Re: Dragons Season Thread 21/22

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

James Benjamin has been turned into a hooker! We do have too many back rowers so this might be good for him from a personal point of view in terms of getting game time, but will be interesting to see if he's able to become a top level player in that position.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19540310.james-benjamin-moves-flanker-hooker-dragons/

[RiscaGame]

Dean obviously went off Babos, for whatever reason. He was quite involved and then surprisingly went off to Coventry which didn’t really make a lot of sense to then give Jones a “trial”. I’m not convinced by him really, but then I did notice myself we appear to have nobody coming through at 9 and Babos clearly isn’t going to be around much longer.

Luke Crane is at Newport and is doing ok at that level, but with no professional experience, I guess he’s not an option. Bring back Jon Evans from Ebbw

[mikey_dragon]

Was about to ask if Jonny Evans is still playing.

[Guest]

That lad Dupont could do a shift if needed, as back up to Rhodri and Gonzalo of course Get Ryan on the blower to Toulouse.

[LordDowlais]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61481475

This is ridiculous.

Is he one of the journey men you were talking about on the other thread ?

What’s your definition of ‘journeyman’, LD? Any player who is not a one-club player?

I really don't know the definition, that's why I'm asking the question.

[LordDowlais]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61481475

This is ridiculous.

Is he one of the journey men you were talking about on the other thread ?

If this is another one of your cheap jibes against the Dragons LD, then it's not a very good one. You oughta go back to said thread and perhaps check on who was actually talking about journey men.

Typical.

[LordDowlais]

Dean obviously went off Babos, for whatever reason. He was quite involved and then surprisingly went off to Coventry which didn’t really make a lot of sense to then give Jones a “trial”. I’m not convinced by him really, but then I did notice myself we appear to have nobody coming through at 9 and Babos clearly isn’t going to be around much longer.

Luke Crane is at Newport and is doing ok at that level, but with no professional experience, I guess he’s not an option. Bring back Jon Evans from Ebbw

When ever I have seen Babos, I thought he was a player with massive potential, be a shame to see another player get lost to obscurity.

[No 7&1/2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61481475

This is ridiculous.

Is he one of the journey men you were talking about on the other thread ?

What’s your definition of ‘journeyman’, LD? Any player who is not a one-club player?

I really don't know the definition, that's why I'm asking the question.

2 generally accepted definitions, the American one is that a journeyman is someone never going to be an elite player, decent not much more. The UK one was that it was someone with a host of clubs. These days they have become more interchangeable though.

[Guest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61481475

This is ridiculous.

Is he one of the journey men you were talking about on the other thread ?

What’s your definition of ‘journeyman’, LD? Any player who is not a one-club player?

I really don't know the definition, that's why I'm asking the question.

You didn’t ask for the definition, you asked if this player was one of them!

[RiscaGame]

Dean obviously went off Babos, for whatever reason. He was quite involved and then surprisingly went off to Coventry which didn’t really make a lot of sense to then give Jones a “trial”. I’m not convinced by him really, but then I did notice myself we appear to have nobody coming through at 9 and Babos clearly isn’t going to be around much longer.

Luke Crane is at Newport and is doing ok at that level, but with no professional experience, I guess he’s not an option. Bring back Jon Evans from Ebbw

When ever I have seen Babos, I thought he was a player with massive potential, be a shame to see another player get lost to obscurity.

Bit like that other U20s 9 we had (Buckland?), I think we wanted to bulk them up. I don’t think it has helped Babos particularly.

[mikey_dragon]

You didn’t ask for the definition, you asked I’m this player was one of them!

Come on now, you should know better than to call it out...

[Guest]

Dean obviously went off Babos, for whatever reason. He was quite involved and then surprisingly went off to Coventry which didn’t really make a lot of sense to then give Jones a “trial”. I’m not convinced by him really, but then I did notice myself we appear to have nobody coming through at 9 and Babos clearly isn’t going to be around much longer.

