Alun Wyn Jones on brink of stunning return to Lions squad

by LordDowlais Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

I could not see where this could be discussed so I started a new thread on it, but it looks as though he is be doing a Lazarus again, I tell you the man is a machine, he could be back for the tests.

Alun Wyn Jones on brink of stunning return to Lions squad and could be in South Africa within days as next 24 hours crucial Jones dislocated his shoulder in the Lions' warm-up match with Japan prior to the squad departure for South Africa wrote:

Alun Wyn Jones on brink of stunning return to Lions squad and could be in South Africa within days as next 24 hours crucial Jones dislocated his shoulder in the Lions' warm-up match with Japan prior to the squad departure for South Africa. Warren Gatland has now revealed the talismanic second row is back in training with Wales at their Vale Resort base this week. Wales captain Alun Wyn Jones could be on the verge of making a stunning return to the Lions squad out in South Africa, with the Test series due to begin in less than two weeks. Jones, who was initially named as tour captain, had to leave the camp after dislocating his shoulder during the warm-up match against Japan prior to the Lions' departure to South Africa. Mischievously, Springboks boss Rassie Erasmus claimed in a press conference that Jones was due to link up with the Lions in the coming days. Elaborating, Gatland then explained that Jones was due to go through a double session with Wayne Pivac's side on Tuesday. The suggestion is that if he comes through unscathed, he will then travel out to South Africa. "A few weeks ago, we didn't think it was an option," said Gatland. wrote:

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Last time around LD you were one of those saying he shouldn't have been picked. Yet you want to repeat what you considered a mistake.

Not sure squad selections, injury return, etc. should hang on what LD says to be honest. Let’s go with the experts (no offence LD).

Just to be clear, I have this member on ignore.

But he is constantly hanging on to a hypothetical comment I made where I hypothetically "agreed" with people on here that AWJ should not have gone and who should have been picked in his place.

More of a case of I said something along the lines OK, so perhaps he shouldnt have been selected, then who else should have instead ?

All of a sudden, I have him banging on about this for the past 5 years and trying to convince himself and everybody else that I was against his selection on the last tour, when in all honesty I wasn't.

So if he is reading this, AWJ is one of my favourite ever Welsh players, he is up there with Jiffy, Gareth Edwards, Scott Gibbs, JPR, Ieuan Evans the Pontypool front row ect.....

So why would I ever say he shouldn't have been selected ? Now, can we please put it to bed ? FFS, even on ignore he winds me up.

Thats simply a lie. I even found the quote saying you wouldn't have picked him.

by mikey_dragon Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:43 pm

AWJ sure does get a lot of English and Irish triggered Alun Wyn Jones on brink of stunning return to Lions squad - Page 2 1347041234

by **RiscaGame** Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:58 pm

Can we just be respectful of opinions please, without having to necro post (site rules) or throw words like triggered around. People are allowed to have differing opinions and people are also within their rights to change their opinion, especially from four years ago.

Personally, I don’t want him to rejoin the tour, but am also respectful of what he brings should it happen and the logic behind it.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:18 pm

First press conference due in half an hour So, the Lions press conference will kick off in 30 minutes. In terms of Alun Wyn, he is scheduled to do a double full contact training session today and we are unsure of the timings on those sessions at the moment. Hopefully there will be a clear update at 12.15pm but we may have to wait until later in the afternoon. We'll find out soon enough. wrote:

Alun Wyn could play this weekend Remarkably, if Jones gets the all clear today to join the tour, he will be straight on a plane and could even be named as part of the match squad to face the Stormers on Saturday. That would give him a chance of earning selection for the first Test against South Africa on July 24. The team for the Stormers match is due to be announced on Thursday. wrote:

Just giving everyone some updates. Very Happy

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:25 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Can we just be respectful of opinions please, without having to necro post (site rules) or throw words like triggered around. People are allowed to have differing opinions and people are also within their rights to change their opinion, especially from four years ago.

