England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

Jacks, Crawley, Hain, Stokes, Salt (WK), Lawrence, Gregory, Overton, Saqib, Ball, Parkinson?

Will MacPherson suggests Hales won’t be picked, which is a bit odd given they hinted he would get a chance this summer.

You also have Vince, Duckett and keep an eye out for Harry Brook.

The good news is they've taken an early lunch. The bad news is the rain radar is telling me the rain won't relent until 14:30, so no play until 16:00 at the earliest, I would presume, maybe 15:30 if the drainage is excellent.

This looks pretty nailed-on as a draw.

Other good news is the second test at Lord's, which starts on Thursday, has a lovely dry forecast for the five days.

Duty281 wrote:The good news is they've taken an early lunch. The bad news is the rain radar is telling me the rain won't relent until 14:30, so no play until 16:00 at the earliest, I would presume, maybe 15:30 if the drainage is excellent.

This looks pretty nailed-on as a draw.

Other good news is the second test at Lord's, which starts on Thursday, has a lovely dry forecast for the five days.

if you are right and start 1530 means 3.5 hours of play means...50 overs
Only one team can lose in 50 overs...I would think

A Draw ain't a bad start ....kind of moral win

Duty281 wrote:The good news is they've taken an early lunch. The bad news is the rain radar is telling me the rain won't relent until 14:30, so no play until 16:00 at the earliest, I would presume, maybe 15:30 if the drainage is excellent.

This looks pretty nailed-on as a draw.

Other good news is the second test at Lord's, which starts on Thursday, has a lovely dry forecast for the five days.

Drainage is going to have to be seriously good, major puddles forming off the sheets on the square already and more rain going on them. Do well to clear that up in an hour!

It actually looks worse now with the rain set to restart in about 30 minutes and continue until just before 16:00.

Just call if off, umpires. Shame there's no reserve day, it's fairly dry tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/innobystander/status/1424367233099255809?s=21

Yikes. Doesn’t look promising

Think we can probably write this one off now

Called off. India saved from defeat

Some positives to take from this for England. Second test just around the corner - Hameed might come in? Pope might be fit enough? Could be a rotation in the bowling with Wood or Overton starting, perhaps Leach? Decisions, decisions.

Duty281 wrote:Called off. India saved from defeat

Some positives to take from this for England. Second test just around the corner - Hameed might come in? Pope might be fit enough? Could be a rotation in the bowling with Wood or Overton starting, perhaps Leach? Decisions, decisions.

Think both sides actually got the selection decision to leave Ashwin/Leach out correct in this one - Trent Bridge continues to be a seamers paradise.
Probably different for Lords but will see what the pitch is like!

Hard to know what England will do - you’d think India will be Ashwin in for Thakur only

England will be the happier of the two sides.

The good news is that the weather looks set fair for Lord's. Bit ironic that it looks as if we'll get off to a good start at HQ on Thursday in what has been a showery summer.

Both 2018 and 2019 were fairly hot summers yet the first day of the India Test and the opening day of the following year's Ashes Test saw ne'er a ball bowled.

I would like to see England playing five bowlers from now on. To me, India are still favourites to take the series but Eng will be relieved they're not one down already.

Well well ... I missed all that thrilling rain stopping/starting , pitch inspecting , interval altering stuff...no regrets, nice sleep was better

Think England probably dodged a bullet there , though Root's defiance arguably earned them a right to some assistance from the weather. At least that rules out an Indian 5-0 sweep...

India must be the more confident team heading to Lord's though. OK their main batsmen didn't fire in this match but their "makeshift" opening pairing did well in tough conditions and they don't face England's problems with balancing their team : Jadeja and potentially Ashwin can both bat well enough to allow Pant to bat six in some comfort . I'd be less happy if Buttler were forced up a place higher - which means fitting a fifth bowler in is very difficult for the home team.
Pope may be fit , I hear. If so he's a far better bet than Lawrence even if he has also had some ordinary recent innings in Tests : also is a much superior fielder - something this team badly needs! Bowling may be tweaked depending on conditions and fitness issues. Curran was anonymous with the ball in this game but rather valuable with the bat ... if a spinner is required can Leach be picked further weakening the tail or would it have to be Bess ? Questions...

