Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

It does seem that this cat video is pretty old. But, also oeople seem more upset about it then say, Chelsea having a player who killed someone when he was drink driving.

We are a nation of animal lovers, my mum was all in on Romanian rescue dogs, not so keen on Romanian people.
,

[incontinentia]

Personally I think religion is the opium of the masses

[super_realist]

I’m not religious. Certainly not anti religion. If people want to be religious that’s fine with me. Have friends and some family who are religious. No bother, they just get on with it. I leave them to it and they don’t bother me with it. All good.

Certainly wouldn’t mock people for it. Bit sad in my book.
But hey we’re all different.

Would you not think someone who thought they had an invisible friend was a bit mad though?

Mad people probably do think that way.

To answer your question, probably would, but I also wouldn’t let it bother me.

My point is, just because people think differently, believe in things I don’t, no matter how far fetched they maybe, it’s just something I’m not to concerned with.

I’ve got more important things to concern myself with than someone being religious.

What if it affects society? Roe v Wade? Northern Ireland, Sectarianism, What about religions avoiding taxes despite massive wealth?
Religion does nothing good that can't be done without it, so it should be laughed at and given no special treatment.

Even in other things such as Rochdale, they refused to confront the problem of abuse for fear of being accused of being racist because they were largely Muslim men.

[McLaren]

I’m not religious. Certainly not anti religion. If people want to be religious that’s fine with me. Have friends and some family who are religious. No bother, they just get on with it. I leave them to it and they don’t bother me with it. All good.

Certainly wouldn’t mock people for it. Bit sad in my book.
But hey we’re all different.

Would you not think someone who thought they had an invisible friend was a bit mad though?

Mad people probably do think that way.

To answer your question, probably would, but I also wouldn’t let it bother me.

My point is, just because people think differently, believe in things I don’t, no matter how far fetched they maybe, it’s just something I’m not to concerned with.

I’ve got more important things to concern myself with than someone being religious.

This take is almost as crazy as a religious one to me. Although I said you can't ban religious people from office you can oppose everything they stand for.

It's not like them believing in the make believe doesn't have real world consequences. If I had family members/friends who were religious I would constantly be pushing them to justify themselves given the impact on the world they have had.

If it doesn't bother you then you can't have had many particularly deep discussions with those close to you. Your religious family will have almost their whole world view shaped by whatever sect they are in.



And Super

You asked somewhere how people can be against gay marriage. But I think you do understand that feeling. Just think about how you feel when thinking about any number of issues like trans rights, institutional racism, climate change, right to protest or treatment of migrants etc.

[McLaren]

God save the queen.

[Duty281]

And she was so close to beating King Louis XIV's reign.

[beninho]

Even Queenie thinks Trussy will be awful.

[super_realist]

God save the queen.

Bad week for JAS.

[Soul Requiem]

Even Queenie thinks Trussy will be awful.

Looks like Mary Elizabeth could be the end of Elizabeth Mary.

[beninho]

My mum died of cancer. She had a crucifix in her hand when she died. Yet it seems people think I shoukd have been calling her stupid or stuff in her dying times. Or I shoukd think less of her because of it.

[super_realist]

My mum died of cancer. She had a crucifix in her hand when she died. Yet it seems people think I shoukd have been calling her stupid or stuff in her dying times. Or I shoukd think less of her because of it.

You don't have to think of her as stupid, more likely indoctrinated and lacking sufficient scepticism.
If she had a small flying spaghetti monster in her hand I wouldn't think she was any more justified.
People don't want to die and don't want to think there's nothing, but there's no reason to think that there is anything.

If it helps her at the end fine, just don't want such hogwash to be entrenched in society or have influence.

Not stupid, just gullible.

[beninho]

My mum died of cancer. She had a crucifix in her hand when she died. Yet it seems people think I shoukd have been calling her stupid or stuff in her dying times. Or I shoukd think less of her because of it.

You don't have to think of her as stupid, more likely indoctrinated and lacking sufficient scepticism.
If she had a small flying spaghetti monster in her hand I wouldn't think she was any more justified.
People don't want to die and don't want to think there's nothing, but there's no reason to think that there is anything.

