English 6 Nations

First topic message reminder :

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jan/05/six-nations-rugby-covid-rob-baxter

A potential answer to a potential problem. Baxter has said that if there is a risk of cancellations or playing in front of 1 man and his dog you may as well play all the games in England.

I suppose an interesting suggestion. If they could agree a slice of revenue from whichever grounds would host along with some teams giving up home advantage would people want to see this? It doesn't reduce the risk at all, merely increases it surely, gives England an advantage. It's unlikely the Government will bring in further restrictions as their hands are tied by the back benchers so reduces the risk of last minute changes. Just a big melting pot of cross contamination.


'Rob Baxter, Exeter’s director of rugby, believes that playing this season’s Six Nations in one country has “got to be better than cancelling it”.

The tournament is due to kick off in Dublin and Edinburgh on 5 February but currently finds itself shrouded in uncertainty. Under current Welsh Government restrictions imposed due to the pandemic and, specifically, the omicron variant, Wales would have to play scheduled home games against Scotland, France and Italy behind closed doors. Scotland are in a similar position for games at Murrayfield, while it has been reported that Wales could consider moving their home against Scotland, France and Italy to England.

Financial implications of behind-closed-doors home games for the Welsh Rugby Union would be significant. They faced an identical situation for last season’s tournament, with the shutters being down for matches against Ireland and England. Full crowds were, however, allowed at the Principality Stadium for Wales’ recent Autumn Nations Series before fresh restrictions took effect from Boxing Day.

Capacity crowds are currently allowed in England, provided spectators can prove full vaccination status or provide a negative lateral flow test. Against such a backdrop, playing the whole competition – it takes place across five weekends between early February and mid-March – in one country with permitted crowds has also been mooted in some quarters.

“The whole beauty of the Six Nations has been that change of environment, that change of weather conditions, going to play in Scotland, Wales, Ireland – those are the great challenges,” said Baxter. “That’s what makes the Six Nations such a great competition to win. You’ve seen French teams in that one week they can beat anyone in the world in Paris, and then the next week it doesn’t go quite so well in Cardiff. That’s the beauty of the tournament, that’s what from a rugby perspective I am sure we would all want to see happen.

“That said, we can’t all sit here and pretend the world is in an ideal place at the moment. For the national bodies, their responsibility goes beyond the professional sport, it goes right down to grassroots rugby, so if playing the tournament provides a level of income that cancelling it or no crowds doesn’t create, then we’ve got to look at the next best scenario. If the next best scenario is playing it in one country, where you can have sellout crowds, you can raise some revenue and you can keep that income stream going for all the bodies, then it’s got to be better than cancelling it.


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“I think with every sporting body, it’s revenue that is the biggest thing that has been damaged, so anything that can keep revenue online has got to be preferable to just binning things for a season,” Baxter added. “We’ve all had to try and find a way to keep going, to try and keep revenue coming in. It’s the same with any business, you’ve got to explore those options.”

GeordieFalcon wrote:They'll need to Match the pace, aggression and physicality Ireland and France are showing today

It was an impressive showing from both sides that's for sure.

France to me look to be still improving from an already very good side. The young players they are bringing through such as Woki, Jaminet and Villiere just seem to improve them further. By 2023 they could be favourites for a home RWC.

Doris, Keenan and now Hansen have filled some holes for Ireland and made them more rounded. Their three centre options of Aki, Ringrose and Henshaw today are a mile ahead of what England have with Manu absent. Ryan, Bierne and Henderson are 3 fantastic second rows too. Frankly, I'd pick Baird ahead of Isiekwe and Ewels as well. The contrast between those centre and second row options compared to England's with all the unavailable players is stark.

I'm a touch skeptical about Porter as a scrummager at LH still. Though I think he's terrific around the park and understand the shift with Furlong at TH I'm just not convinced yet. Carberry also plays a lot deeper than Sexton which can limit their threat in attack sometimes when Sexton is crocked. They are two relatively small weaknesses in a very strong side though.

