Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

[Mind the windows Tino.]

First topic message reminder :

James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!

Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

[Duty281]

Starc is so like Mitchell Johnson. When's he off he's bloody dreadful, but when he's on there's few better.

Was very concerned about Stokes being brought back for this, and he's been really off the mark with the bat in this series.

[JDizzle]

Stokes does have the Jason Roy-esque thing where he looks absolutely terrible when out of nick. Not much middle ground!

[Soul Requiem]

In hindsight Ben Stokes going to Australia off the back of little red ball cricket this year was maybe not the greatest idea. His batting has been garbage.

[kingraf]

Big day for England. They're four down, but one of them was Leach, who is a nightwatchman. I've just got a feeling that with the pitch looking a little bit placid than it looked yesterday, when Mitchell Starc was basically bowling off cutters at 90 miles, there's a chance for someone on the English team to stand up and be counted. Be a good day for one of those English innings where everyone chips in and they get to 300.

Failing that, of course 3-0 down and the traditional post-Ashes retirements can start. I have Broad bowing out first. Then Buttler. Possibly Bairstow depending on how much he enjoys tour life.

[JDizzle]

Has Cameron Green just dropped the Ashes? No.

[JDizzle]

Double umpire’s call. Bairstow can consider himself a touch unlucky on that one. Another poor shot mind.

[kingraf]

An innings defeat is quite possibly on here.

[compelling and rich]

can you sack a whole batting line up?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

https://twitter.com/benjonescricket/status/1475623336751165442?s=21

Of all the impressive bad England batting stats, this might be the most ridiculous

[alfie]

Boland can do no wrong ! England can't take a trick on umpires call decisions but that's what happens when you're battling...

Joe Root in danger of being left alone at the crease here.

[Duty281]

Tough old shout for Bairstow. Boland now having a dream debut, 3/5 in this innings!

Buttler now batting for his test career.

[compelling and rich]

anyone got the stats for leading wicket takers? i can never find them had cummins and anderson as leading wicket takers as a double. anderson not playing first match and this batting performance really isnt helping me

[JDizzle]

It’s one thing being rolled over by Cummins and Starc or Jadeja and Axar on bunsens - but Scott Boland? Come on now.

[JDizzle]

anyone got the stats for leading wicket takers? i can never find them had cummins and anderson as leading wicket takers as a double. anderson not playing first match and this batting performance really isnt helping me

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=13979;type=series

[JDizzle]

It’s one thing being rolled over by Cummins and Starc or Jadeja and Axar on bunsens - but Scott Boland? Come on now.

4-5

[Duty281]

It’s one thing being rolled over by Cummins and Starc or Jadeja and Axar on bunsens - but Scott Boland? Come on now.

Still not as bad as the Roston Chase debacle!

[compelling and rich]

anyone got the stats for leading wicket takers? i can never find them had cummins and anderson as leading wicket takers as a double. anderson not playing first match and this batting performance really isnt helping me

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=13979;type=series

cheers jdizzle. wow didnt realize strac was so far ahead of cummins. without looking as ive done id have said cummins has been the best bowler so far. starc bowls some rubbish at times but hes got the number of a few of this english side. saying that all of the aussies bowlers do

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Losing by an innings when the opposition made 267 is a good one to add to the pantheon of England down under debacles.

I’ll never forgive them for not having a leg spinner I can be excited about be in the squad to play their one and only test in the 5th game.

[compelling and rich]

5-5

[alfie]

Root gone now...Boland having an unbelievable day. Good bowling ; but this collapse is - well not unexpected but still rather dispiriting.

This is actually reminding me of another MCG Test from a long time ago...

1958/9 . England batted first , struggled back from early collapse to make 250 (Thanks to Peter May : he'd be handy now) ; then got Australia out for a lead of about 60. Then along came a chap called Meckiff and shot England out for 87...

Wood gone. Boland 5/5 ? Oh dear...

[JDizzle]

It’s one thing being rolled over by Cummins and Starc or Jadeja and Axar on bunsens - but Scott Boland? Come on now.

Still not as bad as the Roston Chase debacle!

I'd say that and the twin hundreds from two metre Peter Fulton (Test Match average 25) are would be the finalists in biggest England debacle of the century!

[compelling and rich]

anyone got the stats for leading wicket takers? i can never find them had cummins and anderson as leading wicket takers as a double. anderson not playing first match and this batting performance really isnt helping me

come on butler hit a quick 50, then get out to cummins and he takes the last two and anderson takes another 5-5

[JDizzle]

Just drop all of them. Genuinely just call up all the lads from the BBL. This is as low as it gets.