If it helps her at the end fine, just don't want such hogwash to be entrenched in society or have influence.

Not stupid, just gullible.

But surely its more stupid to think everyone who goes to church or has a form of faith belive the same thing? Some people will use faith as a crutch, something to cling on to in desperate times. Some form of support. They don't have to believe anything about God to use it.

It's strange to think everyone is the same.

[super_realist]

Who said I think they believe the same? There's been over 30,000 gods posited but not a scrap of evidence for any, so I'm well aware that they don't have to believe the same thing.

Faith is useless by definition. It only tells us that they don't care if their beliefs are true.

[beninho]

Faith is useless?

If someone uses faith in something to provide them support it cannot be useless.

If someone finds support or a crutch I'm fine with it. If it's some non existent god or a dwarf. If it's helping them in anyway. Good for them.

[super_realist]

Faith is useless?  

If someone uses faith in something to provide them support it cannot be useless.  

If someone finds support or a crutch I'm fine with it. If it's some non existent god or a dwarf. If it's helping them in anyway. Good for them.  

Faith is the excuse people give when they haven't got a good reason to believe. If you have a good reason, then faith is redundant.
It is no different to crossing fingers, throwing a coin in a fountain, praying or any other superstitious crap like that.

[beninho]

No one is saying it is. And many are fully aware of that. Doesn't mean people can't find support in something, and faith is quite easy, especially if at a low point.

I really find it strange the need to criticise people who want to use something to support or help them, im any way. Faith groups support people with addictions, people not religious at all, but can find the support from the groups. Unsure how that is a bad thing.

[McLaren]

Ben

What about the recent people voted in by the people has you thinking large numbers of people can't be wrong?

Also do you know that help based on evidence based medicine wouldn't have been better for people needing support in tough times than relying on religious beliefs?

[super_realist]

No one is saying it is. And many are fully aware of that. Doesn't mean people can't find support in something, and faith is quite easy, especially if at a low point.

I really find it strange the need to criticise people who want to use something to support or help them, im any way.  Faith groups support people with addictions, people not religious at all, but can find the support from the groups. Unsure how that is a bad thing.

Why would anyone want to believe something no better than a fairy tale just because it makes you feel better?

It's no better than believing in Santa Claus.

[beninho]

It's mad we have people who don't thinknpeople shoukd find their own level of support because it's not something they think they should have.

You dont have to believe I'm God to receive support from faith groups. Whatever helps anyone is a good thing.

[McLaren]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

[super_realist]

It's mad we have people who don't thinknpeople shoukd find their own level of support because it's not something they think they should have.

You dont have to believe I'm God to receive support from faith groups. Whatever helps anyone is a good thing.

Imagine you're a passenger in a plane that os going down. Would you rather a pilot who was rubbing his rosary beads or a pilot who was taking direct action?

You aren't receiving help from faith groups, you're receiving delusion, credulity and indoctrination.

[beninho]

It's mad we have people who don't thinknpeople shoukd find their own level of support because it's not something they think they should have.

You dont have to believe I'm God to receive support from faith groups. Whatever helps anyone is a good thing.

Imagine you're a passenger in a plane that os going down. Would you rather a pilot who was rubbing his rosary beads or a pilot who was taking direct action?

You aren't receiving help from faith groups, you're receiving delusion, credulity and indoctrination.

What's that got to do with anything?

I would expect that never to have been the case ever.

[beninho]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

It woukd depend on the person, the reason for the use. And their situation. Obviously.

But I'm not a blinkered person. I have literally no issue with someone trying something if other factors have failed. If soneone has terminal cancer, and wanted to try homeopathy, I wouldn't say don't be stupid accept you will die, I would happily take them anywhere in the hope that it cam provide some sort of brief hope or rest from a dire situation. Whether I think sonething won't work or not.

Same with prayer or faith support groups. Who am I to tell people to accept that nothing can help them. Whatever I, you or anyone else thinks, its generally good to not be a cnut to people who are looking and trying ways to support themselves in whatever way they want.

[superflyweight]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

It woukd depend on the person, the reason for the use.  And their situation. Obviously.