If (it's a big if) England could get a decent number of Lawes, Kruis, Launchbury, Hill, Underhill, Farrell, Manu, May and Watson back then I think there is the making of a very strong England side.

1.Marler 2.George 3.Sinckler 4.Itoje 5.Kruis 6.Lawes 7.Curry 8.Dombrandt
9.Youngs 10.Smith 11.May 12.Tuilagi 13.Slade 14.Watson 15.Steward

16.Cowan-Dickie 17.Genge 18.Stuart 19.Launchbury 20.Underhill 21.Quirke 22.Farrell 23.Marchant

That sort of side I look at and think it could be very good indeed. So many players are absent currently though and I just struggle to see most of the replacements stepping up. I rate Malins but just don't quite see him as an international wing. Ewels doesn't convince at all. I think Isiekwe is a good player but nothing on Kruis or Lawes. Similar that I rate Ludlam for instance but just don't think he offers close to what Underhill can when fully fit.

Youngs was nowhere near as good as Randall today. His passes were way over Smith’s head almost every time. I would much rather see Randall and Quirke.

Poorfour wrote:Youngs was nowhere near as good as Randall today. His passes were way over Smith’s head almost every time. I would much rather see Randall and Quirke.

Lack of control from Randall, if Eddie stays true to form the nice passing game will be overlooked because of it. One contestable kick during the first half the rest were off target and badly shanked into touch. For a side that don't like to overplay and use the kicking game for territory it doesn't work. Of course this is Eddie so a curve ball isn't out of the question but I'd not want to be kicking to the Welsh back three like Randall kicked to Italy today.

Quirke is unlucky, he looked really sharp for Sale last weekend and looks the most likely to unseat Youngs from the first team. His kicking game is normally strong and he's a good attacking threat.

Was it my poor hearing (I did have my ear trumpet out) or did the commentator keep calling Malins "Malions"?

I hope Lawes is fit for the next game, Itoje and either Hill or Isiekwe as locks. Lawes, Curry, Dombrandt is a nice back row. Not sure if Lawes will be match fit though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Youngs was nowhere near as good as Randall today. His passes were way over Smith’s head almost every time. I would much rather see Randall and Quirke.

Lack of control from Randall, if Eddie stays true to form the nice passing game will be overlooked because of it. One contestable kick during the first half the rest were off target and badly shanked into touch. For a side that don't like to overplay and use the kicking game for territory it doesn't work. Of course this is Eddie so a curve ball isn't out of the question but I'd not want to be kicking to the Welsh back three like Randall kicked to Italy today.

Quirke is unlucky, he looked really sharp for Sale last weekend and looks the most likely to unseat Youngs from the first team. His kicking game is normally strong and he's a good attacking threat.

The big question is whether Eddie sees Randall as an RWC project in the way that he sees Smith. Of the scrum halves Smith has worked with at international level, Randall has given him the service that best suits his game - lightning quick ball and a running threat that holds opposition defences for a fraction of a second. Kicking is something he can work on - but he will need the game time to do it.

This is the danger of Eddie's approach of making wholesale changes mid-cycle. Last time it maybe mattered less because the changes weren't to the spine of the team, but here he's trying to change the whole playing style (while also being hampered by injury and COVID). My guess is that he's outlined his plan to the RFU and they are aligned with the idea of losing a few games in 2022 as they build towards 2023. I also suspect that the "utility player" thing is a very deliberate strategy: he is expecting that with COVID in particular the risk of short term absences from the squad is going to be a major factor in the RWC, and he is prepping for a scenario in which a key player might be out for a week and he needs someone else to be able to fill in rather than replace them in the squad.

We should be ready for more ups and downs, but put it in the context of the longer term goal.

For me Quirke and Mitchell are the two standout 9s in the Prem at the moment. Both have a running threat, Mitchell in particular is deadly if he sees an iota of space, both are good box kickers of the ball, Quirke has the edge here, Mitchell tending to go a bit long sometimes. Both have quick long passes and the speed to be at the breakdown quickly. Mitchell is prone to the odd brain fart or I would have him above Quirke, also he is not used to playing with a "Smith" type player, both Biggar and Grayson are "Farrell" types.