Luke Crane is at Newport and is doing ok at that level, but with no professional experience, I guess he’s not an option. Bring back Jon Evans from Ebbw

When ever I have seen Babos, I thought he was a player with massive potential, be a shame to see another player get lost to obscurity.

And this is exactly what will happen if we get rid of a region and focus on 3.  Probably 40 players will be lost to obscurity.

Maybe I should post this on the Welsh regions thread, but this (above) is one of my issues with cutting a region.  We would wipe out a huge number of fringe players that some people would consider journeymen, or not international standard, or 'not quite pro' or whatever subjective measure they want to use to describe them.  For me, cutting a region because we don't have enough pros is just a massive cover up of our inability to produce players.  I reckon in any other top rugby nation, if they weren't producing the talent then there would be some sort of review and the people in charge of age grade and academies would get the sack or get a rocket up them and told we need to do more to produce more.  New structures would be put in place.  New coaches would be brought in, perhaps some money chucked at it, and the conveyor belt might splutter into life and get some more talent coming through.  Not in Wales!  Someone somewhere does a calculation and decides "Hmm, Wales can only produce 90 pro players and therefore we need to close down a region'.  The amount of pro players a nation can produce is not set in stone!  It is not finite.  You can't just decide on 90 (or whatever it is for 3 regions).  If the structural issues that produces low numbers of pros is not addressed then when we go to 3 teams we'll still have the same issues.  And sooner or later we won't have enough for 3 teams.

So rather than shutting a team due to our failings as a nation to produce, we need to be looking at why we haven't got enough for 4 and putting solutions in place to increase the output.

[PhilBB]

Maybe I should post this on the Welsh regions thread, but this (above) is one of my issues with cutting a region.  We would wipe out a huge number of fringe players that some people would consider journeymen, or not international standard, or 'not quite pro' or whatever subjective measure they want to use to describe them.  For me, cutting a region because we don't have enough pros is just a massive cover up of our inability to produce players.  I reckon in any other top rugby nation, if they weren't producing the talent then there would be some sort of review and the people in charge of age grade and academies would get the sack or get a rocket up them and told we need to do more to produce more.  New structures would be put in place.  New coaches would be brought in, perhaps some money chucked at it, and the conveyor belt might splutter into life and get some more talent coming through.  Not in Wales!  Someone somewhere does a calculation and decides "Hmm, Wales can only produce 90 pro players and therefore we need to close down a region'.  The amount of pro players a nation can produce is not set in stone!  It is not finite.  You can't just decide on 90 (or whatever it is for 3 regions).  If the structural issues that produces low numbers of pros is not addressed then when we go to 3 teams we'll still have the same issues.  And sooner or later we won't have enough for 3 teams.

So rather than shutting a team due to our failings as a nation to produce, we need to be looking at why we haven't got enough for 4 and putting solutions in place to increase the output.

The Irish have recently gone through something similar because of their huge over reliance on a few fee paying schools in and around Dublin.

However, it could easily be argued that Wales does have already sufficient talent for four pro teams but insufficient money to finance said talent. There's a fair bit playing outside of Wales and that within Wales isn't given the best possible environment in which to improve - coaching, facilities etc.

At present, it's clear there's insufficient talent within Wales to support four professional clubs and it's clear there's insufficient money to improve things (if you believe the WRU). There is a logical argument that moving to three teams will immediately(ish) solve both problems but, as you point out, it doesn't address the core issues.

That's why the present WRU Executive are keen to cut as addressing those issues will lead to direct blame on the man who has held the purse strings since 2007.

