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England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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Post by msp83 Sat 14 Aug 2021, 6:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Siraj will have a couple of deliveries at Anderson. The lead is already a nice 25.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 23 Aug 2021, 6:26 pm

I think India have improved massively as a unit since 2018 as well which is getting overlooked a bit in discussions about this series I find. They are a lot tougher now, won't collapse as easily under pressure and will keep their foot on the oppositions throat much better. Pujara absorbing 200 balls of pressure to knacker England's depleted attack, then Bumrah and Shami taking advantage feels like a good example there.

Siraj is a better bowler than Pandya, Jadeja was absent in 2018 and is now a brilliant all-rounder at number 7, Bumrah and Pant are more experienced, Ishant and Shami seem to be following the Broad, Anderson and Southee trait of seamers getting better and better with age these days. Rahul and Rohit are showing very good application to the tough conditions opening the batting too. They are an impressive unit of players who have bought into Kohli's way of playing. In ways they remind me of England under Strauss and Flower when they put together a tight knit squad and just kept improving together as a unit.

If Overton gets the chance to play in England he may well out bowl Curran here but in the Tests I've seen him in thus far he has looked below the standard in that Boyd Rankin and Saj Mahmood bracket. That said I do think England misused Overton as they often do with tall bowlers. He's a swing bowler who can exert extra bounce due to his height. England used him as a hit the deck bowler who can sometimes swing the ball. If he gets picked I hope he is allowed to bowl his natural lengths as a swing bowler.

I'll also admit my view of Overton has been tainted by the Ashar Zaidi incident, how it was pathetically brushed under the carpet and Overton's comments on it as recently as June in Wisden when to paraphrase his defence was effectively, "I don't think I said it, but I'm definitely sorry for not saying it and anyway I can't be racist because I shared a changing room with Azhar Ali". Not ideal.

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Post by msp83 Mon 23 Aug 2021, 6:29 pm

Sam Curran of course had a disaster with the bat and a not really impressive show with the ball in the last test. But along with Root, he played an important role in not giving up the first test. From 155-8 he dragged them pass 180, and then again held his own with the skipper in the 2nd innings too. Probably, had it not been for Curran in both innings, India would have had a greater chance in the first test, despite the weather and all.
But he hasn't quite looked the part of a 4-man seam bowling unit. Overton, again from limited international sightings, doesn't seem like a massive improvement on that though. Sam has the that something extra about him, and it wasn't without reason that he was the player of the series in the 2018 series. When and if Woakes becomes ready, then I think Curran's to give way. Woakes is a pretty decent 3rd seamer, and Sam can be retained if he regains form in the next test even if Woakes returns. Woakes probably may return for Anderson in the 4th test, and they might end up playing Sam and Overton together, depending on how Mahmood goes...

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Post by msp83 Mon 23 Aug 2021, 6:35 pm

king_carlos wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I think how well the Indian pace attack have bowled in the first two tests has changed my mind a bit on the left arm thing. Of course you’d love to have it, but you can’t go wrong just picking your four best seamers and I don’t think SCurran is in that.

With Archer, Broad, Woakes, Stokes and Stone unavailable India have a better seam battery than England though. As depressing as that is to write given it's been England's one strength lately I think it's true.

Jimmy is of course brilliant and Robinson looks like a player capable of a long career but Wood largely struggles at home, Curran is very dependent on conditions (and even so he's out of form), Overton has looked well below the standard required for Test cricket in previous opportunities and Mahmood is raw.

Given how depleted the options are I think wanting variety in the left-arm angle is warranted to an extent.

India are just the better side. Better batsman, a brilliant keeper-batsman, two world class spin bowling all-rounders and 4 quality seam options. Root would probably sell an organ to have Ashwin in his side just to bowl economically alongside Jimmy, let alone for the potential wickets in the 2nd innings. Ashwin isn't even making the India XI! They are a fantastic squad of players who have come a long way since their last visit to England.
Carlos, how has Headingley been playing for spinners in recent times? Is there a chance of India needing to think about replicating 2002 and play both Jadeja and Ashwin together? Barring injuries, have a feeling Ash isn't going to get a look in throughout the series...

