Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

It does seem that this cat video is pretty old. But, also oeople seem more upset about it then say, Chelsea having a player who killed someone when he was drink driving.

We are a nation of animal lovers, my mum was all in on Romanian rescue dogs, not so keen on Romanian people.
,

[incontinentia]

Al-Qaeda are an internationally recognised terrorist organisation, that includes the UN.

So the US military check the guy's Al Qaeda membership card, and then the green light is given for assassination?

Yes, these decisions are that simple.

You're a douche

Thank you.

So maybe we should just let the police in our countries decide who to punish and what sentences to give? After all, they "know" who's guilty, they never arrest or charge anyone in error...

What kind of argument is that? Ayman al-Zawahiri was the internationally recognised head of an designated terrorist organisation, this is not a case of national law and comparisons of that type are useless. Joe Biden hasn't made this decision on his own.

A fantastic argument, as it happens! You're in favour of America (world police) killing whoever they want, so why not allow domestic police forces to do it too. Save a lot of money on judges/solicitors/prisons etc. 

Also, hilarious how you condemn Saudi tyranny, while at the same time supporting a different type of tyranny.

[JuliusHMarx]

Who here is in favour of America killing whoever they want? No-one.

[Soul Requiem]

A fantastic argument, as it happens! You're in favour of America (world police) killing whoever they want, so why not allow domestic police forces to do it too. Save a lot of money on judges/solicitors/prisons etc. 

Also, hilarious how you condemn Saudi tyranny, while at the same time supporting a different type of tyranny.

I support anyone assassinating known heads of designated terrorist organisations. That doesn't somehow trickle down into domestic issues nor does it equate to a state killing whomever they wish, the two are very separate.

Yes I condemn the subjugation of citizens of any country, that isn't specific to Saudi Arabia nor is it again anything to do international terrorism. Whataboutery is nothing but an attempt to deflect the argument.

[Shotrock]

I usually stay away from these political topics, but I'll add my only thought/reaction to the matter:

I lost 3 friends on 9/11. All on a first name basis, one with two very young children.

This terrorist was integral to that act of war. In fact, I'm 100% certain he would have been happier killing 30,000 that day instead of just 3,000.

Should he have been 'given his day in court?' Yes, probably ... but I'm not one to stand on ceremony for someone who had no desire to seek judicial resolution even a little bit.

[McLaren]

As long as we are ok with Iraq taking out Tony Blair in London or George Bush in Texas then we can probably quite comfortably accept the decision to assassinate an al Qaeda guy who has broken international law.

[JuliusHMarx]

Did Blair and Bush act outside of any mandate given to them by the governments of their respective states? I'm no fan of either and question their morals, but to equate either of them with the head of a ruthless terrorist organisation is a bit pathetic.

[incontinentia]

Did Blair and Bush act outside of any mandate given to them by the governments of their respective states? I'm no fan of either and question their morals, but to equate either of them with the head of a ruthless terrorist organisation is a bit pathetic.

Its not really though. Bush (aided and abetted by his lapdog Blair) is responsible for factors more deaths and suffering than Al Qaeda.

[JuliusHMarx]

I'm not a Bush/Blair apologist - far from it - but was their intent to simply kill as many Iraqi civilians as possible because they didn't like Iraqi culture and beliefs?
If it were decided they had to stand trial for war crimes, then I would understand that, probably agree with it, but to equate them with the head of a terrorist organisation is simple-minded.

[incontinentia]

I'm not a Bush/Blair apologist - far from it - but was their intent to simply kill as many Iraqi civilians as possible because they didn't like Iraqi culture and beliefs?
If it were decided they had to stand trial for war crimes, then I would understand that, probably agree with it, but to equate them with the head of a terrorist organisation is simple-minded.

Personally I'm satisfied that Bush invaded Iraq on false pretences with little or no regard to the death, destruction and de-stabilisation it would inflict on the Middle East region. It should be easy enough to establish whether or not a country is developing nuclear weapons.

[JuliusHMarx]

Even then, there are established legal procedures in place to hold heads of state accountable for war crimes. You (and I) may argue Bush and Blair got away with it, but that is a different argument.