Glad to hear a better forecast. Hope Root can continue to stand up and perhaps find a bit more support to keep his team competitive at least.

A win would have been great.....but Root's hundred bought England enuf time to take the game into D5, where there was no D5 permitted by rain gods......

for India
1. Depth of resources are display.....Rahul stepped in so fluently into the role of an opener when he wasn't even the designated reserve opener...although he has opened a lot in the past
2. Bowlers tried hard to practice batting in the nets...and while their methods looked comical, they yielded precious 50 runs from Nos 9 thru 11
3. India improvised on feet to the WTC mistakes....got their team composition right and played far more positively

On Eng...and specifically on How likes of Burn/Sibley/ Crawley play...eating balls and freezing one end and scoring glorious 100 ball 20s and 30s on their best days
Is  helpful only on days when there is free flowing batsman Root or Stokes at the other end
But when there is no Stokes and Root fails...these 20s & 30s do not help your team in being competitive....lest setting up the game for win.

Sam Curran couldn't get wickets, didn't look like getting any wickets  and that must be worrying for Eng . He cannot be one of 4 bowlers

KP_fan wrote:specifically on How likes of Burn/Sibley/ Crawley play...eating balls and freezing one end and scoring glorious 100 ball 20s and 30s on their best days
Sam Curran couldn't get wickets, didn't look like getting any wickets  and that must be worrying for Eng . He cannot be one of 4 bowlers

Sibley plays like that, and so does Burns to an extent, but Crawley certainly doesn't. All five of Crawley's 50+ scores in tests have been at a SR of over 50, Crawley's main issue at the moment is form.

Agree about Curran, he may have slipped behind Robinson in the pecking order. We'll see if Overton or even Wood replaces him for the second test - England's selection is very much up in the air.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:specifically on How likes of Burn/Sibley/ Crawley play...eating balls and freezing one end and scoring glorious 100 ball 20s and 30s on their best days
Sam Curran couldn't get wickets, didn't look like getting any wickets  and that must be worrying for Eng . He cannot be one of 4 bowlers

Sibley plays like that, and so does Burns to an extent, but Crawley certainly doesn't. All five of Crawley's 50+ scores in tests have been at a SR of over 50, Crawley's main issue at the moment is form.

Agree about Curran, he may have slipped behind Robinson in the pecking order. We'll see if Overton or even Wood replaces him for the second test - England's selection is very much up in the air.

To be honest I don't remember a long inning from Crawley....so I might be wrong
If the pitch in T2 merits a spinner then I would bring in Leach as 5th bowler and keep Curran in.
Curran has scored runs each time i saw him bat

In whose place Leach comes in?
I dunno

With still no Stokes, and Woakes out until the 3rd test at best...the balance of the side for England does remain a big issue. I think they actually assessed conditions correctly and got it right at Trent Bridge...but you'd assume Lords won't be as obviously seamer friendly, and usually a spinner is needed. I don't see how that spinner can't be Leach personally, and I think you'd just have to lump Buttler at 6, Curran at 7, Robinson at 8.
Question then would be do you bring a Wood/Overton in for Broad to slightly strengthen the tail (particularly in Overton's case)? Would be a hugely bold call...

Also, the weird quirk of Buttler's test career so far is that he has a significantly better average batting at 6 (979 runs in 21 innings at an average of 51.53 only two not outs, 46* and 0*) than he does at 7 (1307 runs in 47 innings at an average of 29.70, three nots outs, 59*, 6* and 80*).
It's not even like it's inflated by a random not out or two, it is just much much better at 6! I can't really offer any explanation...but maybe he enjoys the extra responsibility and doesn't get stranded with the tail so often?
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/players/PlayerPositions.asp?PlayerID=3888

Cricket twitter and BBC cricket comment sections seem to think the answer to Sibley's slow scoring rate is the wildly attacking and gung ho, Haseeb Hameed...
I do wonder if he comes in for Crawley, or if they give Crawley one more test?
Then the whole Pope/Lawrence/Bairstow kerfuffle.

Whole lotta questions!

I'm unsure about the bowling, there's many possible combinations England can go for, but I'd definitely go for Hameed over Crawley at 3. Crawley needs to go back to county cricket - and wait for FC games to come along - otherwise his confidence could be destroyed permanently in test cricket. No idea why people would want Sibley to be dropped - England probably lose that test match if it wasn't for his gritty intervention.

