldest of the regular starters from this tournament).

[Duty281]

I really hope this Southgate getting knighted story isn't true. That would be utterly daft. Might as well give Tim Henman one.

[GSC]

Fairly sure that was only if we won

[Duty281]

I thought so, too, but now it's being reported he'll get knighted anyway:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/euros-2020-knighthood-expected-gareth-southgate-england-final-italy-1098552

[Soul Requiem]

The abuse the trio are receiving is vile but unfortunately not unexpected. Saka is 19 for christ sake and he's receiving death threats for merely missing a penalty, utterly shameful. Thankfully for them the one thing the management team have is unquestionable compassion, they'll come back from this stronger.

Rashford ensured that your children have been fed for the past year and you then dare treat him like this.

Utter scum.

[dyrewolfe]

As dummy half said, this was almost a re-run of the Croatia game in 2018...the main difference being the Croatians put us out of our misery in normal time.

Absolutely gutted as I feel Italy were very beatable...clearly shown by that early goal. Felt we were good for most of the first half and showed decent attacking intent. Guys like Kane and Rice were brilliant at winning the ball and driving us forward, pinging the ball wide and helping set up chances. Defensively we looked solid as well. That said we were hanging on a bit for the last 10. Put that down to us just wanting to see the half out.

Alarm bells were ringing for me pretty early on in the second half. Was worried by the way we just sat back and let Italy come at us. On the rare occasions we got the ball, we'd get so far forward, then stop and pass all the way back into our own half...or we lost possession and had to scramble back to defend.

Italy were comfortably the better team for the 2nd 45. Both teams looked like they had settled for penalties in extra time. Thats when I knew it was over for us.

Overall its been a good tournament for England. Won our group and didn't concede a goal until the semi finals. Beat our old enemy Germany. Its progress and I hope Southgate and the lads go on to take that final step in Qatar next year.

But the nagging disappointment remains that we could (and probably should) have been crowned European Champions last night, if we had just been braver and continued to take the game to Italy, instead of trying to sit on a 1-0 lead for 50-60 minutes.

[GSC]

It's a very sad reflection of current society. Social media companies pass the buck, politicians enable these bellends and encourage them to boo their own players with transparently false reasoning like Marxism, who then send out junior staffers to quickly buy replica tops when England succeed.

Whoever these pricks are should be named and shamed so they can own these comments in everyday life.

[Duty281]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/12354148/gareth-southgate-says-he-wants-to-lead-england-to-2022-world-cup-in-qatar

Southgate says he wants to lead England to Qatar, but also says that leading your country at a tournament takes its toll and he doesn't want to outstay his welcome, so overall he doesn't sound too sure. FA set to offer an extension up to the 2024 Euros.

Will be interesting to see what Southgate does.

[dyrewolfe]

Its a shame that last night is being blighted by the actions of “fans” in and around the stadium, and the ones dishing out racist abuse towards Saka, Sancho and Rashford.

Its disgusting. Its like we can't have any kind of major event without some idiots or thugs trying to ruin it.

While its equally vile, I'm guessing not many are surprised about the continued online abuse of players. Its long overdue that we had some legislation and police powers granted (if necessary) to track down these scumbags and lock them up.

[GSC]

I think on the balance of things, given the progression shown since 2016, Southgate has more than earned the right to lead England into Qatar.

But the bar has now been raised. Not saying England have to win the world cup because that's just a ludicrous expectation to set, but they have to progress on the pitch and go deep again.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I think the way Southgate approached both the Germany and Italy games reflected his comments in the week about 'people trying to invade us.' It was hold what we have, rather than what can we take. I wonder if England will actually benefit from not being hosts. The freest they looked all tournament was in Rome against Ukraine.

As sh!t as it must feel for English supporters this morning, you'll have to believe me that the rest of us would kill to be runners up at a major tournament.

[Duty281]

Its a shame that last night is being blighted by the actions of “fans” in and around the stadium, and the ones dishing out racist abuse towards Saka, Sancho and Rashford.

Its disgusting. Its like we can't have any kind of major event without some idiots or thugs trying to ruin it.

While its equally vile, I'm guessing not many are surprised about the continued online abuse of players. Its long overdue that we had some legislation and police powers granted (if necessary) to track down these scumbags and lock them up.

It is vile, but it's a tiny minority of the population at large. There's far more sympathy and love for Saka/Rashford/Sancho today than there is hate. Not sure whether you can ever stop that tiny minority who drink too much/fight/post targeted abuse on the internet.

[Duty281]

I think on the balance of things, given the progression shown since 2016, Southgate has more than earned the right to lead England into Qatar.

But the bar has now been raised. Not saying England have to win the world cup because that's just a ludicrous expectation to set, but they have to progress on the pitch and go deep again.

He has definitely earned the right to. The World Cup won't be much harder than the Euros to win because South American football is in a state, and despite some signs of potential no footballing powerhouse has emerged from Asia or Africa.

For the next World Cup I'd just like to see England beat a good team at a major tournament and play well in the process. I also hope they wear rainbow armbands for at least one game over in Qatar.

[GSC]

The morons fighting will never change, and while it's embarrassing, it's not really on the same level as the online abuse. Don't think we can really sit here and write that off as a minority group for too much longer.

Take away their cloak of anonymity, and you'll very quickly find they're not nearly as brave to do these online (because we all know they wouldn't do them in person), and for those that still do, the decent people in society will take care of the rest (as a certain person trending on twitter this morning will likely find out, as relates to his employment status).

