English 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/05/six-nations-rugby-covid-rob-baxter

A potential answer to a potential problem. Baxter has said that if there is a risk of cancellations or playing in front of 1 man and his dog you may as well play all the games in England.

I suppose an interesting suggestion. If they could agree a slice of revenue from whichever grounds would host along with some teams giving up home advantage would people want to see this? It doesn't reduce the risk at all, merely increases it surely, gives England an advantage. It's unlikely the Government will bring in further restrictions as their hands are tied by the back benchers so reduces the risk of last minute changes. Just a big melting pot of cross contamination.


'Rob Baxter, Exeter’s director of rugby, believes that playing this season’s Six Nations in one country has “got to be better than cancelling it”.

The tournament is due to kick off in Dublin and Edinburgh on 5 February but currently finds itself shrouded in uncertainty. Under current Welsh Government restrictions imposed due to the pandemic and, specifically, the omicron variant, Wales would have to play scheduled home games against Scotland, France and Italy behind closed doors. Scotland are in a similar position for games at Murrayfield, while it has been reported that Wales could consider moving their home against Scotland, France and Italy to England.

Financial implications of behind-closed-doors home games for the Welsh Rugby Union would be significant. They faced an identical situation for last season’s tournament, with the shutters being down for matches against Ireland and England. Full crowds were, however, allowed at the Principality Stadium for Wales’ recent Autumn Nations Series before fresh restrictions took effect from Boxing Day.

Capacity crowds are currently allowed in England, provided spectators can prove full vaccination status or provide a negative lateral flow test. Against such a backdrop, playing the whole competition – it takes place across five weekends between early February and mid-March – in one country with permitted crowds has also been mooted in some quarters.

“The whole beauty of the Six Nations has been that change of environment, that change of weather conditions, going to play in Scotland, Wales, Ireland – those are the great challenges,” said Baxter. “That’s what makes the Six Nations such a great competition to win. You’ve seen French teams in that one week they can beat anyone in the world in Paris, and then the next week it doesn’t go quite so well in Cardiff. That’s the beauty of the tournament, that’s what from a rugby perspective I am sure we would all want to see happen.

“That said, we can’t all sit here and pretend the world is in an ideal place at the moment. For the national bodies, their responsibility goes beyond the professional sport, it goes right down to grassroots rugby, so if playing the tournament provides a level of income that cancelling it or no crowds doesn’t create, then we’ve got to look at the next best scenario. If the next best scenario is playing it in one country, where you can have sellout crowds, you can raise some revenue and you can keep that income stream going for all the bodies, then it’s got to be better than cancelling it.


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“I think with every sporting body, it’s revenue that is the biggest thing that has been damaged, so anything that can keep revenue online has got to be preferable to just binning things for a season,” Baxter added. “We’ve all had to try and find a way to keep going, to try and keep revenue coming in. It’s the same with any business, you’ve got to explore those options.”

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Im pretty sure he'll be very aware of what he did.

And look lets be fair, hes not the first or the last professional sports person who will have a brain f@rt

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Any news on squad changes?

They have discovered Andre Esteruizens English granny and hes now in the squad.

I guess filling your squad with SA mercenaries seems to work for everyone else.

What SA mercenaries do other teams have then?
Particularly interested in the Ireland list.

We do have Rob Herring who moved to England aged 19 and played 2 Currie Cup games for Western Province.
Joined Ulster aged 22 and has an Irish grandparent.
So by no stretch of the imagination a top flight player who moved north for International recognition.
He achieved it because he worked hard at his game here in Ireland.

Ireland seem to have moved on from the SA ringers to NZ/Aus ones.....it's important not to stand still in rugby Geoff

To be fair, I think Toonie has somebody based at every international airport checking arrivals from SA....Scotland have the South Africa imports fully wrapped up.

He has been spotted in Maternity wards in Hospitals across SA, they have his photo at every hospital reception to ensure he is denied access to any baby weighing in at more than eight pounds at birth

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Yes and no, and I saw you touched upon it before. LCD did well and everything almost to the letter he should have done. I wouldn't mind if he felt he could contest in the air, or Nailed Graham when he took the ball. It is clear his decision was to deliberately knock the ball out. You can say that he's a forward he isn't used to it but all players should know the laws and the consequences. That said, he knows he let the team down (despite the rallying round him) and I wouldn't drop any of the starting front row.

Harsh but fair. I’d add maybe early to bed without supper*.