Defensively Mitchell is sound, a bit like Ford, he will make the tackle, but tends to give ground to the bigger guys, having said that me took VdM out a couple of times a few weeks ago in the Warriors game when moved to the wing due to running out of backs on the bench. I haven't seen enough of Quirke to comment on his defence.

Well not for this 6 nations but Jack Willis returns for wasps next month. No guarantee he returns to his previous form and there must be some psychological damage in an area of the ruck which his clear strength. But fantastic news for him as a person.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well not for this 6 nations but Jack Willis returns for wasps next month. No guarantee he returns to his previous form and there must be some psychological damage in an area of the ruck which his clear strength. But fantastic news for him as a person.

Was a real shame for Willis to score within a few minutes of coming on in first game for England, then to go off injured a few minutes later. For that short amount of time he must have thought the sky was the limit.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well not for this 6 nations but Jack Willis returns for wasps next month. No guarantee he returns to his previous form and there must be some psychological damage in an area of the ruck which his clear strength. But fantastic news for him as a person.

Willis could be something special. His ruck work combined with strong carrying is a rare combination. I'd absolutely love to see Willis and Curry on either flank at some point.

I do think he needs to become more selective of when he does and doesn't attack the breakdown. Depending on field position and the game situation the risk of getting pinged sometimes outweighs the potential gain of the turnover. That is true of many young opensides who are as dangerous over the ball as him.

Hopefully he can get back to his best and make an England return over the summer.

Assuming Underhill recovers from his latest injury England should have enough flankers to not worry about picking a proper 8 again for the summer

Just heard Mark Wilsons retired so at least thats one selection argument we wont have to go through again.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well not for this 6 nations but Jack Willis returns for wasps next month. No guarantee he returns to his previous form and there must be some psychological damage in an area of the ruck which his clear strength. But fantastic news for him as a person.

Well as a wasps fan that is brilliant news. A back row with Willis bros plus barbeary is some fearsome unit. With Vincent Koch signing and two decent second rows like launchers and stook, could be a difficult pack to handle.

Is Joe Cockanasiga is he still playing or has had to retire through injurie?

majesticimperialman wrote:Is Joe Cockanasiga is he still playing or has had to retire through injurie?

Article yesterday said Cokanasiga and Cipriani are back in training.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/2022/02/14/gallagher-premiership-rugby-round-17-preview/

Cokanasiga's injuries came a brutal time for his development. Especially for a winger as they tend to peak younger. He's missed out on near enough 3 years of development since the 2019 RWC. He's always been an incredibly dangerous, powerful runner but there were clear weaknesses in his game that he could have had time to work on and improve so much since 2019. Instead he's spent most of that time on the physio bench. A real shame.

The availability of more players for the Wales game opens up a number of options for England.
Launchbury, Lawes, Tuilagi & Ludlam
Were all mentioned by Eddy & all could come straight in as starters.

Im not sure if Barbeary is quite there yet but both he & Odogwu scored a brace over the weekend & must be close to.

Gooseberry wrote:Assuming Underhill recovers from his latest injury England should have enough flankers to not worry about picking a proper 8 again for the summer

Just heard Mark Wilsons retired so at least thats one selection argument we wont have to go through again.

I read a report that we might not see him again this season due to the number of head injures hes had...enforced longer layoff.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The availability of more players for the Wales game opens up a number of options for England.
Launchbury, Lawes, Tuilagi & Ludlam
Were all mentioned by Eddy & all could come straight in as starters.

Im not sure if Barbeary is quite there yet but both he & Odogwu scored a brace over the weekend & must be close to.

To be fair he could trip over his shoe laces walking on the pitch and be out for another few months....

Jones on Curry....

“Tom (Curry) deserves a medal because I think he played 60 minutes having done no training this week. He basically did a ten minute warm up on Friday because he’s been in bed with tonsillitis”.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jones on Curry....