Duty281 wrote:I'm unsure about the bowling, there's many possible combinations England can go for, but I'd definitely go for Hameed over Crawley at 3. Crawley needs to go back to county cricket - and wait for FC games to come along - otherwise his confidence could be destroyed permanently in test cricket.  No idea why people would want Sibley to be dropped - England probably lose that test match if it wasn't for his gritty intervention.

My only issue with Hameed coming for Crawley is that Hameed's return to form has come opening the batting, whereas his absolute cratering of his form for Lancs a year or two ago came when he was batting at 3. It maybe not the biggest difference, but I'd want Hameed to be definitely comfortable with batting slightly out of position!

Interesting that Buttler has such a markedly better record at six than seven. Did a bit of digging :

All those innings (at six) have been played since his return to the side in 2018. He's clearly a better Test bat than he was when he was initially employed , primarily as a keeper. So his figures aren't weighed down by earlier failures.
Secondly a number of those matches were in Sri Lanka (where he was necessarily up the order as the balance of the team was dictated by the need for extra spinners) - and batting higher in the order is probably easier than in many places.
And his two highest innings have been played at that position - which may just be happenstance.

This of course doesn't totally account for the difference. Nor does it mean he can't make runs at seven !

The things that make me prefer to keep him at seven are : (a) an impression that against good pace attacks - which India clearly have - he doesn't tend to look so assured ; and (b) that if he is at six the others are all going to be pushed up ... and the tail is longer...

Curran Robinson and three rabbits isn't reassuring after that first innings collapse last week ! But this might be one of those Problems For Which There Is No Perfect Solution.

Questions indeed...

If England do decide to go down the four seamer route again, and leave out Leach, I wonder if Curran’s place is under threat from Overton.

I think Craig is comfortably the better bowler, but Curran is considerably the better bat. And if you are happy with having those three main bowlers who you can rely on for long spells maybe you like the left armer as a change up - albeit India didn’t seem to suffer from having four right arm seamers!

The other option is resting Broad/Anderson and bring in in Wood as the point of difference, so you could go Robinson/Overton/Wood/Anderson. But I can’t seem them resting Broad or Anderson yet.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:My only issue with Hameed coming for Crawley is that Hameed's return to form has come opening the batting, whereas his absolute cratering of his form for Lancs a year or two ago came when he was batting at 3. It maybe not the biggest difference, but I'd want Hameed to be definitely comfortable with batting slightly out of position!

Assuming Crawley is first in line to be dropped (and that nobody wants to see Sibley at 3) it's either Hameed or Burns though, and it seems a bit risky to move the only opener that isn't a concern at the moment.

Cricinfo reckoning that Moeen is in with a chance of a recall to the test XI for Thursday, presumably due to the issues with 'balancing' the side. What a massive step back and pointless short-termism that would be.

I believe he's played a grand total of two county FC games and three tests in the last 28 months - those tests were where Moeen recorded five single-digit scores and a pressure-free 43 (the game was already lost) with the bat; and he recorded an utterly horrific performance with the ball v Australia in Birmingham two years ago, though he did pick up some wickets on a very helpful deck in Chennai. Though he will offer nothing to England in the test arena if chosen again, he is the greatest beneficiary of the phenomenon where a non-selected player has his ability hyped out of all reasonable proportion leading to an undue clamour for said player's reinstatement.

In better news Pope will probably be fit for the next test. Will be a big series for him after a sluggish start to his test career. Crawley, according to Cricinfo, is averaging a meagre 11 in his past 14 test innings - I don't see how he can possibly be retained in the side. Yes, I recognise the potential issue of Hameed at 3, but it has got to be worth a shot...unless Burns fancies dropping down to 3?

Not a lot of whispers around the bowling. Maybe a sign that England will keep things mostly the same with still no specialist spinner?

Chris Silverwood tells England batters around Joe Root to 'step up'
Coach says Pope, Hameed, Moeen all in contention ahead of second Test against India

George Dobell


Ohh my gawd.....Maligned Ali will be back
adds a batsmen better than dibbly, dobbly, sibley, burns, crawley Popes etal
and a bowler better than Bess and no less than Leach ( against Indians)

Last time he played a test match for Eng...he top scored with bat and took most wickets also
( and yet he was dumped)

2014-2021 13 673 146 32.04 2 49 6/67 31.91 2 8 0 0.12

Ali vs India......world class allrounder....Indians are very wary of him

Because he's not good enough, a better batsman than Sibley, Burns and Pope he is not.