But I'm not a blinkered person. I have literally no issue with someone trying something if other factors have failed. If soneone has terminal cancer, and wanted to try homeopathy, I wouldn't say don't be stupid accept you will die, I would happily take them anywhere in the hope that it cam provide some sort of brief hope or rest from a dire situation. Whether I think sonething won't work or not.

Same with prayer or faith support groups. Who am I to tell people to accept that nothing can help them. Whatever I, you or anyone else thinks, its generally good to not be a cnut to people who are looking and trying ways to support themselves in whatever way they want.

Yep. Last thing anyone would want is the hyper-rational binary bot twins showing up beside their death bed to dispense 'comforting' stories of the endless nothingness of death.

[super_realist]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

It woukd depend on the person, the reason for the use.  And their situation. Obviously.

But I'm not a blinkered person. I have literally no issue with someone trying something if other factors have failed. If soneone has terminal cancer, and wanted to try homeopathy, I wouldn't say don't be stupid accept you will die, I would happily take them anywhere in the hope that it cam provide some sort of brief hope or rest from a dire situation. Whether I think sonething won't work or not.

Same with prayer or faith support groups. Who am I to tell people to accept that nothing can help them. Whatever I, you or anyone else thinks, its generally good to not be a cnut to people who are looking and trying ways to support themselves in whatever way they want.

What is an individual with no medical experience going to get from something that science has already discovered is total nonsense?

I'm fine if people want to delude themselves that things which have zero efficacy can comfort them in death being a good thing in regards to taking their mind off their decline, but that sort of crap isn't just restricted to terminally ill people is it?

We have examples of this sort of credulity throughout life and society.

Celebrating delusion isn't a respectable position and the countries which have less of this superstitious crap have better societal health.

[beninho]

Who is celebrating delusion? You are just making things up now.

My point is purely, some people have found ways via faith to make them feel that their life is improved. That's is an unarguable fact.

The fact that their may be other ways that could also help is an irrelevance, because not every other way is a guarantee of success.

If someone's life feels better to them, surely that's a good thing.

We know there is no sure fire medical way to cure addiction. None. So if soneone uses faith support and it helps. That's a good thing for that person.

Beggers belief that this can even be argued.

[super_realist]

Remember we are discussing this all because of the FAITH of Therese Coffey and the ghastly positions it has led her to hold.

Some people have faith they've had an alien abduction, or that conspiracy theories are true, or use faith to justify any position such as enforced circumcision, FGM or rule against abortion or gay marriage for example, doesn't mean that because those things make them feel better that faith is a good thing does it?

I also lost a very dear relative to a particularly unpleasant form of aggressive and painful cancer last year, so I know what you've been through.
Death is unpleasant, it's a sad fact of life. I'm fine if it made her feel better, but it doesn't make faith in imaginary sky zombies or transparently false and immoral organised religions rational or worthy.

[westisbest]

I’m not religious. Certainly not anti religion. If people want to be religious that’s fine with me. Have friends and some family who are religious. No bother, they just get on with it. I leave them to it and they don’t bother me with it. All good.

Certainly wouldn’t mock people for it. Bit sad in my book.
But hey we’re all different.

Would you not think someone who thought they had an invisible friend was a bit mad though?

Mad people probably do think that way.

To answer your question, probably would, but I also wouldn’t let it bother me.

My point is, just because people think differently, believe in things I don’t, no matter how far fetched they maybe, it’s just something I’m not to concerned with.

I’ve got more important things to concern myself with than someone being religious.

This take is almost as crazy as a religious one to me. Although I said you can't ban religious people from office you can oppose everything they stand for.

It's not like them believing in the make believe doesn't have real world consequences. If I had family members/friends who were religious I would constantly be pushing them to justify themselves given the impact on the world they have had.

If it doesn't bother you then you can't have had many particularly deep discussions with those close to you. Your religious family will have almost their whole world view shaped by whatever sect they are in.



And Super

You asked somewhere how people can be against gay marriage. But I think you do understand that feeling. Just think about how you feel when thinking about any number of issues like trans rights, institutional racism, climate change, right to protest or treatment of migrants etc.

I get on fine with my family, religious ones or not. Like I said I keep out of it they keep me out of it, same as friends. No problem.

I’ve had quite a few deep discussions with family about things, not so deep about religion though, we keep that out of conversation. All good.