“Tom (Curry) deserves a medal because I think he played 60 minutes having done no training this week. He basically did a ten minute warm up on Friday because he’s been in bed with tonsillitis”.

He just got swapped with his twin and nobody noticed.

That would explain why he got subbed (for Chessum)

Rugby Fan wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is Joe Cockanasiga is he still playing or has had to retire through injurie?

Article yesterday said Cokanasiga and Cipriani are back in training.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/2022/02/14/gallagher-premiership-rugby-round-17-preview/

With Cipriani back training again, then the last two 10s to defeat the Springboks will be playing!

This is probably not the right thread for this and I may have lost track on the theme, but what is the status of succession planning post the WC for EJ ?
The current coaching staff don't look like candidates.

When the talk is on the futures of young contenders for the England side, surely a new coaching ticket in eighteen months time will have a huge bearing on players careers.

What odds on a Farrell/Edward's combo ? Pretty sure if the RFU offered the roles both as proud englishmen would find it pretty impossible to turn down the opportunity.

It probably wont happen but an interesting prospect nonetheless.

Recwatcher16 wrote:This is probably not the right thread for this and I may have lost track on the theme, but what is the status of succession planning post the WC for EJ ?
The current coaching staff don't look like candidates.

When the talk is on the futures of young contenders for the England side, surely a new coaching ticket in eighteen months time will have a huge bearing on players careers.

What odds on a Farrell/Edward's combo ? Pretty sure if the RFU offered the roles both as proud englishmen would find it pretty impossible to turn down the opportunity.

It probably wont happen but an interesting prospect nonetheless.

I don't hear anything about succession planning. Especially as the RFU (quite mistakenly) doesn't include me in their planning.

Farrell-Edwards does seem an attractive proposition (not visually attractive, mind). But someone else raised the thought that likely Farrell, Sr. would not be offered the job until Farrell, Jr. is out of the England picture. That makes sense to me.

doctor_grey wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:This is probably not the right thread for this and I may have lost track on the theme, but what is the status of succession planning post the WC for EJ ?
The current coaching staff don't look like candidates.

When the talk is on the futures of young contenders for the England side, surely a new coaching ticket in eighteen months time will have a huge bearing on players careers.

What odds on a Farrell/Edward's combo ? Pretty sure if the RFU offered the roles both as proud englishmen would find it pretty impossible to turn down the opportunity.

It probably wont happen but an interesting prospect nonetheless.

I don't hear anything about succession planning.  Especially as the RFU (quite mistakenly) doesn't include me in their planning.  

Farrell-Edwards does seem an attractive proposition (not visually attractive, mind).  But someone else raised the thought that likely Farrell, Sr. would not be offered the job until Farrell, Jr. is out of the England picture.  That makes sense to me.

That makes sense to me too - Farrell jnr will be 32 at next RWC, so unlikely will be part of the plan for the next WC cycle and nobody would be surprised if Owen went straight into coaching at Saracens.
The more I think about it, the better the odds seem to be, for lack of other obvious candidates - maybe wishful thinking. I don't think Borthwick would be tempted.

It just struck me with talk of players establishing themselves in the England set up, may become premature with potentially a new coach in 18 months time.

Tuilagi back in the squad

Eddie Jones wrote:"Just having a power running centre would give us a different option," Jones added.
"Everything we're doing now is about trying to create opportunities through finesse and that's through good running lines and passing.
"But to have someone who can take you forward quickly and engage two or three defenders then allows you to try and finesse extra space, which would be really useful to us.
"We've had three centres play and I think Sladey has been very good. Joe Marchant and Elliot Daly have had their moments, but we need to get more out of that and we understand that."

Couldn't get much more hones than that to be fair.

Manu, Lawes, Launchbury and Ludlam all back for Wales would be big boosts. Second row, centre and wing looks far from ideal at present. So all in all those are very useful returnees.

Tom Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Maro Itoje
Joe Launchbury
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart

Backs

Elliot Daly
George Ford
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Jack Nowell
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Ben Youngs


Puts to bed any hope Youngs will ever be dropped.