[Duty281]

And the point of the last two tests is...?

This may be a new low. I'm not sure, England have hit many lows over the past 5-6 years in test cricket.

Boland 6/5! I'm confused. This is like Murtagh at Lord's.

[alfie]

Fair to say this is a pitch that favours the pace bowlers...but still.

Boland has six now. And the duck record has been tied at 54 with Robinson falling...

At least you fellows will all get an early night

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Just drop all of them. Genuinely just call up all the lads from the BBL. This is as low as it gets.

Welcome aboard the “never stopped believing in Ben Duckett” bandwagon

[compelling and rich]

whats robinson doing coming in so high? makes leach and anderson look like jimmy adams and Brian lara

[Duty281]

Give Alex Hales a recall. Get Darren Stevens on a plane. Bring back Vince and Denly.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Give Alex Hales a recall. Get Darren Stevens on a plane. Bring back Vince and Denly.

Justice for Ed Smith!

[JDizzle]

Just drop all of them. Genuinely just call up all the lads from the BBL. This is as low as it gets.

Welcome aboard the “never stopped believing in Ben Duckett” bandwagon

Duckett, Hales, Vince, Abell, Clarke, Brook, Billings, Lammonby, Mills, Topley, Mahmood. Let's go.

[Duty281]

Aussies win. Well done them.

Pathetic from England. Get this down to a three-test series.

Fully expect the team to fall apart in the next few days. Stokes off home. Broad retires. Buttler chucks it in. Root resigns. Silverwood goes. The whole lot.

[alfie]

The sight of Ben Stokes with his head down in despair on the sidelines sums it all up as Green finishes the job...

Got to say first : congrats Australia Moan all you like about England's deficiencies but this has been a wonderful performance from the home team. Totally ruthless , totally committed. Hats off to them.

Black day for England. There are reasons why they're struggling here but it has got worse not better I'm afraid and they look not merely beaten now , but broken. Which is a bit sad.

[JDizzle]

Yes - it's been the perfect storm for England to fail, but by far the biggest contributing factor is just Australia are a lot, lot better than them.

[JDizzle]

England were in quarantine on the Gold Coast longer than the Ashes lasted.

[alfie]

Aussies win. Well done them.

Pathetic from England. Get this down to a three-test series.

Fully expect the team to fall apart in the next few days. Stokes off home. Broad retires. Buttler chucks it in. Root resigns. Silverwood goes. The whole lot.

Understand your despair , Duty . But they can't all just quit of course, and they won't. Just how they can get themselves together for Sydney I don't know but with two more Tests scheduled they are going to have to find eleven players who actually want to be out there. Don't envy Root at the moment.

I think I will get off now and allow those who want to let off steam before I try to comment further.

[JuliusHMarx]

I think I will get off now and allow those who want to let off steam before I try to comment further.

Thanks alfie, much appreciated.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, you can come back now.

[guildfordbat]

And yet they dropped Burns...

Ah well good to see I have some company on here this morning : Duty I hope they can give you something encouraging to watch as a reward for staying up so late at risk of witnessing more slaughter !  Think one or two others are around too ? Guildford ?

Yep, I'm here. Been a big family day at Guildford Towers, just been catching up on the posts here since I turned in at lunch yesterday.

Jeepers! Where to start?

Anyway, as you know Alfie, I always enjoy the MotM award. On the stats, it may well go to Boland; however, well as he played, he fully came to the party when most of the meaningful work had been done. My award would therefore go to Cummins as the captain and representative of an Australian side which produced an excellent all round performance. Shout outs to Starc for not just being My Man but consistently effective bowling across both England's digs and also Harris for top scoring with proper grit and determination. Credit as well to Anderson for his bowling in Australia's innings and producing a performance which deserved so much better from his team mates.

[alfie]

I think I will get off now and allow those who want to let off steam before I try to comment further.

Thanks alfie, much appreciated.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, you can come back now.

I'm rather glad I didn't go to the ground today. Had been considering it yesterday. I feel your pain...

[Duty281]

Trying to think of all the low moments since 2016, which is around the time the whole collapse of the test team started:

Collapsing from 124/2 to 164ao to lose to Bangladesh. Nair making 300. Shai Hope leading a successful chase of 322. Being 360/4 and losing by an innings at Perth. Bowled out for 58 at Eden Park. Losing by 381 runs to the West Indies, a game that included England being 77ao, Holder making a double ton, Dowrich a ton, and Chase taking 8/60 (even writing that makes zero sense). Santner making a ton, Watling making a double ton, England losing by an innings v NZ (thought I dreamt that one). Oh and the near Irish fiasco, where England were bowled out for 85. This isn't all of the horrors, but it is the highlights.

