Premiership R 13

First topic message reminder :

Friday
Bristol v Sale

Saturday
Quins v Exeter
Newcastle v Northampton
Saracens v Gloucester

Sunday
Bath v Worcester
Wasps v Leicester

Other than the Reffell yellow Tigers have had almost everything in their favour and fluffed their chances so fair. Lack of execution which isn't usually the case under Borthwick.

Frustrating and Tigers need to switch on. All the forward unavailability today mean we won't have the same bench impact as other games this season when the likes of van Staden, Wiese, Martin, Reffell, Chessum, Wells, Leatigaga, etc have variously been getting launched from the bench.

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I had no idea Potter was an Aussie....thought he had come through rhw academy

Potter is England born, moved to Australia when he was 12, came back to join Tigers. He came to prominence through good performance for Sydney Uni in the Shute Shield.

Very similar story with Porter who's also England born but moved to Australia young and came back to the UK when Tigers signed him.

Ah right...thanks for the info

Wasps are being badly let down by their setpiece, but it looks like Genge has just let Tigers down badly

Good break from Crossdale that. He's a good player if he can stay on the pitch. Interesting to see him at fullback rather than wing.

Tigers have had a lot in their favour this half but just aren't converting possession, field position and penalties into points.

A good break from Scott comes to nothing as well. It's been a very frustrating half.

Why Gengey. Why.

If Wasps score now it will sum up the lack of execution in Tigers play this half.

We don't have much in the way of forward subs to up the intensity in the second or back row. The young props in Heyes and Whitcombe will have a great opportunity to step-up.

Youngs and Moroni should enjoy this game though. I'd say the holes in the Wasps defence that Tigers haven't full taken advantage of are around the fringes and targeting either side of Spink. That's where Youngs and Moroni respectively are very good at attacking.

Meanwhile Bath playing against 14 men almost from the start manage to concede 3 tries so far and are losing at half time ... I thought they might finally break their duck this weekend and have them by 1 on Superbru so let's see if Wuss can keep them out with 14 men for the rest of the match.

Heaf wrote:Meanwhile Bath playing against 14 men almost from the start manage to concede 3 tries so far and are losing at half time ... I thought they might finally break their duck this weekend and have them by 1 on Superbru so let's see if Wuss can keep them out with 14 men for the rest of the match.

Bath are really horrible and are watching this mess, as well. After all, why watch good teams play?
I also thought this was their game to win and took them in Superbru (also by a point). Like we say after surgery: "oops"

I missed the 20 minutes of the second half as I was on the way home so just had radio comms.

Sounded on comms like Tigers just kept making it hard for themselves. This would be a very frustrating first loss of the season. We had every chance to win this in the first half.

Genge has Alo on toast.

Tigers need to capitalise. That clinical execution has been completely absent today. Tigers just need to finish a single chance.

That's cynical from Hougaard. If the ref has adjudged that  to be ruck formed that must be a yellow for killing the ball.

Another scrum, this time 5 metres out.

Healey really is a muppet isn't he. Advocating faking an injury now. It's frustrating with Austin as when he shuts his mouth for most the game, then fleetingly offers input to the areas he understands he can be somewhat insightful. Just loves the sound of his voice too much. Which is a dangerous characteristic when your IQ has always been lower than you age.

I'm usually from the camp of even poor Premiership refereeing averaging out over a game as inconsistency goes one way or another. As such I try my best not to comment on ref performance. As a former rugby ref myself I'm very sympathetic to how difficult a game it is to officiate.

That 6 minute period around the 70 minute mark absolutely infuriated me the though. No yellow from either the Hougaard killing the ball then multiple scrum infringements. No penalty try from the scrum where Heyes ruined Hislop and Wasps were still retreating when they splintered a metre from the line.

It was a dire performance from Tigers in a game they had every chance to win. The lack of carriers in the forwards just led to a lack of execution despite the possession, territory and penalty count in Tigers favour. Incredibly frustrating to watch.

By the time the next Premiership fixtures roll round we will hopefully have a few of the absent forwards back. Losing Liebenberg, Wiese, van Standen, Martin and Leatigaga in the forwards, compounded by Nadolo being absent in the backs is so much carrying to lose at once. It told today.

king_carlos wrote:I'm usually from the camp of even poor Premiership refereeing averaging out over a game as inconsistency goes one way or another. As such I try my best not to comment on ref performance. As a former rugby ref myself I'm very sympathetic to how difficult a game it is to officiate.

That 6 minute period around the 70 minute mark absolutely infuriated me the though. No yellow from either the Hougaard killing the ball then multiple scrum infringements. No penalty try from the scrum where Heyes ruined Hislop and Wasps were still retreating when they splintered a metre from the line.

Yeah that would have given me 2.5 points on Superbru  

Frustrated with that.

Can't begrudge wasps winning as Tigers we were pretty poor and looked tired for the first time this season.

Foley just didn't want to give anything in that last 10
- Scrum should have been a pen try as wasps just stood up after wheeling back.
- Ben Youngs try should have stood, he took it from the mark just like the one against us in the Bristol game.
- Wasps player at the end laying on the wrong side not moving, Foley had called them our all game, just not that one.
- Wasps players were sealing off all game

I know Tigers would have got some favorable decisions too, but I'm biased so won't mention them.