[Guest]

Maybe I should post this on the Welsh regions thread, but this (above) is one of my issues with cutting a region.  We would wipe out a huge number of fringe players that some people would consider journeymen, or not international standard, or 'not quite pro' or whatever subjective measure they want to use to describe them.  For me, cutting a region because we don't have enough pros is just a massive cover up of our inability to produce players.  I reckon in any other top rugby nation, if they weren't producing the talent then there would be some sort of review and the people in charge of age grade and academies would get the sack or get a rocket up them and told we need to do more to produce more.  New structures would be put in place.  New coaches would be brought in, perhaps some money chucked at it, and the conveyor belt might splutter into life and get some more talent coming through.  Not in Wales!  Someone somewhere does a calculation and decides "Hmm, Wales can only produce 90 pro players and therefore we need to close down a region'.  The amount of pro players a nation can produce is not set in stone!  It is not finite.  You can't just decide on 90 (or whatever it is for 3 regions).  If the structural issues that produces low numbers of pros is not addressed then when we go to 3 teams we'll still have the same issues.  And sooner or later we won't have enough for 3 teams.

So rather than shutting a team due to our failings as a nation to produce, we need to be looking at why we haven't got enough for 4 and putting solutions in place to increase the output.

The Irish have recently gone through something similar because of their huge over reliance on a few fee paying schools in and around Dublin.

However, it could easily be argued that Wales does have already sufficient talent for four pro teams but insufficient money to finance said talent. There's a fair bit playing outside of Wales and that within Wales isn't given the best possible environment in which to improve - coaching, facilities etc.

At present, it's clear there's insufficient talent within Wales to support four professional clubs and it's clear there's insufficient money to improve things (if you believe the WRU). There is a logical argument that moving to three teams will immediately(ish) solve both problems but, as you point out, it doesn't address the core issues.

That's why the present WRU Executive are keen to cut as addressing those issues will lead to direct blame on the man who has held the purse strings since 2007.

Very true. I agree that cutting to 3 now in the short term will save face for the WRU in some ways. I'm not confident that cutting a side will lead to more resources such as coaching, facilities, etc. being condensed into the remaining 3 though!

[LordDowlais]

You didn’t ask for the definition, you asked I’m this player was one of them!

Come on now, you should know better than to call it out...

.

Come on boys.

I was just asking a genuine question. It wasnt me who was posting my disregard to the signing. I always seem to get the smelly end of the stick when it comes to you two. I was just asking if he was the type of player you were all complaining about on the other thread.

[PhilBB]

Very true.  I agree that cutting to 3 now in the short term will save face for the WRU in some ways.  I'm not confident that cutting a side will lead to more resources such as coaching, facilities, etc. being condensed into the remaining 3 though!

This is true. The Oakwell Report was all about eliminating the gap between spending and forecasted income. It omitted the potential income boost from the new World Rugby tournament and it suggested nothing for the WRU to do cut costs, nor how the WRU should increase its own income.

It was a pure slash and burn exercise, which tells you everything you need to know about the mentality of the WRU Executive. At this point, it's worth remembering that one of Steve Phillips' first appointments was to promote the in house Solicitor to "Head of Commercial" as lawyers are famed for their sales work.

It's also worth remembering that Project Reject Reset and the subsequent PRA prevent benefactor spending through debt. Genius, eh?

[Guest]

You didn’t ask for the definition, you asked I’m this player was one of them!

Come on now, you should know better than to call it out...

.

Come on boys.

I was just asking a genuine question. It wasnt me who was posting my disregard to the signing. I always seem to get the smelly end of the stick when it comes to you two. I was just asking if he was the type of player you were all complaining about on the other thread.  

I wasn’t complaining about them! So no, Lewis Jones is not a journeyman in my book

[LordDowlais]

nor how the WRU should increase its own income.

Perhaps that new hotel they built is for that very purpose. Just saying.

[LordDowlais]

You didn’t ask for the definition, you asked I’m this player was one of them!

Come on now, you should know better than to call it out...

.

Come on boys.

I was just asking a genuine question. It wasnt me who was posting my disregard to the signing. I always seem to get the smelly end of the stick when it comes to you two. I was just asking if he was the type of player you were all complaining about on the other thread.  

I wasn’t complaining about them! So no, Lewis Jones is not a journeyman in my book

[PhilBB]

nor how the WRU should increase its own income.

Perhaps that new hotel they built is for that very purpose. Just saying.

