Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Should we be there?

Well if you dont mind whats happening now and support sharia law then I guess not.

[super_realist]

I've read only 3 countries use these measurements.

And why would any business want to buy in kilos and grams to sell in pounds and ounces. Seems very backwards.

Personally i think it would be stupid, but no one is dictating that anyone use imperial measurements in shops, only that they be permitted to do so, which is something that the EU dictated we couldn't
Given that we still use feet, inches, pints, stones, pounds, gallons, miles etc who bloody cares?

[super_realist]

Super

Not sure why she should put on a mawkish facade to try and look sorry for what she did. She was a kid, she fell in with the wrong man. Why punish her for it?

She was m
married at all when she left to join a death cult. She didnt even know the men she married before she went out there, so dont try and blame her husband for indoctrinaring her when she had never even met him.

[dynamark]

Just remembered the Shard tower in London all the drawings were in yards feet and inches .Architect was based in Hong Kong and everything was imperial.We priced the hotel interior fitout absolute nightmare as every floor and every room was different due to the taper and we had to convert.If I remember correct the electric window blinds cost £6 mil

[super_realist]

Isn't the NHS regularly rated in the top ten healthcare systems in the world?

I'm not denying it's mismanaged but there is a degree of assuming everywhere else is better.

Depends how/what you measure, waiting times? Outcomes? Lifesaves? Cost per life saved? Throughput per capita? Range of services available? Ability to flex to changing requirements?

If the NHS is comparatively good at any of those things just measure it regularly and voila!! We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (from somebody’s statistical viewpoint).

Gut feel (and it is only from personal experience) there is huge potential for the NHS to be what most would reasonably expect it to be, there are bureaucratic irritations that hold it back somewhat. It could do better if it was managed better and that is no sleight on those on the frontline who do an admirable job.

On a cost and result basis the NHS remarkably efficient. Its very easy to complain about bureaucracy (and that can always be improved) but by and large its a lot better than, say, US medicine. I am sure there are many other countries have as good or better systems, and we should learn from those, but going the American route is the worst possible option.

One of the fundamental reasons the NHS works well is that because its free at the point of use people look for treatment early instead of waiting until they have no choice. Catching and treating problems early is a hell of a lot cheaper and gives better outcomes than the alternative.

Health care is expensive however you look at it, just like social care, welfare or whatever. Looking after your population is always expensive and ultimately you can't avoid paying for it, you can only control how you pay for it.

Difficult to even compare the UKs Universal Healthcare System and the MasterCard sponsored "you'd better be rich if you need serious healthcare" quagmire that is the US system, hell that's a low bar comparison if it even is a comparison at all. Where the comparisons become interesting is when you compare to other European Nations especially the high wage, high tax, high spend countries like Sweden, Denmark etc.

The NHS is efficient in some ways but it is extremely profligate in others, without wishing to put too much of a political spin on it, Blairs PFI initiatives have a lot to answer for in terms of how much private companies suck the financial lifeblood out of the NHS

The rate of tax is not so different in Denmark and Norway as
you would think. Only about 6%
I dontt knkw why anyone would ever bring uo the US as a point of comparison as its clearly useless.
Lifeblood of NHS is sucked out by its own poor management and increasingly lazy, fat, idle population.

[super_realist]

Oh no, a government minister said the term "transexual" instead of "trans" in 2018. What a disgrace.

Have these offence archaeologists got nothing better to, do?

[beninho]

Didn't the equalities minister also say trans women are men? Maybe she wisened up a bit in 3 years.

Still very surprised people still get so riled about trans people. It's very strange.

[beninho]

Any tories here, got a good reason for us to jump in with the US again on the Australia agreement. Is it just to show they don't care about European countries, and keep the base happy? Seems strange to want to pee off your neighbours.

[Soul Requiem]

From a security point of view it makes sense, the USA are our closest allies in that regard rather than anyone in Europe. If France or anyone else is upset by it that's their problem, not sure why we would be appeasing them.

