Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

[Mind the windows Tino.]

First topic message reminder :

James Bracey? Admittedly looked painfully bad vs NZ in the summer, but if we are wanting to give guys a chance then he shouldn’t be forgotten about so quickly. Especially as he was batting out of position. Better FC record than Hameed and made a half century for the Lions in Aus in 2020 and a ton this time. But he was flown home because English scoring runs just isn’t on!

Fair. Had forgotten about him actually and he was thrown a suicide pass in the summer against the best test team in the world. He probably does deserve another shot in the near future.

[Duty281]

Not in Australia, but the radar seems to be pretty clear. 4-0 incoming.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/au/sydney/22889/minute-weather-forecast/22889

[JDizzle]

That’s a review you make when the next three batters don’t have working hands and/or sides. Batted Zak - Burns, Sibley, Crawley is the top three to invest in going forward imo.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Not in Australia, but the radar seems to be pretty clear. 4-0 incoming.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/au/sydney/22889/minute-weather-forecast/22889

Can’t believe I trusted the weatherman and passed up 6/4 on Australia to win before play! Gah

[guildfordbat]

That’s a review you make when the next three batters don’t have working hands and/or sides. Batted Zak - Burns, Sibley, Crawley is the top three to invest in going forward imo.

Yep. Although it was always going to be a wasted review, it was still one that needed to be made.

[alfie]

That’s a review you make when the next three batters don’t have working hands and/or sides. Batted Zak - Burns, Sibley, Crawley is the top three to invest in going forward imo.

Yep. Although it was always going to be a wasted review, it was still one that needed to be made.

Not sure I agree. Was so clearly out it was pointless. OK they had three so really shouldn't miss it ; but if there were a couple of dodgy calls later and you ended up without a review for Jimmy at 5.59 you'd kick yourself...

Lasted to lunch anyway. Just. Need these two to bat to tea at least though. Tall order.

[guildfordbat]

That’s a review you make when the next three batters don’t have working hands and/or sides. Batted Zak - Burns, Sibley, Crawley is the top three to invest in going forward imo.

Yep. Although it was always going to be a wasted review, it was still one that needed to be made.

Not sure I agree. Was so clearly out it was pointless. OK they had three so really shouldn't miss it ; but if there were a couple of dodgy calls later and you ended up without a review for Jimmy at 5.59 you'd kick yourself...

Lasted to lunch anyway. Just. Need these two to bat to tea at least though. Tall order.

I thought someone else had said the game was over once the door was opened to the 3 walking wounded and the 4 bunnies.

Anyway, bed calling for me. Leaving you guys to somehow see us to safety. Perhaps the rain will come although I would rather the game have a true finish whatever the result.

I normally grumble when a batsman goes for 70 odd saying he should have gone on and made it big. However, tbf it was a very good ball from Green to account for Crawley and he had played admirably before then with some much needed sensible aggression. Compare and contrast with Hameed - currently a cricketing version of a broken reed having failed to make it to double figures in any of his last 6 innings.

[alfie]

So of course the rain arrived over lunch...doesn't look too bad on my TV but it's holding up the restart at the moment.

[king_carlos]

Losing these overs is going to really hurt England's push for victory.

[alfie]

Tea at 174/4. Must take some blame for the loss of Root...had to go out for an hour and England are even more fragile when I'm not watching over them - if that's possible. The the ginger pair somehow survived to the break.

Back out now . 13 overs to the new ball. No storms threatening ...

[Pal Joey]

Still a bit of life in this pitch...

[alfie]

Still a bit of life in this pitch...

Yes. It's a bit of an odd one in that it's looked mostly placid , especially with the older ball ; but every now and then one jumps rather alarmingly. Not nice for batsmen already coping with injuries !

Fifty for Stokes

[alfie]

And there is the break...nice bowling from Lyon . Draws the error from Stokes , easily into Smith's paws at slip - though Smith actually had a bit of a juggle with it. The bounce did for him , really , as much as the sharp turn.

Stokes has had a good match . Pity he has copped the injury - and of course that he didn't have a proper preparation for the series . He's the England talisman and they need him at his top to carry a fair few underwhelming support troops. He and Bairstow bat well together : now that stand is broken Australia will fancy their chances. New ball in four...