If that's so, the WRU are still forecasting a fall in their own income. The hotel is now operational, of course, yet the WRU still forecasts a drop in its payments to the clubs of FY23 £23.5m to FY24 £19.2m to FY25 £15.1m

Remember, the hotel is lumbered with a £1.8m per annum finance lease cost that is to be paid regardless of whether the venture is profitable or not. Also, the Celtic Manor take their operating fee whether the venture is profitable or not.

That hotel must be making a minimum of £50k a week in profit in order to have anything to re-invest into Welsh rugby and the WRU's own forecast (as Oakwell present it) suggests they are not confident it will do that.

[LordDowlais]

nor how the WRU should increase its own income.

Perhaps that new hotel they built is for that very purpose. Just saying.

If that's so, the WRU are still forecasting a fall in their own income. The hotel is now operational, of course, yet the WRU still forecasts a drop in its payments to the clubs of FY23 £23.5m to FY24 £19.2m to FY25 £15.1m

Remember, the hotel is lumbered with a £1.8m per annum finance lease cost that is to be paid regardless of whether the venture is profitable or not. Also, the Celtic Manor take their operating fee whether the venture is profitable or not.

That hotel must be making a minimum of £50k a week in profit in order to have anything to re-invest into Welsh rugby and the WRU's own forecast (as Oakwell present it) suggests they are not confident it will do that.

Just for the record, I do not agree with what they have done, building a hotel. I was just responding to you saying how would the WRU plan to increase it's own income, and this hotel is an answer, whether it is a viable one or not, they can still point to this hotel and say this is where we are going to try and increase our income.

Thats all.

[mikey_dragon]

Rob Evs https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61480444

[mikey_dragon]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

[PhilBB]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

[mikey_dragon]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

He wants out does he? Meh, almost forgot about James Benjamin and I wish you hadn't reminded me. Ellis Shipp would be ahead of him.

[mikey_dragon]

Just wondering as we’ve brought in Rhodri Jones, are we going to continue with the TH experiment? Or will the two out of contract be shown the door? I probably wouldn’t have signed Josh Reynolds as he’s too small, but it’s done now. I would let Bateman go but keep Seiulli. I’d still prefer we kept Joe M too but no noise on any of this.

[Guest]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

Ooh, you tease! Haven’t heard this. Where does he want out to? Any links to this gossip?!

[mikey_dragon]

It’s probably Cardiff he wants out to. I have to admit, whilst Dacey is a big hooker his regression has been quite miraculous. Either way, I can’t think of a team where Dee would be first choice if that’s what he is worried about.

[RiscaGame]

It has been rumoured, that Dee was heavily involved in a bit of a player uprising about Dean Ryan’s management style and tactics etc.

[PhilBB]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

Ooh, you tease! Haven’t heard this. Where does he want out to? Any links to this gossip?!

He wants to move to Cardiff but he has a year left on his contract - so much can change. He's not pals with Ryan.

[PhilBB]

It’s probably Cardiff he wants out to. I have to admit, whilst Dacey is a big hooker his regression has been quite miraculous. Either way, I can’t think of a team where Dee would be first choice if that’s what he is worried about.

Dacey is many things but 'big' isn't one of them. He's the same size as Dee, so both are too small.

And the 'regression' has come from a long standing back injury, so hardly miraculous.

[PhilBB]

It has been rumoured, that Dee was heavily involved in a bit of a player uprising about Dean Ryan’s management style and tactics etc.

Yes

[PhilBB]

Just wondering as we’ve brought in Rhodri Jones, are we going to continue with the TH experiment? Or will the two out of contract be shown the door? I probably wouldn’t have signed Josh Reynolds as he’s too small, but it’s done now. I would let Bateman go but keep Seiulli. I’d still prefer we kept Joe M too but no noise on any of this.

Rhodri Jones has started an Ospreys game at tight head in the last 5 seasons. His last appearance off the bench as the tight head prop was 29th September, 2017

[Guest]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

Ooh, you tease! Haven’t heard this. Where does he want out to? Any links to this gossip?!