[beninho]

From a security point of view it makes sense, the USA are our closest allies in that regard rather than anyone in Europe. If France or anyone else is upset by it that's their problem, not sure why we would be appeasing them.

You just buy into anything don't they. Do you think strictly having g same sex dancers is woke?

[Soul Requiem]

From a security point of view it makes sense, the USA are our closest allies in that regard rather than anyone in Europe. If France or anyone else is upset by it that's their problem, not sure why we would be appeasing them.

You just buy into anything don't they.   Do you think strictly having g same sex dancers is woke?

Whereas you just complain about everything. It's pretty simple, the US have been our closest military ally for a number of years now not the EU. You seem to think we should be beholden to the whims of Europe on every issue, it's quite sad.

This isn't anything new, we've been a member of the five eyes since 1941.

I don't have an opinion on strictly either way but someone has clearly upset you again.

[beninho]

But where is the benefit to the UK, apart from getting into an issue with a close neighbour?

No ones upset me, you just seem the sort who wouldn't like same sex dancers. You are one of those who shout woke at things. So just wondered. I always like to find out what makes crazy right wing nut jobs tick.

[Soul Requiem]

I don't generally care about things that don't affect me hence not having an opinion on strictly. It's your feeble generalisations that amuse me most, ooh right wing nutjob, not heard that one before. The argument tends to be lost when you have no other option but resort to insults, I'll take it as a compliment.

An issue with France... again, that's new. The benefit is in working with your closest allies on worldwide security. I realise we shouldn't do anything without the EUs say so but here we are.

[beninho]

But we've just been done over by America in Afghanistan  yet back we jump like a puppy.   What's this got to do with the UK? Are we just moral support?

And I've not mentioned the EU, just France.

[beninho]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/19/universal-credit-cut-will-push-800000-people-into-poverty-boris-johnson-warned

Always strange to be siding with IDS

[dynamark]

gents ladies could I just advise that Xmas will be cancelled due to lack of Turkeys ,there will be no toys for your children and also your gas bill will be astronomical .
However you could just give the children some empty boxes which they always enjoy and use the money you have saved to pay the gas(plus an extra sweater) .Turkeys you may need to go to your local halal butcher who will happily slaughter any poor creature by traditional means.
What a load of tosh is it a slow news week?

[lostinwales]

gents ladies could I just advise that Xmas will be cancelled due to lack of Turkeys ,there will be no toys for your children and also your gas bill will be astronomical .
However you could just give the children some empty boxes which they always enjoy and use the money you have saved to pay the gas(plus an extra sweater) .Turkeys you may need to go to your local halal butcher who will happily slaughter any poor creature by traditional means.
What a load of tosh is it a slow news week?

And when it isn't this bad it will be pushed as some kind of victory.

[lostinwales]

From a security point of view it makes sense, the USA are our closest allies in that regard rather than anyone in Europe. If France or anyone else is upset by it that's their problem, not sure why we would be appeasing them.

Where does this assumption come from? Our French allies are only 20 miles away. Ireland even closer, and we have a close degree of cooperation with them. The Danish fought alongside British forces in Afghanistan (taking the highest casualties of any allied forces per soldier committed). We had military bases in Germany until not that long ago. We recruit soldiers direct from Fiji and Nepal. Lots of countries we have close military ties to.

[super_realist]

But where is the benefit to the UK, apart from getting into an issue with a close neighbour?

No ones upset me, you just seem the sort who wouldn't like same sex dancers. You are one of those who shout woke at things. So just wondered.  I always like to find out what makes crazy right wing nut jobs tick.  

Benefit to Britain? BAE Systems.

[super_realist]

Didn't the equalities minister also say trans women are men? Maybe she wisened up a bit in 3 years.

Still very surprised people still get so riled about trans people. It's very strange.

