England v Canada

by Geordie Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

Saturday 10th July, 3pm KO.

15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
14. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 39 caps)
12. Dan Kelly (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
11. Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 1 cap)
9. Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 1 cap)

1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)
2. Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
3. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
4. Harry Wells (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
6. Lewis Ludlow (C) (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
8. Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, uncapped)

FINISHERS
16. Curtis Langdon (Sale Sharks, 1 cap)
17. Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)
18. Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
19. Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
20. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 9 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 13 caps)
22. George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
23. Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 5 caps)

by No 7&1/2 Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:54 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Well Eddie has found himself a potential new back three. Really good balance at the back there. Composure, power, pace and good skills.

Midfield actually had balance which meant both players flourished. Kelly looks a bit to raw at present but certainly showed that he'll be a continuing option going forward as he gets more game time at Prem level. Slade's best game for England this year.

Half backs, again a lot of promise. Lacked a little bit of structure at times but generally controlled the game well.

Backrow, last we see of Ludlow who was lucky not to get a red card. Underhill was Underhill. Dombrandt looked strong ball in hand but unsure whether he did enough in defence for Eddie.

Lock, two club level players both did well in patches but gave away to many penalties. Shouldn't be many more caps going there way.

Front row, should be plenty of caps still to come from them. Genge was all action and just what we wanted from him. Blamire looked really good, if he backs this up in the Autumn looks like he's the natural successor to George. Heyes was industrious, should move him into third spot if he wants to advance further he needs to carry more and for greater effect.

We clearly saw different things from Slade. What were you impressed by. From missed kicks to touch, sloppy passes and bad defence both in positioning and tackling i was underwhelmed.

by Poorfour Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:56 pm

What did you see from Slade to warrant that assessment FKA Sam?

I thought that the 12 & 13 combination was one of the worst I’ve seen from England. Lots of effort from Kelly but far too many mistakes; Slade was good clearing up loose ball but added little in other areas of the game.

by lostinwales Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:57 pm

Poorfour wrote:What did you see from Slade to warrant that assessment FKA Sam?

I thought that the 12 & 13 combination was one of the worst I’ve seen from England. Lots of effort from Kelly but far too many mistakes; Slade was good clearing up loose ball but added little in other areas of the game.

His work in the maul for Blamire's 2nd was pretty good

by No 7&1/2 Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:01 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Poorfour wrote:What did you see from Slade to warrant that assessment FKA Sam?

I thought that the 12 & 13 combination was one of the worst I’ve seen from England. Lots of effort from Kelly but far too many mistakes; Slade was good clearing up loose ball but added little in other areas of the game.

His work in the maul for Blamire's 2nd was pretty good

Was that the one where he joined in front of Blamire and could have cost the try if a tmo had a proper look?

by Mr Bounce Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:03 pm

I actually think Heyes played well enough to worry Stuart as the back up gig for Sinckler. I think he's a natural.

Loving the look of Radwan, Steward, Randall, Smith and Blamire. They have serious potential. I think that Dombrandt will improve with age and experience. I liked what Kelly brought to the table too. Big Joe is looking like his old destructive self again.

Players that won't reappear any time soon? Davison and Langdon were anonymous, Ludlow was also a bit of a blank space. Unsure on Hill. Barely did anything wrong but hey, there are 3 excellent players in front of him. Furbank a long way down the pecking order but Eddie seems to like him. McNally and Wells gave away pointless penalties as did Ewels.

Is this the last we see of players like May and Ford? And is Daly now going to be a 13?

by lostinwales Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:13 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:I actually think Heyes played well enough to worry Stuart as the back up gig for Sinckler. I think he's a natural.

Loving the look of Radwan, Steward, Randall, Smith and Blamire. They have serious potential. I think that Dombrandt will improve with age and experience. I liked what Kelly brought to the table too. Big Joe is looking like his old destructive self again.

Players that won't reappear any time soon? Davison and Langdon were anonymous, Ludlow was also a bit of a blank space. Unsure on Hill. Barely did anything wrong but hey, there are 3 excellent players in front of him. Furbank a long way down the pecking order but Eddie seems to like him. McNally and Wells gave away pointless penalties as did Ewels.

