England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

First topic message reminder :

A few things whirling around my head and most start with the fact that Eddie is likely to remain in charge. There are probably a lack of available alternatives and the RFU won't want to fork out more money. Therefore, he is likely to remain in charge until the RWC 2023 is done. Bearing that in mind what are the positives and negatives?

Positives
We have some decent forwards for sure and the set piece should be fine. Underhill was terrific yesterday and I think a return to Curry and Underhill playing around a big 8 would be very handy. Dombrandt should be that man.
Our defence is excellent and the team spirit is clearly there.
We have loads of quality players who can hopefully return to fitness and form and add to the mix. All countries lose players and of course we have more resources than anyone bar France, but we will no doubt look completely different if Launchbury, Hill, Curry, Cowan-Dickie, Manu, May, Watson, Cockanasiga, Farrell are all fit and firing.
We have some foundations to build on and it is not Eddie's fault that we have not had Manu, or a decent replacement, available to add some power to our midfield.
There is enough time to fix many of these issues.

Negatives
Inconsistent selection
Inconsistent tactics and coaching team (too many coaching changes). Taking over from Lancaster Eddie was very clear on what to do. Restore England's traditional strengths in the set piece, defence and back it up with good kicking. Now we are totally confused as what we are trying to do.
The whole thing about playing players not in their best positions
Everyone is bored with Eddie's comments - we need less of him

Aus Tour
What a statement he made by winning 3-0 last time post a grand slam. Ruthless in taking off Burrell after 25 minutes. And they were missing Manu then as well and ended up with Ford, Farrell and Joseph so if we assume that Manu is unavailable then there is still hope. But we need players in their correct position and we need some consistency. Considering we don't have too many options at 12 and Slade is not really working out should we revert to Farrell? Not exactly a running beast, but at least he will be fresh and might just add some toughness. I would love to see Youngs left behind and to back 2 of our younger 9s. Genge, Dombrandt, Smith, Steward etc all need exposure to a tough away series.

Autumn
Based purely on form this is now the time to select the 23 Eddie sees as our strongest RWC team. All bets are off now and if a Mako or Bill V are playing well and showing the form and hunger to return then why not consider them. We might need then in the RWC group even if they are back ups to the regular starters. So maybe give them a game to see where they are? And then hopefully we can enjoy some consistent selection allied with a revamped game plan.

Anyone else hopeful that Eddie can resurrect the team and our RWC ambitions?

[quote="majesticimperialman"]Danny Care called back Into the England squad after almost 4years.
[/quote

Being cynical that is only to stop him playing for the BaaBaas and embarrassing EJ and England.

[quote="majesticimperialman"

]Danny Care called back Into the England squad after almost 4years.
Was just thinking what with Danny Care being called up if there is any chance Chris Aston might get a second chance?
[/quote]

Him and Martin Johnson.

Margin_Walker wrote:McGuigan especially very unlucky. Not much more he could have done this season to impress. EJ obviously doesn't fancy him.

I know GF disagrees, but I'm not particularly surprised with this. McGuigan does some really nice things but he's not a physical hooker in the slightest....I could imagine him getting a bit lost in training tbh. Nice for him to be in the mix but ultimately he's just not got that top 2 inches that is required.

Decent club player but I agree Sgt, he's not really pressing the others. Bit surprised to see Walker in there though. He has been quietly very effective for Harlequins but barely gets a mention normally.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Him and Martin Johnson.

If only. Imagine Johnno on the row next to Itoje. According to Haskell Johnno was still pretty handy in training during his England tenure, probably asking a bit now though.

Hey, if Aston (sic) can make it so can he. Would be great to him linking up with Vickery again.

Mcguigan is out due to his age...same age as LCD and George who are established and Jones 3rd hooker is a younger option.

Falcons gain so im not complaining.

Can someone explain why Joe C is in the squad as well?

No form, not had any for ages, overweight, undynamic? Is this panic stations due to a lack of Manu!

Id far rather have Thorley...

Only seen the Gloucester stuffing with him in recently and thought he was one of the few Bath players along with Underhill who actually showed up. Big guy offering ballast and speed in the backline that we don't really have elsewhere. Good record when he's played for England. I can see why he's there.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mcguigan is out due to his age...same age as LCD and George who are established and Jones 3rd hooker is a younger option.