LCD is an elite test level athlete representing his country. This requires the right physique, the right skill level, the right training, and a minimum head for the battle.

He had a number of options he could have taken – he took the dumbest.

And yes, I’d rather he hadn’t been there at that moment – in that case Sco would have deservedly scored in the corner for 5, had a fairly tricky kick for the extra 2, and England would have kept 15 players on the pitch - at least one of which could throw the ball in the LO. Game on.

* Although maybe just a swap with George this time.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Randall isnt good enough...if Quirke is fit...play him

Quirke seemed like he adapted to senior level Rugby pretty well against the Boks, hey?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Yes and no, and I saw you touched upon it before. LCD did well and everything almost to the letter he should have done. I wouldn't mind if he felt he could contest in the air, or Nailed Graham when he took the ball. It is clear his decision was to deliberately knock the ball out. You can say that he's a forward he isn't used to it but all players should know the laws and the consequences. That said, he knows he let the team down (despite the rallying round him) and I wouldn't drop any of the starting front row.

I thought LCD was having a nice game before his bad mistake. In fact, he got himself in position to defend the kick when no one else was. The not spreading out on defense was a team mistake.

There are no doubts he knows he screwed the pooch, so to speak. To me, he is still England's best hooker and should be starting if able.

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Yes and no, and I saw you touched upon it before. LCD did well and everything almost to the letter he should have done. I wouldn't mind if he felt he could contest in the air, or Nailed Graham when he took the ball. It is clear his decision was to deliberately knock the ball out. You can say that he's a forward he isn't used to it but all players should know the laws and the consequences. That said, he knows he let the team down (despite the rallying round him) and I wouldn't drop any of the starting front row.

I thought LCD was having a nice game before his bad mistake.  In fact, he got himself in position to defend the kick when no one else was.  The not spreading out on defense was a team mistake.  

There are no doubts he knows he screwed the pooch, so to speak.  To me, he is still England's best hooker and should be starting if able.        

That he ended up defending the wing shows how badly out of shape england were. There was someone on the far side (I think Marchant) who got absolutely sold one before the ball got Oinked out over to LCD...that looked like a rabbit in headlights moment too.

I think theres an underlying piece to this that England as a whole were starting to get nervy, the Smith overkick maybe another example. Its interesting that the pundits talked directly about this sort of thing prior to the match off the back of Townsend talking about how he had learned not to get the team too pumped up on emotion and use their heads.

England did lack a seasoned captain and most of their senior leaders on the pitch. Was there someone keeping them on an even keel and thinking straight? Early on theyd been really disciplined and tight. Controlled in the scrum and playing to plan (maybe too prescriptively), avoiding handbags and generally looking level heads even when behind on the board. That just seemed to go a bit toward the end. Whereas Scotland once they went behind seemed to switch up a gear but still look controlled.

Maybe a bit more maturity and leadership as a group? Sometimes in infectious.

Hard to really know of course without being in the minds of the players, but seemed to be a thing to me.

Of players who didn't have a good game I think Marchant should be near the top of the list.

lostinwales wrote:Of players who didn't have a good game I think Marchant should be near the top of the list.

Malins can keep him company at the top of the list. And. And. And....

A shame for Ludlam to miss out. I thought he played well on Saturday.

Launchbury back is a boost though. The pack has never looked the same when missing Lawes, Launchbury and Kruis at the same time. That's now compounded by Hill's foot injury as well.

1.Marler 2.Cowan-Dickie 3.Sinckler 4.Launchbury 5.Itoje 6.Lawes 7.Curry 8.Dombrandt

16.George 17.Genge 18.Stuart 19.Hill 20.Underhill/Ludlam

If we could move towards something such as that by the Wales game on 26th February then I'd be much happier with the forwards.

doctor_grey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Of players who didn't have a good game I think Marchant should be near the top of the list.

Malins can keep him company at the top of the list.  And.  And.  And....

Malins was our top runner with 100m to his name ( Simmonds second with 51) but he didn't look that threatening

I thought Malins had a solid game. When the midfield are offering so little in attack the wingers will always struggle to do much. Malins seemed to do pretty well with what little ball he got.

What's annoying is that Marchant is a top 13, great in defense and attacking in that position. He's a perfectly fine premiership wing because he's quick and reliable. But he's not even in the top 10 wings in the Prem.

EJ playing our best 13 on the wing and then two other 13's in the centres was never going to end well and tbh it's a credit to the team and should be a worry for Scotland that they did cover so well.