I won’t make a big deal about people wanting to go to church.

U can if you want pal.

[McLaren]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

[Duty281]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

Just imagine if it was Tiger.

[super_realist]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

I thought the Queen was a thoroughly decent person but you can stick the monarchy up your cõck hole.
We should treat it like they do in Norway or Netherlands now. Purely ceremonial, especially now as we have two thickos in line

[JAS]

No one is saying it is. And many are fully aware of that. Doesn't mean people can't find support in something, and faith is quite easy, especially if at a low point.

I really find it strange the need to criticise people who want to use something to support or help them, im any way.  Faith groups support people with addictions, people not religious at all, but can find the support from the groups. Unsure how that is a bad thing.

Why would anyone want to believe something no better than a fairy tale just because it makes you feel better?

It's no better than believing in Santa Claus.

What's wrong with believing in Santa? millions of kids do it and it makes them happy, gives them a sense of hope and excitement and something to look forward to. Yes when they start to grow up they know it's hogwash but so what. If you had kids would you have them being cynical from age of 2?

Meanwhile loads of low paid working class people put their faith in Tories to run the country, it's the same thing really, just they realised that Santa wasn't real they're now finding out that their faith in the Tories has also been drastically misplaced.

[JAS]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

Why wouldn't you? If it works for some people it works for some people, does it work for everyone? no. Does chemo work for all cancers? no

[JAS]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

I thought the Queen was a thoroughly decent person but you can stick the monarchy up your cõck hole.
We should treat it like they do in Norway or Netherlands now. Purely ceremonial, especially now as we have two thickos in line

I thought she was a thoroughly decent person too. Yes of course the whole institution reeks of outdated privilege but the fact that most would say "So what" or "no it doesn't" or "Yeah but..." when that assertion is made is a testament to her and how well she served and evolved that institution.

[super_realist]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

Why wouldn't you? If it works for some people it works for some people, does it work for everyone? no. Does chemo work for all cancers? no

Homeopathy doesn't work for anyone. It's in the same realm as alchemy and astrology

[super_realist]

No one is saying it is. And many are fully aware of that. Doesn't mean people can't find support in something, and faith is quite easy, especially if at a low point.

I really find it strange the need to criticise people who want to use something to support or help them, im any way.  Faith groups support people with addictions, people not religious at all, but can find the support from the groups. Unsure how that is a bad thing.

Why would anyone want to believe something no better than a fairy tale just because it makes you feel better?

It's no better than believing in Santa Claus.

What's wrong with believing in Santa? millions of kids do it and it makes them happy, gives them a sense of hope and excitement and something to look forward to. Yes when they start to grow up they know it's hogwash but so what. If you had kids would you have them being cynical from age of 2?

Meanwhile loads of low paid working class people put their faith in Tories to run the country, it's the same thing really, just they realised that Santa wasn't real they're now finding out that their faith in the Tories has also been drastically misplaced.

Because they're children, children haven't got fully developed brains. An adult doesn't have a reason or justification to believe in something like that

Adults didn't place "faith" in Tories either.

[McLaren]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

Why wouldn't you? If it works for some people it works for some people, does it work for everyone? no. Does chemo work for all cancers? no

This post is why everyone should be forced to understand the basics of the scientific method before being allowed to leave high school and participate in society.

[super_realist]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

Why wouldn't you? If it works for some people it works for some people, does it work for everyone? no. Does chemo work for all cancers? no

This post is why everyone should be forced to understand the basics of the scientific method before being allowed to leave high school and participate in society.

Clearly Mac, using homeopathy is like praying to find your car keys.

[Shotrock]

Mac - The US Media is going crazy over the coverage of the Queen and new King. Top 'talking heads' from networks flew overnight to be there in person.

[super_realist]

Mac - The US Media is going crazy over the coverage of the Queen and new King. Top 'talking heads' from networks flew overnight to be there in person.

I see one disgusting American "academic" has said she hoped her death was long and very painful. Didn't take these mad far left wonks to come out the woodwork

[Shotrock]

Super - There's no limit to idiocy in these parts.

Most of the US coverage (I've seen) is fawning adoration of the Queen and all things royal.