That's only 22 players, unless I am miscounting... at least one hooker missing, and probably a lock.

king_carlos wrote:

Eddie Jones wrote:"Just having a power running centre would give us a different option," Jones added.
"Everything we're doing now is about trying to create opportunities through finesse and that's through good running lines and passing.
"But to have someone who can take you forward quickly and engage two or three defenders then allows you to try and finesse extra space, which would be really useful to us.
"We've had three centres play and I think Sladey has been very good. Joe Marchant and Elliot Daly have had their moments, but we need to get more out of that and we understand that."

Couldn't get much more hones than that to be fair.

Manu, Lawes, Launchbury and Ludlam all back for Wales would be big boosts. Second row, centre and wing looks far from ideal at present. So all in all those are very useful returnees.

Taking the line in bold above about having a power running centre, why have Farrell, Jr playing in the centres at all?

Barbeary, Chessum and LCD have been cut off the forwards list there I think?

It's a 25 man squad for a 5 day training camp.

Simmonds (hip issue), Lawes (HIA protocols) and Hill (foot) are also with that 25 man squad for rehab rather than training.

Several players being released for some club game time. From the recent match day squads Marler and Isiekwe have been released.

Interestingly Ludlam isn't listed as one of those with the group rehabbing or in the training squad, so he might be fit and released to get game time with Saints at the weekend.

Sorry. fat fingers.

doctor_grey wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Eddie Jones wrote:"Just having a power running centre would give us a different option," Jones added.
"Everything we're doing now is about trying to create opportunities through finesse and that's through good running lines and passing.
"But to have someone who can take you forward quickly and engage two or three defenders then allows you to try and finesse extra space, which would be really useful to us.
"We've had three centres play and I think Sladey has been very good. Joe Marchant and Elliot Daly have had their moments, but we need to get more out of that and we understand that."

Couldn't get much more hones than that to be fair.

Manu, Lawes, Launchbury and Ludlam all back for Wales would be big boosts. Second row, centre and wing looks far from ideal at present. So all in all those are very useful returnees.

Taking the line in bold above about having a power running centre, why have Farrell, Jr playing in the centres at all?

At full strength I'd guess Farrell and Tuilagi would be the centres still.

Seems fairly clear that rightly or wrongly they don't think the centres other than Manu capable of running those crash ball lines at Prem level are good enough to do so effectively in internationals. Lawrence and Atkinson are the two tried. Judging by recent selections they'd rather go without a power runner than pick one they don't think is good enough.

Personally I don't think our forwards carry consistently enough to forgo that carry in the centres. When the Ford-Faz-JJ midfield worked so well we usually had Mako and Billy carrying in the forwards. At their best they were very effective at getting over the gain line around the fringes, hence turning slow ball into quick ball consistently. The forwards just don't have that same outlet now, as such I think the backs do need that a crash ball carrier.

king_carlos wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Eddie Jones wrote:"Just having a power running centre would give us a different option," Jones added.
"Everything we're doing now is about trying to create opportunities through finesse and that's through good running lines and passing.
"But to have someone who can take you forward quickly and engage two or three defenders then allows you to try and finesse extra space, which would be really useful to us.
"We've had three centres play and I think Sladey has been very good. Joe Marchant and Elliot Daly have had their moments, but we need to get more out of that and we understand that."

Couldn't get much more hones than that to be fair.

Manu, Lawes, Launchbury and Ludlam all back for Wales would be big boosts. Second row, centre and wing looks far from ideal at present. So all in all those are very useful returnees.

Taking the line in bold above about having a power running centre, why have Farrell, Jr playing in the centres at all?

At full strength I'd guess Farrell and Tuilagi would be the centres still.

Seems fairly clear that rightly or wrongly they don't think the centres other than Manu capable of running those crash ball lines at Prem level are good enough to do so effectively in internationals. Lawrence and Atkinson are the two tried. Judging by recent selections they'd rather go without a power runner than pick one they don't think is good enough.