[alfie]

Cummins gets the break ! Buttler very lbw ... Not sure why that wasn't given on field , to be honest : but the review was clear. Aye he thought he'd hit it - but he just hit his own boot. Was a good full delivery.

Wood in with still some 17 overs to go ... And out second ball ! Great swinging Yorker...lbw though he's reviewed in desperation...no chance.

Seven down and it won't be long now. Just hope he hasn't broken a toe as well !

[Pal Joey]

Yeah, shades of Brisbane '74 with Tony Greig getting the sandshoe crusher from Thommo.

Wonder why Broad isn't at the crease, alfie?
Do they believe Jack can perform his famous stonewall role again... or is Stuart injured or being protected for some reason?

[alfie]

That was some super swing bowling from Cummins ! Wood had no hope playing that ball - reckon Bradman might have not fancied facing that , second ball of his innings ...

England have actually done quite well to get this as deep as they have ; but I can't see them holding on now.

Bit of luck now as Bairstow edges Starc and Smith can't quite gather it as it goes low to his right...just about carried to him.

16 overs left. 218/7. Not that the runs really matter now...

Leach is in the Cummins sights now : good luck Jack .

[alfie]

Really impressed with how Cummins has dialled it up with this new ball : he'd looked a bit jaded earlier but has stepped up as his team was getting a bit anxious for a break.
He's had a magnificent debut series as skipper  

Drinks. Fifteen to go.

[alfie]

Yeah, shades of Brisbane '74 with Tony Greig getting the sandshoe crusher from Thommo.

Wonder why Broad isn't at the crease, alfie?
Do they believe Jack can perform his famous stonewall role again... or is Stuart injured or being protected for some reason?

Think Leach has generally gone in ahead of Stuart for a while now , PJ. He's considered a better defender. And we can probably take it as a sign they are no longer chasing the target

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I’d have Jimmy in ahead of Broad if the task is merely defending!

[alfie]

Morning Olly ... Imagine you are slightly surprised to wake up and see it still going ? I'm afraid it's going to be another one of those soul destroying "hopes dashed at the end " days... But at least they have shown a lot of fight in this match.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Morning Olly ... Imagine you are slightly surprised to wake up and see it still going ?  I'm afraid it's going to be another one of those soul destroying "hopes dashed at the end " days... But at least they have shown a lot of fight in this match.

I am indeed surprised! Just caught up on the posts now to see that they might have injured Wood too? Will we actually be able to field a team for the last one

Also note your point re: Stokes - nice to see him refind some form with the bat but of course it comes just as he’s injured. Typical!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ah there goes Bairstow and any remaining hope - let’s see what nonsense Broad has in store with the bat for us
I am reminded of the time he was batting to save the draw against Sri Lanka at Headingley and went off the field to go to the loo amongst such other randomness.

[alfie]

Ah and there it goes... Bairstow's resistance ends with a little edge on to his pad rebounding to Marnus at silly mid off... Boland doing the job again !

Can't see Broad and co lasting much longer...

[alfie]

Ten overs left. Does make you wonder if the likes of Malan and Root had just been able to bat a few more overs earlier...

Bairstow will be gutted to get out then after the way he's battled on through this innings. Copped a couple more blows on the hand too for his trouble . But he's had an excellent match , as indeed has Stokes.

So as you say , injuries were inevitable . Do hope Wood's toe is OK
... Was a crunching hit on it !

[alfie]

Into the last five overs which is much closer than I expected. Have to give these chaps top marks for fighting it out so gamely...but you just know it's going to happen sooner or later...

Pity this wasn't the first Test rather than just following after the easy 3-0. It has been a cracker of a game.

[alfie]

Bloody hell...Smith of all people gets Leach caught at slip ...came off Carey's leg to Warner too... Unlike Root who dropped Khawaja the other day in slightly different circumstances.
Was a great effort from Leach but just couldn't hang on long enough...

What a game , eh ? Into the last over for heaven's sake...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

All cricket should be Jimmy Anderson reverse sweeps and Stuart Broad slogging imo. None of this other rubbish

[alfie]

Jimmy the Saint ... No reverse sweep but he's done the job.