I don't think they do, I think they are just a bit confused as to why people are having to moderate their speech to accommodate what microscopically small percentage of the population? All these silly requests from Business and Universities to change their email signatures to include whatever their "pronoun" is this week is all a bit far.

If you're trans, transexual or whatever and want to state what your pronoun is, no one cares, but not one else should be encouraged to.

[beninho]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

[super_realist]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

When? You sound like a BBC "comedy" panelist lile Nish Kumar.
Why are you still going on about Brexit?  Why not get over it and crack on?

Energy prices are dictated by the global market, not Brexit.
I voted to remain, i've accepted the result, why cant you?

[beninho]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

When? You sound like a BBC "comedy" panelist lile Nish Kumar.
Why are you still going on about Brexit?  Why not get over it and crack on?

What? You think people shouldn't have views on things they don't like? Why did the people who wanted brexit keep banging on about it for years? Shouldn't they have just cracked on, with how it was?

Maybe, I'm just not as keen on the lies, as you are.

[Soul Requiem]

From a security point of view it makes sense, the USA are our closest allies in that regard rather than anyone in Europe. If France or anyone else is upset by it that's their problem, not sure why we would be appeasing them.

Where does this assumption come from? Our French allies are only 20 miles away. Ireland even closer, and we have a close degree of cooperation with them. The Danish fought alongside British forces in Afghanistan (taking the highest casualties of any allied forces per soldier committed). We had military bases in Germany until not that long ago. We recruit soldiers direct from Fiji and Nepal. Lots of countries we have close military ties to.

Top comment LIW, thank you for the geography lesson. There may well be other countries we have close military ties to but none of them are as important as the US, are you suggesting that by virtue of proximity that the UK has a closer military relationship with Ireland and France?

[beninho]

The government are planning to cut the benefits for the lowest earners in society at a time when food and energy is rising, and then tax them more aswell. And people just love it! But then they rename a dept to something about levelling up.

[JAS]

I don't generally care about things that don't affect me hence not having an opinion on strictly. It's your feeble generalisations that amuse me most, ooh right wing nutjob, not heard that one before. The argument tends to be lost when you have no other option but resort to insults, I'll take it as a compliment.

An issue with France... again, that's new. The benefit is in working with your closest allies on worldwide security. I realise we shouldn't do anything without the EUs say so but here we are.

Nice to see you took on board my retort to you last week ;-)

[dynamark]

I think you will find there is a price cap on energy until next April for domestic consumers May well be a problem after that but long term gas has to go.The £20 was never billed as more than temporary measure but obviously a bit hard to take.Tax is not going up ? until you hit the NI threshold.Its a collective and we all have to chip in to pay for recent issues. Best way to make a good living is to work harder and longer.

[McLaren]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

When? You sound like a BBC "comedy" panelist lile Nish Kumar.
Why are you still going on about Brexit?  Why not get over it and crack on?

Energy prices are dictated by the global market, not Brexit.
I voted to remain, i've accepted the result, why cant you?

What you mean by accept the result?

Should we just accept the result of the most recent general election and abandon our democracy?

[lostinwales]

I think you will find there is a price cap on energy until next April for domestic consumers May well  be a problem after that but long term gas has to go.The £20 was never billed as more than temporary measure but obviously a bit hard to take.Tax is not going up ? until you hit the NI threshold.Its a collective and  we all have to chip in to pay for recent issues. Best way to make a good living is to work harder and longer.

The £20 was a temporary measure but it is a far more effective route to supporting and boosting the economy than paying a few million over the odds for a dodgy PPE deal. You have to ask yourself what will the result of this action be? The undeserving poor eh?

As for the rest that is such a glib response. Sorry nurse you should not be looking after people if you want a decent income? It is never quite as simple as just 'work harder'. Luck, class, smartness, qualifications all make a huge difference. (And what does work longer mean? longer hours? till you are older?). If its longer hours then there are plenty of roles where you really don't want them working the extra.

