Premiership Round 8

Friday 19:45
Leicester Tigers vs Bath

Saturday
Bristol vs Worcester Warriors (15:00)
Saracens vs London Irish (15:00)
Sale vs Northampton Saints (17:00)
Exeter Chiefs vs Newcastle Falcons (17:30)

Sunday
Wasps vs Harlequins (16:30)

Lots of internationals obviously missing this week

Is it wrong to feel sorry for Bath already?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong to feel sorry for Bath already?

I think there are a bunch of games which, especially given the circumstances, are hard to call, but Friday night isn't one of them.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong to feel sorry for Bath already?

I really feel for Bath fans. The unavailability is ludicrous.

17.Cordwell (2 Prem bench apps for a combined 19 minutes, 1 PRC bench app, no senior starts)
18.Verden (3 bench apps in the Prem, 2 bench apps in the Challenge Cup, no senior starts)
19.Merigan (2 PRC starts, 1 bench app in the Challenge Cup, no Prem experience)
20.Cowan (potential senior debut I believe?)

If there is an early injury to Schoeman or Rae for instance then I know some Bath fans have genuine safety concerns about scrums.

One thing I'd say for Bath fans as a shimmer of light:

Tiger side vs Bath - August 2020 wrote:Leicester Tigers: Henry; Potter, Worth, Porter, Simmons; McPhillips, White (capt); Leatigaga, Kerr, Heyes, Lavanini, Enever, Martin, Wallace, Smith.

Replacements: Clare, Bower, Cole, Henderson, Coghlan, Van Poortvliet, Hardwick, Steward.

That's the Tigers side from our pummeling against Bath just over a year ago when Matevesi threw that pantomime villain style dummy then strolled through a gap in the defence that felt wider than the pitch itself.

Only 10 of those players are currently with Tigers when you factor Smith and Simmons being on loan. Tigers are completely different squad being coached in a completely different manner playing completely different rugby. Things can change quickly in sport.

Leicester

15 Freddie Burns, 14 Guy Porter, 13 Matt Scott, 12 Dan Kelly, 11 Nemani Nadolo, 10 George Ford (c), 9 Jack van Poortvliet; 1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Nic Dolly, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Harry Wells, 5 Calum Green, 6 Ollie Chessum, 7 Tommy Reffell, 8 Cyle Brink

REPLACEMENTS
16 Tom Cowan-Dickie, 17 Nephi Leatigaga, 18 Joe Heyes, 19 Eli Snyman, 20 George Martin, 21 Richard Wigglesworth, 22 Bryce Hegarty, 23 Kini Murimurivalu

Bath
15 Orlando Bailey, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Clark, 11 Will Muir, 10 Danny Cipriani, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 D’Arcy Rae, 4 Josh McNally (c), 5 Ewan Richards, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Richard de Carpentier, 8 Miles Reid

Replacements: 16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Arthur Cordwell, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Nahum Merigan, 20 Tom Cowan, 21 Max Green, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Ruaridh McConnochie

On paper that looks like a grim evening under the lights for Bath and quite frankly I hope it is. However, this is a huge potential banana skin. Bath will be playing without pressure and in large parts with something to prove and that can on some occasions be a potent combination.

Really good to see Cyle Brink back after a lengthy lay off at 8. He's had no luck with injuries but is another powerful backrower.l

formerly known as Sam wrote:On paper that looks like a grim evening under the lights for Bath and quite frankly I hope it is. However, this is a huge potential banana skin. Bath will be playing without pressure and in large parts with something to prove and that can on some occasions be a potent combination.

Really good to see Cyle Brink back after a lengthy lay off at 8. He's had no luck with injuries but is another powerful backrower.l

Thinking about the U20's there are some good young Bath players on show, but you would expect them to be too green. Ewan Richards played very well for England U20 at 6, Merigan looked like a big bruising 8 (although he did seem a card magnet). Orlando Bailey is very good.

Bath showed a lot more grit and heart against Quins a couple of weeks ago. As Sam say's they coulg be a banana skin for Tigers if they go into the game too relaxed.

Four years ago this weekend (roughly) Tigers sent a young team full of development players and third choice options to play a more experienced Bath team in the cup. Tigers dominated the first half against a shell shocked Bath team who only just managed to rescue the game via an arm wrestle second half.