And now this travesty with England losing by an innings after bowling the opposition out for 267. Can't be many times that has happened. Boland 6/7.

Nine losses in the last 12 tests, with rain saving England in two of those, perhaps. And tough tests coming up, with a difficult summer and a trip to Pakistan next winter, plus two more tests here. It'll be worse before it gets better.

The most damning thing of all is England haven't discovered a test-class batsman for nearly a decade.

[alfie]

And yet they dropped Burns...

Ah well good to see I have some company on here this morning : Duty I hope they can give you something encouraging to watch as a reward for staying up so late at risk of witnessing more slaughter !  Think one or two others are around too ? Guildford ?

Yep, I'm here. Been a big family day at Guildford Towers, just been catching up on the posts here since I turned in at lunch yesterday.

Jeepers! Where to start?

Anyway, as you know Alfie, I always enjoy the MotM award. On the stats, it may well go to Boland; however, well as he played, he fully came to the party when most of the meaningful work had been done. My award would therefore go to Cummins as the captain and representative of an Australian side which produced an excellent all round performance. Shout outs to Starc for not just being My Man but consistently effective bowling across both England's digs and also Harris for top scoring with proper grit and determination. Credit as well to Anderson for his bowling in Australia's innings and producing a performance which deserved so much better from his team mates.

Hi guildford... I guess the freak figures for Boland ensured he would get the gong. He certainly put the finishing touches to it but in truth the game was effectively won earlier by the likes of Cummins and Starc. The Australian bowlers really have operated as a pack in this series : and to be honest they've surprised me with the way they've covered the loss of Hazlewood (and even Cummins for one game !) The advance of Green has been a big plus too.

You don't often see a team demolished so comprehensively as that even when the other side is on top ! Bit like the way they blew India away in Adelaide last year I suppose : except this is the deciding Test not the first of four.

Glad you were able to enjoy the family day before watching this rather unfortunate debacle

[guildfordbat]

And yet they dropped Burns...

Ah well good to see I have some company on here this morning : Duty I hope they can give you something encouraging to watch as a reward for staying up so late at risk of witnessing more slaughter !  Think one or two others are around too ? Guildford ?

Yep, I'm here. Been a big family day at Guildford Towers, just been catching up on the posts here since I turned in at lunch yesterday.

Jeepers! Where to start?

Anyway, as you know Alfie, I always enjoy the MotM award. On the stats, it may well go to Boland; however, well as he played, he fully came to the party when most of the meaningful work had been done. My award would therefore go to Cummins as the captain and representative of an Australian side which produced an excellent all round performance. Shout outs to Starc for not just being My Man but consistently effective bowling across both England's digs and also Harris for top scoring with proper grit and determination. Credit as well to Anderson for his bowling in Australia's innings and producing a performance which deserved so much better from his team mates.

Hi guildford... I guess the freak figures for Boland ensured he would get the gong. He certainly put the finishing touches to it but in truth the game was effectively won earlier by the likes of Cummins and Starc. The Australian bowlers really have operated as a pack in this series : and to be honest they've surprised me with the way they've covered the loss of Hazlewood (and even Cummins for one game !)  The advance of Green has been a big plus too.

You don't often see a team demolished so comprehensively as that even when the other side is on top ! Bit like the way they blew India away in Adelaide last year I suppose : except this is the deciding Test not the first of four.

Glad you were able to enjoy the family day before watching this rather unfortunate debacle

Cheers, Alfie. Thanks also for your posts throughout our nights. They are all read and much appreciated.

[Duty281]

- Shortest test match in Australia for 70 years.
- Fastest ever six-wicket haul in tests, for Boland.
- Third lowest first innings lead to end up with an innings win.

Root: "We put them under pressure and were very much in the Test match. We've got to do things for longer, been small pockets but nowhere near long enough. We know the areas we need to improve on."

Boland: "I thought it would be tough because it is a huge step up from the stuff I've played before but I wanted to have a little impact."

No, it's not a huge step-up from Shield Cricket, bowling against England is the exact opposite!

[alfie]

Trying to think of all the low moments since 2016, which is around the time the whole collapse of the test team started:

Collapsing from 124/2 to 164ao to lose to Bangladesh. Nair making 300. Shai Hope leading a successful chase of 322. Being 360/4 and losing by an innings at Perth. Bowled out for 58 at Eden Park. Losing by 381 runs to the West Indies, a game that included England being 77ao, Holder making a double ton, Dowrich a ton, and Chase taking 8/60 (even writing that makes zero sense). Santner making a ton, Watling making a double ton, England losing by an innings v NZ (thought I dreamt that one). Oh and the near Irish fiasco, where England were bowled out for 85. This isn't all of the horrors, but it is the highlights.