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Post by king_carlos Mon 23 Aug 2021, 11:19 pm

Headingley has been seam friendly for a while. The last time a side was 'spun out' so to speak in the 4th innings there was when Mark Craig and Kane Williamson took 6 between them (yep, depressing) in 2015. Even then most the wickets in the match went to seam.

Last Test at Headingley was 2019 Leach and Lyon took 3 wickets between them, all in the second innings.

Bess took 3 wickets in the 2nd innings against Pakistan in 2018 as England won by an innings. Shadab Khan got 1 wicket.

7 wickets fell to spin against the Windies in 2017 with 3 for Roston Chase and 2 for Devindra Bishoo. England's usual trick of losing wickets to part time finger spinners. Moeen got 2 wickets.

In 2016 Regana Herath got a couple in England's 1st innings but England then rolled Sri Lanka twice with 19 of the 20 wickets going to seam in an innings victory.

It would be suicidal for England to prepare a turning pitch with Ashwin and Jadeja available for India combined with how our batsman struggle against spin other than Root and to a small extent Buttler.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 24 Aug 2021, 9:23 am

It looks like this will be the XI from reports I've seen...albeit nothing "solid" from a Dobell/MacPherson yet

Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root, Bairstow, Buttler (wk), Moeen, Overton, Robinson, Mahmood, Anderson.

It is probably what I would go with, all being well too. I don't think Pope should be thrown back in, I think it might be best for him to go back to Surrey when the red ball stuff starts next week and get some match practice in, both from a fitness and form point of view.
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Post by Duty281 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 9:49 am

It's far from the best XI, but it is an XI that should beat India at home. England should have won both of the opening tests, though the weather and Joe Root's captaincy undermined them. Bairstow and Buttler are showing some promise with the bat, so a big score might be around the corner for either/both of them. Root in the form of his life, as we know. Anything that the top three can get is a bonus, I really don't see Malan being an improvement over Sibley, but I would like to be proved wrong. If Hameed can get some time in the middle this test that could be valuable going forward, even if he doesn't score many.

Meanwhile India are well overdue to have a torrid time with the bat. I just hope Root has stopped believing that Bumrah is the second coming of Tendulkar.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:10 am

Eng should realign with harsh reality & change the script from Seaming/ grassy pitches to flat batting friendly pitches
The reality being Indian seam attack is superior to that of Eng
and Indian batting is handling seam conditions reasonably well

A Flatter pitch will be Eng's best chance of eking out a draw
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Post by alfie Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:21 am

I am inclined to agree with Olly on the XI though I note Harmison advocating for the extra batsman in Pope and a four man attack of Moeen Overton Robinson and Anderson - which is certainly maximising the batting Smile  And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Curran is retained. So some variety in choices available.

I see Duty is continuing to predict an Indian meltdown ; but they've managed to confound that expectation rather well so far. I do think their batting seems a lot more solid than on previous visits - or is the England bowling making them look so by lacking a bit of an edge ?  The tail looks weak but so far has massively outperformed the supposedly stronger England last five.  Not sure we can expect a collapse to just fall into the home team's lap.

That said , I do think there is a serious chance of some sort of fightback from England this week. 1/ They have to as it is surely now or never. 2/ They don't often lose two in a row at home. 3/ They had the better of more than half the last game before imploding at the end  : that sort of event , if it doesn't destroy them completely , often sees a team get it right next time around. And 4/ Although India is clearly the stronger team (how many England players would be considered for a combined team right now ? Two ?) they aren't so massively better that at least one game might not go the other way...

But maybe that is just me being hopeful. We shall see. At least if we get a game that changes by the day as the first two have done we won't be bored...