KP_fan wrote:2014-2021 13 673 146 32.04 2 49 6/67 31.91 2 8 0 0.12

Ali vs India......world class allrounder....Indians are very wary of him

Test batting average - 28.8
Test bowling average - 36.2

World-class all-rounder, indeed. Worth noting that Moeen isn't even at that level anymore, his peak was four-five years ago.

India will certainly be hoping he gets picked - anything to boost their meagre chances of recording a test win on this tour.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:2014-2021 13 673 146 32.04 2 49 6/67 31.91 2 8 0 0.12

Ali vs India......world class allrounder....Indians are very wary of him

Test batting average - 28.8
Test bowling average - 36.2

World-class all-rounder, indeed. Worth noting that Moeen isn't even at that level anymore, his peak was four-five years ago.

India will certainly be hoping he gets picked - anything to boost their meagre chances of recording a test win on this tour.

                                   

It seems England are at least considering a recall for Moeen.  Not too surprised.

1/ He's in good form in the crash-ball stuff.  OK it ain't Test or FC ; but none of the rest have had much of that lately either.
2/ He can bat much better than Leach , or even Bess.
3/ He has - some while in the past , admittedly , but still quite often - performed really well in Tests. And against India too particularly in England.

As against all that he still doesn't really solve the team balancing issue. Does anyone want to see him batting at five? At eight , sure - certainly gives the tail a big lift . But then you are still stuck with just four bowlers...and he has to provide a lot more control than he's done in more recent appearances. The other option is Moeen as one of five bowlers , batting at seven ahead of , say : Robinson Wood Broad Anderson . I wouldn't mind that so much - if only I had more confidence in the batsmen...I would frankly prefer to keep long batting in place for now. Arguably that policy bought enough time to save the first match - with substantial aid from the patriotic weather of course Because five bowlers don't help much if you are getting bowled out for under 200 regularly...

Worth discussion certainly. Not sure I'd be going for him in this match though. Top order batting the first issue , I think ; because unless/until that is improved it is hard to see the team getting anywhere.

alfie wrote:It seems England are at least considering a recall for Moeen.  Not too surprised.

1/ He's in good form in the crash-ball stuff.  OK it ain't Test or FC ; but none of the rest have had much of that lately either.
2/ He can bat much better than Leach , or even Bess.
3/ He has - some while in the past , admittedly , but still quite often - performed really well in Tests. And against India too particularly in England.

As against all that he still doesn't really solve the team balancing issue. Does anyone want to see him batting at five? At eight , sure - certainly gives the tail a big lift . But then you are still stuck with just four bowlers...and he has to provide a lot more control than he's done in more recent appearances. The other option is Moeen as one of five bowlers , batting at seven ahead of , say : Robinson Wood Broad Anderson . I wouldn't mind that so much - if only I had more confidence in the batsmen...I would frankly prefer to keep long batting in place for now. Arguably that policy bought enough time to save the first match - with substantial aid from the patriotic weather of course    Because five bowlers don't help much if you are getting bowled out for under 200 regularly...

Worth discussion certainly. Not sure I'd be going for him in this match though. Top order batting the first issue , I think ; because unless/until that is improved it is hard to see the team getting anywhere.

I can't see anyway it'll be Moeen at 5, but more 7-11 to become Moeen, Curran, Robinson, Broad, Anderson.
Certainly does a give a bit more balance on paper, but you can't help but feel badly for Jack Leach. I may not think he will go too well in home conditions, but he deserves a chance to like, show it either way!
Do feel for the selectors as without Stokes, it does become quite tough to get him into the XI without having a glaring hole somewhere...but you'd think he would have gotten a game at some point already. As it is he's spending his summer carrying drinks in a bubble again...

Next calls are going to be whether Hameed/Pope return, and for who

Yes it appears from Dobell's piece on cricinfo that Moeen is going to play. Suspect Olly is correct in that he will be one of five bowlers though it may be that Wood could feature as well - not sure for whom ? (Your batting line-up is certainly deep , Olly ! But might they want a real "pace" option ?)