He wants to move to Cardiff but he has a year left on his contract - so much can change. He's not pals with Ryan.

Good luck to him, and I mean that genuinely. I've always been a big fan but no point keeping someone who is unhappy and wants out. But I'm not sure a move to Cardiff is exactly paved in gold, going on previous Dragons player moves. Amos, Cory Hill, Screech, Tovey..... have any of them improved their stock with a move West? Don't think any of them were ever first choice there. Not sure Dee is consistent enough to be their first choice Hooker. Although with Dacey, Belcher and Myhill there perhaps he feels he has a chance to be no.1.

[mikey_dragon]

It’s probably Cardiff he wants out to. I have to admit, whilst Dacey is a big hooker his regression has been quite miraculous. Either way, I can’t think of a team where Dee would be first choice if that’s what he is worried about.

Dacey is many things but 'big' isn't one of them. He's the same size as Dee, so both are too small.

And the 'regression' has come from a long standing back injury, so hardly miraculous.

Dacey is tall, and unless he has lost weight then he was a big hooker. A lot of hooker's are among smaller front-row players ike you allude to, unless it's Malcolm Marx.

I know he spent quite some time away injured, I wasn't sure what it was exactly or how severe.

[mikey_dragon]

Just wondering as we’ve brought in Rhodri Jones, are we going to continue with the TH experiment? Or will the two out of contract be shown the door? I probably wouldn’t have signed Josh Reynolds as he’s too small, but it’s done now. I would let Bateman go but keep Seiulli. I’d still prefer we kept Joe M too but no noise on any of this.

Rhodri Jones has started an Ospreys game at tight head in the last 5 seasons. His last appearance off the bench as the tight head prop was 29th September, 2017

Has or hasn't? And yeah, that is my question. Wouldn't you ask if there is set to be 5 LH's?

[PhilBB]

It’s probably Cardiff he wants out to. I have to admit, whilst Dacey is a big hooker his regression has been quite miraculous. Either way, I can’t think of a team where Dee would be first choice if that’s what he is worried about.

Dacey is many things but 'big' isn't one of them. He's the same size as Dee, so both are too small.

And the 'regression' has come from a long standing back injury, so hardly miraculous.

Dacey is tall, and unless he has lost weight then he was a big hooker. A lot of hooker's are among smaller front-row players ike you allude to, unless it's Malcolm Marx.

I know he spent quite some time away injured, I wasn't sure what it was exactly or how severe.

Dacey is two centimetres taller than Dee. He's not tall. He's a converted back row player whose scrummaging has always been a negative because of his lack of bulk

[PhilBB]

Just wondering as we’ve brought in Rhodri Jones, are we going to continue with the TH experiment? Or will the two out of contract be shown the door? I probably wouldn’t have signed Josh Reynolds as he’s too small, but it’s done now. I would let Bateman go but keep Seiulli. I’d still prefer we kept Joe M too but no noise on any of this.

Rhodri Jones has started an Ospreys game at tight head in the last 5 seasons. His last appearance off the bench as the tight head prop was 29th September, 2017

Has or hasn't? And yeah, that is my question. Wouldn't you ask if there is set to be 5 LH's?

Apologies - hasn't started a game at tight head for the Ospreys in the last 5 seasons.

I'm just putting 16/17 into our database so that season isn't finished, but there was a start at tight head against Munster in May 2017.

He hasn't played a lot of rugby https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/6002.php?playerID=702

[PhilBB]

Good luck to him, and I mean that genuinely.  I've always been a big fan but no point keeping someone who is unhappy and wants out.  But I'm not sure a move to Cardiff is exactly paved in gold, going on previous Dragons player moves.  Amos, Cory Hill, Screech, Tovey..... have any of them improved their stock with a move West?  Don't think any of them were ever first choice there.  Not sure Dee is consistent enough to be their first choice Hooker.  Although with Dacey, Belcher and Myhill there perhaps he feels he has a chance to be no.1.