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Post by alfie Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:27 am

KP_fan wrote:Eng should realign with harsh reality & change the script from Seaming/ grassy pitches to flat batting friendly pitches
The reality being Indian seam attack is superior to that of Eng
and Indian batting is handling seam conditions reasonably well

A Flatter pitch will be Eng's best chance of eking out a draw

Except they haven't really been seaming grassy pitches. Just basically decent batting pitches on which India have mostly batted and bowled better. And anyway England are rubbish at "eking out draws" . To be honest , I suspect a real seamer's pitch and a low scoring game would represent England's best chance. Not that I expect such this week. Think it will be similar to the first two and overhead conditions will once again have a lot of say.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:28 am

I can't help but think that the relative strengths of both teams is being exaggerated because of one horror session. The Indian team is a decent one but I don't see any real improvement in the side that was comprehensively beaten 4-1 last time around, the bowling unit is much the same as is the batting. The only reason this series is going to be close is the amount of bowlers that England have missing most notably Stokes, Woakes, Broad and Archer, if the four of them are fit the series is there for England to win fairly comfortably.

A lot is being made of the Indian batsman improving but I don't see it myself, they've just come off on occasion unlike the last tour where aside from Kohli they failed time and time again; Pujara scored a good century but other than was poor. The England batting line up is no worse than it was back than either, it doesn't have the name Alastair Cook on it but the first four matches of that series his returns were no better than Burns or Sibley this time around.

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Post by sirfredperry Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:50 am

Have to disagree about the relative strengths of the 2018 and 2021 Indian sides.

I think this summer's side is stronger than the 2018 one. Yes, the Big Three in the batting have made modest returns so far. But the openers have been solid and the supposedly weak tail has wagged.

The bowling is also stronger, IMHO, even without Ashwin! England, in contrast, are far weaker than in 2018. It's thanks to Root that the home side have been able to compete in the two Tests.

India will be firm favourites for Leeds. But the England batting line-up suggested by Good Golly I'm Olly above is the strongest (or least-weakest) so far and at least gives England a chance.

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Post by sirfredperry Tue 24 Aug 2021, 10:53 am

News that ECB bigwigs, who got rid of more than 60 staff of late, have been awarded (given themselves?) big bonuses on top of their large salaries, is absolutely disgraceful.

My rant continues under our Domestic Cricket topic....

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Post by msp83 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 12:56 pm

India surely is a better, more confident side than they were in 2018. Rohit has found a way to succeed in test cricket, and with Rahul, have formed a good combination at the top of the order. Last time round, Murali Vijay was on last legs of his career so was Dhawan, Rahul was far too inconsistent, and Pant was on his debut tour. Jadeja didn't play most of the matches either. The team is far more settled, and the bowling unit has nicely come together.
England of course are without Alastair Cook, and have never managed to replace him, or for that matter the long-retired Andrew Strauss at the top of the order. There of course is no Ben Stokes, and Broad, Archer and Woakes, all are on injury list too. And their batting unit, barring the magnificent Joe Root, is a pretty average one. Looks like Zimbabwe during Andi Flower's days. From time to time an Alastair Campbell, or a Grant Flower or some lower order all-rounder, would chip in, but it was Andi who carried the side. England currently is looking like that, though they see the likes of Oliver Pope, technical limitations and all, to evolve into a proper test batter and move on the 20-something mode, the reality isthat other than an inconsistent Jonny Bairstow, none of them are there at that point yet, and it is too much of a liability on Root who is world class. Unlike Zimbabwe o old though, England's bowling, despite all the injuries, is still fairly decent, and in Anderson, they have a top world class operator.
And I would disagree with KPF here, England's best chance would be on  a rank green top where the batting can be more equalized where their depth might give them a bit of advantage, and they would be in with a better chance...

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Post by king_carlos Tue 24 Aug 2021, 2:21 pm

India of 2018 to India of 2021 remind me a lot of how England improved under Andy Flower. The personnel stayed relatively consistent, which was probably key to the improvements, but they became much tougher as a unit and grew as individual players as well.

Jadeja has settled into that number 7 role and become a fantastic all rounder. He is an incomparable bowling all rounder to Hardik Pandya.

Bumrah is more experienced and keeps improving as a bowler. Likewise with Pant who's glovework has come a long way.

Shami and Ishant look to be bowling as well now as they ever have - there's an interesting trend of seamers improving with age when you look at Anderson, Broad, Southee and Ishant.

Siraj in his current form is a significant improvement on Pandya as a 4th seamer.

Rohit is playing the red ball as well as I've seen him. The same with Rahul.