And now this travesty with England losing by an innings after bowling the opposition out for 267. Can't be many times that has happened. Boland 6/7.

Nine losses in the last 12 tests, with rain saving England in two of those, perhaps. And tough tests coming up, with a difficult summer and a trip to Pakistan next winter, plus two more tests here. It'll be worse before it gets better.

The most damning thing of all is England haven't discovered a test-class batsman for nearly a decade.

That last is the bit that counts. The root cause of all the recent losses. Not really too bothered about the litany of past disasters - every team has their share of those shockers ; and several of them were mixed in among good results. History anyway.

I don't have a solution. But unless and until they can find a couple of proper batsmen to assist Joe Root there are going to be more of these failures - even if they won't be all as dramatic as today's!

[guildfordbat]

whats robinson doing coming in so high? makes leach and anderson look like jimmy adams and Brian lara

Like his Sussex team mate Archer, Robinson's batting seems to have fallen off a cliff. He made a valuable 40 odd on Test debut in the summer but has never remotely looked like repeating it.

[guildfordbat]

- Shortest test match in Australia for 70 years.
- Fastest ever six-wicket haul in tests, for Boland.
- Third lowest first innings lead to end up with an innings win.

Root: "We put them under pressure and were very much in the Test match. We've got to do things for longer, been small pockets but nowhere near long enough. We know the areas we need to improve on."

Boland: "I thought it would be tough because it is a huge step up from the stuff I've played before but I wanted to have a little impact."

No, it's not a huge step-up from Shield Cricket, bowling against England is the exact opposite!

Just also heard now Silverwood's interview with Alison Mitchell. Not exactly inspiring or even realistic - doubt that'll be converting Olly!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

- Shortest test match in Australia for 70 years.
- Fastest ever six-wicket haul in tests, for Boland.
- Third lowest first innings lead to end up with an innings win.

Root: "We put them under pressure and were very much in the Test match. We've got to do things for longer, been small pockets but nowhere near long enough. We know the areas we need to improve on."

Boland: "I thought it would be tough because it is a huge step up from the stuff I've played before but I wanted to have a little impact."

No, it's not a huge step-up from Shield Cricket, bowling against England is the exact opposite!

Just also heard now Silverwood's interview with Alison Mitchell. Not exactly inspiring or even realistic - doubt that'll be converting Olly!

Just came on to post it - https://twitter.com/btsportcricket/status/1475641312993071110?s=21

Englands problems run a lot deeper than just changing the coach and captain, but man, this coach is *horrendous*
Legitimately delusional

[JDizzle]

Just give Strauss and a blank cheque and let him go to work. The only person who has been involved off the field who I would have any confidence in setting the planning in motion to turn the ship around.

[alfie]

Just give Strauss and a blank cheque and let him go to work. The only person who has been involved off the field who I would have any confidence in setting the planning in motion to turn the ship around.

Not a bad idea. Strauss certainly strikes me as the fellow who might have good ideas for improvement. But turning this ship around is looking like a pretty big task.

One of the problems seems to be that the "right" people aren't always up for the job at the time they're needed. We will have to leave this to those in charge though won't we ?

In the meantime they still have two more games to go. Do they have a psychologist on board ? Because I believe the most important factor in selecting for Sydney needs to be establishing which of the playing group really want to be there. I mean , good luck whoever they pick ; but you've got no hope unless you have total commitment from everyone.

[Soul Requiem]

Collingwood, Trescothick, Trott and Thorpe have all been involved in the coaching set up in recent years. I'd like to hear an honest assessment from any of them of the batting line up because the work the coaches are putting in clearly isn't good enough. One of them must have an action plan.

[KP_fan]

From the way getting the ball in the middle of bat was a successful event last evening...I am not surprised at a double digit debacle
Shocked & a bit disappointed  ....but not surprised.

The pitch had turned blistering fast , zippy, kicking off a length & edges flying
And when Eng bowling was able to get 9 for 240 odd...meant that superiority of Aussie bowling and mediocrity of Eng batting would create a gulf between their scores.
The LBW of Malan and clean bowled of none other than Stokes examples of fast the ball was coming off the pitch

And how huge Gulf it has turned out to be.... to be beaten by an inning when the other side barely crossed 250....and in two and a quarter days...with last 6 falling for 20 odd and last 4 for 7 runs.
By the look of scorecard it might seem another sub-standard for test cricket pitch

Here is a whatsapp forward I got this morning .....appalling if true.
What does Eng do from here?

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