So that leaves sorting the top five. Difficult. Root plus four ... but who and in what order ? Think Lawrence is surely out for now ; and it is hard to make a case for Crawley (sadly ! Looks to have more potential than the rest but really seems to be in need of a spell at lower levels)
Trouble is they still have more good options for five than they need but not much for top three. Will we see Root pushed back to three ?

Kind of glad I'm not a selector.

ESPN are reporting that Moeen is in the squad. I would like to see him play. It's not as if we're blessed with many options.

Moeen at seven, or even eight, is a dangerous proposition for opponents. He shouldn't bat higher. If Pope's fit I think he will come in for Lawrence. Both openers will remain for the time being, I think.

Crawley certainly deserves to be dropped on current form but when you think what he is capable of you have to reckon they'll stick with him for this Test at least.

The India puzzle is whether to play Ashwin. Usual rule is to do what the opposition least wants. I think England would be delighted if Ashwin was left out again.

alfie wrote:2/ He can bat much better than Leach , or even Bess..

In terms of batting averages in tests since Leach made his debut (30th March 2018), Moeen is averaging 16. Leach is averaging nearly 14 in his whole career and Bess nearly 23.  Moeen has managed 5 ducks in that time, Leach and Bess 3 apiece.

I would certainly prefer Bess as a batting option over Moeen in tests, presently.

If Moeen is in the side England are essentially adding another tail-ender. It won't help the balance of the side at all. Pick Leach if England desire a spinner - he's more likely than Moeen to hold up an end if there's an established batsmen making a score at the other.

Selecting Moeen doesn't solve a single problem with the England side, he's not a good enough batsman or bowler in test cricket any more, it should either be Leach or no one. Silverwood is somehow trumping all former coaches in the uselessness stakes, the sooner he's gone the better.

Have to disagree with both SR and Duty. I just don't see a guy who has made five Test hundreds as a tailender.

Yes, Moeen has not made much of a fist of Test cricket lately but he could well make more runs that some of the specialist batsmen given another run in the side.

No doubt there are some who think that Bairstow should not be in the side, too. If we had strong batting, then Johnny would not be considered. But we don't at the moment, so someone who has scored more than 4,000 Test runs becomes, in my view, an automatic selection.

Mo hasn't scored a test match century since 2016 and only has only gone past 50 3 times in the past four years. Those of you contemplating his selection based on his batting are doing so based on historical rather than current performances.

Have to agree with sirfred... and msp and KP_Fan of course.

You've got to hand it to Mo who's still out there punching and delivering albeit in a different form of the game. However, it is still cricket (he's definitely got his eye in for batting and can still turn his arm bowling) and he should be able to comfortably switch modes without skipping a beat and make some decent contributions if selected for Lord's.

I'd forget all the selected stats from 5 or 3 years ago or whenever (too much over-thinking going on) and just get him back in the mix. He has a more than even chance of rising to the occasion and he looks as though he's in a very good place with regards to his game at the moment.

Let's face it - even if he gets a duck, 35* and 2-4 wickets at Lord's... and an outfield catch too... then he will already have outperformed some of the dead weight being carried around by England at present.

If he fails; then sure... make some more noise and call for Leach or Bess again. I just think the man has way more Test match experience, guile, determination and 'x-factor' than Jack or Dom.

The problem will be however... how to eventually say "goodbye" (should he fail if selected) and whether he comes Down Under in October/November. The selectors should forget about that for now though and deal with the situation at present whilst keeping the reserves/other options warm - somehow over the coming months.

It's really not that clear cut though , is it ?  Yes it is true Moeen hasn't done anything with the bat for a long time : but as Sir Fred points out he has five Test centuries. And of course Bairstow (also short of recent big scores) has six. The more recent selections have one or two each and aren't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence.

Historical performances are one thing : recent form another. Personally I prefer the latter ; but when there isn't any that is particularly good then looking at previous achievements is arguably reasonable.

Think it is fair to say Moeen has been right royally messed around by the England selectors in recent years. Partly his own fault , of course - making himself unavailable for a while there was doubtless honest ; but not a move likely to inspire confidence. In some ways being good at more than one part of the game can be a curse as much as a benefit. But it is  , I think , reasonable to view him as primarily a bowler who can bat today so Duty's batting stats are also relevant...