England have a lot of seamers absent but over the winter India were missing Jadeja and in stepped Axar Patel to bowl very well and play a starring role. England on the other hand have Sam Curran struggling to make the same impact as he did in 2018 even when the conditions suit and are now likely to go back to Overton.

Shorn of Broad, Archer, Woakes and Stokes this is the weakest England side I've seen at home for a long time and they are playing a really impressive Indian side.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 2:29 pm

England (probable): 1 Rory Burns, 2 Haseeb Hameed, 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Joe Root (capt), 5 Jonny Bairstow, 6 Jos Buttler (wk), 7 Moeen Ali, 8 Sam Curran, 9 Ollie Robinson, 10 Craig Overton/Saqib Mahmood, 11 James Anderson.

India (probable): 1 KL Rahul, 2 Rohit Sharma, 3 Cheteshwar Pujara, 4 Virat Kohli (capt), 5 Ajinkya Rahane, 6 Rishabh Pant (wk), 7 Ravindra Jadeja, 8 Mohammed Shami, 9 Hanuma Vihari/Ishant Sharma, 10 Jasprit Bumrah, 11 Mohammed Siraj.

Cricinfo's expected teams. England as expected with the final call resting on Mahmood v Overton. Overton's had a better FC season and offers more with the bat; Mahmood has registered some good ODI performances and contributes extra pace with the ball.

India mostly as expected, still no Ashwin anticipated, but apparently India are debating strengthening their batting with Vihari (who can contribute a second spin option) at the expense of Sharma. Vihari's test average (33) currently well below his FC average (55) with the bat. He did play three FC games for Warwickshire in April averaging a meagre 16.66, so he may not add a lot to India's batting if chosen.

Weather expected to be dry and overcast for the five days, with a slow pitch and not much grass. Expecting England to win this one - as I did last time, only for them to blow it on day five having done 90% of the hard work - and kick on to a series win.

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Post by msp83 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 5:13 pm

Vihari did save India the SCG test when he played the last time for sure, but he's not quite there v the moving ball in my view. If one of the quicks goes out, it should be for Ashwin to come back in. Jadeja currently, is a better test bat than Vihari, and Jadeja will be more like wasted at 8. When he used to bat at 8, he used to throw his bat at everything, never batted like a batter. And Vihari's bowling is pedestrian and nowhere near international class, not even of the Tendulkar/Sehwag/Ganguly/Yuvraj standards, so no point playing him for the 5-6 overs that he may be able to offer. If they want a batter to get a look in, I hope it will be Suryakumar Yadav. Of course he wasn't in the original squad, and he has made his case in recent times through limited overs performances. He is not exactly that young either. But there is something extra about him, and he's on peak of his game...

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Post by msp83 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 5:17 pm

SKY can also bowl a bit of the military medium stuff that won't be much different in quality to Vihari's right-arm slow.

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Post by msp83 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 5:20 pm

Having produced a great result with the team he went with in the last game, Virat must be confident, and could go even more fancy and end up doing the usual selection debacle with the Vihari selection though. But though he hasn't been scoring runs and winning tosses, he's been getting it right with the selections, and Vihari might end up scoring a ton and take a 2nd innings 5for! But I really really hope, that Virat doesn't go anywhere near there!

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Post by msp83 Tue 24 Aug 2021, 7:08 pm

Kohli's pre-match talk has hinted only at the small possibility of an Ashwin comeback, as the pitch seems to be dry without much grass cover. He suggested he doesn't have too many reasons to change things around after a great victory, but the final call will be after seeing the pitch on the morning of the match. I guess Vihari is not really in contention, thankfully

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Post by KP_fan Tue 24 Aug 2021, 8:35 pm

Vihari ain't coming.....unless one of the regular batters is injured or Pujara handed an injury of convenience.
I have a slight suspicion Pujara will be injured or dropped tomm...with Vihari coming into in the guise of covering 2nd spin option.

SKY would be the replacement if Rahane or Kohli or Pant were to be injured
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Post by sirfredperry Wed 25 Aug 2021, 7:16 am

England, of late, rarely lose two home Tests in a row. In fact, they seem to be at their most dangerous having just lost.