Personally I don't think our forwards carry consistently enough to forgo that carry in the centres. When the Ford-Faz-JJ midfield worked so well we usually had Mako and Billy carrying in the forwards. At their best they were very effective at getting over the gain line around the fringes, hence turning slow ball into quick ball consistently. The forwards just don't have that same outlet now, as such I think the backs do need that a crash ball carrier.

Not only were Mako and Billy both very good at getting over the gain line they also had soft hands so could link play more like opensides than the bulldozers they were.

JJ did a really good job over that period of time of running clever lines back against the defence. Made it very difficult to drift off him and reinforce the wide channels where our very quick back three were waiting. I was hoping to see that from Marchant but he's been a bit quiet so far.

Doesnt Odogwu offer that more direct carrying option after Manu...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Tom Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Maro Itoje
Joe Launchbury
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart

Backs

Elliot Daly
George Ford
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Jack Nowell
Harry Randall
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Ben Youngs


Puts to bed any hope Youngs will ever be dropped.

That interesting one. I saw WOL try to claim he is a poach, despite being born and brought up in England and having no Welsh heritage. As far as I can see, it is entirely based on the fact that he went to university there! I hope nobody tells them that JPR Williams went to university in London...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Doesnt Odogwu offer that more direct carrying option after Manu...

I think we need to wait for the summer to see if he's still in the plans. He really got injured at the worst possible time

Cumbrian wrote:


That interesting one.  I saw WOL try to claim he is a poach, despite being born and brought up in England and having no Welsh heritage.  As far as I can see, it is entirely based on the fact that he went to university there!  I hope nobody tells them that JPR Williams went to university in London...

That's pretty funny. The guy literally isn't Welsh Qualified.

They were looking for long lost Welsh grandparents when Cardiff were interested in him, but came up blank. He got an offer from them anyway iirc, but chose to sign for a prem team instead.

So the usual Samoan sized universal sticky plaster has been applied to England's back line issues. Would have been nice to have seen one or two of the speedsters in that selection.

It is worth remembering that there are a lot of new players, even though Smith and Steward already seem like old hands.

i have no faith in Manu being able to make two consecutive England games let alone being the answer up to the World Cup.

I just hope the summer tour unearths a couple of gems in the midfield...Odowgu, Kelly and Ojomoh being the obvious 3 initially.

Ojomoh looks the obvious candidate from what I've saw of him, he looks very very classy.

I'm not really getting the hype with Odogwu, I don't see him being an Int player but happy to be proved otherwise.

Kelly....meh, looks solid enough. He'd need something outside him as he doesn't offer that much in terms of attack. Could be a slow burner.

You rate any Leicester players Pooly?

I agree Geordie those 3 look the most obvious to me. I'd like see Marchant play with someone other than Slade though and have a run. Lawrence to me was cast aside too early.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Ojomoh looks the obvious candidate from what I've saw of him, he looks very very classy.

I'm not really getting the hype with Odogwu, I don't see him being an Int player but happy to be proved otherwise.

Kelly....meh, looks solid enough. He'd need something outside him as he doesn't offer that much in terms of attack. Could be a slow burner.

He may or may not be international class Sgt, thats to be determined i guess.
I think alot of people see him as an explosive back who can get through players, maybe not as powerful as Manu, but closer than our current lot. With no Cokasaniga etc we all see the need for a more heavy duty carrier in there somewhere.

Similar to why people like Radwan who offers a more broken field runner than a sheer out and out straight line running winger.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You rate any Leicester players Pooly?

I agree Geordie those 3 look the most obvious to me. I'd like see Marchant play with someone other than Slade though and have a run. Lawrence to me was cast aside too early.

I agree, he's only 22...hes not done with yet.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You rate any Leicester players Pooly?

I agree Geordie those 3 look the most obvious to me. I'd like see Marchant play with someone other than Slade though and have a run. Lawrence to me was cast aside too early.

Not as highly as Tigers fans, but sure. Martin is great, I'm a big Ford fan. Genge is quality in the prem, not really seen this form for England so much.