Personally, I don’t want him to rejoin the tour, but am also respectful of what he brings should it happen and the logic behind it.

Sorry I thought it was relevant in this case as history repeats itself.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:58 pm

More updates:-

Alun Wyn update from Wales camp Back to Wales now, where Gethin Jenkins confirms Alun Wyn has one more session to get through this afternoon before the call is made. Jenkins says: "He’s blowing a bit this morning. It's been pretty hot. "It's good to see him amongst the environment and he’s obviously got an end goal. "He’s got to get through one more session this afternoon and there’s a few decisions to be made. "I know the professional he is and the standards he sets. Fingers crossed, I hope he does get back. "It’s a tough pill to swallow not to go on the tour after that Japan game. I think he’ll be doing everything he can to get out there." wrote:

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:14 pm

latest update:-

Alun Wyn news to come later To confirm then, the decision on Alun Wyn Jones will be taken later today after he has completed a second full contact session this afternoon. All the signs remain positive and it will be down to Jones, Warren Gatland and the medics to decide later today. wrote:

by flyhalffactory Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:22 pm

LD
Good updates.
Keep them up

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:50 pm

Cheers, I will endeavour with the updates, even though the haters disliked your post. Laugh

by TJ Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:00 pm

doctor_grey wrote:It all depends on whether the dislocation was forwards or downwards, or if it went backwards which is usually worse. Also a partial or full dislocation (partially out of the joint or fully so) which is critical. Having strong muscles in the area will help keep the shoulder in place to a greater degree in recovery, but if ligaments were damaged in any way being a tough guy with high tolerance for pain don't mean sh!t (apologies for the medical term). And if the medical team thinks he might be able to play then I am sure there was no damage to the joint itself or any surrounding bone (for the caveat, please see below).

Shoulder dislocations are painful as hell no matter who you are. It is frequently difficult to properly assess the degree of the damage until days afterwards. As I think I said somewhere, we all know AWJ is a tough and competitive guy. Players like him can suck up incredible levels of pain and will lie like a rug to get back in the squad. And I say that with respect. He will be more susceptible to repeat dislocations in the future, and the likelihood is greater closer to the date of the original injury. Which is why his word cannot be completely trusted and the med team have to be tougher. With highly competitive athletes this is not remotely easy (this is the caveat I mentioned above, the med team in some cases need balls of steel for this).

dunno what sort of doctor youare and yo may well have better knowledge than me but my understanding is you cannot dislocate a shoulder in any way without significant ligament damage

by No 7&1/2 Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:00 pm

Yes well done to Jon Doel and Katie Sands for the updates!

by TJ Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 pm

The Oracle wrote:What if it’s not rushed though, medically speaking?

He is - there can be no doubt at all. Ligaments take 12 weeks to recover and in the case of shoulder dislocations are permanently stretched. 12 weeks is the minimum recovery time. rugby league players use a brace to prevent further dislocations when they have had one that prevents the arm going above the horizontal. Ok in league, useless in union

by Oakdene Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:18 pm

Fingers crossed he comes through the second session unscathed.

by flyhalffactory Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Cheers, I will endeavour with the updates, even though the haters disliked your post.

Mate they're just keyboard bully's who are haven't the gonads to reply, the usual sweeping statement merchants who cannae qualify their BS with facts, figures or even examples and hate it whenever some asks them Tumbleweed

. I've got one hero who down-votes me every single time, it would down-vote me even if I told it happy birthday......you cannae make it up

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:39 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cheers, I will endeavour with the updates, even though the haters disliked your post.

Mate they're just keyboard bully's who are haven't the gonads to reply, the usual sweeping statement merchants who cannae qualify the BS with facts, figures or even examples. I've got one hero who down-votes me every single time, it would down-vote me even if I told it happy birthday......