Falcons gain so im not complaining.

If age was the issue he wouldn't have even made the initial squad.

Eddie doesn't care so much about the future.....and why should he? He has a contract to the World Cup and then he's off.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mcguigan is out due to his age...same age as LCD and George who are established and Jones 3rd hooker is a younger option.

Falcons gain so im not complaining.

If age was the issue he wouldn't have even made the initial squad.

Eddie doesn't care so much about the future.....and why should he? He has a contract to the World Cup and then he's off.

As i said Falcons will benefit. Let eddie play his stupid games with players.

McGuigan your 3rd choice then Geordie, or vying for the team?

Despite Sgt's thoughts, he's good enough to challenge...not just be 3rd choice.

Look what hes doing a fully sh$te team! Imagine what he'd do in a quality side or for England. Anyway, that aint going to happen...

Lets hope Blamire can develop his core hooking skills....as he's fairly behind McGuigan in those skills at the moment.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mcguigan is out due to his age...same age as LCD and George who are established and Jones 3rd hooker is a younger option.

Falcons gain so im not complaining.

If age was the issue he wouldn't have even made the initial squad.

Eddie doesn't care so much about the future.....and why should he? He has a contract to the World Cup and then he's off.

As i said Falcons will benefit. Let eddie play his stupid games with players.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up with this one GF. Eddie has called him into a training squad....had a look at him and decided he's not got what he's looking for. Surely it would have been worse if he wasn't called up in the first place?

Care's call-up seems a bit like Lancaster's decision to rehabiliate Nick Easter.

Easter carried the can a bit for the 2011 World Cup, and Lancaster also thought he'd be too old for the next tournament. However, by the time 2015 came around, he was still delivering consistent performances, and it was less of a risk to bring him in, as he only needed to stay fit for six months or so.

Jones and Care clearly had a falling out, which led to Jones dumped the Quins man from his 2019 World Cup plans. Jones probably assumed, as Lancaster did with Easter, that there was little chance Care would still be a leading contender in his position four years on.

However, DC is in a rich vein of form. It also won't have escaped Jones' notice that he plays with Dombrandt, Smith and Marchant, who are all more prominent in his plans compared with the last World Cup run.

While none of this means that Jones is slotting Care back in the England mainstream, it does suggest he's at least more willing to conside him as a fallback plan.

Rugby Fan wrote:Care's call-up seems a bit like Lancaster's decision to rehabiliate Nick Easter.

Easter carried the can a bit for the 2011 World Cup, and Lancaster also thought he'd be too old for the next tournament. However, by the time 2015 came around, he was still delivering consistent performances, and it was less of a risk to bring him in, as he only needed to stay fit for six months or so.

Jones and Care clearly had a falling out, which led to Jones dumped the Quins man from his 2019 World Cup plans. Jones probably assumed, as Lancaster did with Easter, that there was little chance Care would still be a leading contender in his position four years on.

However, DC is in a rich vein of form. It also won't have escaped Jones' notice that he plays with Dombrandt, Smith and Marchant, who are all more prominent in his plans compared with the last World Cup run.

While none of this means that Jones is slotting Care back in the England mainstream, it does suggest he's at least more willing to conside him as a fallback plan.

I'll be genuinely interested to see how Care goes if he plays the tests. I think he's carried his form on very well but unlike others I don't think the old weaknesses in his game have improved. I think they are still there, just his strengths are as strong and his weaknesses as weak. Which at Care's age is impressive in itself. Usually strengths diminish and weaknesses grow at that age.

He got 84 caps spanning 3 head coaches with a maximum of 8 starts on the bounce. I just think his strengths attacking around the fringes were mitigated by international defences and his weaknesses in kicking, game management and defence were exposed. This is often the case at international level.

Especially the defensive aspect in recent years. I've posted about it a few times but how top international 9s show up defensively is a big change in recent years. The days of 9s such as Dawson who did nothing in defence being normal and 9s such as Gregan who was fantastic are disappearing. Faf is a key part of the Boks drift around the fringes. Ireland under Farrell frequently use their 9 as the last defender on the openside so that they can play a winger deep. Dupont often stands at pillar for France and is a pest around the fringes allowing a forward to work wider round the corner. Smith and Perenara sweep in behind the ABs defensive line brilliantly allowing their fullback to hang deep covering kicks without having an acre of space for chips to land in. For England Youngs drops back to cover high balls well, allowing England to play a winger high in the defensive line which in turn allows their very aggressive blitz around the fringes as they have an extra defender out wide if the opposition shift the ball past their blitz.