Hey it's just a bloody draw but after the last three games that feels like winning ! Finishes like that are why Test Cricket leaves the White ball stuff for dead...

Aussies might be slightly disappointed but they should be proud to have given the Sydney crowd such a show today - and the 3-0 lead is a reasonable consolation anyway

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Nathan Lyon failing to bowl a side out in the 4th innings is it?

[Pal Joey]

What a finish!

I think after all of that England deserved to hang on for the draw.

There are lots of 'if onlys' of course but that's the nature of the game. To be honest, it could have rained a lot more especially these last two days... I'm surprised they got as much play in as they did.

Anyway, onto the next one in Hobart. I think it will be just as competitive as this one. All the players must be exhausted; and battered & bruised in some cases... but ironically those sort of problems often act as motivation to do that little bit better next time with whatever player stocks they have. We'll see in Hobart.

[alfie]

Looks to have meant a bit to poor old Joe Root anyway...he will feel that he's got the sort of spirit he's wanted from his players this time. Bit of a lift for Hobart.

Khawaja up to get his PoTM award ...looks a happy man as well he should

I see it's started raining now too...that thoughtful Aussie weather timing it nicely

I have a rather nice bottle of scotch that I think can be opened now...

[VTR]

Nice to not lose, can England build on this and compete and even put Australia under pressure at some point?

Do wonder about England finally showing up as they've now had 3 practice games and are improving. We surely can't ever have a tour like this again, covid or not

[msp83]

Finally, England gave us a match! Fine test cricket, battered all over, England held on! Australia again, gave their all, but just wasn't quite enough.
Stokes and Bairstow played well. Hope Bairstow would be left alone at 6 now, he's clearly a 5 to 10 run average above the pretenders they bring along. Not great, but miles better than the likes of Pope. Stokes at last finding some form, but unfortunately, coinciding with yet another injury. Hope he'll be up for the next game, even though he's unable to bowl much.
A good effort from Zak Crawley, Hopefully, that's not the queue for 15 innings of utter ineptitude. Hameed is just not coping with these conditions, though the 58 balls he played out eventually proved to be crucial enough. Think he still should have a role with this team. But as he's a confidence player really, they should have proper conversations with him, give him a clear roadmap, and if they feel he's not up to it, bench him for the next game and bring Burns back in.
Root confirmed Buttler is going home. Hope that's it for him in test cricket, clearly not up to it, though he is a modern-day great of limited overs, leave him alone to do his thing there. Oliver (20Something) Pope didn't seem too bad with the gloves actually. Bat him 7, take anything you get from him in terms of runs as bonus, and in the first opportunity at home, bring Foakes back in. Billings is more of a limited overs dasher isn't he?

[kingraf]

It was a really good Test, England fought back well both innings, although it'll be slightly concerning that they are yet to take 20 wickets in the Test. As always when a captain declares and fails to take 20 wickets, there will be questions about whether Cummins declared too late, with Kerry o'Keefe suggesting 340 would have been enough. While my gut does think Australia win if they declared half an hour earlier, two things are worth noting

1 - England didn't lose a wicket early, so who's to say an extra half hour yesterday makes a difference at all

2 - England did get to 270 without actually batting for the target. I think its valid to say 340 might have been a touch too close for comfort

[sirfredperry]

Good effort to bat it out - just.

Glad Crawley got some runs. If we could get some openers he could bat lower down. He certainly should be persevered with.

I certainly take VTR's point about the lack of warm-up matches. it's hard enough to win away from home as it is, let alone when you go into the Tests effectively cold.

But then England's schedule of late has hardly been conducive to success. With arguably their poorest batting line-up for decades, England have had to play India home and away and Australia away, with Test champs NZ chucked in as well.

[alfie]

Yeah I wouldn't be too critical of Cummins. A few minutes earlier , maybe - but to be honest , he had a right to expect a wicket or two in eleven overs ; and the timing of short burst , still new ball in the morning , and second new ball around the last hour all made some sense. Captains are all rather conservative with declarations these days as some quite large targets have been chased down in recent years...