I'd love to see Marchant at 13 and Daly at 23 but am resigned to seeing him either stay on the wing or drop out of the team.

A Scotland fan I'm good friends with was asking me what I thought an England side might look like next year, building into the RWC. My honest instinct was that if a lot of the experienced players can get fit and available then they'd still walk back in.

1.Marler 2.Cowan-Dickie 3.Sinckler 4.Itoje 5.Kruis 6.Underhill 7.Curry 8.Dombrandt
9.Youngs 10.Smith 11.May 12.Tuilagi 13.Slade 14.Watson 15.Steward

16.George 17.Genge 18.Stuart 19.Lawes 20.Willis 21.Quirke 22.Farrell 23.Marchant

For all the clamour for new blood I think we miss many of the experienced players. I still think most are better than those currently filling their spots or supposedly pushing them. Especially at lock and wing.

I think Barbeary could push Dombrandt at number 8 as well. Not so much that I think Barbeary is a better all round player but just that his ability to make yards through contact around the fringes is a bit reminiscent of Billy at his best. That easy source of getting over the gain line, hence developing quick ball is something England have missed so much.

There's a few players such as Hill, Malins and Ludlam who I think are good players but I'm just not sure I see them as players that can improve this side to be one I think will go deep in a RWC again.

One short term change I'd be quite interested in for the forwards would be benching LCD and Sinckler together, then firing them on around 45 minutes for some impetus in the second half.

Our use of the bench forwards has felt pretty weak for a while. I'd be interested to see LCD and Sinckler used in the way Kitshoff and Marx are for by Boks to target the opposition in the second half.

If Stuart is going to be the second choice TH for the RWC he needs more minutes at some point as well. I'm far from convinced by him but the trend of him getting a few minutes at the end of the second half when Sinckler is out on his feet feels a poor use of the bench in the short term and a lack of depth looking towards the RWC.

I don't know who Tom Pearson is but he's been added to the squad

https://twitter.com/englandrugby/status/1491128564439306252?s=12

Can anyone shed any light?

Pearson will just be there for training so the coaches can get a look at him. Same as guys like Will Evans and Jack Clement being in training squads before. I'd be astounded if he got near a matchday squad. If further injuries happen then someone such as Ben Earl will likely get a recall.

We saw it against Scotland with Chessum in the initial training squad for a look at him then Isiekwe starting and Chessum not even in the 23.

Jones has liked to look at young players in training squads throughout his tenure. It's a practice I actually like. Graham Henry and Wayne Smith used to use it with the ABs. They'd bring players into train with them very young, let them see the standard, tell them what they need to improve and let them get back to club rugby.

Also makes it harder for Wales to tempt him, they are desperate for championship level players currently

Gooseberry wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Yes and no, and I saw you touched upon it before. LCD did well and everything almost to the letter he should have done. I wouldn't mind if he felt he could contest in the air, or Nailed Graham when he took the ball. It is clear his decision was to deliberately knock the ball out. You can say that he's a forward he isn't used to it but all players should know the laws and the consequences. That said, he knows he let the team down (despite the rallying round him) and I wouldn't drop any of the starting front row.

I thought LCD was having a nice game before his bad mistake.  In fact, he got himself in position to defend the kick when no one else was.  The not spreading out on defense was a team mistake.  

There are no doubts he knows he screwed the pooch, so to speak.  To me, he is still England's best hooker and should be starting if able.        

That he ended up defending the wing shows how badly out of shape england were. There was someone on the far side (I think Marchant) who got absolutely sold one before the ball got Oinked out over to LCD...that looked like a rabbit in headlights moment too.

I think theres an underlying piece to this that England as a whole were starting to get nervy, the Smith overkick maybe another example. Its interesting that the pundits talked directly about this sort of thing prior to the match off the back of Townsend talking about how he had learned not to get the team too pumped up on emotion and use their heads.

England did lack a seasoned captain and most of their senior leaders on the pitch. Was there someone keeping them on an even keel and thinking straight? Early on theyd been really disciplined and tight. Controlled in the scrum and playing to plan (maybe too prescriptively), avoiding handbags and generally looking level heads even when behind on the board. That just seemed to go a bit toward the end. Whereas Scotland once they went behind seemed to switch up a gear but still look controlled.

Maybe a bit more maturity and leadership as a group? Sometimes in infectious.

Hard to really know of course without being in the minds of the players, but seemed to be a thing to me.

Missed tackles by Malines and Steward I think, Marchant ad swung round from left wing. Didn't have a great game though. I don't mind him as cover for the wing, but he's not a top class winger.