But I don't really see this government looking to rein in some of their most vocal supporters anytime soon...

[Duty281]

Judging by a video that is circulating, Pickford would have been penalty taker 6 and Phillips 7.

Goodness me...

[Duty281]

BBC thrashed ITV in the ratings battle. About 25m watched on the BBC compared to 6m on ITV.

[Samo]

BBC thrashed ITV in the ratings battle. About 25m watched on the BBC compared to 6m on ITV.

BBC for the commentary, ITV for the punditry.

[dummy_half]

I think on the balance of things, given the progression shown since 2016, Southgate has more than earned the right to lead England into Qatar.

But the bar has now been raised. Not saying England have to win the world cup because that's just a ludicrous expectation to set, but they have to progress on the pitch and go deep again.

He has definitely earned the right to. The World Cup won't be much harder than the Euros to win because South American football is in a state, and despite some signs of potential no footballing powerhouse has emerged from Asia or Africa.

For the next World Cup I'd just like to see England beat a good team at a major tournament and play well in the process. I also hope they wear rainbow armbands for at least one game over in Qatar.

The biggest difficulty with the next WC is just playing in Qatar. I believe all the stadia will be air conditioned, but there will still be a need to train outdoors and even in winter it will be in the 30s. I've been to Doha twice with work, and it is a place where the only exercise you wnt to do is swimming.

I hope the one lesson Southgate takes from this tournament is that being TOO defensive is a bad thing, and that sitting on a 1-0 is not going to be enough against the really good sides. We have a very good group of young players coming through, mostly who are excellent technicians and with strong attacking instincts - it's now a case of trying to integrate these players into what is a solid side, to make it better.

Of course there was a spell under Southgate where we were quite free-scoring, but somehow we've lost our way in that regard.

[Duty281]

I think on the balance of things, given the progression shown since 2016, Southgate has more than earned the right to lead England into Qatar.

But the bar has now been raised. Not saying England have to win the world cup because that's just a ludicrous expectation to set, but they have to progress on the pitch and go deep again.

He has definitely earned the right to. The World Cup won't be much harder than the Euros to win because South American football is in a state, and despite some signs of potential no footballing powerhouse has emerged from Asia or Africa.

For the next World Cup I'd just like to see England beat a good team at a major tournament and play well in the process. I also hope they wear rainbow armbands for at least one game over in Qatar.

The biggest difficulty with the next WC is just playing in Qatar. I believe all the stadia will be air conditioned, but there will still be a need to train outdoors and even in winter it will be in the 30s. I've been to Doha twice with work, and it is a place where the only exercise you wnt to do is swimming.

I hope the one lesson Southgate takes from this tournament is that being TOO defensive is a bad thing, and that sitting on a 1-0 is not going to be enough against the really good sides. We have a very good group of young players coming through, mostly who are excellent technicians and with strong attacking instincts - it's now a case of trying to integrate these players into what is a solid side, to make it better.

Of course there was a spell under Southgate where we were quite free-scoring, but somehow we've lost our way in that regard.

Yes, that's very true. Was looking at the temperatures in Qatar for November/December last year and it seems to be constantly 25-35 degrees. Possession will be so important and England can't afford to spend so much time chasing the ball.

I'm not anticipating too many changes between now and Qatar. Unlike usual tournament cycles, there's only one season and a couple of months before the next tournament, but yes I do hope Southgate manages to achieve a greater attacking focus.

[GSC]

It's gonna come down to the midfield still imo. Doesn't matter too much what attacking talent we have out if we end up ceding control of the midfield again like last night and Croatia. Gotta find some players who can take and distribute the ball in that area under pressure, or Verrati and Jorginho will pass us to death again.

Hopefully that's Bellingham

[dummy_half]

It's gonna come down to the midfield still imo. Doesn't matter too much what attacking talent we have out if we end up ceding control of the midfield again like last night and Croatia. Gotta find some players who can take and distribute the ball in that area under pressure, or Verrati and Jorginho will pass us to death again.

Hopefully that's Bellingham

Back 4 much as is, one of Rice or Phillips in a more defensive role and a more box to box player alongside which may well be Bellingham. Foden as a 10 / proper attacking midfield, Sancho and Sterling to do the running and Kane to lead the line.

[alfie]

It's gonna come down to the midfield still imo. Doesn't matter too much what attacking talent we have out if we end up ceding control of the midfield again like last night and Croatia. Gotta find some players who can take and distribute the ball in that area under pressure, or Verrati and Jorginho will pass us to death again.

Hopefully that's Bellingham

Back 4 much as is, one of Rice or Phillips in a more defensive role and a more box to box player alongside which may well be Bellingham. Foden as a 10 / proper attacking midfield, Sancho and Sterling to do the running and Kane to lead the line.

That sounds pretty good. Add Grealish poised to come on around the hour mark , I presume ? Plenty of attacking options - and I agree for all the good work Rice and Phillips did over the last couple of weeks it is probably the midfield which can potentially be improved and provide the key to the next step...

[dummy_half]

Grealish would be an option for Foden, or a very handy sub.

I think this tournament ahs shown that concerns over Pickford, Stones and Maguire at the heart of the defence have been over-played and we don't need two principally holding midfielders in front of them. If only we had a young Steven Gerrard coming through...

[dyrewolfe]

BBC thrashed ITV in the ratings battle. About 25m watched on the BBC compared to 6m on ITV.

BBC for the commentary, ITV for the punditry.

Also BBC for lack of annoying ads.

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