Hill's return was seeing him as first choice 5 until he forgot which house was his.

[mikey_dragon]

Taylor Davies returning to Scarlets. We have two decent hookers, he would have been another good option to have.

Going into the season with Dee wanting out and James Benjamin as third choice is going to be tricky.

Ooh, you tease! Haven’t heard this. Where does he want out to? Any links to this gossip?!

He wants to move to Cardiff but he has a year left on his contract - so much can change. He's not pals with Ryan.

Good luck to him, and I mean that genuinely.  I've always been a big fan but no point keeping someone who is unhappy and wants out.  But I'm not sure a move to Cardiff is exactly paved in gold, going on previous Dragons player moves.  Amos, Cory Hill, Screech, Tovey..... have any of them improved their stock with a move West?  Don't think any of them were ever first choice there.  Not sure Dee is consistent enough to be their first choice Hooker.  Although with Dacey, Belcher and Myhill there perhaps he feels he has a chance to be no.1.

Dee has been inconistent for some time now, perhaps he just doesn't enjoy playing here any more. If he's not commited then he should be let go, for a price of course .

Belcher is too small but his throwing seems very accurate. Myhill I always thought was a decent player, but he never broke through like I expected he would. Dacey doens't look good at all lately. Dee could be choice 2 at least.

[mikey_dragon]

Just wondering as we’ve brought in Rhodri Jones, are we going to continue with the TH experiment? Or will the two out of contract be shown the door? I probably wouldn’t have signed Josh Reynolds as he’s too small, but it’s done now. I would let Bateman go but keep Seiulli. I’d still prefer we kept Joe M too but no noise on any of this.

Rhodri Jones has started an Ospreys game at tight head in the last 5 seasons. His last appearance off the bench as the tight head prop was 29th September, 2017

Has or hasn't? And yeah, that is my question. Wouldn't you ask if there is set to be 5 LH's?

Apologies - hasn't started a game at tight head for the Ospreys in the last 5 seasons.

I'm just putting 16/17 into our database so that season isn't finished, but there was a start at tight head against Munster in May 2017.

He hasn't played a lot of rugby https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/6002.php?playerID=702

Yeah, slightly tongue in cheek as we all know the TH experiment didn't work. If Dean has that in mind then I don't know what to say. Rhodri Jones isn't a signing I was enamoured with, the lack of rugby being one of the reasons.

[mikey_dragon]

It’s probably Cardiff he wants out to. I have to admit, whilst Dacey is a big hooker his regression has been quite miraculous. Either way, I can’t think of a team where Dee would be first choice if that’s what he is worried about.

Dacey is many things but 'big' isn't one of them. He's the same size as Dee, so both are too small.

And the 'regression' has come from a long standing back injury, so hardly miraculous.

Dacey is tall, and unless he has lost weight then he was a big hooker. A lot of hooker's are among smaller front-row players ike you allude to, unless it's Malcolm Marx.

I know he spent quite some time away injured, I wasn't sure what it was exactly or how severe.

Dacey is two centimetres taller than Dee. He's not tall. He's a converted back row player whose scrummaging has always been a negative because of his lack of bulk

How tall (or small) are you Phil? I thought 5'10 was UK average, if you're 6'2 then you're tall. I'm 2 inches shorter than Dacey. Every single (male) cousin I have happens to be taller than me.  

FYI, the best teams in the world are starting hookers who are the same size as Dee . Unless it's Marx, I can't think of a massive hooker?

[mikey_dragon]

Doge is leaving at the end of this season and joining Fijian Drua. Source is a good one. Also heard a bit about the Players vs Ryan thing, but not a lot was said.

Not sure if we'll bring anyone in. Perhaps Ryan wants to shift Bateman back to TH and compete with Lloyd Fairbrother. Lloyd is covering at LH this weekend, strange.

[RiscaGame]

Bateman is going. I assume our props will be Evans, Jones, Reynolds and Brown, Fairbrother and Coleman

[mikey_dragon]

Our other LH going then?