Yep, I have them as well. My own personal fan club. Laugh

by Poorfour Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:40 pm

TJ wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:It all depends on whether the dislocation was forwards or downwards, or if it went backwards which is usually worse. Also a partial or full dislocation (partially out of the joint or fully so) which is critical. Having strong muscles in the area will help keep the shoulder in place to a greater degree in recovery, but if ligaments were damaged in any way being a tough guy with high tolerance for pain don't mean sh!t (apologies for the medical term). And if the medical team thinks he might be able to play then I am sure there was no damage to the joint itself or any surrounding bone (for the caveat, please see below).

Shoulder dislocations are painful as hell no matter who you are. It is frequently difficult to properly assess the degree of the damage until days afterwards. As I think I said somewhere, we all know AWJ is a tough and competitive guy. Players like him can suck up incredible levels of pain and will lie like a rug to get back in the squad. And I say that with respect. He will be more susceptible to repeat dislocations in the future, and the likelihood is greater closer to the date of the original injury. Which is why his word cannot be completely trusted and the med team have to be tougher. With highly competitive athletes this is not remotely easy (this is the caveat I mentioned above, the med team in some cases need balls of steel for this).

dunno what sort of doctor youare and yo may well have better knowledge than me but my understanding is you cannot dislocate a shoulder in any way without significant ligament damage

Not a doctor, but having been through it I've looked into it in a bit of detail. There are different degrees of dislocation and different degrees of damage. The kind of dislocation that takes 25 minutes of manipulation to put back in involves a lot more damage than the type I had (and I assume the type AWJ must have had) - I slipped down a ravine and sat up aware that something was wrong with my shoulder. When I looked across at it, there was the characteristic double bump of a dislocation, but it then slid back into place by itself by the time anyone else got to me. There's still damage, but it's much milder. I also imagine that the type of muscular support you have around the shoulder makes a difference. Still think it's a big risk coming back after such a short period.

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:45 pm

You lot should try working with carpal tunnel syndrome, if I could still fit carpets back in the day with that, then AWJ should breeze back into the Lions squad. Very Happy

I'm not on the tools anymore and it still friggin aches. Crying or Very sad

by flyhalffactory Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cheers, I will endeavour with the updates, even though the haters disliked your post.

Mate they're just keyboard bully's who are haven't the gonads to reply, the usual sweeping statement merchants who cannae qualify the BS with facts, figures or even examples. I've got one hero who down-votes me every single time, it would down-vote me even if I told it happy birthday......

Yep, I have them as well. My own personal fan club.

Keeps them off the streets though, so I reckon I am doing my bit in helping social services

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:00 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Cheers, I will endeavour with the updates, even though the haters disliked your post.

Mate they're just keyboard bully's who are haven't the gonads to reply, the usual sweeping statement merchants who cannae qualify the BS with facts, figures or even examples. I've got one hero who down-votes me every single time, it would down-vote me even if I told it happy birthday......

Yep, I have them as well. My own personal fan club.

Keeps them off the streets though, so I reckon I am doing my bit in helping social services

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:02 pm

Elliot Dee wrote:Alun Wyn Jones 'still the first to every drill'
A few words from Wales hooker Elliot Dee - who is vying for his third consecutive start this summer - on Alun Wyn's return to Wales training.

"It's been a good lift for the boys. When you see Al rock up to training and he is still the most keen and still the first to every drill, and gives absolutely everything, it's always going to be a lift.

"He is a model professional.

"It's no surprise he's done what he's done in the game, just from the way he leads by actions and the way he goes about the place."

"It's been brilliant to see Al back in training. Wish him all the best if he can go on and get back out on that tour."

More updates. Very Happy

by doctor_grey Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:05 pm

TJ wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:It all depends on whether the dislocation was forwards or downwards, or if it went backwards which is usually worse. Also a partial or full dislocation (partially out of the joint or fully so) which is critical. Having strong muscles in the area will help keep the shoulder in place to a greater degree in recovery, but if ligaments were damaged in any way being a tough guy with high tolerance for pain don't mean sh!t (apologies for the medical term). And if the medical team thinks he might be able to play then I am sure there was no damage to the joint itself or any surrounding bone (for the caveat, please see below).