[Duty281]

Disappointed to see England survive. I'd like to see them get smashed, then we might see the changes required. A 3-1 result could easily delude the ECB that everything is fine (best result in Aus for ten years, lads, give me my bonus!).

No issue with the declaration, that was fine. The usual hindsight merchants will have their own opinions.

Australia drew this test because their catching wasn't up to the usual mark, rain removed a portion of the game, and light prevented them from using their premier bowlers at the end. Those are the breaks.

England's side looks very weak for the fifth test, but it did in 2019 as well and they managed to win that...so who knows?

[alfie]

Disappointed to see England survive. I'd like to see them get smashed, then we might see the changes required. A 3-1 result could easily delude the ECB that everything is fine  (best result in Aus for ten years, lads, give me my bonus!).

No issue with the declaration, that was fine. The usual hindsight merchants will have their own opinions.

Australia drew this test because their catching wasn't up to the usual mark, rain removed a portion of the game, and light prevented them from using their premier bowlers at the end. Those are the breaks.

England's side looks very weak for the fifth test, but it did in 2019 as well and they managed to win that...so who knows?

Can't go along with that. If they don't understand some things need to be properly addressed after the wretched run they've had in their last 13 Tests nothing would cause them to take action : and I could never take the view that it would be a good thing for the team to lose heavily just because I disagree with the way management have handled things.
I do understand why you might take that view of course ; but it is just not a philosophy I could ever accept. Nor , I am pleased to see , could this embattled and battered crew , judging by their spirited response to the horrors of Melbourne.

Will be interesting to see what sort of a patched up outfit they can put up for Hobart. Whatever happens , there will still be a serious inquest after the tour , I think we can be assured. I hope for another proper contest ; and will worry about The Future after that.

[Duty281]

That's the issue, though - there won't be a serious inquest. Just some platitudes extended and English first-class cricket will struggle on.

I enjoyed Anderson's jab in a post-game interview:

"We had no cricket leading into this," added 39-year-old Anderson, England's all-time leading wicket-taker. "Imagine what we could have achieved if we'd had two or three first-class games before the series.

In other news, Tom Curran is another England bowler who has succumbed to a stress fracture in the back, and he'll be out for many months.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Dobell reporting there will be five changes for England in this test...

Burns
Crawley
Malan
Root
Stokes (bat only)
Pope
Billings (wk)
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Broad

The expected XI. Hameed dropped and Burns back in, Bairstow highly likely not fit so Pope back in, Billings to keep in place of Buttler, Woakes in for Leach and Robinson in for Anderson who pulled up sore after the last game.

[Duty281]

Curran at 7 and Denly opening was the nightmare England had in the 5th test of the last Ashes series, and England actually managed to win. This is a similarly messy team. I wonder if Hameed being dropped is a permanent step, or if he will return for the West Indies series?

Will be disappointing for Anderson to miss out in a pink-ball test.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Curran at 7 and Denly opening was the nightmare England had in the 5th test of the last Ashes series, and England actually managed to win. This is a similarly messy team. I wonder if Hameed being dropped is a permanent step, or if he will return for the West Indies series?

Will be disappointing for Anderson to miss out in a pink-ball test.

My favourite part of that 2019 Ashes series (bar you know, Stokes) was when they dropped Roy down to 4 between innings at Old Trafford, and promoted Denly up to open...yet Roy ended up facing a ball before Denly anyways

Peak England

[msp83]

Why did they take Daniel Lawrence to Australia? Pope, despite his massive inconsistencies, being given chance after chance to try and get him to the Ramprakash number of tests. Yet Lawrence, who did play a few decent knocks against Sri Lanka, India and New Zealand, and who also can chip in with some overs, is consistently benched. Not that Lawrence has shown too many signs of breaking of the 20Something Club led by Pope, but at the very least he too, deserves a few chances. And since Stokes is not going to bowl, and they not going in with the regular spinner, Lawrence would have made a lot more sense than Pope who at this stage of his career, can only really be picked as the wicketkeeper batter with less batting expectations unlike with a specialist bat.

[VTR]

Wondering what Ollie Pope has done to msp in a current or former life!