Is this the last we see of players like May and Ford? And is Daly now going to be a 13?

Ford must be in some danger. May I don't know. 2 years ago he was the best winger in Europe and he creates some stunning moments, but he hasn't had a good season overall. I think he's still an exceptional player but if he starts losing any pace then his place will be under threat. However promising Radwan was (and he was fantastic) this was only Canada and a big reason he looked so good was that he was given the space to do his thing.

Radwan was very competent, and is very good at changing direction at full speed. I do really hope we see more of him.

by lostinwales Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:15 pm

I do think we may have seen the last of Robson as well. I suspect Randall is going to be back up 9 for as long as Youngs is still 1st choice. JVP could also be knocking on the door some time in the next couple of seasons

by formerly known as Sam Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:25 pm

Poorfour wrote:What did you see from Slade to warrant that assessment FKA Sam?

I thought that the 12 & 13 combination was one of the worst I’ve seen from England. Lots of effort from Kelly but far too many mistakes; Slade was good clearing up loose ball but added little in other areas of the game.

Maybe my expectations of Slade have been eroded over time. I thought the midfield ran lines that gave Smith options and distributed out to the wide channels in a positive way. Much difference from last week and the 6N where Slade made no input into the England backline. Kelly looked raw but he's not long turned 20, he ran the lines you'd want and beat some defenders. Other than getting to narrow the defence was fine. The balance between what they offered meant we had a presence in midfield unlike last week where it was a void after Lawrence went to the wing. I wouldn't retain either for the AIs but maybe Eddie will actually learn that midfield balance is important.

by maverickmak Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:40 pm

I expected Slade to stand out more against this opposition as a senior man, like Genge and Underhill did. I think Kelly carried effectively all game, without being box office.

by doctor_grey Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:53 pm

Maybe Eddie Jones should check who was the Lions Player of the Match at 13.

by lostinwales Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:02 pm

It may be that Steward has mad a successful play for the FB slot, which leaves us with a shootout between Slade, Lawrence, Marchant, Daly and possibly Odogwu for 13

by formerly known as Sam Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:16 pm

lostinwales wrote:It may be that Steward has mad a successful play for the FB slot, which leaves us with a shootout between Slade, Lawrence, Marchant, Daly and possibly Odogwu for 13

Depends what Eddie wants from his 15, selecting Daly and Malins there suggests that he wants a real attacking impetus which isn't Steward's strongest point. If Eddie deviates from the prior plan the Steward can offer somethings going forward but quite a lot more in terms of commanding the backfield. AI selection will be interesting.

by cb Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Overall not terrible from England but do they practice giving away stupid penalties?

Some odd decisions. Joe Marchant has been one of the form 13's in the premiership - why not bring off Slade (who I did not think was having an outstanding game) rather than play him on the wing.

Also I can see using Slade for kicks to left-hand touch line but not the right?

In terms of Furbank at 10, he must have at least Ford, Farrell, Smith, Umaga, Simmonds plus several of the very young FH's in front of him?

I thoughts Wells played better than Ewels.

Ludlow is a very good premiership player but I am not sure what he brings above several other players. I would have liked to have seen Hill given a game at blindslide.

I actually thought Robson was not bad when he came on.

we now have Kelly as an England player - hope he can progress.

by Mr Bounce Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:31 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:I actually think Heyes played well enough to worry Stuart as the back up gig for Sinckler. I think he's a natural.

Loving the look of Radwan, Steward, Randall, Smith and Blamire. They have serious potential. I think that Dombrandt will improve with age and experience. I liked what Kelly brought to the table too. Big Joe is looking like his old destructive self again.

Players that won't reappear any time soon? Davison and Langdon were anonymous, Ludlow was also a bit of a blank space. Unsure on Hill. Barely did anything wrong but hey, there are 3 excellent players in front of him. Furbank a long way down the pecking order but Eddie seems to like him. McNally and Wells gave away pointless penalties as did Ewels.

Is this the last we see of players like May and Ford? And is Daly now going to be a 13?