You might be interested in this twitter thread. This guy is an HGV driver, so right now has got a decent pay rise. He can't work longer. In it he describes his day. https://twitter.com/thelorryist/status/1439612734681845764

[beninho]

I've just noticed realist edited something in about the energy prices. I get they are set globally or whatever. But, if the claim was brexit will bring down energy prices, then surely that just needs calling out as a lie?

[Soul Requiem]

https://www.ft.com/content/b1ce2232-b25a-4fd9-9b80-04da79fa68b9

The current trend sees every issue blamed on Brexit regardless of whether it is or not. If you pick your battles better people might listen rather than having a stock response for everything.

[beninho]

I'm not blaming brexit, though it's funny how uk power said that after brexit costs will raise. I'm calling out the claims that johnson and others said, that brexit will mean that costs will reduce.

Now, as everyone is saying its not brexit related, surely everyone accepts that it was wrong or a lie, to misinform people with sonething that couldn't be promised?

I'm guessing people aren't in so deep that they struggle to see it.

[beninho]

https://twitter.com/purplehornet/status/1439851592455446528?s=19

Anyone know why we pay so much more for energy compared to other countries?

[Soul Requiem]

I'm not blaming brexit, though it's funny how uk power said that after brexit costs will raise. I'm calling out the claims that johnson and others said, that brexit will mean that costs will reduce.

Now, as everyone is saying its not brexit related, surely everyone accepts that it was wrong or a lie, to misinform people with sonething that couldn't be promised?

I'm guessing people aren't in so deep that they struggle to see it.

That isn't what your original post was about at all, just your usual moving of the goalposts. A proposed reduction of VAT on energy is something that can be promised, the current climate does not allow for it however.

[beninho]

I'm not blaming brexit, though it's funny how uk power said that after brexit costs will raise. I'm calling out the claims that johnson and others said, that brexit will mean that costs will reduce.

Now, as everyone is saying its not brexit related, surely everyone accepts that it was wrong or a lie, to misinform people with sonething that couldn't be promised?

I'm guessing people aren't in so deep that they struggle to see it.

That isn't what your original post was about at all, just your usual moving of the goalposts. A proposed reduction of VAT on energy is something that can be promised, the current climate does not allow for it however.

So, they shouldn't have said brexit will lead to cheaper bills, when they couldn't make the promise? And, those goalposts have not been moved.

[beninho]

How come in 2019, the national grid estimated an increase for UK consumers due to the impact of Brexit. Though when we have an increase, its not to do with the impact of Brexit?

[Soul Requiem]

How come in 2019, the national grid estimated an increase for UK consumers due to the impact of Brexit. Though when we have an increase, its not to do with the impact of Brexit?

So you think the current natural gas shortage is due to Brexit?

[beninho]

How come in 2019, the national grid estimated an increase for UK consumers due to the impact of Brexit. Though when we have an increase, its not to do with the impact of Brexit?

So you think the current natural gas shortage is due to Brexit?

I have no idea about the natural gas shortage. I'm not an expert on it. But, that's not really my point
Maybe it's just a coincidence that the energy companies warned of an increase in costs, and we have one. But it seems they were more on point then vote leave who said brexit will reduce energy bills.

But, I still think its pretty shoddy to see the increase in food and energy, but want to make the poorest poorer.

[Soul Requiem]

You have no idea about the gas shortage, the very thing causing a rise in wholesale prices but continue to comment on it?

[beninho]

Because, my point isn't about the gas shortage.

My point is that vote leave were wrong to say they would reduce energy bills after brexit, as shown, they don't have that power.

My other point is, about cutting benefits while seeing increases in energy and gas, its got to be a certain sort of person to think that's a good idea.

[beninho]

And if we only talked about things we were experts on this place would be pretty dull.

[Soul Requiem]

In other news; gas shortages have nothing to do with potential energy price increase.