However, India will be firm favourites for Leeds today. The hope for England is their batting line-up has looked progressively stronger, at least on paper, with each Test.

The worry though is that said batsmen keep getting out not just for low scores but for nought. Not sure what the ducks-in-a-series record is, but England could well break it in this series.*

* LATER: This from The Guardian: "Flap forward to 2021 and England’s Test lineup are quacking as much as creaking. Between them they have 39 ducks in 10 matches with six more Tests to come this year, three each against the predatory bowling lineups of India and Australia. The current side must be odds on to “beat” their record-breaking “year of the duck” in 1998 where they racked up 54 plumy noughts in 16 Tests."


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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 7:42 am

England big favourites for me. They should be 2-0 up and nearly out of sight, but fate and Root's captaincy has conspired against them. India will try to intimidate England again, but this is England's turf and no one comes to England and wins a series (except New Zealand, that's only because we secretly like them).

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Post by alfie Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:02 am

Duty281 wrote:England big favourites for me. They should be 2-0 up and nearly out of sight,  but fate and Root's captaincy has conspired against them. India will try to intimidate England again, but this is England's turf and no one comes to England and wins a series (except New Zealand, that's only because we secretly like them).

You must be watching a different game to me , Duty Smile    England have competed , at best. But to suggest they should be "nearly out of sight " ? Seriously ? Maybe in India's rear vision mirror...

I do agree they threw the last one away ; but they were never more than hanging on in the first match and frankly owe a lot to the weather for the draw.

I reckon this will be the decisive match of the summer . If England can come back to win it then they may well go on from there . But if India take it then heaven help the home team (and probably Silverwood) because coming back from two down really would be dreamland. So no pressure then Smile

 On all the evidence , India start favourites. But favourites don't always succeed...I have a hunch this one may be another good contest.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:12 am

Struggling to see anything bar an India victory here personally - Root can't keep propping up the batting on his own, and I struggle to see anyone who will pickup the baton if he fails. Not a fan of the changes either, albeit something had to be done I guess...and do hope Hameed can show more in this game, as he unfortunately did look a rabbit in the headlights at Lords.

Do hope they give Mahmood a run out...but does feel like it would be a touch harsh on Overton, who's been in squads all summer, to then be passed on again in this injury crisis
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:18 am

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/cricket/rob-key-column-england-county-cricket-b952090.html

Interesting article from Rob Key in the standard here - don't think I agree with all the points he makes, but his general gist around the county championship and championship pitches is certainly one I subscribe too, when it comes to producing test batsmen.
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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:42 am

I think that Rob Key is correct in the context of opening batsman, there are times when it is nigh on impossible to score runs in England and it's been that way for a long time. It was no coincidence that Trescothick and Vaughan averaged more in test cricket than they did in first class cricket, the bowlers are more skillful but the movement is more predictable so if you have good technique you can excel.

Burns and Sibley get in a mess for two reasons, technically they aren't up to opening the batting but they also play for more movement than there actually is; the later when attempting to play the cover drive is a case in point, he over compensates and inside edges a lot. This can also apply to your number threes but your stroke makers like Pope and Lawrence should in theory be less affected by it when the ball is older and moves less through the air.

I will say however that Key predictably oversells Bairstow, Moeen and Buttler, sky pundits do have a habit of giving the white ball players a free pass; Buttler has looked awful this summer, his head is very heavy at the moment and destabilising his balance which is down to playing so much white ball stuff. Bairstow has in fairness worked out on ironing out his flaws to the straight one but like Rohit is a bit too tricky happy pulling.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:45 am

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England big favourites for me. They should be 2-0 up and nearly out of sight,  but fate and Root's captaincy has conspired against them. India will try to intimidate England again, but this is England's turf and no one comes to England and wins a series (except New Zealand, that's only because we secretly like them).

You must be watching a different game to me , Duty Smile    England have competed , at best. But to suggest they should be "nearly out of sight "  ?  Seriously ?  Maybe in India's rear vision mirror...