Ford must be in some danger. May I don't know. 2 years ago he was the best winger in Europe and he creates some stunning moments, but he hasn't had a good season overall. I think he's still an exceptional player but if he starts losing any pace then his place will be under threat. However promising Radwan was (and he was fantastic) this was only Canada and a big reason he looked so good was that he was given the space to do his thing.

Radwan was very competent, and is very good at changing direction at full speed. I do really hope we see more of him.

We have a LOT of decent wingers now. Nice position to be in. I think the issue with Jonny May is that he's a complicated character who plays well when he's confident. This last season has been awful for him and it's really showed when he's been on the field for England. Getting done for pace by LRZ in the Welsh game will not have helped the confidence of a guy whose main weapon is speed.

In the build up to World Cups, Jones has been very happy to ditch those established players with lots of experience once the newer players start playing better than them. See Brown, Robshaw, Care & Teo for examples. I don't see it being any different with the current crop of players. Ford's had a good run, as has May, but neither has been playing well for a while, especially in a England shirt. Same goes for Billy V. Could be some interesting calls come November.

by No 7&1/2 Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:42 pm

Radwan is the first England ayer to score a hat trick on debut since 1989.

by Geordie Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:47 pm

I think Eddie could up bring about 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 from this squad.

Steward and Radwan would be the first two....

And purely on Smith that I rate him incredibly highly...but I am still a fan of Ford aswell..
..

by formerly known as Sam Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:50 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:I actually think Heyes played well enough to worry Stuart as the back up gig for Sinckler. I think he's a natural.

Loving the look of Radwan, Steward, Randall, Smith and Blamire. They have serious potential. I think that Dombrandt will improve with age and experience. I liked what Kelly brought to the table too. Big Joe is looking like his old destructive self again.

Players that won't reappear any time soon? Davison and Langdon were anonymous, Ludlow was also a bit of a blank space. Unsure on Hill. Barely did anything wrong but hey, there are 3 excellent players in front of him. Furbank a long way down the pecking order but Eddie seems to like him. McNally and Wells gave away pointless penalties as did Ewels.

Is this the last we see of players like May and Ford? And is Daly now going to be a 13?

Ford must be in some danger. May I don't know. 2 years ago he was the best winger in Europe and he creates some stunning moments, but he hasn't had a good season overall. I think he's still an exceptional player but if he starts losing any pace then his place will be under threat. However promising Radwan was (and he was fantastic) this was only Canada and a big reason he looked so good was that he was given the space to do his thing.

Radwan was very competent, and is very good at changing direction at full speed. I do really hope we see more of him.

We have a LOT of decent wingers now. Nice position to be in. I think the issue with Jonny May is that he's a complicated character who plays well when he's confident. This last season has been awful for him and it's really showed when he's been on the field for England. Getting done for pace by LRZ in the Welsh game will not have helped the confidence of a guy whose main weapon is speed.

In the build up to World Cups, Jones has been very happy to ditch those established players with lots of experience once the newer players start playing better than them. See Brown, Robshaw, Care & Teo for examples. I don't see it being any different with the current crop of players. Ford's had a good run, as has May, but neither has been playing well for a while, especially in a England shirt. Same goes for Billy V. Could be some interesting calls come November.

Ford has kept an underperforming backline from sinking in the last year. Not set the world alight himself but managing a dodgy achilles for months at a time wasn't likely to help that. Hopefully a fit and firing Ford who's actually had a full summer off and a proper pre season will be back to his best.

I think May is the most in danger for his place. He's traded on his pace and try scoring exploits. He's looked a bit meh since returning to Glaws, he might get a chance at the AIs but speedsters in their thirties tend to have a short shelf life.

Billy could benefit from the Championship season and then the summer off. Freshen the body up and get some of the explosive power that's been missing from his game.

by No 7&1/2 Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:03 am

I think your Leicester half backs are both on borrowed time now. There are a couple of props and a full back who will be in the team shortly though so all good!