It's an interesting evolution that's come with improving defences. Top defensive coaches talk about defence as a 'weak link' aspect of rugby now. I.e. you're only as strong as your weakest defender. In days gone by a lot of 9s realistically got away with standing just behind the ruck, waving their arms about pretending they were "directing the forwards". It was basically defending with 14 men though and it seems clear that defence coaches identified that weak link and have started incorporating 9s as a genuine part of defensive systems.

Robson's cameos were a good example of this. Robson is very good at aspects of attack but offers near nothing defensively. It was glaring at times just during bench appearances.

Care's career started in that period where 9s were passengers in defence and I often still think it's the case. He has big strengths and his familiarity with Dombrandt and Smith is a new and fair one to raise. I will be interested to see if his weaknesses have actually improved and if his strengths don't get nullified by international sides again.

Before the two usual suspects burst a blood vessel because a Tigers fan has criticised a scrum half other than Youngs, I've said several times that I think England need to move on from Youngs. I just think Quirke and JvP look like the solution not Care!

Everyone has their own view on players and what weaknesses they are prepared to tolerate for the strengths. I love the look of both Quirke and van Poorvliet and I would take the latter to aus this summer.

Quirke will have to get away from the physio table he's been sharing with manu before he can be considered!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Quirke will have to get away from the physio table he's been sharing with manu before he can be considered!

How many players haven't had injury issues these days if we're being realistic though?

1.Genge 2.LCD 3.Sinckler 4.Itoje 5.Hill 6.Lawes 7.Curry 8.Dombrandt
9.Quirke 10.Smith 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Tuilagi 14.Watson 15.Steward

16.George 17.Marler 18.Stuart 19.Launchbury 20.Underhill 21.Randall 22.Marchant 23.Nowell

A full strength 23 of something like hypothetically. Itoje, Dombrandt, Smith, Steward, Randall and Marchant haven't had major surgery to my knowledge. Unsurprisingly most are younger with less miles on the clock. It wouldn't surprise me if fans of their respective clubs correct me that they have had major surgeries as well!

It's just the nature of how physical the modern game is. Massive, supremely fit players and non stop rugby being played. Itoje is the aberration rather than the norm in being available so much.

We're chasing unicorns if you want a side of players with good injury records.

KC, all player get injuries yes, but some seem to spend more time of the physio table than the pitch.

Quirke despite his young age seems to be following the well worn Manu path to the table!

My rejigged team with the newbies would be:

Goodrick-Clarke Singleton Collier
Lawes J Hill
Willis Curry
Dombrandt

Mitchell Smith
H-C M Atkinson Dingwall Radwan
Arundell

Davison Blamire Stuart
Ewels Hill Randall Bailey Freeman

7.5....No Ewells?? better change that...you know he'll be in there.

It's not my predicted team just the one I'd pick, and i've dropped him to the bench.

Thinking about it though, maybe I should have Care instead of Randall.

Baabaas have announced a 24 man squad. Potential side something like:

1.Jean-Baptiste Gros
2.Pierre Bourgarit
3.Trevor Nyakane
4.Will Skelton
5.George Kruis
6.Dylan Cretin
7.Levani Botia
8.Charles Ollivon (c)

9.Baptiste Couilloud
10.Louis Carbonel

11.Davit Niniashvili
12.Tani Vili
13.Virimi Vakatawa
14.Damien Penaud
15.Maz Spring

16.Christopher Tolofua
17.Dany Priso
18.Sipili Falatea/Thomas Laclayat
19.Thomas Lavault
20.Yoan Tanga
21.Sekou Macalou
22.Nolan le Garrex
23.Antoine Hastoy

Presuming that Botia could realistically be used as a forward or back with the Baabaas.

They could go with Hastoy or Carbonel at 10. Both are very good players.