There is no law enforcement procedure available for the heads of terrorist organizations unless a) they give themselves up or b) the country where they take refuge gives them up.
Given that neither of those would happen in the case of Ayman al-Zawahiri, there is literally no legal mechanism in place to bring him to justice - he was outside of the law, by his own choosing. And that is why he was a targeted killing. Morally is it distasteful to me, but acceptable.

[pedro]

Al-Qaeda are an internationally recognised terrorist organisation, that includes the UN.

So the US military check the guy's Al Qaeda membership card, and then the green light is given for assassination?

Yes, these decisions are that simple.

You're a douche

Don’t tell Biden.

[JAS]

So IF you got an opportunity to go to one of the Tory leadership hustings and got the chance to ask each one a question, what would you ask? I would go for...

To Truss: So you clearly admire Thatcher and all she stood for...Do you also believe that there is no such thing as Society?

To Sunak: So how much do you think your father-in-laws company has benefitted from IR35 not being abandoned as the most small business destructive piece of tax legislation ever conceived? Is it more or less than you made as a Hedge Fund Manager during the 2008 Financial Crash?

Yes I know it's 2 questions to one and only one question to the other, I suppose that's because it would only take one question to bamboozle Truss.
Reporters/Journalists today, they just have no imagination or no inclination to watch would be leaders squirm uncomfortably.

[Duty281]

Thatcher did believe in society, it's a commonly misunderstood quote that needs to be looked at in full context to be understood.

[pedro]

I’m not sure any of these questions would deter potential supporters.

[JAS]

I’m not sure any of these questions would deter potential supporters.

I wouldn't expect the questions or answers to them to deter potential supporters in this current race trying to sucker up 0.5% of the total electorate comprising their current electorate in the leadership race. I'd suspect the answers would be a much more interesting play when replayed to the other 99.5% of the electorate that's not getting a say at the moment.

Having said that, both of them have already got some "awkward explanations" on some of the red meat they've thrown around in this contest that are wholly acceptable to predominantly ABC1 Tory members that which equally might not resonate quite so well with the just about managing (former) red wall working class.

[super_realist]

This catastrophisation about a few warm days is ridiculous.
It's just a warm day, not Death Valley.

[Soul Requiem]

Yup, record prolonged temperatures, nothing to see here.

[super_realist]

Yup, record prolonged temperatures, nothing to see here.

Well is there? It's a bit warmer than usual. Big bloody deal. Enjoy it because before you know it, it's going to be 15c and wet.
Why does everything in the media have to be a "crisis" these days?

[McLaren]

Super

Ignore the media. But instead go check out what the experts are saying. And the science is in. We are going through climate change whereby the earth is heating up.

Please tell me you believe that?

[Soul Requiem]

Yup, record prolonged temperatures, nothing to see here.

Well is there? It's a bit warmer than usual. Big bloody deal. Enjoy it because before you know it, it's going to be 15c and wet.
Why does everything in the media have to be a "crisis" these days?

A bit warmer than usual is record prolonged temperatures, just your way of downplaying it. I don't enjoy it and much prefer 15c and wet.

Why is it you fail to understand each and every subject you comment on?

[super_realist]

Yup, record prolonged temperatures, nothing to see here.

Well is there? It's a bit warmer than usual. Big bloody deal. Enjoy it because before you know it, it's going to be 15c and wet.
Why does everything in the media have to be a "crisis" these days?

A bit warmer than usual is record prolonged temperatures, just your way of downplaying it. I don't enjoy it and much prefer 15c and wet.

Why is it you fail to understand each and every subject you comment on?

4 days is not prolonged. 15c would be colder than normal, would that be a crisis?

[McLaren]

Super

Just to be clear. Give a yes/no answer.

Do you accept the current scientific consensus on global warming?

[super_realist]

Super

Just to be clear. Give a yes/no answer.

Do you accept the current scientific consensus on global warming?

Yes, I've never said I didn't. I'm questioning the language around our current weather conditions.
Given I'm a Geoscientist it's highly likely I'm better versed than you are.

[Soul Requiem]

Super

Just to be clear. Give a yes/no answer.

Do you accept the current scientific consensus on global warming?