I do agree they threw the last one away ; but they were never more than hanging on in the first match and frankly owe a lot to the weather for the draw.

I reckon this will be the decisive match of the summer . If England can come back to win it then they may well go on from there . But if India take it then heaven help the home team (and probably Silverwood) because coming back from two down really would be dreamland. So no pressure then Smile

 On all the evidence , India start favourites. But favourites don't always succeed...I have a hunch this one may be another good contest.

I think England would have won the first test had it reached a natural conclusion, but weather denied them. England controlled the second test through days two-four, then it was a horror show. They should be 2-0 up. They've played the better cricket, overall in this series, but two sessions of madness on day five has left them 0-1 down.

I'm not buying that India start favourites. On form, Joe Root is the best batsmen in the world, and is dragging the rest of the team up. Bairstow and Buttler are showing signs of form. It's far from great, but India have their own batting issues with a delicate middle-order, no talisman and a long tail. India's shocker with the bat will come.

Bowling-wise Anderson and Robinson are in sterling form - Robinson under-bowled and not quite getting the requisite fortune in the last test; Anderson due to get second-innings wickets after what Soul said. If Mahmood is picked today I think India will struggle to handle him. I'm only worried about Siraj with regards to India's bowling, he's in superb form, the rest have been inconsistent.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 9:55 am

https://youtu.be/wamtTEVFDiA

Two years to the day since Stokes played one of the greatest innings of all time. Two years already. Still can't believe Lyon missed the run-out chance.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:05 am

I feared this - Shane Warne has joined up with the Sky team after his Hundred coaching gig. Pain on the ears incoming
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:22 am

No new caps handed out - so no Saqib
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Post by guildfordbat Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:24 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I feared this - Shane Warne has joined up with the Sky team after his Hundred coaching gig. Pain on the ears incoming

Hi Olly - share your fears. Tbf, he was ok during the few minutes I just heard him alongside Atherton and Ward. It's imperative others on Sky keep him under control and don't encourage him to be ''funny''. Something he fails at appallingly.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:26 am

Shame about no Mahmood, there'll be little variety in the attack.

Sounds like it could be a bowl-first morning with plenty of cloud cover, won't have too long to wait.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:28 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I feared this - Shane Warne has joined up with the Sky team after his Hundred coaching gig. Pain on the ears incoming

Hi Olly - share your fears. Tbf, he was ok during the few minutes I just heard him alongside Atherton and Ward. It's imperative others on Sky keep him under control and don't encourage him to be ''funny''. Something he fails at appallingly.

To be fair to Warne, when he's speaking about the game or bowling itself, and not being almost "the joker" he is actually pretty insightful (of course he is, he's the best leggie of all time!). Similar to Kevin Pietersen in that regard.

Just don't have them being buffoons please...
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Post by JDizzle Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:30 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:No new caps handed out - so no Saqib

Dobell pointed out Twitter that Overton has been practicing at third slip and is an excellent slip fielder. Not saying that will have anyway influenced picking him over Saqib, but a nice bonus to have.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:31 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:No new caps handed out - so no Saqib

Good spot there by you and also George Dobell. Pleased that Dobell has been tweeting the praises of Tim 'Viscount' Linley and encouraging those at this Test to get along to his Leeds coffee shop.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:35 am

Nope, not a bowl-first morning. Kohli - at last - wins the toss and bats first. Don't think Root will be too disappointed. India unchanged and Malan and Overton are in for England.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:38 am

A seam attack of Anderson, Robinson, Overton and Curran. England had better hope it isn't a flat track!
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Post by eirebilly Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:49 am

Sam Curran lucky to get selected again today. I would have had Mahmood and Overton myself.

I do prefer this batting line up, I truly hope that Hameed has a good game,
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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:51 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:A seam attack of Anderson, Robinson, Overton and Curran. England had better hope it isn't a flat track!

Hope England don't end up with an attack like that in Australia! Steve Smith would break Lara's record.

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Post by msp83 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:55 am

Virat Kohli won a toss at last in England! India batting first. Root thinks the pitch will become better for batting later on and isn't disappointed to lose the toss. No Ashwin for India yet again and the 4 first choice quicks and Jadeja to do the job with the ball. The track, with no green cover, how will it play come day 4 and 5? Will they miss Ash? I would have had him in the playing side, but unlike in the last match, Kohli has greater reasons to go unchanged here...