First game in the autumn is against a yet unidentified Pacific nation so there's a good chance there's one more chance to impress for these newbies.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:17 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think your Leicester half backs are both on borrowed time now. There are a couple of props and a full back who will be in the team shortly though so all good!

First game in the autumn is against a yet unidentified Pacific nation so there's a good chance there's one more chance to impress for these newbies.

Well there needs to be a succession plan. I doubt either Ford or Youngs will continue post world cup. Youngs will be getting on and overtaken by JVP at Tigers and I suspect Ford will go and look for a new challenge whether it be League or France/Japan.

I'm also a fan of competition, it drives players to improve and at the minute the England senior team is too comfortable in nearly all positions. If the summer games have prompted questions to be asked that's all the better for the national team. Randall and Smith have looked decent but also inexperienced you've got to be looking for them to be pushing on as much as you have for a response from Youngs and Ford (who will both get a summer off and a proper pre season for the first time in a long time).

by No 7&1/2 Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:07 am

Yeah they're clearly inexperienced at international level. A run of games is called for.

by No 7&1/2 Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:34 am

doctor_grey wrote:Maybe Eddie Jones should check who was the Lions Player of the Match at 13.

Watching the game this morning I thought that this was a joke until they announced it.

by doctor_grey Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Maybe Eddie Jones should check who was the Lions Player of the Match at 13.

Watching the game this morning I thought that this was a joke until they announced it.

It's funny, mate, but for the first 10 minutes, Daly looked like he wanted a quick way home. He seriously did tighten up and played very well the rest of the way. I kind of get the feeling he looks like a reserve bench option for the Lions because he can come in and cover virtually the entire back line. The SA commentators, whom I had over here, were very complimentary. For England, overall, I think he looked like an upgrade over Slade at 13. He was involved in a lot of the action.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:29 pm

Decent game albeit a bit of a non-contest.

From a Falcons perspective, I thought Blamire and Radwan looked liked naturals. Radwan is just pure x-factor and Blamire has the credentials to become an international regular. When was the last time we had a hooker as big as him?

Genge was great, which he usually is against the poorer sides, he really needs to bring this to the better sides. Heyes was ok, nothing more than what I expected....I don't think Stewart has any concerns.

Locks, decent....Ludlow, very disappointing for me, he offers very little at this level. Dombrandt also wasn't great I didn't think, a little surprised how little impact he had.

I loved the pace that the halfbacks brought to the game, fantastic to watch.

Centres, quite underwhelming...Marchant has to be in this side, he's such a step up.

Steward looked safe, but doesn't offer too much in attack, I'm not sure he's anything more than a good AP player tbh.....our search for a FB to continue.

by No 7&1/2 Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:20 pm

Interesting as I saw Dombrandt a step ahead of most of his teammates. Love his offloads and they'll be dangerous with better set of flanker with him. Heyes I liked alot.

Daly was fine going forward bar couple of fumbled passes. I actually thought his best came from scrum half!

And Steward...its been a fair while I've felt that we've had a bit of safety at the back and I like it. Into the autumn personally I'd be focusing on 4 players, Radwan, May, Watson and Steward. Id like Cokanasiga in the squad too.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:29 pm

Steward just appears too slow and heavy footed, he's steady no more for me. I think you need a real attacking threat at 15, I don't think Steward is the man.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:44 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Steward just appears too slow and heavy footed, he's steady no more for me. I think you need a real attacking threat at 15, I don't think Steward is the man.

Steward is deceptively quick, best is to watch him in the backfield he eats up the ground with those long strides at an alarming rate. He doesn't have the quick feet though very few players who are 6ft5 and nearly 16 stone do. The attacking parts of his game have been the slowest to come on though it's an area that is improving, it's rare to find a twenty year old who's that safe at the back though and if England was to play with advanced wingers but security at the back he might bring that balance.

by Sharkey06 Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:51 am

I have to admit that I was completely underwhelmed with both games. I think our u15 team could have scrummaged better than Canada - they could also have done better at first up tackles. They made Genge look a complete world beater!. England insistence on holding the ball in every scrum until they got a penalty was completely brainles. Why could we not occasionally look to produce quick scrum ball?