Very easy to get caught cold in these type of games. It'll be up to Borthwick and the senior players to ensure that the mental preparation is done and they come out firing. In fact I think mental prep is the most important thing in a game like this for Tigers because those Bath youngters have everything to prove and nothing to lose. They'll be going all out, no lack of confidence or playing in their shells I'd guess. Play a starring role in a surprise result here and you'll be a fan favourite over night, more chances and new contract could easily follow. Obviously I hope no such thing, I hope it's a record victory for Tigers in front of a bouncing Welford Road.

For those interested the teams from a few years ago. https://mobile.twitter.com/LeicesterTigers/status/929067153499795456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E929067153499795456%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.leicestertigers.com%2Fmatch%2Fpremiership-rugby-cup%2Fbat-vs-lei%2F2017-11-10

We need to up our game by at least 50% , or rather down our penalty count by 50% to have a decent chance at the AJ Bell.

You cannot win against quality sides if every time you get a good position you give away a penalty and you end up back in your 22.

We have the players to beat anybody on our day, but we need to stop being stupid, play the referee and stay down the other end for more than two or three phases before we get kicked back into our 22.

Falcons for Exeter:

15 Mike Brown,
14 Nathan Earle,
13 George Wacokecoke,
12 Pete Lucock,
11 Ben Stevenson,
10 Joel Hodgson,
9 Louis Schreuder;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 George McGuigan,
3 Richard Palframan,
4 Greg Peterson,
5 Will Montgomery,
6 Philip van der Walt,
7 Will Welch (captain),
8 Carl Fearns.

Replacements: 16 Robbie Smith, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Logovi’i Mulipola, 19 Gary Graham, 20 Callum Chick, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Brett Connon, 23 Tom Penny.


Exeter Chiefs:
15 Joe Simmonds,
14 Jack Nowell,
13 Tom Hendrickson,
12 Ollie Devoto,
11 Josh Hodge,
10 Harvey Skinner,
9 Jack Maunder;

1 Alec Hepburn,
2 Jack Yeandle,
3 Harry Williams,
4 Will Witty,
5 Sean Lonsdale,
6 Jannes Kirsten,
7 Don Armand,
8 Richard Capstick.

Wasps v Quins

WASPS: 15. Ali Crossdale, 14. Zach Kibirige, 13. Alex McHenry, 12. Michael Le Bourgeois, 11. Josh Bassett; 10. Jacob Umaga, 9. Will Porter; 1. Robin Hislop, 2. Gabriel Oghre, 3. Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, 4. Vaea Fifita, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Brad Shields, 7. Nizaam Carr, 8. Tom Willis.

Replacements: 16. Michael van Vuuren, 17. Zac Nearchou, 18. Elliot Millar-Mills, 19. Tim Cardall, 20. Thomas Young, 21. Francois Hougaard, 22. Tommy Mathews, 23. Marcus Watson

QUINS: 15. Tyrone Green; 14. Nick David, 13. Luke Northmore, 12. Andre Esterhuizen, 11. Cadan Murley; 10. Will Edwards, 9. Danny Care (c); Santiago Garcia Botta, 2. Jack Walker, 3. Will Collier, 4. Matt Symons, 5. Dino Lamb, 6. James Chisholm, 7. Jack Kenningham, 8. Tom Lawday

Replacements: 16. Jack Musk, 17. Simon Kerrod, 18. Wilco Louw, 19. Hugh Tizard, 20. Stephan Lewies, 21. Scott Steele, 22. Lennox Anyanwu, 23. Oscar Beard

You could make a quality side out of Wasps unavailable players! Never known anything like this….

Wasps' 18 unavailable players

Unavailable (18): Charlie Atkinson, Tom Cruse, Malakai Fekitoa, James Gaskell, Jimmy Gopperth, Ben Harris, Joe Launchbury, Rob Miller, Ryan Mills, Matteo Minozzi, Ben Morris, Paolo Odogwu, Dan Robson, Will Simonds, Sam Spink, Theo Vukasinovic, Tom West, Jack Willis.