And here in lies the issue with that backline......too many players not playing in their natural position. You can get away with one usually, but 4 out of 7 backs out of position is just plain dumb.

I am a bit undecided what natural positions means though as well Pooly. I think Marchant plays outside centre and wing. I think he's good enough to start for England at 13 but not 14. I think Slade is capable of playing 12 adn13, but I think he's a better outside centre. Is barbeary's natural position hooker? Is Sinckler a natural full back? When do you draw the line. Or do you simply look at the skill set and weight the positives and negatives? Afterall Malins plays wing more than full back. And he came through as a fly half. Is Lawes a lock or a flanker? Same for Isiekwe. How much depends on the players around them?

Doesn't sound like Barbeary is going back to hooker any time soon. Kind of feel it is a shame- more freedom to drift in and out of the game from hooker.

No. He doesnt want to, and both Jones and his club have said he's now considered a backrower, specifically a number 8.

lostinwales wrote:Doesn't sound like Barbeary is going back to hooker any time soon. Kind of feel it is a shame- more freedom to drift in and out of the game from hooker.

Dont tell LCD that, taking a breather on the far wing doesnt always pan out well

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I think LCD needs to sit on the naughty step until he realizes what he did.

If England with all our depth can’t handle some key injuries then we’re in more trouble than I thought.

It’s an arguable thought I know but IMO until we move on to the post Manu era we’re always going to be full of excuses and disappointments. Or if he absolutely insists, then bring him on as a last 15 minute finisher only if we need the points. I’d rather give the poor guy a break (in a nice way) and let him prolong his club days.

I’m hoping Eddie isn’t turning into a Lancaster type, with the latter wanting a team full of OS flankers, and Eddie preferring a team full of OCs. Just a bit too muddled for me – keep it simple Eddie with the fat boys, the tall boys and the fast boys all in their correct places.

And another thing Eddie, here in B&I we all want to win the 6N – spending 4 years working toward the next RWC (which we usually don’t win) and seemingly not worrying too much about the 6N doesn’t quite do it for me.

Utter rubbish. He should not have been there because (I guess) Malins should have been. He was the guy who had the foresight to be there in the first place, and he tried something which was punished very severely. There may have been a better option, best would have been to taken out Darcy after catching the ball but not easy to pull off.

You are basically saying that if he'd stayed with the pack a mile away from the kick you would have been happier.

Up to that point he had played very well.

Yes and no, and I saw you touched upon it before. LCD did well and everything almost to the letter he should have done. I wouldn't mind if he felt he could contest in the air, or Nailed Graham when he took the ball. It is clear his decision was to deliberately knock the ball out. You can say that he's a forward he isn't used to it but all players should know the laws and the consequences. That said, he knows he let the team down (despite the rallying round him) and I wouldn't drop any of the starting front row.

I thought LCD was having a nice game before his bad mistake.  In fact, he got himself in position to defend the kick when no one else was.  The not spreading out on defense was a team mistake.  

There are no doubts he knows he screwed the pooch, so to speak.  To me, he is still England's best hooker and should be starting if able.        

That he ended up defending the wing shows how badly out of shape england were. There was someone on the far side (I think Marchant) who got absolutely sold one before the ball got Oinked out over to LCD...that looked like a rabbit in headlights moment too.

I think theres an underlying piece to this that England as a whole were starting to get nervy, the Smith overkick maybe another example. Its interesting that the pundits talked directly about this sort of thing prior to the match off the back of Townsend talking about how he had learned not to get the team too pumped up on emotion and use their heads.

England did lack a seasoned captain and most of their senior leaders on the pitch. Was there someone keeping them on an even keel and thinking straight? Early on theyd been really disciplined and tight. Controlled in the scrum and playing to plan (maybe too prescriptively), avoiding handbags and generally looking level heads even when behind on the board. That just seemed to go a bit toward the end. Whereas Scotland once they went behind seemed to switch up a gear but still look controlled.

Maybe a bit more maturity and leadership as a group? Sometimes in infectious.

Hard to really know of course without being in the minds of the players, but seemed to be a thing to me.

Missed tackles by Malines and Steward I think, Marchant ad swung round from left wing. Didn't have a great game though. I don't mind him as cover for the wing, but he's not a top class winger.

Yeah Marchant got sold the dummy for the first try, for the second one he'd slotted in at 15 to allow for Steward covering the break on the other side. I can't remember who missed the tackles.