Tigers have less "stars" these days but work great as a unit.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You rate any Leicester players Pooly?

I agree Geordie those 3 look the most obvious to me. I'd like see Marchant play with someone other than Slade though and have a run. Lawrence to me was cast aside too early.

Not as highly as Tigers fans, but sure. Martin is great, I'm a big Ford fan. Genge is quality in the prem, not really seen this form for England so much.

Tigers have less "stars" these days but work great as a unit.

Kelly's not flashy but he gets the job done. 7 carries for 42 metres Vs Saints on Friday night, 12 tackles 1 missed. Only Weise and Wells had better tackle stats across both teams, as a comparison Dingwall was 10 tackles and 3 missed and 7 carries for 38m. His passing and kicking game is slowly emerging a bit more but does need more development. Probably a player for after the next world cup.

You know what will happen....

Next world cup cycle ...we'll have top class 9's, 10's and 12's galore....and no props etc...

GeordieFalcon wrote:You know what will happen....

Next world cup cycle ...we'll have top class 9's, 10's and 12's galore....and no props etc...

To be fair the production line for 10s looks good with Marcus Smith, Finn Smith and Orlando Bailey all getting regular game time at Prem level. George Ford is still in his 20s as well so there's no real need to ditch him.

Props looks decent enough. Only Marler is over 30 of the current preferred options and then not by much. Stuart, Rodd and Heyes should all develop significantly more as they move into their prime years. There's some options behind them.

9s and 12s still look a little light though...

Having lots of players in one position but less in others is something most sides go through to be fair.

Look at ABs at the moment with their ludicrous wing options but struggling to really sort their back row. Even with the NZ conveyor belt of rugby talent there's a good argument they still haven't replaced the all round game Kaino added at 6. Kaino left NZ after the 2017 Lions tour.

The Boks centre partnership of de Allende and Am is absolutely fantastic but the reserve centres in their squad for the AIs were Steyn and Kriel. They'd leap at some more centre depth but then their second row options are of course ludicrous. At TH they now have Malherbe, Koch and Nyakane which almost feels immoral when we just watched Will Stuart start a Six Nations game.

With England I'd take our fly-half depth over the Boks any day though. The falloff from Pollard to Jantjies is pretty massive. Smith, Ford and even Farrell, who I accept has weaknesses as a 10, is excellent depth in a key position. LH, hooker and openside are nicely stacked as well.

Inside centre and TH on the other hand direly need some depth.

If JVP and Quirke continue their development we are OK for 9's.

U20 forwards always seem so huge but they don't always come through. It does seem as if Heyes is down as the next big thing at TH.

He's been a slow developer in internationals but I think Genge is looking increasingly the part. Him taking on a leadership role seems to have made a big difference. And that pass to George at the weekend was a thing of beauty. Just hope the move back to Bristol doesn't mess him up.

This video shows NZ rugby star Ruby Tui talking with England's Emily Scarratt, and interviewer Elma Smit. Women's rugby isn't to everyone's taste but bear with me. Starting at the 13:30 mark, Tui says when she's in the zone in matches, time seems to slow down. She describes a moment when she appears to have a lengthy conversation with a teamate about the next move which, in reality, happened in a split second.



Scaratt knows exactly what Tui means, and they then talk about how that kind of telepathy develops, whether through playing a lot together, or by being certain type of characters.

I can't really remember too many passages of play from England lately which make you think our players are on that kind of wavelength, and I wonder whether there's really enough time to develop it ahead of the next World Cup.

Genge has been good for England IMO. His eye catching carrying hasn't transferred over into internationals which I think is why he gets some criticism. His set-piece has been solid though, his fringe defence (really important for props with England's reliance on an aggressive rush defence close to the ruck) is now very good and he's improved his handling a lot so can now shift the ball to other forwards close to contact as Mako used to and Sinckler does.

I still think Marler is the slightly better player overall and would start him but Genge has been strong. LH is a long way from England's issue.