Lewis Ludlow is at best an honest 100% tryer in a generally poor Gloucester team and will never get an England cap for a proper intrnational. Why not let Ted Hill or someone else who could play for England in the next world cup have a go. For all his great credentials as a leader (per Eddie) he didn't seem to give the team much leadership and was lucky not to get a red card.
I fully expect to see all the old gang picked for England come the autumn internationals, with the exception of big Joe who had a good couple of games.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:05 am

Ted Hill was injured for the Canada game otherwise I expect he would have been given another game in the row.

by Geordie Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:09 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Steward just appears too slow and heavy footed, he's steady no more for me. I think you need a real attacking threat at 15, I don't think Steward is the man.

Not sure i agree with that Sgt. I think hes looked like he has massive potential at this level. Hes a brick wall in defence and in the air...and his lines of running are excellent. He also has shown great basics in 2 on 1 situations etc...scenarios the much vaunted Elliott Daly fails almost every time.

i definitely want to see him in the AI's...

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:15 am

Just didn't see it GF. Even against the poor opposition he didn't offer much going forward.

Little harsh on the scrum Sharky, you can only beat what's infront of you.

by Soul Requiem Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:26 am

If you've got a second playmaker at 12 like Farrell then I don't see the dire need for an overly attacking full back. Being strong in the air and last man defence should be the primary concerns with everything else secondary.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:43 am

I'd say with Steward that he may look better against better opposition, odd as that sounds. There wasn't much tactical battle in these two games but USA offered more and that's the game he looked better in. Steward does need to dial in the accuracy a little on his kick returns but I would like to see him up against more challenging opposition to showcase those good defensive skills of his.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:46 am

If its a choice of Steward or Daly its not a hard choice. I still think we could see Watson at 15 come the autumn though.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:54 am

Ludlow cited then. He was unlikely to get another shot in an England team tbf (not quite sure how he ever got these 2 caps) but I'm expecting a ban for him. Didn't get the refs logic at the time, and the tmo just folded.

by Oakdene Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:21 am

As a Welshman looking in, a backline which has Watson at FB, Nowell & May on the wings, Daly & Slade (at 13 & 12) would really worry me.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:28 am

That midfield would worry me too.

by Geordie Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:38 am

Oakdene wrote:As a Welshman looking in, a backline which has Watson at FB, Nowell & May on the wings, Daly & Slade (at 13 & 12) would really worry me.

Ah i dont want Watson near the FB spot. Hes a world class winger...he should stay there.

i have actually written off Nowell now...hes never going to be reliably fit. Time to move on. May has competitors now...lots of young pretenders to his crown also...Slighthome, Hassle Collins, Radwan, Loader, Jones clearly wants Cokasaniga in the frame...

Daly is and alsways has been a 13...i'd happily see him there. Seems to be enjoying his time in SA...

Slade....meh, just never fulfilled his potential as i thought he would in a England shirt. Move around too much, from 10 to 13 etc. He skill set screams 12, but he's never played there much for Exeter or England...so we'll never know.

Besides Farrell is a shoe in at 12 anyway so its irrelevant.

by formerly known as Sam Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:42 am

Oakdene wrote:As a Welshman looking in, a backline which has Watson at FB, Nowell & May on the wings, Daly & Slade (at 13 & 12) would really worry me.

Watson passes for a Prem fullback but not at international level. He works well on the wing I'd leave him there. Nowell would be the more likely to go to fullback of those three but more likely we'll pick an actual fullback to take the shirt. Currently Malins or Steward.

Slade and Daly lacks something, a directness maybe. Slade's main issue in the current backline is he refuses to be the strike runner so the midfield stagnates. Daly as the strike runner? Not sure that'd work you want him attacking the space created.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Cockasiga
12. Manu
13. Marchant
14. Watson
15. Malins

21. Randall, 22. Smith, 23. Nowell

Now you're cooking on gas.

by Geordie Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:59 am

The sad thing there Sam is Manu....never be a reliable pick again...just like Nowell.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:28 am

I hope we can move on from Youngs and Ford may struggle to get back in too.