Shoulder dislocations are painful as hell no matter who you are. It is frequently difficult to properly assess the degree of the damage until days afterwards. As I think I said somewhere, we all know AWJ is a tough and competitive guy. Players like him can suck up incredible levels of pain and will lie like a rug to get back in the squad. And I say that with respect. He will be more susceptible to repeat dislocations in the future, and the likelihood is greater closer to the date of the original injury. Which is why his word cannot be completely trusted and the med team have to be tougher. With highly competitive athletes this is not remotely easy (this is the caveat I mentioned above, the med team in some cases need balls of steel for this).

dunno what sort of doctor youare and yo may well have better knowledge than me but my understanding is you cannot dislocate a shoulder in any way without significant ligament damage

Apologies, I was speaking in kind of hyperbole - there has to be damage or the humerus wouldn't have dislocated. But the damage can vary significantly depending on the direction of the injury and how it happened. From bad to worse. The point I was making is that it is hard to recover from and that includes people with strong track records of fast recoveries and high tolerances for pain. Working with pro athletes we see that a lot. All this is in a vacuum because all we know is what was in the papers.

by TJ Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:06 pm

Ta

to me its so obvious he is risking future disability for the chance to play. His choice of course I guess

by LordDowlais Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:12 pm

He looks fine to me, more updates:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pictures-alun-wyn-jones-taking-21045328

by Guest Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:38 pm

I’ve made my thoughts clear - if he’s signed off as fit to play by medical professionals, physios etc then I’m happy to go with that and for him to return. And if he is judged match fit by the Lions staff and subsequently needed by the Lions selectors then I’m ok with him being selected. However, one thing that has to be considered is the opposition approach to this. I’m not calling the Boks dirty (!) but I can see a situation where that ‘possibly not as strong as if he didn’t dislocate it’ shoulder could be given some ‘attention’ at the rucks, etc. All in good clean sportsmanship terms, of course! But that should be of concern to the Lions management team too. Same goes for anyone else carrying an injury too I suppose.

by Mr Bounce Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:40 pm

If he does make it back as many hope, the Boks will view him as a target. He may as well just have "Aim here, hit hard" written on his shirt in Sharpie if he does make the test team.

by Soul Requiem Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:41 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:If he does make it back as many hope, the Boks will view him as a target. He may as well just have "Aim here, hit hard" written on his shirt in Sharpie if he does make the test team.

It's just a waste of time, if we're relying on a half crocked AWJ we stand no chance at all.

by TJ Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:He looks fine to me, more updates:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pictures-alun-wyn-jones-taking-21045328

You have an MRI scanner in your eyes and can see the ligament damage? - the ligament damage that will never self repair fully and will take 12 weeks to heal at all as a minimum?

some time people need protecting from themselves

by flyhalffactory Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:23 pm

TJ wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He looks fine to me, more updates:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pictures-alun-wyn-jones-taking-21045328

You have an MRI scanner in your eyes and can see the ligament damage? - the ligament damage that will never self repair fully and will take 12 weeks to heal at all as a minimum?

some time people need protecting from themselves

Hello TJ

My missus does a bit of work for the SRU (but messes around with hearts usually with sharp instruments for a living) mentioned Dr Margie Olds as an authority on upper body sports injuries but she gave me a brief overview over the phone. With modern practices depending on the type of dislocation (there are two), the most common is anterior you can be back in a short time

The window for recovery from a shoulder dislocation is really determined by the type of damage that is caused during a dislocation. In some case if the amount of pathology is minimal, then return to sport can happen within a few weeks.
Minimal damage a person can return to sport within 2 wks. This is usually how long it takes for the swelling to settle, the key is for them to regain a full range of motion and strength.