Yes, I've never said I didn't. I'm questioning the language around our current weather conditions.
Given I'm a Geoscientist it's highly likely I'm better versed than you are.

I find that highly doubtful given your opinions on the subject.

[super_realist]

Super

Just to be clear. Give a yes/no answer.

Do you accept the current scientific consensus on global warming?

Yes, I've never said I didn't. I'm questioning the language around our current weather conditions.
Given I'm a Geoscientist it's highly likely I'm better versed than you are.

I find that highly doubtful given your opinions on the subject.

Well that's up to you, but i haven't ever even implied that climate change and human induced climate change are not real.

[JAS]

Yup, record prolonged temperatures, nothing to see here.

Well is there? It's a bit warmer than usual. Big bloody deal. Enjoy it because before you know it, it's going to be 15c and wet.
Why does everything in the media have to be a "crisis" these days?

A bit warmer than usual is record prolonged temperatures, just your way of downplaying it. I don't enjoy it and much prefer 15c and wet.

Why is it you fail to understand each and every subject you comment on?

4 days is not prolonged. 15c would be colder than normal, would that be a crisis?

I think when you go significantly above the long term average, even just for a few days it does cause some difficulties. Also when the air temperature gets above body temperature that opens up a whole different ball game in terms of how some people (don’t) cope. The South East just teetered on that last week but were well and truly in it on the previous hot spell in July. Having said that, as always there’s a massive media overreaction, pretty much expected though as it helps deflect attention away from the hypocrisy central Poopie show that is the Tory leadership contest and the fact that somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 the population won’t be able to make ends meet over the coming year. Scandal begats scandal but hey this is Britain let’s talk about the weather.

[JAS]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

[super_realist]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

2-2 is a better result for PSV than it is for Rangers. Expect and hope PSV will sneak it next week .

[JAS]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

2-2 is a better result for PSV than it is for Rangers. Expect and hope PSV will sneak it next week .

Dortmund result aside the pattern emerging is that Gerrards teams were better away in Europe than Gios. They were also quite fortunate last year that most of the knock out ties had the away leg first. They could have done with a cushion going to Eindhoven but if they want to continue to punch above their weight with the big boys and be taken seriously consistently then Weds is the kind of match they need to win.

It would be really good for the coefficient if Hearts can get a result next week, they’re certainly still in their tie too.

[JAS]

Haven’t really been posting too much of late. Had been on a bit of a downer after going after an internal promotion and not getting it. My old boss moved on so I went for his role and was the only internal candidate yet the hiring manager contrived to place me 2nd in a one horse race then went external and couldn’t find anyone, so he’s saying he’s now covering the role (he’s not). So as I said, not been in a very good place however all that changed this week, just secured a new role with a different company and with a 60%+ increase in basic salary plus a host of other benefits.

Some things happen in life that you don’t like. They don’t define you, it’s how you choose to react that defines you.

[McLaren]

Well done Jas. How much of that extra cash is going on golf related purchases?

[JAS]

Well done Jas. How much of that extra cash is going on golf related purchases?

Most of it will be going on gas and electric lol

But yes it puts me in a much better place in terms of equipment renewals and trips to play some opens on different courses, I was having to pull the belt in a bit on those.

[super_realist]

Haven’t really been posting too much of late. Had been on a bit of a downer after going after an internal promotion and not getting it. My old boss moved on so I went for his role and was the only internal candidate yet the hiring manager contrived to place me 2nd in a one horse race then went external and couldn’t find anyone, so he’s saying he’s now covering the role (he’s not). So as I said, not been in a very good place however all that changed this week, just secured a new role  with a different company and with a 60%+ increase in basic salary plus  a host of other benefits.

Some things happen in life that you don’t like. They don’t define you, it’s how you choose to react that defines you.

60% rise is fantastic, you decadent capitalist pig you, See if Mick Lynch is free for a drink.

[navyblueshorts]

Haven’t really been posting too much of late. Had been on a bit of a downer after going after an internal promotion and not getting it. My old boss moved on so I went for his role and was the only internal candidate yet the hiring manager contrived to place me 2nd in a one horse race then went external and couldn’t find anyone, so he’s saying he’s now covering the role (he’s not). So as I said, not been in a very good place however all that changed this week, just secured a new role  with a different company and with a 60%+ increase in basic salary plus  a host of other benefits.