[dynamark]

Hey I think a nurse gets a reasonable rate if pay these days and the driver doesnt seem to mention his rate of pay.Mate of mine does it East Midlands to Heathrow every day early morning and picks up close to £1k a week gross. The lorry driver is a good example of a guy working really hard and no doubt rewarded. If you are fit and hungry for it you can make very good money

[beninho]

In other news; gas shortages have nothing to do with potential energy price increase.

Do you think that low income workers shoukd have their benefits cut, at a time when energy and food is increasing, and they will have more tax to pay?

[JAS]

Jeez, the spectre of state bailouts for energy companies eh?? great how neoliberal capitalism works…and when it doesn’t and fails to cope with events, good ol state interventionist socialism is wheeled in to save the day…but don’t dare call it that, we’re not Soviets we’re freedom loving Small c conservatives…aye right!!

[super_realist]

Jeez, the spectre of state bailouts for energy companies eh?? great how neoliberal capitalism works…and when it doesn’t and fails to cope with events, good ol state interventionist socialism is wheeled in to save the day…but don’t dare call it that, we’re not Soviets we’re freedom loving Small c conservatives…aye right!!

These arent energy companies really. They have nothing to do with energy really. Theyre brokers and traders set up to take advantage of previously low gas prices. Their business model doesnt stand up to the rigours of the market and rightly they wont survive.

[super_realist]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

When? You sound like a BBC "comedy" panelist lile Nish Kumar.
Why are you still going on about Brexit?  Why not get over it and crack on?

Energy prices are dictated by the global market, not Brexit.
I voted to remain, i've accepted the result, why cant you?

What you mean by accept the result?

Should we just accept the result of the most recent general election and abandon our democracy?

Yes, if the party you voted for is defeated in an election then you accept the result, thats how democracy works, are you morphing into Fuhrer Sturgeon?

[super_realist]

I've just noticed realist edited something in about the energy prices. I get they are set globally or whatever. But, if the claim was brexit will bring down energy  prices,  then surely that just needs calling out as a lie?

Make your mind up, you claim that Brexit would make energy cheaper, thwn on tje other hand you say energy is going up.

Energy prices, gas supply, gas wholesale markets, gas storage etc has nothing to do with Brexit because all of Europe is facing the same shortages in gas and every single issue we are having.
France however is mostly nuclear.

By the way, France have no leg to stand on in regard to their submarine contract. They were three YEARS behind schedule.

[beninho]

I've just noticed realist edited something in about the energy prices. I get they are set globally or whatever. But, if the claim was brexit will bring down energy  prices,  then surely that just needs calling out as a lie?

Make your mind up, you claim that Brexit would make energy cheaper, thwn on tje other hand you say energy is going up.

Energy prices, gas supply, gas wholesale markets, gas storage etc has nothing to do with Brexit because  all of Europe is facing the same shortages in gas and every single issue we are having.
France however is mostly nuclear.

By the way, France have no leg to stand on in regard to their submarine contract. They were three YEARS behind schedule.

I've never claimed brexit woukd make energy prices cheaper. But vote leave did say that after brexit they would be cheaper. I've not said it's anything to do with brexit. So people just invent arguments on here?

[beninho]

I remember the days we were told brexit woukd mean cheaper energy bills.

When? You sound like a BBC "comedy" panelist lile Nish Kumar.
Why are you still going on about Brexit?  Why not get over it and crack on?

Energy prices are dictated by the global market, not Brexit.
I voted to remain, i've accepted the result, why cant you?

What you mean by accept the result?

Should we just accept the result of the most recent general election and abandon our democracy?

Yes, if the party you voted for is defeated in an election then you accept the result, thats how democracy works, are you morphing into Fuhrer Sturgeon?

I'm pretty sure I've heard you criticise the Scottish government?

[beninho]

So, does anyone know why our energy is so much more then European countries on day ahead prices?

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