One of Slade's strengths is organising the defence from 13, I think he struggled to do that at 12 and when Scotland got outside Daly they seemed to make a lot of metres.

Rugby Union Daily podcast pretty scathing of Youngs and Ford in relation to that last try. Felt that the pack was looking to keep it in and pressure for pen before Youngs picks it up, then questioning Fords pass to Daly.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Rugby Union Daily podcast pretty scathing of Youngs and Ford in relation to that last try. Felt that the pack was looking to keep it in and pressure for pen before Youngs picks it up, then questioning Fords pass to Daly.

Yep. I've been listening to them every day and been decent. The dissection of the Eng Scot match pretty spot on I'd say.

Alex Groves - Pat Lam has released a statement basically saying they have enough second rows and he wasn't making the grade. There is a line about players being offered other opportunities

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pat-lam-explains-bristol-bears-6629796

The problem with someone like him is that he is going to take a couple of years to develop. They don't always make it, but he was such a key part of that last U20 squad you have to hope he will make it eventually.

lostinwales wrote:Doesn't sound like Barbeary is going back to hooker any time soon. Kind of feel it is a shame- more freedom to drift in and out of the game from hooker.

The early coverage made it sound like Eddie Jones asked him to make the move, which seemed odd, given how he was openly on the hunt for additional hookers. Not so long ago, Stephen Jones was saying it would be a disgrace if Jones didn't pick him, having made the demand.

Subsequent interviews showed the player made the choice himself, and then got the OK from his coaches. Jones was only involved insofar as Barbeary wanted to know if the move would take him out of contention for a England place.

Barbeary says he enjoys the greater involvement he gets in the back row, and feels time spent on getting his throwing and scrummaging right is time wasted.

Rugby Fan wrote: and feels time spent on getting his throwing ...right is time wasted.

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Post the next RWC and the Eddie Jones era (assuming the wheels do not spectacularly come off before then) who would you like to see taking over England? Someone English or does that not matter? Maybe a good time to make Shaun Edwards top dog after working with France? Baxter, Borthwick, Gatland, Erasmus, ??

hugehandoff wrote:Post the next RWC and the Eddie Jones era (assuming the wheels do not spectacularly come off before then) who would you like to see taking over England? Someone English or does that not matter? Maybe a good time to make Shaun Edwards top dog after working with France? Baxter, Borthwick, Gatland, Erasmus, ??

Nationality shouldn't matter but be good to have an English coach for English team. Think boat missed years ago for Edwards unfortunately but never know. Baxter but not sure he'd want it. Borthwick be good and suspect he'd like it at some stage. Eramus not in a million years for me! Jones is bad enough with nonsesne with media, he's be even worse I suspect.
Dean Richards? An absolute England legend but club results count against him maybe.

Dean Richards! Have you not read any of Geordies descent into madness and despair?! Anyhow even if he was the rugby version of Alex Ferguson blood capsules did for him.

DEAN RICHARDS!!!!!!!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Dean Richards! Have you not read any of Geordies descent into madness and despair?! Anyhow even if he was the rugby version of Alex Ferguson blood capsules did for him.

Notice the ? after name, just throwing some names around. Not saying it will or should be him but I bet he'll be in conversation with English rugby about job.

Appreciate that mountain. I'm just answering the question. From an RFU pov its a non starter. And from a fans point of view, well Geordie has neatly encapsulated it in emojees.

Actually....having said all that....

No i think hes a brilliant solution...ill be gutted but for the best of England and all that...please take him...

So many options for the future! The RFU absolutely had to go out of their own post Lancaster and frankly should have done years before. The last couple of coaches were out of their depth, although even prior to that the better qualified ones had failed. Now suddenly in true bus style theres a ton of well quialified coaches turned up at once.

Cockerill has a very solid cv including time in France and now in the England coaching set up. His personality might count against him, but the again it didnt Jones.

Borthwick is very well regarded as a rugby brain and has the credentials as a captain and leader. His time in England was generally very well regarded and now hes adding head coacxh to his cv ...if he turns Tigers good start into trophies/euro finals he will be very much in the frame.

Baxter has an unrivalled club CV, but lacks any experience outside England or in an international team. Could be seen as just a club man.

Shaun Edwards has a huge amount of international experience and would help bring in influences form outside England. Probably the best qualified of the lot even if he lacks recent head coach experience.

Gustard looked a possible contender not so long ago, although probably needs to get a head coach job somewhere again.