Some things happen in life that you don’t like. They don’t define you, it’s how you choose to react that defines you.

60% rise is fantastic, you decadent capitalist pig you,  See if Mick Lynch is free for a drink.

[JAS]

Haven’t really been posting too much of late. Had been on a bit of a downer after going after an internal promotion and not getting it. My old boss moved on so I went for his role and was the only internal candidate yet the hiring manager contrived to place me 2nd in a one horse race then went external and couldn’t find anyone, so he’s saying he’s now covering the role (he’s not). So as I said, not been in a very good place however all that changed this week, just secured a new role  with a different company and with a 60%+ increase in basic salary plus  a host of other benefits.

Some things happen in life that you don’t like. They don’t define you, it’s how you choose to react that defines you.

60% rise is fantastic, you decadent capitalist pig you,  See if Mick Lynch is free for a drink.

Lol, decadent? yes, pig? Maybe, Capitalist? Take that back you slanderous scoundrel!! :-p
I’d quite enjoy a drink and a chat with Comrade Mick, unfortunately I think he’s a bit preoccupied with some interfering bell end called Grant

[Duty281]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

[super_realist]

I despise Rangers, but fair play on getting to the Champions League. Both of the ugly sisters will get annihilated, but 6 games will generate a bit of cash to pay off debts, creditors and loans as well as line directors pockets.

EPL clubs will be torn, do they want an easy three points or face the horror of OF fans in their ground?

[JAS]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

[super_realist]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

There's also many teams who have got the better of Rangers in recent years and let's not forget the meek results of OF teams against Copenhagen, Bødo, Malmo, Midtyjlannd etc.

Rangers and Celtic's aspirations in group stage can realistically be no more than 3rd place.

[JAS]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

There's also many teams who have got the better of Rangers in recent years and let's not forget the meek  results of OF teams against Copenhagen, Bødo, Malmo, Midtyjlannd etc.

Rangers and Celtic's aspirations in group stage can realistically be no more than 3rd place.

I agree 3rd place is realistic. Who are the “many” that have had the better of them? Frankfurt (on penalties), Lyon in the group, Slavia Prague the previous season & Leverkusen the season before that…who else??

[super_realist]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

There's also many teams who have got the better of Rangers in recent years and let's not forget the meek  results of OF teams against Copenhagen, Bødo, Malmo, Midtyjlannd etc.

Rangers and Celtic's aspirations in group stage can realistically be no more than 3rd place.

I agree 3rd place is realistic. Who are the “many” that have had the better of them? Frankfurt (on penalties), Lyon in the group, Slavia Prague the previous season & Leverkusen the season before that…who else??

My point was that OF fans remember the hits bit ignore the misses. For every team they can beat, there's another two that can beat them.

[Duty281]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

Definitely the other way round. Of course it depends, Celtic fans wouldn't smash up Manchester or Liverpool, but Rangers fans would have a go. And then Rangers might be quite amicable towards Chelsea, but Celtic wouldn't be.

On the football front, most draws would mean it very tough for Rangers/Celtic to get third place, but there are easier draws out there. Getting Porto or Frankfurt in pot 1 would be nice, maybe Sevilla or Leipzig from pot 2, and Salzburg or Donetsk from pot 3. They would be the easiest and give the OF best chance, but still tough.

[JAS]

Super, Rangers started the season ranked 33rd, they’re now provisionally 28th and likely to go higher (the points dropping off the 5 year average was the 2017 humiliation in Luxembourg pre Gerrards arrival). They’ve climbed up from the depths but I’d say they are now approaching their long term ceiling of mid to high 20s. That basically puts them as a CL fringe team but capable of a decent run in Europa. That is where they are, I don’t ever see them as being a perennial top 16 team but neither do I see them as not worthy of a Top 40 berth. Celtic on the other hand need to get their bloody finger out, moping around on the fringe of the top 50 after almost whole decade of free champions league entry opportunity.

[JAS]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

Definitely the other way round. Of course it depends, Celtic fans wouldn't smash up Manchester or Liverpool, but Rangers fans would have a go. And then Rangers might be quite amicable towards Chelsea, but Celtic wouldn't be.