[navyblueshorts]

It's strange how America is so far ahead of the UK on weed legalisation. I've read somewhere its still pushed by the media that weed is bad. Don't see why a government can't push it a bit. Means when my mum was alive she wouldn't have needed to try and order oil from Holland for her cancer pain.

It is. Just because it's associated w/ hippy, flower power berks doesn't make it remotely harmless. There's plenty of evidence of it contributing to various forms of psychosis, especially in youngsters. Yes, there's good evidence that it contains molecules with decent pain relieving properties, but harmless? Umm, no. To be clear 'weed' != purified CBD oil etc and even that hasn't been fully researched as to effects, both +ve and -ve.

[navyblueshorts]

It's strange how America is so far ahead of the UK on weed legalisation. I've read somewhere its still pushed by the media that weed is bad. Don't see why a government can't push it a bit. Means when my mum was alive she wouldn't have needed to try and order oil from Holland for her cancer pain.

Depends why you want it legalised. I'm fine for medical grounds but don't see why it should be legalised just so dope headed losers can have a smoke

Maybe that's why governments are scared to do the sensible thing. Even people in their 40s (assumption) have old fashioned views.

Says the expert on the biochemistry, molecular pharmacology and neurochemistry of cannabis and its active constituents. Yeah, right.

[navyblueshorts]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

Just imagine if it was Tiger.

[navyblueshorts]

It is going to be a painful few days/weeks isn't it. Already sick of hearing about how much the queen meant to people.

I thought the Queen was a thoroughly decent person but you can stick the monarchy up your cõck hole.
We should treat it like they do in Norway or Netherlands now. Purely ceremonial, especially now as we have two thickos in line

So we replace it with yet another election of an utter prat via an utterly outdated electoral system? Whatever rights/wrongs of constitutional monarchy, would rather a monarch of that type than a useless 'President' etc. Agree that peripheral royal hangers on need thinning out.

[navyblueshorts]

No one is saying it is. And many are fully aware of that. Doesn't mean people can't find support in something, and faith is quite easy, especially if at a low point.

I really find it strange the need to criticise people who want to use something to support or help them, im any way.  Faith groups support people with addictions, people not religious at all, but can find the support from the groups. Unsure how that is a bad thing.

Why would anyone want to believe something no better than a fairy tale just because it makes you feel better?

It's no better than believing in Santa Claus.

What's wrong with believing in Santa? millions of kids do it and it makes them happy, gives them a sense of hope and excitement and something to look forward to. Yes when they start to grow up they know it's hogwash but so what. If you had kids would you have them being cynical from age of 2?

Meanwhile loads of low paid working class people put their faith in Tories to run the country, it's the same thing really, just they realised that Santa wasn't real they're now finding out that their faith in the Tories has also been drastically misplaced.

Nothing, but then it's normally outgrown before someone reaches ~10 y/o and AFAIK, national policy isn't potentially being introduced on the basis of a belief in Mr. Claus.

[navyblueshorts]

So Ben, you think people should use homeopathy?

Why wouldn't you? If it works for some people it works for some people, does it work for everyone? no. Does chemo work for all cancers? no

It works for no-one. If it works, it's placebo. End of story. Good result I guess, but it's not 'homeopathy' that has done an iota of good.

[navyblueshorts]

Mac - The US Media is going crazy over the coverage of the Queen and new King. Top 'talking heads' from networks flew overnight to be there in person.

I see one disgusting American "academic" has said she hoped her death was long and very painful. Didn't take these mad far left wonks to come out the woodwork

Yeah. Interesting that her views didn't stop her accepting a position in a country that has such a clear conscience on slavery etc, eh? Hypocritical PoS.

[McLaren]

Mac - The US Media is going crazy over the coverage of the Queen and new King. Top 'talking heads' from networks flew overnight to be there in person.

I tend to think that in the US, and the UK, the fawning over the Royals is just like any other celebrity fandom. Also the news organisations know that stories about the Royals is like printing money.

Unfortunately you will probably have to put up with the hysteria without the benefit of a public holiday.

[westisbest]

Next Monday is a bank holiday I believe.

[Galted]

Next Monday is a bank holiday I believe.

Her life and death were not in vain.

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