by lostinwales Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:24 pm

Poorfour wrote:
TJ wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:It all depends on whether the dislocation was forwards or downwards, or if it went backwards which is usually worse. Also a partial or full dislocation (partially out of the joint or fully so) which is critical. Having strong muscles in the area will help keep the shoulder in place to a greater degree in recovery, but if ligaments were damaged in any way being a tough guy with high tolerance for pain don't mean sh!t (apologies for the medical term). And if the medical team thinks he might be able to play then I am sure there was no damage to the joint itself or any surrounding bone (for the caveat, please see below).

Shoulder dislocations are painful as hell no matter who you are. It is frequently difficult to properly assess the degree of the damage until days afterwards. As I think I said somewhere, we all know AWJ is a tough and competitive guy. Players like him can suck up incredible levels of pain and will lie like a rug to get back in the squad. And I say that with respect. He will be more susceptible to repeat dislocations in the future, and the likelihood is greater closer to the date of the original injury. Which is why his word cannot be completely trusted and the med team have to be tougher. With highly competitive athletes this is not remotely easy (this is the caveat I mentioned above, the med team in some cases need balls of steel for this).

dunno what sort of doctor youare and yo may well have better knowledge than me but my understanding is you cannot dislocate a shoulder in any way without significant ligament damage

Not a doctor, but having been through it I've looked into it in a bit of detail. There are different degrees of dislocation and different degrees of damage. The kind of dislocation that takes 25 minutes of manipulation to put back in involves a lot more damage than the type I had (and I assume the type AWJ must have had) - I slipped down a ravine and sat up aware that something was wrong with my shoulder. When I looked across at it, there was the characteristic double bump of a dislocation, but it then slid back into place by itself by the time anyone else got to me. There's still damage, but it's much milder. I also imagine that the type of muscular support you have around the shoulder makes a difference. Still think it's a big risk coming back after such a short period.

15 yrs old. Canoeing. Slap support stroke that didn't work. Shoulder then popped back in but got some wrecked ligaments in the process. Never dislocated again but slightly reduced mobility in that shoulder and now I have scraped into my 50's I get other problems in the same place.

by TJ Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:59 pm

flyhalf - thats why rugby players end up with chronic injuries. all dislocations cause ligament damage. ligaments take 12 weeks to heal at a minimum. A previously dislocated joint will never be as good without surgery

There are more than two types of shoulder dislocation.

Yes you can be back in a shorter time but you are risking redislocation and chronic injury

by flyhalffactory Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:23 am

TJ wrote:flyhalf - thats why rugby players end up with chronic injuries. all dislocations cause ligament damage. ligaments take 12 weeks to heal at a minimum. A previously dislocated joint will never be as good without surgery

There are more than two types of shoulder dislocation.

Yes you can be back in a shorter time but you are risking redislocation and chronic injury

Compadre, I'm a doctor of mathematics, I haven't a clue about medicine although as a blindside I did pop my shoulder and again when surfing albeit many decades ago.
But my missus is right up there, she'll rarely hyperbole, so I had a look at Margie Olds view on sports injuries. Here's an extract;

"There are two main types of shoulder dislocations that occur during sport. The most common type of shoulder dislocation that occurs in sport is an anterior shoulder dislocation. It is called an anterior shoulder dislocation, because the arm bone twists forward and 'pops out' the front of the shoulder. This occurs when the arm is away from the body and the hand is twisted upwards. The arm is either over rotated (i.e. too much twisting) or it is overstretched backwards, resulting in the shoulder popping out of the front of the joint. Shoulder braces are one way of managing anterior dislocations. The Flawless Motion Anterior Shoulder Brace (click here for more info) supports people with an anterior shoulder dislocation, by allowing them to return to sport, but limiting the shoulder from moving into that vulnerable position with their arm over-rotated or over extended."