Do also feel a bit for Leach who is a bit of a victim of the "team balance" problem.

This fence I am sitting on is getting uncomfortable.

Does Mo even balance the side any better though?

If he bats at 8, which his form probably demands and would be a better batting option than Sam Curran there, you are left with three seamers which seems light for English conditions.

If you bat him at 7, and push Buttler up, that is a long tail and one I wouldn’t be massively comfortable with. I do think I err to this option, as I want four seamers and it’s probably going to be a low scoring series (even with better batting weather about this week) so 20s and 30s from the lower order might be telling enough.

But without Stokes, there is no team England can pick that looks balanced. And because of that I’d probably have let Mo stay and do his thing in the Hundred where he is both a gun and probably the biggest draw left playing in it. And muddled through with an unbalanced side, as you aren’t fixing that balance with Mo anyway.

1) Moeen has five test centuries. True. All were made between 2014-2016. If this were 2014-2016, he'd obviously be in the team. But it's 2021 now and Moeen is well below that level. A more relevant statistic might be just two half-centuries in his past 33 test innings, or a test average of 16 since April 2018, or eight single-digit scores in his last 11 test innings. And he hasn't played FC cricket for his county since 2019, so it's not as though he's pressing for inclusion from that front. I'm not sure why these stats should be forgotten - they're entirely relevant as to why Moeen was rightfully dropped and why any pretence that he will 're-balance' the side is a false one. Bess is more likely to give a meaningful contribution with the bat, plus Bess is a better bowler.

2) Moeen's doing well in the Hundred. How grand. The ultimate hit-and-giggle. Bit different to facing a moving red ball in a proper game of cricket.

3) Bairstow. The issue with Bairstow is he fell off a cliff in terms of test batting - 3 centuries and a 59 average in tests in 2016, dropping to 34 in 2017, 30 in 2018, then just 18.5 in 2019 when he was dropped. Average of 25 from his five tests in 2021 so far. You have to go back about 20 innings for his last test half-century, and about 30 innings back for his last test century. England should be moving on from Bairstow in the test arena, and they're trying to, but I think his inclusion in the last test was only due to Pope's injury.

I don’t really think Bess is either a better bowler or batsman than Moeen. Even this version of Moeen. We are only 6 months or whatever removed from Bess not even being able to land it vs India.

Leach is the one who should feel aggrieved as he is a better bowler.

alfie wrote:It's really not that clear cut though , is it ?  Yes it is true Moeen hasn't done anything with the bat for a long time : but as Sir Fred points out he has five Test centuries. And of course Bairstow (also short of recent big scores) has six. The more recent selections have one or two each and aren't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence.

Historical performances are one thing : recent form another. Personally I prefer the latter ; but when there isn't any that is particularly good then looking at previous achievements is arguably reasonable.

Think it is fair to say Moeen has been right royally messed around by the England selectors in recent years. Partly his own fault , of course - making himself unavailable for a while there was doubtless honest ; but not a move likely to inspire confidence. In some ways being good at more than one part of the game can be a curse as much as a benefit. But it is  , I think , reasonable to view him as primarily a bowler who can bat today so Duty's batting stats are also relevant...

Do also feel a bit for Leach who is a bit of a victim of the "team balance" problem.

This fence I am sitting on is getting uncomfortable.

I might join you on that fence Alfie!

I can see what they're doing here for sure, but ultimately I think it all stems back to the issue that without Stokes and Woakes, there isn't really an ideal option, as really England don't have a spin option in home conditions they can play comfortably as part of a four man attack with three seamers.
So they're really just almost muddling through/picking their poison in this series sans Stokes...

The good thing is Moeen does have an extremely good record against India particularly at home. Lets hope he can replicate some of that previous success...and lets face it, he can hardly score less runs than the incumbents in the top 7 bar Root...

As a bowler at home I actually think Mo's strengths suit this attack better than Leach. At home our seamers largely have really good economy rates. As such a spinner to 'tie up an end' isn't necessary. What we usually want from our spinner when we turn from them at home is to take a wicket to break a partnership or change the flow of the game. Mo's very good strike rate in Tests could be valuable, even if he has always gone for runs whilst taking those wickets.