[king_carlos]

From what I've seen of Lawrence I'd have questions about him against the short ball. He's an attractive player off the front foot and can play spin a bit but when quicker bowlers go short he tries to get off-side of it, dragging him further and further across the crease. He can then lose where his off stump is and his head falls over.

My guess would be he was in the squad with the hope practice time in those conditions could improve it and they probably haven't. I didn't really think Lawrence should've toured for those reasons. I'm not saying any of that means Pope deserves another chance currently.

Lawrence's bowling would get obliterated in these conditions. There's a bit of ability there but currently he either bowls darts (his T20 bowling) or absurdly flights it (his F-C bowling) with absolutely nothing in between. Darts on these pitches would see the batsman sit in their crease and smash the inevitable part timers drag downs off the back foot. His flighted deliveries would see batsman use their feet very easily and whack him off the front foot. His bowling should be no more a consideration than Broad's batting is at this stage.

For what it's worth I think Pope needs to go back to F-C cricket with Surrey and develop some sort of plan against spin before being near the Test side again. Continuing in Test cricket with no game at all against spin is just going to keep giving the same results. His strike rate against spin in the CC is very low. I'm usually one who thinks strike rate is near meaningless in red ball cricket as well. If you can't score against spin in the CC then Test spinners will eat you alive though.

It's a depressingly bare cupboard as we've discussed to death.

* Fun fact. England picked Hales as a fast scoring opener but he ended up with a worse career strike rate than Cook.

[Afro]

I think I am in the camp of bringing in Lawrence instead of Pope, particularly as msp says, with Stokes probably not bowling.

Until someone new comes along who takes to test cricket like a duck to water, we are going to be in this endless cycle of rotating the same players, dropping one when they don't exceed what they have done before, and replace them with someone who has performed at pretty much the same level themselves

[msp83]

Or if they really really think Pope is going to be the next after Root, then they should pick him as the keeper, and for the medium run, keep picking Bairstow as a batter. He has his technical issues, but while getting bowled day in and out, he'll give you 32- 35 on an average, which is 10 more than what Pope and co can do. If they think Pope is the best of that lot, the only way his selection can really be viable for a top test side is if he adds value in some other way with the ball or gloves. As a keeper, actually, he seemed pretty good.

[king_carlos]

I've defended Bairstow's record at 6 and 7 for a while. He was good there despite his flaws. Shoehorning Buttler in and shifting Bairstow up the order did YJB and England no favours whatsoever. The frequent talk of Bairstow "being wasted down the order" when scoring runs there always frustrated me. Such an English cricket thought process. Somethings actually working, how can we change that?

Pope has some natural talent as a keeper. He's an ideal build, very quick footed, agile, good hands. Lots to work with. Batting at 7 won't change the fact he has no game against spin though. He needs time in F-C cricket as a batsman not Test cricket as a keeper.

I'd much prefer Foakes just get a run as keeper to see how he goes. Earlier in the year I largely agreed with Guildford's quote I've mentioned before, "Foakes looked like a beautiful bridesmaid rather than the bride". I still hope he gets a run to see if he can find consistency at the top level though.

[king_carlos]

I do like though that two posters agreement that Pope shouldn't be anywhere near the Test side again so soon has led to msp pivoting his argument to how England could still fit Pope in rather than his initial point that Pope shouldn't be anywhere near the XI.

Without contrarians online debates would be much shorter and usually less entertaining. 

[Mind the windows Tino.]

I think I am in the camp of bringing in Lawrence instead of Pope, particularly as msp says, with Stokes probably not bowling.

Same here. Lawrence and Pope may both have limitations, so if you're choosing between them for one last test, at least give the lad a go who hasn't already been exposed. He literally (almost) can't do any worse than Pope.

Pope needs time out of the test team. Not a one off match at the end of a hammering. He looks like a kid at school whose lost his dinner money at the moment. Best case, he scores some runs and stays in the team to work on his game under the most intense scrutiny. Worst case (and more likely) Lyon folds him in half and his confidence takes one more unnecessary beating.

[Mind the windows Tino.]

My guess would be he was in the squad with the hope practice time in those conditions could improve it and they probably haven't.

Thorpe needs to earn his money then.

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