Dean Richards not even worth a mention even if it hadnt been for bloodgate.

I believe Baxter has worked with England squads from time to time but he's been a one club man forever.
'It was announced on 26 March 2013 that Baxter would join the England coaching team for the summer tour to Argentina and Uruguay.'
Could be OK, certainly much respected although Exeter have not been adapting to changes so well of late.

McCall or O'Shea might also make it on to the long list.

Alex Sanderson?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Actually....having said all that....

No i think hes a brilliant solution...ill be gutted but for the best of England and all that...please take him...

i don’t think most England supporters would want to deprive you of a club legend.

Why not Andy Farrell supported by Shaun Edwards? I appreciate they are both 'Northern' and ex rugby league, but they both seem to be doing well in their current jobs.

I wouldn't moan about Rob Baxter or Conor O'Shea in a Director of Rugby role.

Sharkey06 wrote:Why not Andy Farrell supported by Shaun Edwards?  I appreciate they are both 'Northern' and ex rugby league, but they both seem to be doing well in their current jobs.

I wouldn't moan about Rob Baxter or Conor O'Shea in a Director of Rugby role.

Yeah yet another! He was toast at the time Jones got the job but during that period has restored and enhanced his reputation.

O Shea is already in that role or the equivalent anyway, the old job they invented so Rob Andrew could fail upwards. Id fancy he would prefer the easy life of that backseat role without all the stress drama and short lifespan the England head coach role can bring (plus he wont have coached anything for quite a few years by the time the world cups rocked round).

It really is a great generation of English coaches, the barrier to cross is to get a SANZAR job and be taken seriously down there. In some ways the constant churn of assistants over the past couple of decades has maybe helped develop these careers.

Farrell is a funny one I guess. The gig in Ireland seems to be finally working out. (they look excellent if still over dependent on Sexton). When he was with England he seemed a remarkable presence and a fantastic speaker, but I am not altogether convinced that he always backed up the words with deeds. Times change though.

lostinwales wrote:Farrell is a funny one I guess. The gig in Ireland seems to be finally working out. (they look excellent if still over dependent on Sexton). When he was with England he seemed a remarkable presence and a fantastic speaker, but I am not altogether convinced that he always backed up the words with deeds. Times change though.

From memory the Burgess fiasco was his pet project, and always questions over his influences on his sons selectio . Also quite a bit of falling out with the dressing room (partly due to Burgess!) toward the end. Maybe hes learned from that (plus theres not so many Irish qualified league players out there!) but cant really argue with his credentials now. Townsend was quite honest in his prematch interview talking about how much experience and a long run in the job had helped him learn and develop, happy to admit past failings. Post 2023 England too might look dependant on an ageing fly half, wonder if Andy will be happy to move on from him if he got the job.

lostinwales wrote:Farrell is a funny one I guess. The gig in Ireland seems to be finally working out. (they look excellent if still over dependent on Sexton). When he was with England he seemed a remarkable presence and a fantastic speaker, but I am not altogether convinced that he always backed up the words with deeds. Times change though.

Think Farrell is an obvious choice once his son is retired. Ironically I think his perfect on field coaching lieutenant would be Lancaster, it is him that has got Leinster ticking so well, which is basically the Ireland team. Borthwick and Edwards would add to the ticket but can’t see either of them wanting anything but the top job.

Armchairexpert wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Farrell is a funny one I guess. The gig in Ireland seems to be finally working out. (they look excellent if still over dependent on Sexton). When he was with England he seemed a remarkable presence and a fantastic speaker, but I am not altogether convinced that he always backed up the words with deeds. Times change though.

Think Farrell is an obvious choice once his son is retired. Ironically I think his perfect on field coaching lieutenant would be Lancaster, it is him that has got Leinster ticking so well, which is basically the Ireland team. Borthwick and Edwards would add to the ticket but can’t see either of them wanting anything but the top job.

Good point about Farrell Sr. not being considered until Farrell Jr. is no longer playing or out of the reckoning.  

EJ has shown the ability to turn things around.  But can he do it more than once with the same team?  Is the England position the longest time he has spent in one position?

I think a need to turn things around suggests England are in some kind of crisis state. Whereas they have just lost narrowly to away to the best scottish team of recent times with some key players out. A second string side knocked off a solid set of results in the autumn.

The last 6 nations was bad granted but its a bit early to be writing this one off altogether. Sure there's work to be done but this is still early days for the squad refresh.

They'll need to Match the pace, aggression and physicality Ireland and France are showing today