On the football front, most draws would mean it very tough for Rangers/Celtic to get third place, but there are easier draws out there. Getting Porto or Frankfurt in pot 1 would be nice, maybe Sevilla or Leipzig from pot 2, and Salzburg or Donetsk from pot 3. They would be the easiest and give the OF best chance, but still tough.

I don’t think there would be that much trouble to be honest. Manchester was a Final and an unsavoury episode but it was over 14 years ago. As far as I’m aware Rangers fans behaved well on the road last season, there was certainly no repeat of Manchester in Seville. I know friendlies are different but from what I heard there was a lot of mutual respect at both the West Ham and Spurs friendlies last month.

On the draw, yep I don’t disagree with the weaker links in each pot. I’d still say though nobody in the other 3 Pots will want to draw Rangers in pot 4. I wouldnt mind the best team in pots 1 and 2 and the weakest Pot 3 side. Take a point or 3 off the big boys at Ibrox and beat the 3rd team on the head to heads to secure Europa League football after Xmas.

[super_realist]

So here’s one for Supes, Do you think the 50th ranked team in Europe can sneak a win over the 33rd ranked team and make it into the CL group stage?

Two Scottish teams in the group stages of the CL. We're truly in the end times.

Bet the police are praying they don't get drawn against any of the PL clubs.

I think the Glasgow Police are well enough prepared to cope with the influx of southern hooligans…or did you mean it the other way round? :-p

Football wise they are there on merit, I’m actually quite miffed they’re not in pot 3 they must have missed it by a baw hair. They will be NO bigger teams choice from Pot 4. I look back through the seedlings and there’s teams in every pot they’ve got the better of in the past 3 seasons.

Ideally their target should be 3rd in group and drop into the Europa League post Xmas.

Definitely the other way round. Of course it depends, Celtic fans wouldn't smash up Manchester or Liverpool, but Rangers fans would have a go. And then Rangers might be quite amicable towards Chelsea, but Celtic wouldn't be.

On the football front, most draws would mean it very tough for Rangers/Celtic to get third place, but there are easier draws out there. Getting Porto or Frankfurt in pot 1 would be nice, maybe Sevilla or Leipzig from pot 2, and Salzburg or Donetsk from pot 3. They would be the easiest and give the OF best chance, but still tough.

I don’t think there would be that much trouble to be honest. Manchester was a Final and an unsavoury episode but it was over 14 years ago. As far as I’m aware Rangers fans behaved well on the road last season, there was certainly no repeat of Manchester in Seville. I know friendlies are different but from what I heard there was a lot of mutual respect at both the West Ham and Spurs friendlies last month.

On the draw, yep I don’t disagree with the weaker links in each pot. I’d still say though nobody in the other 3 Pots will want to draw Rangers in pot 4. I wouldnt mind the best team in pots 1 and 2 and the weakest Pot 3 side. Take a point or 3 off the big boys at Ibrox and beat the 3rd team on the head to heads to secure Europa League football after Xmas.

I don't think Pot 1 teams give a toss about Pot 4 teams, most Pot 2 teams wouldn't either. If any Pot 1 teams is having to look at what Pot 4 teams they want to avoid i think they have bigger issues with their hierarchy and management.
Real or Man City really aren't going to care about Rangers, Celtic or Copenhagen, other than Glasgow is a rotten city for an away game.

[McLaren]

Glasgow is a terrible city. We can agree on that Super.

[super_realist]

Glasgow is a terrible city. We can agree on that Super.

I lived there Mac for a brief period in 2017 Mac. It was where I first really noticed how supermarkets tailor their wares to the resident demographic. Never seen so much plastic cheese.

[JAS]

Glasgow is a rotten city for an away game.

Marginally better than Donetsk at the moment though!!

[Soul Requiem]

Glasgow is a rotten city for an away game.

Marginally better than Donetsk at the moment though!!

I'd rather take my chances in Donetsk.

[JAS]

Glasgow is a rotten city for an away game.

Marginally better than Donetsk at the moment though!!

I'd rather take my chances in Donetsk.

Just checked to see if there were any flights for you, unfortunately couldn't find any :-p

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