Bristol - Worcs

Bristol: Piutau; Morahan, O'Conour, Leiua, Fricker; Sheedy, Uren; Woolmore, Thacker, Lahiff, Attwood, Joyce, Jeffries, Heenan (capt), Harding.

Replacements: Kerr, Y Thomas, Armstrong, Hawkins, D Thomas, Whiteley, Lloyd, Bates.

Worcester: Shillcock; Humphreys, Lawrence, Venter, Heward; Smith, Chudley; Waller, Baldwin, Judge, Garvey, Kitchener, Hatherell, Hill (capt), Kvesic.

Replacements: Annett, M Thomas, Tyack, Clegg, Lewis, Simpson, Searle, Beck.

Saracens - LI. Earl doing his best Simmonds impression.

Saracens: Obatoyinbo; Lewington, Lozowski, Taylor, Segun; Goode (co-capt), van Zyl; Vunipola, Woolstencroft, Clarey, Isiekwe, Swinson, Christie, Wray (co-capt), Earl.

Replacements: Lewis, Barrington, Wainwright, McFarland, Reffell, Davies, Morris, Maitland.

London Irish: Parton; Rowe, Hepetema, van Rensburg, Hassell-Collins; Jackson, Phipps; Goodrick-Clarke, Creevy, van der Merwe, Coleman, Simmons, Nott, Pearson, Rogerson (capt).

Replacements: Willemse, Dell, Hoskins, Mafi, Curtis-Harris, White, Jennings, Williams.

Sale - Saints

Sale: Hammersley, McGuigan, S. James, JV Rensburg, Yarde, MacGinty, Warr, Rodd, Van Der Merwe, Oosthuizen, JL. Du Preez, JP. Du Preez, Ross (c), B. Curry, D. Du Preez.

Replacements: Langdon, McIntyre, Jones, Postlethwaite, Dugdale, Thomas, R. Du Preez, L. James.

Northampton: Freeman, Skosan, Dingwall, Hutchinson, Collins, Grayson, James, Waller, Fish, Hill, Ribbans, Moon, Wilkins, Ludlam (c), Augustus.

Replacements: Haywood, Iyogun, Painter, Nansen, Coles, Harrison, Tupai Francis.

Have to say, even with a few favourable decisions, Bath still had 40 put on them

Oh and is it a knock on from the head?

A scrappy game from Tigers with plenty of errors. Still a TBP win though.

The maul did the damage even on a day the lineout wasn't functioning to its best. It is now a part of the Tigers game efficient enough that it can win us games whilst playing poorly elsewhere.

I thought that a few players looked a bit knackered after clocking a lot of minutes over the opening 8 rounds on the bounce. Cole and Wells in particular were quieter than usual. Porter had a very scrappy game returning from injury. JvP struggled in defence.

Reffell and Chessum on the other hand were excellent. I thought the bench impact was terrific too.

The PRC and rest week have come at a good time for Tigers. 8 wins from 8, two weeks of PRC to get minutes into squad players that haven't played much, a fallow week, then back into it with Quins and the Champions Cup.

Agree with all that Carlos. We did look tired and a bit lethargic. Certainly missed Potter and Steward at the back. Bath to their credit applied pressure well though I was always waiting for us to pull away. 

Kelly, Chessum and Reffell all played like far more experienced players. It's really good to see them apply pressure on selection. Kelly threw some nice passes alongside his normal effective defence and carrying. Chessum's physicality and work rate on both sides of the ball was impressive and Reffell is a nightmare for opposition attack coaches.

Ford again was a touch of class. A summer off has made the world of difference for him. 

Special mention for Bailey at the back for Bath. He played with a lot of composure for such a young man under plenty of pressure.

From the U20's Bailey just looked to have a bit more time on the ball than anyone else. I don't know if he will trouble the England selectors going forward but he might not be far off.

lostinwales wrote:From the U20's Bailey just looked to have a bit more time on the ball than anyone else. I don't know if he will trouble the England selectors going forward but he might not be far off.

I can't remember thinking more than he had potential when plonked in at 15 for the under 20s. This season he's looked good for Bath. The England selectors might have a few headaches at 10 in the coming years if Finn Smith and Bailey both kick on and reach the level their potential suggests.