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:56 am

Was rather hoping that England would bat first. Most Eng victories come when they bat first, although some notable, and memorable exceptions are Melbourne 2010, Nott'm 2015 and, of course, Headingley in 2019.

I think Root, though, might have been glad not to have to make a decision. Not sure why Curran is playing but he might surprise me.
Still think India are missing a trick not playing Ashwin.

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Post by msp83 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 10:59 am

Last time when India played here, India's middle order stalwarts, Dravid, Tendulkar and Ganguly all scored hundreds. Hope Pujara, Kohli and Rahane can replicate something like that 19 years later...

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Post by alfie Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:02 am

So no Mahmood. Hope the ball moves because they don't now have an extreme pace option. Bat deep , I guess.

India unchanged as expected. And happy to bat first it seems. Makes a change for Kohli to win a toss !

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Post by alfie Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:04 am

Maybe a little less happy after Jimmy snares Rahul for a duck...

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Post by Duty281 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:06 am

Get in Jimmy, the timeless master. Yahoo

That's the opener England needed to get early.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:08 am

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Totally deserved win for India. clap
Totally deserved loss for England. Shocked

More later.

Well summed up. Hope your "more" includes a magic formula to change things around or this is going to be an English summer to rival 1999.

A very belated follow up and still no ''magic formula''. Just a few quick random points.

1. Like Alfie, I'm not confident going into this one. For me and as posted by Sir Fred and others, the domestic schedule is very wrong and it's hard not to see that impacting on England. No red ball cricket played by the counties for about six weeks and still none until Bank Holiday Monday.
2. Sibley is dropped and told to go and work on his game in the Championship. No issue with him being dropped but he can't work on his game in the Championship if there ain't no Championship cricket.
3. Is Hameed ready to replace Sibley? I rather doubt it. As Olly says, he looked a frightened rabbits in the headlights upon his return. Seems strange to go from two failures at number 3 to open but accept something had to happen. As it would be unfair ito keep quiet on what I would have done, I would have called up Chis Dent in a (wild) gamble that he turned into our version of Chris Rogers - not though with great confidence.
4. Hard to see England developing Test match spinners when the majority of county red ball games are squeezed into April and September.
5. Without setting things on fire, Moeen at least didn't let himself or England down last time. That was better than many expected and he merits retaining his place.
6. Incredible though that Ashwin remains on the bench for India. If he was England qualified, he would be second or third name on our team sheet behind only Root and perhaps Anderson.
7. I do like Robinson's bowling and, like Nasser in the Sky preview, feel Headingly (where I think he started out?) could suit him. He's taken so well to Tests with 16 wickets in his first 3 Tests. Just need him contributing more with the bat (India showed the value of their seamers doing that last time). So valuable to have a couple of genuine number 8s batting at 8 and 9 whilst it's a real weakness to have a genuine number 9 going in at 8.

Oh well, that'll do. Would emphasise it's the schedule I'm unhappy with and how things fit together rather than The Hundred. I'll leave comments about India for another time.


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Post by alfie Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:10 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I feared this - Shane Warne has joined up with the Sky team after his Hundred coaching gig. Pain on the ears incoming

If someone in the box has a "mute" switch they could use when he starts to run off at the mouth he'd be OK as he has some excellent insights at times. Trouble is he has a compulsion to fill any split second of silence with talk - even when he has nothing to say.

Real nightmare would be him and KP in tandem .

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:17 am

Opener gone for a duck. Story of the Tests of late. Wait a minute. It's India batting...

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Post by alfie Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:23 am

Both Anderson and Robinson testing the bats with a fair bit of movement - good lines so far.

Sun out now which is probably not what England want ....

Never mind : Jimmy has his second ...Pujara gone for just one thumbsup

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Post by msp83 Wed 25 Aug 2021, 11:24 am

Seems an England turnaround is in progress! Anderson gets Pujara! India struggling at 4-2. Time for the skipper to play a defining innings...

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