Foley did seem scared to make an error and did his best to give nothing. I wonder if this is on the back of DORs (notably Sanderson complaining about refs this weekend publicly). He blew up early as the Tigers scrum crossed the line and then pulled Youngs back very harshly. We won't mention the three yellow cards Wasps should have had.

What I would say was that this season we've been good at taking the ref out of the equation but today we just weren't good enough to do that. Attack lacked any real penetration with Wells fumbling at the line a couple of times and us badly missing Nadolo and the backrowers.

Wasps well you've got to tip your hat to their coaches for changing up their game at half time. They dominated the third quarter of the game and wrestled control of the scoreboard then hung on for dear life. Fair play to them it worked, both sides had players missing and Wasps found a way to still make things work for them.

The no pen try call was one of the more baffling ones. Wasps are flying backwards, one metre left, ball still at the base, Hislop stands up as Heyes is mullering him and it gets reset. Pretty bizarre.

Tigers played their last minute get of jail free cards against Sarries and Bristol though. We were fortunate in both those games that poor Tigers performances coincided with the opposition been rubbish too.

Wells looked knackered by the end last week, understandable when you check his minutes played, and similar in the second half here prior to substitution.

Tigers just couldn't get over the gain line consistently in early phase play. We are missing so many carriers that's unsurprising but frustrating.

Standard of refereeing has been very poor this season, in the games I've watched. I thought Genge was lucky to escape with a yellow for what was a strike against the head; a clear YC for a Wasps player killing the ball five metres out not given; clear penalty try not given; Youngs tapping the ball and scoring a perfectly good try not allowed either.

Foley and Tempest seem to be the least competent referees in the Premiership, in my view.

Dickson isn't much better.

As I've said probably over a hundred times on these forums rugby is a horrible game to officiate and I usually try not to mention the ref for that reason. I'm strongly of the opinion these things cancel out.

That 6-7 minute period just had so many clear errors in it at the business end of the game. Very frustrating.

The inconsistency in reffing across the Premiership has been an issue for a while now. It's really poor.

That starts with limited uptake in grassroots reffing. Getting young guys into it is near impossible as it's a largely thankless task. As such any young ref that shows slight aptitude usually gets promoted too quickly without the necessary experience. This leads to poor officiating, which leads to grief from players/coaches/fans which leads to it being an even more thankless task, hence limited participation, etc etc. On the spiral goes. It's a sad place for reffing to be and I'm not sure what will turn it around short of a significant cash investment from the RFU in a better pathway to make getting involved in reffing a more attractive prospect for prospective officials from a financial perspective.

I reffed for a while to a reasonable standard - not wanting to sound like an a**e just explaining where my views came from. I reffed Scottish National 1 and stood in as a touch judge of games at Scottish Premiership level for a handful of games prior to Super Six commencing, when the Scottish Prem was the highest level of rugby in Scotland below Edinburgh and Glasgow. I moved on from it when I decided it wasn't something I wanted to pursue full time and I just wasn't enjoying it enough anymore to keep doing at the weekend. It's a tough game to ref and only gets tougher from my experience.

Duty281 wrote:Standard of refereeing has been very poor this season, in the games I've watched. I thought Genge was lucky to escape with a yellow for what was a strike against the head; a clear YC for a Wasps player killing the ball five metres out not given; clear penalty try not given; Youngs tapping the ball and scoring a perfectly good try not allowed either.

Foley and Tempest seem to be the least competent referees in the Premiership, in my view.

Now now we can't discuss refereeing incompetence without mentioned Dickson though to be fair to him he has improved this season.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ow. Youd imagine the wasps pack isn't going to be enjoying scrums today.

Tomooga-Allen is immensely strong and can dominate less technical LHs but at 6'4" he's tall for a TH and astute scrummagers such as Genge can get him out of shape. He's a bit like a TH version of Andy Sheridan in that regard. Genge had hinging at that first scrum.

Cole gets West going back at the second scrum as well. I really rate West so that should be a good battle but perhaps not an even one if Genge and Montoya are on top next to him.

There are nearly 190 caps in that Tigers front row. The addition of Montoya has made the scrum even more dynamic.

Just finished watching on a delay but there was no West today hence my questioning of Wasps there.

Heaf wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I'm usually from the camp of even poor Premiership refereeing averaging out over a game as inconsistency goes one way or another. As such I try my best not to comment on ref performance. As a former rugby ref myself I'm very sympathetic to how difficult a game it is to officiate.

That 6 minute period around the 70 minute mark absolutely infuriated me the though. No yellow from either the Hougaard killing the ball then multiple scrum infringements. No penalty try from the scrum where Heyes ruined Hislop and Wasps were still retreating when they splintered a metre from the line.

Yeah that would have given me 2.5 points on Superbru  

Ref did say the reason was because the front rows were both up.

Didn't see who got potm but that game really turned with Wasps giving Barbeary the ball. Such a class player.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't see who got potm but that game really turned with Wasps giving Barbeary the ball. Such a class player.