So unless you know something my missus doesn't, there are fundamentally two types of sports injury shoulder dislocation

by TJ Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:29 am

Its not my field in the medical world but two main types is not the same as two types. pedantic point.

the shoulder brace mentioned is used because the ligaments are damaged.

the attitude of patch em up and send em out is why so many rugby players are disabled in later life. read up on Dylan Hartley He is severely restricted now because of this

by Guest Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:35 am

I generally agree TJ, but I would wager that 50% of the Lions squad are carrying some sort of niggle or injury that would be better for their future if they just gave up rugby. This is the case for all pro rugby sides (international, club, etc.). Patch them up and send them out seems daft on the face of it. But what is the alternative? One injury (e.g. knee ligament damage at 20) and give up sport forever?

by TJ Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:44 am

There is a halfway - take 12 weeks out to heal properly not 3 and do chronic damage

by flyhalffactory Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:20 am

TJ wrote:There is a halfway - take 12 weeks out to heal properly not 3 and do chronic damage

TJ
You seem a great guy and a great poster and I haven't read any of your posts that I generally disagree with. As I said my background field is physics, mathematics, long term mathematical modelling, a futurist not a quack but sorry I can't see anything (up-to-date) that supports your argument 100%. I agree with you and our Doc Grey who suggested "players are liars" a play on "buyers are liars" and it's us idiotic macho players who play through injuries instead of moaning, perpetuating long term potential injuries. That's different from a specific injury i.e. a shoulder dislocation that to be honest AWJ took pretty well, we don't really know the extent of the injury but what we do know is AWJ is as fit as any male of his age could be.
Should he take the risk?, No I don't he should, is he receiving the best possible advice?, I think he is, there is no way the Lions will risk any potential litigation from a respected global superstar for medical malpractice.
I agree with you he shouldn't go but there is no medical grounds to prove he shouldn't go

by doctor_grey Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:36 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
TJ wrote:There is a halfway - take 12 weeks out to heal properly not 3 and do chronic damage

TJ
You seem a great guy and a great poster and I haven't read any of your posts that I generally disagree with. As I said my background field is physics, mathematics, long term mathematical modelling, a futurist not a quack but sorry I can't see anything (up-to-date) that supports your argument 100%. I agree with you and our Doc Grey who suggested "players are liars" a play on "buyers are liars" and it's us idiotic macho players who play through injuries instead of moaning, perpetuating long term potential injuries. That's different from a specific injury i.e. a shoulder dislocation that to be honest AWJ took pretty well, we don't really know the extent of the injury but what we do know is AWJ is as fit as any male of his age could be.
Should he take the risk?, No I don't he should, is he receiving the best possible advice?, I think he is, there is no way the Lions will risk any potential litigation from a respected global superstar for medical malpractice.
I agree with you he shouldn't go but there is no medical grounds to prove he shouldn't go

I guess the real problem is all we really know is AWJ suffered a dislocation with no detail. The ligaments would not have stretched as far if the bone didn't move far out of the joint. TJ's point about the 12 weeks is because ligaments and tendons have poor blood flow and therefore heal slower rate than blood-rich muscle but usually at a predictable rate. We just don't know the starting point, how far they were stretched and degree of any tears and where. I'm sure his shoulder will be properly stress tested by the med staff, and also he will be at greater risk in the future.

by BamBam Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:39 pm

by Oakdene Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:34 pm

He's rejoining the tour.

by Guest Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:43 pm

Uh oh!

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:55 pm

Almost inevitable. Hoping his shoulder holds up and he and Gatland don't cost us. Shame for the locks out there that Gatland has shown he doesn't think they're up to it.

by Oakdene Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:11 pm

Great news, fingers crossed he hits the ground running which I am sure he will as he always seems to when he pulls on the Welsh jersey.

by flyhalffactory Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:11 pm

Oh here we go.......batten down the hatches.