As a batsman it's a long time since Mo looked capable of regular Test runs. His weakness against the short ball and outside off stump is just too easy to target. You either put a man back on the hook, couple of catches on the leg side and pepper him. Or an accurate seamers just hangs the ball outside his off stump just short of a drive length and waits for Mo to throw his hands at it. They are easy flaws for Test seamers to exploit and Mo has never really worked on them.

I really like Mo as a cricketer and always have. He's just so much fun to watch and comes across as such a likable character. If picked I hope it goes well with the bat but I really struggle to see him as a top 7 batsman in Test cricket any longer. He's a dangerous number 8 that will score quick runs when things go his way. We already have that in the side from Sam Curran though, at this stage I think I'd back Curran over Mo as a counterattacking lower order batsman against the red ball.

Root all but confirming Mo is back in for the second test

GSC wrote:Root all but confirming Mo is back in for the second test

Great news for India with the casuals' favourite Moeen recalled. He's an easy wicket to get (where's he batting? 7?) and will be easy runs for the Indian batsmen to plunder.

Still make England favourites for this one, but such news is a boost to India.

I'd guess we are looking at:

1.Sibley
2.Burns
3.Hameed
4.Root
5.Bairstow/Pope
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Moeen
8.Surran
9.Robinson
10.Broad
11.Anderson

If they want to rotate Broad then presumably Wood comes in.

I really hope that Bairstow isn't bunted up to 3.

If Hameed does play I'd open with Sibley and Hameed then have Burns at 3.

As always without Stokes it's an unbalanced and flawed lineup. With Stokes and Woakes we'd at least looks pretty good from 4 down.

Even those who are inclined to support Moeen in this forum( and will add him in their tipping list) , are only daring to give back handed compliments to him.
Such is the Inertia built up against Maligned Ali  

BTW....the selectors and Captain of Eng do see .....a spinner who is less than none in Eng today
and a batsmen who likely to score as many or more than Sibley, Burn, Pope Crawley etc
He has hurt Ind....all the time & Ind would be wary of him.

If Eng are indeed playing Ali...in addition to recognizing his value two additional points stand out
1.I think Eng composition  will be 5 bowlers including Curran & Ali....so basically 3 specialist  seam bowlers plus these two all rounders....and I believe they may bring a faster bowler instead of Broad.

2. The pitch will assist spinners....so would India swap Shardul for Ashwin ...they should but they will probably not

I see a more lethal combination for Eng then they had in T1

KP_fan wrote:Even those who are inclined to support Moeen in this forum( and will add him in their tipping list) , are only daring to give back handed compliments to him.
Such is the Inertia built up against Maligned Ali  

BTW....the selectors and Captain of Eng do see .....a spinner who is less than none in Eng today
and a batsmen who likely to score as many or more than Sibley, Burn, Pope Crawley etc
He has hurt Ind....all the time & Ind would be wary of him.

If Eng are indeed playing Ali...in addition to recognizing his value two additional points stand out
1.I think Eng composition  will be 5 bowlers including Curran & Ali....so basically 3 specialist  seam bowlers plus these two all rounders....and I believe they may bring a faster bowler instead of Broad.

2. The pitch will assist spinners....so would India swap Shardul for Ashwin ...they should but they will probably not

I see a more lethal combination for Eng then they had in T1

In the last few years Mo averages 16 with the bat. Even the batsman you list there average better than that in the same period KP.

As a bowler Mo's strike rate makes him a useful option that I actually think fits what England need from their spinner in English conditions better than Leach who has more control but a worse strike rate. The seamers can take care of keeping the RR down in home conditions when they bowl well so the spinner needs to chip in with the odd wicket more than tying up an end. If the seamers bowl poorly at home then England are screwed anyway!

You have a really strange obsession with thinking that the only reasonable ways to rate players are as either brilliant or abysmal. All players have strengths and weaknesses, in the cricket those strengths and weaknesses change massively with the conditions. Mo really struggles with the bat against the moving ball hung outside off stump (the Dukes will always move) and anything short from seamers of Test quality (which India now have plenty of).