Yeah the removal of Willis did give Barbeary a lot more freedom though I think he and Willis actually switched roles at half time as he started standing the in backfield and carrying a lot more in the second half having been fairly anonymous in the first. His prominence in the second half really highlighted what Tigers were missing.

Wow backs against the wall stuff but great win for Wasps.
We have a habit of raining on their parade.
I agree ref wasn’t great today but Genge could easily have seen a different colour card. A great player but really lets himself down at times.
Tigers should have been more clinical in the second half but 2 good defensive sets from Wasps did for them.
Cant wait to get our players back and draw a line under this season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't see who got potm but that game really turned with Wasps giving Barbeary the ball. Such a class player.

Yeah the removal of Willis did give Barbeary a lot more freedom though I think he and Willis actually switched roles at half time as he started standing the in backfield and carrying a lot more in the second half having been fairly anonymous in the first. His prominence in the second half really highlighted what Tigers were missing.

Willis really didn't do much. If there were any doubt about who is the most promising todays game will have done much to convince. He just has a real wise head on him rarely makes a wrong choice. And a surprisingly good kicking game. Juts a matter of time before GF calls for him to play 12.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ow. Youd imagine the wasps pack isn't going to be enjoying scrums today.

Tomooga-Allen is immensely strong and can dominate less technical LHs but at 6'4" he's tall for a TH and astute scrummagers such as Genge can get him out of shape. He's a bit like a TH version of Andy Sheridan in that regard. Genge had hinging at that first scrum.

Cole gets West going back at the second scrum as well. I really rate West so that should be a good battle but perhaps not an even one if Genge and Montoya are on top next to him.

There are nearly 190 caps in that Tigers front row. The addition of Montoya has made the scrum even more dynamic.

Just finished watching on a delay but there was no West today hence my questioning of Wasps there.

Apologies. Was West a late dropout then? He was definitely in the initial team announcement from Wasps on Friday.

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ow. Youd imagine the wasps pack isn't going to be enjoying scrums today.

Tomooga-Allen is immensely strong and can dominate less technical LHs but at 6'4" he's tall for a TH and astute scrummagers such as Genge can get him out of shape. He's a bit like a TH version of Andy Sheridan in that regard. Genge had hinging at that first scrum.

Cole gets West going back at the second scrum as well. I really rate West so that should be a good battle but perhaps not an even one if Genge and Montoya are on top next to him.

There are nearly 190 caps in that Tigers front row. The addition of Montoya has made the scrum even more dynamic.

Just finished watching on a delay but there was no West today hence my questioning of Wasps there.

Apologies. Was West a late dropout then? He was definitely in the initial team announcement from Wasps on Friday.

Yes he and Fifitia both dropped out late on. Replaced by Hislop and Cardall respectively.

Cheers Sam.

Don't know if this has been posted already?

'English club rugby is set to return to free-to-air television following the agreement of a new deal with ITV. At the start of this season there was widespread disappointment when the popular Channel 5 highlights show was axed but Premiership Rugby has now negotiated a fresh partnership with ITV until the end of the 2023-24 season.

There is a catch for viewers hoping to see full games on ITV every weekend, with the deal involving a mere four live matches this season plus the final on ITV4. Premiership officials, though, are delighted that their grand finale, for the first time in the competition’s history, will be shown on live free-to-air TV in tandem with BT Sport’s well-regarded coverage.

In each of the next two seasons, however, seven games including the final will be aired by ITV, organisers having apparently accepted that the abrupt disappearance of the sport from Channel 5 was a mistake which needed rectifying. It was the first time for 14 years that Premiership rugby had not been available on terrestrial television, with Craig Doyle and Martin Bayfield having presented their first ITV highlights show in 2007. The new weekly highlights show on ITV4 will now be fronted by David Flatman and Topsy Ojo.


Premiership Rugby’s new chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor hailed the deal as “great news for the league, our clubs, the supporters and the profile of rugby in England” and now hopes it will prove a springboard towards more widespread interest in the sport

“Our ambition is to grow the game and make Gallagher Premiership Rugby available to as many people as possible,” said Massie-Taylor. “BT Sport have done an amazing job in building the core Premiership Rugby TV audience and the ITV partnership allows us to expand our reach into the households of millions of other rugby fans. This season our average match audience on BT Sport has risen 30% year on year, which shows the potential.”

Last season’s final between Harlequins and Exeter Chiefs was among Twickenham’s most enthralling days and Massie-Taylor is seeking to make the 2022 final the most-watched fixture in the tournament’s history. “We believe we can achieve that with the match screened on both ITV4 and BT Sport,” he added. “It is also crucial for us to have a weekly highlights programme that is accessible to millions of people. This will allow us to showcase the best of Gallagher Premiership rugby to the widest possible audience.”

ITV’s first live game will see Sale Sharks playing host to the Premiership pacesetters Leicester Tigers on 30 January. (Guardian)

Is it on ITV Wales?

I would imagine so Mikey. I'd be surprised if they cut it out of the ITV4 programming for the Welsh feed.

Diamond confirmed as Wuss' DoR from now.