Personally, I rate Ford, I'd like to see him with a decent scrum half.

by Mr Bounce Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:50 pm

The thing I hate about Ford is when he tackles 16+ stone opposition by tackling them round the chest.

Simple physics show this slows the attacker down but no more. Time and again I have seen him do this when a simple tackle round the legs would stop them immediately. It's almost like he has a "little man" chip on his shoulder. Excellent 10, but tries too hard to be the big guy when there is really no need.

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:59 pm

Not overly bothered by his tackle technique as it'll be heavily influenced on what the coaches are asking him to do. It would be interesting to see how Ford would play with a different scrum half. The best I've ever seen Ford was playing (consistently) with Stringer, the extra time he had with those bullet passes gave him so many options. Randall is a step up from Youngs but I don't think he possesses that same level of pass.

by Geordie Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:32 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:The thing I hate about Ford is when he tackles 16+ stone opposition by tackling them round the chest.

Simple physics show this slows the attacker down but no more. Time and again I have seen him do this when a simple tackle round the legs would stop them immediately. It's almost like he has a "little man" chip on his shoulder. Excellent 10, but tries too hard to be the big guy when there is really no need.

Is the idea not to hide his weight and size issues, by slowing the tacklers down so his flankers etc can come in and make the actual tackles...

by king_carlos Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:39 pm

Didn't Ford have something like an 88% tackle completion last season?

by formerly known as Sam Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:52 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I hope we can move on from Youngs and Ford may struggle to get back in too.

Personally, I rate Ford, I'd like to see him with a decent scrum half.

Scrum half isn't the problem. The awful backline outside of him that has no semblance of balance however...

by Sgt_Pooly Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:26 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I hope we can move on from Youngs and Ford may struggle to get back in too.

Personally, I rate Ford, I'd like to see him with a decent scrum half.

Scrum half isn't the problem. The awful backline outside of him that has no semblance of balance however...

Yea....you keep telling yourself that! Wink

No real issues with Ford's defence. He's no Wilko, but he gets stuck in.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:44 am

Ludlow picked up a four match ban. One of the strangest decisions I've seen for a while. The ref was very good bar that but it was an illogical set of decisions including saying it didn't have a high degree of danger despite the guy being ushered off with a broken nose for an HIA.

Doubt we'll ever see Ludlow in an England shirt again. So nice for him to get the run out but clearly not good enough.

by lostinwales Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ludlow picked up a four match ban. One of the strangest decisions I've seen for a while. The ref was very good bar that but it was an illogical set of decisions including saying it didn't have a high degree of danger despite the guy being ushered off with a broken nose for an HIA.

Doubt we'll ever see Ludlow in an England shirt again. So nice for him to get the run out but clearly not good enough.

I have no idea why he was captain. Compare and contrast with Genge who seemed to be the de facto captain, leading very much from the front. Marler was very complementary about him and the work he was doing to bring the squad together.

by Geordie Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:06 am

Genge is a total frustration though.

Plays blistering rugby for Tigers, then we see a totally tame ineffective version in an England shirt.

We saw the Tigers version v Canada but they are a semi pro team. He really needs to start producing those performances v the top sides now.

He's 26 and there are young pretenders coming through now....

by formerly known as Sam Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:16 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Genge is a total frustration though.

Plays blistering rugby for Tigers, then we see a totally tame ineffective version in an England shirt.

We saw the Tigers version v Canada but they are a semi pro team. He really needs to start producing those performances v the top sides now.

He's 26 and there are young pretenders coming through now....

Agreed. Though it's a positive he's becoming a real leader in the pack at still quite a young age for a prop. He talked more to sir than our actual captain and in a positive way that didn't annoy sir. When he came off he sat right at the front or player seating area so he could give hugs and backside slaps to those coming off and on. See his reaction to Smith when he came to the seats after learning of his call up, genuine delight for the young man. Really pleased to see that side of Genge come out.

Now if he can unleash his Tigers form on some more high ranking outfits in the Autumn he'll be well on his way to claiming the 1 shirt outright.

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