Pointing out that Mo has struggled with the bat when he averages 16 in the last few years isn't maligning him. It just means those posters actually have a passing knowledge of Mo's batting in Tests since about 2016 he when he was last effective before being worked out by quality seamers.

On expecting the pitch to assist seamers I think it's worth noting that this pitch will likely be very similar to the one for the WTC final. It won't be a 'spinners pitch' but I think it will be fairly flat and good for batting as far as English Test pitches in recent years have been. That combined with the good weather forecast will hopefully mean this Test goes into day 4 or 5, hence the spinners will naturally come into the game more.

The Dukes ball seems to be swinging more each summer at the minute though so seam and swing will still be king. Reverse swing has almost gone out the game in England now as the ball has swung conventionally until very late in the innings, plus the rise of the 'wobble seam' as a really potent weapon in English conditions.

If I was picking an Indian XI I'd have Jadeja and Ashwin in there barring an absolute green top though. They offer so much with their quality, experience and all round abilities. If India had a stronger seam bowling all rounder on tour to challenge the 8 spot then it might be different but with the squad India have I just think Ashwin is too good to leave out unless it's a proper snake pit such as the dire pitch seen for the England vs Ireland Test at Lords.

Bumrah and Ishant backed up by Siraj or Shami then the spin twins in Jadeja and Ashwin is a fantastic attack. Ashwin adds considerably to the batting depth compared to Thakur as well.

Broad an injury doubt and going for scans on a calf injury picked up during training today.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad an injury doubt and going for scans on a calf injury picked up during training today.

Sounds like Wood might have played anyway. Wood adds pace and is arguably a better tailend batsman than Broad these days as well so not the end of the world for T2.

If Broad is unavailable for a significant portion of the series it's a massive blow as that will effect being able to rotate Anderson, especially with Woakes already injured.

Soul Requiem wrote:Because he's not good enough, a better batsman than Sibley, Burns and Pope he is not.

Moeen Ali is not the best batter England have. He is not the greatest spinner to have ever played for them. But when you look at the fact, that Dominic Sibley, Oliver Pope and Zak Crawley combined do not have as many test runs as Moeen has, from nearly the same number of tests, you have to sit up and take note! Crawley averages less than Ali, Sibley averages just about a run-and-a-half more. Even Pope and Rory Burns, don't have a considerably better batting record than that of Ali's. Add Daniel Lawrence to the mix, the guy again averages less than Moeen. Even Jos Buttler and Jonny Bairstow don't have a clearly superior batting record in comparison to that of Moeen.
All this is besides the fact that England currently don't have a playable spinner other than Moeen in the country! The squad spinners are unselectable in an 11, though they may be slightly better bowlers on certain counts!
Moeen, like Sam Curran, has this irritating thing of beind a handful against India to add to all that.
And yet, England fans write Ali off as useless. If they could find 2 other batters other than the skipper who could average say in the late 30s consistently at the very least, and find a spinner who can actually be played in an 11 at home, this would have been understandable!

alfie wrote:It seems England are at least considering a recall for Moeen.  Not too surprised.

1/ He's in good form in the crash-ball stuff.  OK it ain't Test or FC ; but none of the rest have had much of that lately either.
2/ He can bat much better than Leach , or even Bess.
3/ He has - some while in the past , admittedly , but still quite often - performed really well in Tests. And against India too particularly in England.

As against all that he still doesn't really solve the team balancing issue. Does anyone want to see him batting at five? At eight , sure - certainly gives the tail a big lift . But then you are still stuck with just four bowlers...and he has to provide a lot more control than he's done in more recent appearances. The other option is Moeen as one of five bowlers , batting at seven ahead of , say : Robinson Wood Broad Anderson . I wouldn't mind that so much - if only I had more confidence in the batsmen...I would frankly prefer to keep long batting in place for now. Arguably that policy bought enough time to save the first match - with substantial aid from the patriotic weather of course    Because five bowlers don't help much if you are getting bowled out for under 200 regularly...

Worth discussion certainly. Not sure I'd be going for him in this match though. Top order batting the first issue , I think ; because unless/until that is improved it is hard to see the team getting anywhere.

Think the best option for England is to bat Moeen at 7 and push Buttler up the order to 6. Curran at 8, wood or Robinson at 9. That would be some depth. That will also give them 5 proper bowling options.