I'm hoping for a great team performance tonight especially from the engine room. AWJ back, will only improve the other players performances, but I still think Henderson and Itoje are in the driving seats and a good performance tonight should seal it. However let's not forget Beard has done pretty darn good and could still claim a starting slot.

by LordDowlais Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:13 pm

Official update Laugh

Alun Wyn Jones returns to Lions squad after remarkable comeback from injury The Lions captain has incredibly overcome a dislocated shoulder in 18 days and will link up with the squad later this week Alun Wyn Jones has been recalled to the British and Irish Lions squad after a remarkable comeback from injury. The Welsh second-row dislocated his shoulder against Japan at Murrayfield on June 26 and was initially ruled out of the tour, before head coach Warren Gatland opened the door for a possible return of the Test series. And now the original tour captain, who holds the record for the most Test appearances in rugby, will fly into Cape Town on Thursday 15 July. Following a double training session with the Wales squad at the Vale of Glamorgan training headquarters on Tuesday and subsequent medical assessment on Wednesday body, Jones was passed fit to go to South Africa. “We are delighted to welcome Alun Wyn back,” said Gatland. “It’ll come as no surprise to anyone who knows Alun Wyn that since injuring his shoulder against Japan, he’s done everything he can to get himself back. “He’s been training with the Wales squad at the Vale since last week and yesterday he had a proper hit out. Following assessment from the medical staff this morning we’re satisfied he’s fit to return. “He’s obviously raring to go and from what I’ve seen on video and the feedback we’ve received, he’s certainly not been holding himself back in training. He was really getting stuck in yesterday. “It’s a massive boost for the Lions to welcome a player of Alun Wyn’s stature back.” wrote:

by flyhalffactory Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:20 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Almost inevitable. Hoping his shoulder holds up and he and Gatland don't cost us. Shame for the locks out there that Gatland has shown he doesn't think they're up to it.

Wait a minute, say what? Shocked

Which lock doesn't he think is up to it?

He's shown tremendous loyalty to certain players who haven't had a particularly good last 12-18 months by actually selecting them originally and he has continued to give every player a chance to show the coaches that they are on form and worthy of a place

by LordDowlais Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:32 pm

Theres more here from the BEEB:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57819751

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:43 pm

Although you could at least credit the writers.

by R!skysports Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:23 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Almost inevitable. Hoping his shoulder holds up and he and Gatland don't cost us. Shame for the locks out there that Gatland has shown he doesn't think they're up to it.

Wait a minute, say what? Which lock doesn't he think is up to it?

He's shown tremendous loyalty to certain players who haven't had a particularly good last 12-18 months by actually selecting them originally and he has continued to give every player a chance to show the coaches that they are on form and worthy of a place

Like AWJ

Sorry could not resist kiss

by flyhalffactory Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:31 pm

R!skysports wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Almost inevitable. Hoping his shoulder holds up and he and Gatland don't cost us. Shame for the locks out there that Gatland has shown he doesn't think they're up to it.

Wait a minute, say what? Which lock doesn't he think is up to it?

He's shown tremendous loyalty to certain players who haven't had a particularly good last 12-18 months by actually selecting them originally and he has continued to give every player a chance to show the coaches that they are on form and worthy of a place

Like AWJ

Sorry could not resist

by hugehandoff Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:41 pm

So timescales for his return to the test team. As soon as he is deemed fit enough to play he plays 1 warm up match before being thrown into the tests. Realistically we are probably looking at him being a sub for the 2nd test and starting the 3rd?

by formerly known as Sam Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:01 pm

Seems unfair to AWJ and the other locks selected to be honest. If you are one of the locks playing hard as you can this effectively tells you that you are playing for one spot not two. AWJ is now likely to be parachuted into the team short of fitness and unlikely to perform his best there to be shot at and scapegoated if the Lions lose. Not to mention the potential for damaging his shoulder again and worse than before.

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