Wow - you couldn't make this stuff up .... Irish with 14 men for most of the game come back from 34-8 down to draw it ...

Heaf wrote:Wow - you couldn't make this stuff up .... Irish with 14 men for most of the game come back from 34-8 down to draw it ...

Excellent. I'll be checking that game out tomorrow then. Who picked up the red?

Coleman - clumsy tackle on a shorter player head to head by the sounds of it ... only just back from injury and now a few more weeks off probably

Falcons win aswell....little beauties....

After yesterday Tigers are 10 points clear at the top albeit with Sarries and Quins having games in hand. 17 points clear of Chiefs in 4th who've played the same number of games. Worried I'm going to wake up.

I wonder why Exeter have gone off the boil so much

lostinwales wrote:I wonder why Exeter have gone off the boil so much

Missing players and playing a system everyone is more than aware of by now. I think last summer was a tough one for them losing Francis with no like for like replacement. Some of their go to players are getting on a bit as well, Armand and Whitten in particular.

Despite being off the boil they are still fourth, admittedly having not had their first bye week yet. They get their players back and they can easily solidify that playoff position. Quins were nowhere near contention in the first half of last season and then powered through into fourth post Christmas. I expect Baxter is looking at the long game.

lostinwales wrote:I wonder why Exeter have gone off the boil so much

They were playing a top team this weekend!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I wonder why Exeter have gone off the boil so much

Missing players and playing a system everyone is more than aware of by now. I think last summer was a tough one for them losing Francis with no like for like replacement. Some of their go to players are getting on a bit as well, Armand and Whitten in particular.

Despite being off the boil they are still fourth, admittedly having not had their first bye week yet. They get their players back and they can easily solidify that playoff position. Quins were nowhere near contention in the first half of last season and then powered through into fourth post Christmas. I expect Baxter is looking at the long game.

Missing the grunt of Ewers I suspect too - a guy like that in the back row allows Sam Simmonds more time to do his thing...

Watched the Wasps / Quins match on replay late last night with the breaks in play on fast forward. Not the prettiest game of rugby but glad I watched it and very glad I didn’t let anyone spoil it for me.

While recognising that Wasps have an injury crisis in the pack, they were still putting out a dangerous back line and I was impressed with the intensity of Quins’ defence and the fact that they only conceded one try.

It clearly took a while for them to find the right pattern of play with Edwards at 10 (and he definitely has some “it’s not 7s any more” work ons) - but another big comeback, another second half shut-out and another try bonus point away from home is a decent day’s work.

Exeter haven’t come to terms with the new latching and breakdown rules/ interpretations

Poorfour wrote:Watched the Wasps / Quins match on replay late last night with the breaks in play on fast forward. Not the prettiest game of rugby but glad I watched it and very glad I didn’t let anyone spoil it for me.

While recognising that Wasps have an injury crisis in the pack, they were still putting out a dangerous back line and I was impressed with the intensity of Quins’ defence and the fact that they only conceded one try.

It clearly took a while for them to find the right pattern of play with Edwards at 10 (and he definitely has some “it’s not 7s any more” work ons) - but another big comeback, another second half shut-out and another try bonus point away from home is a decent day’s work.

What's this Edwards guy like? He's gone completely under the radar for me but is not going to be our starting 10 while Smith is away I guess?

All I know about Edwards is that he is ex-England 7's up to the point when they axed the programme. (Wiki)
Joined the club last season but didnt make any senior appearances from what I can tell.

His first appearance off the bench against Sarries seemed a bit shakey, but second appearance and first starting last weekend was a MoM performance - with other squad members taking conversions etc.
Looks like a decent option and perhaps can only get better with a bit more gametime - still currently 3rd pick behind Smith and Allen though who currently have much more experience and game management skills.

So is he a genuine 10 then? I just always thought of 7's players as wingers but interesting if he is a fly half by trade. Great to hear he went well, I guess his 7's experience should hold him in pretty good stead when it's broken play at least.

Of that I cant be sure Yappy, I never saw him play a 7s game but you would assume he filled that playmaker/pivot role for England 7s.
He's had a good start and i would imagine Allen is out for another week or so - so lets see if he gets more time in the cup games.