[RiscaGame]

It didn’t look like he was staying, but now the Argus has announced that they’re in talks with him and it’ll depend on how much money he expects.

Adam Warren definitely leaving. Gutted by that. To take a punt on getting Allen fit and then to continue that gamble seems such a waste.

[RiscaGame]

From the Argus: “However, discussions are still taking place with loosehead Aki Seiuli, lock/flanker Huw Taylor and wing Jared Rosser, as well as centre Cory Allen after a year on the sidelines.”

[Guest]

Here’s an article about the 20 players leaving us, from the Beeb:

“Centre Adam Warren is among 16 players set to be released by the Dragons at the end of the 2021-22 season.

Forwards Dan Baker, Greg Bateman, Mesake Doge, Harry Fry, Joe Maksymiw and Max Williams also leave the region.

Half-backs Dan Babos, Evan Lloyd and Josh Lewis, centre Tom Griffiths, wings Jonah Holmes and Owen Jenkins and full-back Will Talbot-Davies complete the list of contracted players leaving.

Hooker Taylor Davies and full-back Jordan Olowofela depart after loans.

The 16 departing players join Richard Hibbard, Aaron Jarvis, Tavis Knoyle and Jamie Roberts who all left Rodney Parade earlier in the campaign.“

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61527424

That’s a big number going. The article talks about 9 players incoming. Plus we’re reducing squad size.

I’m mostly unhappy about Doge as I like him. And Holmes as he is good but don’t blame him for wanting to try something else. Warren was solid and would be happy if he’d stayed, but Sio Tompkison coming in should be some upgrade. Somewhat surprised and disappointed about Max Williams as I thought he would be the next big thing a few seasons back. Joe Maksymiw barely fired a shot so although I could see his potential he didn’t really show much. Perhaps not given much of a shot? Taylor Davies I thought was decent at hooker. Wouldn’t have minded him staying. Greg Bateman never really showed himself. The rest are pretty meh for me so not bothered that they’re cleared out.

[Guest]

One of the problems is that international selection is so unpredictable, to a certain extent. A few years back we might get zero call ups. Or perhaps one or two. This season in an extended Wales squad we could lose our whole 1st choice pack (Dee, Brown, Carter, Rowlands, Moriarty, Wainwright, Basham). Only Doge was not able to be called up for Wales, but was of course an international himself. So having a squad to cover that, but also not be too oversized if they don’t get selected, is tricky and difficult to put a number on. One of the perils of only having 4 sides and insisting that the internationals play at home. Going to 3 sides with a home based player policy for Wales still in place might mean you see around 12-15 players per team missing for a lot of the season (at least for the extended training camps anyway). Ouch! Not suggesting we get rid of the home-based policy, but it does have some knock on effects.

[mikey_dragon]

That’s a lot of players to lose. I don’t think we could have convinced Doge to stay, his heart was set on home. Maksymiw, Baker and obviously Holmes are players I would have liked us to keep. Why we’re keeping Huw Taylor I’m not sure.

[mikey_dragon]

One of the problems is that international selection is so unpredictable, to a certain extent. A few years back we might get zero call ups. Or perhaps one or two. This season in an extended Wales squad we could lose our whole 1st choice pack (Dee, Brown, Carter, Rowlands, Moriarty, Wainwright, Basham). Only Doge was not able to be called up for Wales, but was of course an international himself. So having a squad to cover that, but also not be too oversized if they don’t get selected, is tricky and difficult to put a number on. One of the perils of only having 4 sides and insisting that the internationals play at home. Going to 3 sides with a home based player policy for Wales still in place might mean you see around 12-15 players per team missing for a lot of the season (at least for the extended training camps anyway). Ouch! Not suggesting we get rid of the home-based policy, but it does have some knock on effects.

If Griffiths isn’t injured we can expect to lose him too. It’s why I wanted to get rid of a back-row player (only Wainwright and Moriarty sprang to mind for me), and with that in mind keeping someone like Dan Baker makes all the more sense.

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