Basically it's a lot of very talented Top 14 youngsters with a sprinkling of established internationals. Really strong potential forward pack but some weaker backs. Overall it's a very strong Baabaas squad that Galthie has put together.

Thomas Laclayat is an interesting one. He's played his rugby thus far in ProD2 but has played a monstrous number of games the last two years. 5'7" TH so would offer a very different scrummaging challenge to most THs. I wonder if the France coaches fancy a look at him as a prospect.

https://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/france-countries/watch-outrageous-prop-dummy-from-thomas-laclayat-142468

Laclayat has got some moves as well.

Botia has played flanker before. He'll definitely carry hard for the side. The tight five is going to give us some issues. Think this is going to prove a pretty stiff test.

Well thats good Sam, most of them need a good testing.

Any backline including Couilloud, Carbonel, Vili, Botia, Penaud and Spring won't be too shabby either.

I am really looking forward to this game - from an England perspective its a real chance to pick the youngsters that are pushing for places on the tour, have a look at how they work in the current system without capping or other EPS type restrictions.

BaaBaa's games generally have a free flowing mantra and the squad selection suggests this will continue, but with a sizeable pack to back it up.

This will be a great measure for Eddies squad selection team.

propdavid_london wrote:I am really looking forward to this game - from an England perspective its a real chance to pick the youngsters that are pushing for places on the tour, have a look at how they work in the current system without capping or other EPS type restrictions.  

BaaBaa's games generally have a free flowing mantra and the squad selection suggests this will continue, but with a sizeable pack to back it up.  

This will be a great measure for Eddies squad selection team.

Yeah, me too, mate. That's probably one of the better Barbarian teams I can recall in the last few years so this could be more than a simple run-out. On the other hand, that is probably the kind of test our young'uns need. Should be fascinating.

It's a bit surprising how many pundits are suggesting Jones has purposely included Danny Care just to keep him out of the Barbarians side. Austin Healey mentioned it in the Telegraph, as did Ryan Wilson and David Flatman on their respective podcasts.

(This is no pop at nlpnlp, who said the same above. A rugby fan forum is exactly the place to air that kind of idea.)

Jones has never given a monkey's what people think. A lot of pundits are convinced the greater the public clamour gets for a player, the less chance he has of being selected. There's no reason why he would suddenly be embarrassed by Care running riot for the Baa-baas.

In fact, when Chris Ashton scored freely for the Barbarians, Jones sounded him out about is availability for England. He may well have half an eye on George Kruis, in case the Twickenham experience ecourages the lock to rethink his retirement.

I just think a lot of pundits seem to dislike Jones, or at least err on the side of always assuming the worst for his motivations.

I don't really know why though, as he's been pretty successful (except for two pretty bad 6N's) and he is absolutely great for a sound bite for them.

Care's form is great, the only thing against him is that he's 36, so is going to be short term. Personally I'd still be looking to Mitchell as Quirke and van Poorvliet come through into the side. There are positives to having someone like Care come into a youngish group though and reinforce how special the environment is. He clearly desperately still wants to play for England.

yappysnap wrote:I just think a lot of pundits seem to dislike Jones, or at least err on the side of always assuming the worst for his motivations.

I don't really know why though, as he's been pretty successful (except for two pretty bad 6N's) and he is absolutely great for a sound bite for them.

I have become much more mixed in my opinions on Jones. I think he has been absolutely terrific for England at times. He was the perfect fit when he first came in and that tour to Australia was very special. I think in general his teams have played very well vs SH teams, but at home his record is more patchy, and this last 6N he seemed to be p!ssing around for the hell of it. I couldn't even bring myself to watch the French match at all.

lostinwales wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I just think a lot of pundits seem to dislike Jones, or at least err on the side of always assuming the worst for his motivations.

I don't really know why though, as he's been pretty successful (except for two pretty bad 6N's) and he is absolutely great for a sound bite for them.

I have become much more mixed in my opinions on Jones. I think he has been absolutely terrific for England at times. He was the perfect fit when he first came in and that tour to Australia was very special. I think in general his teams have played very well vs SH teams, but at home his record is more patchy, and this last 6N he seemed to be p!ssing around for the hell of it. I couldn't even bring myself to watch the French match at all.

I think a lot of people agree with you. Eddie Jones' results were terrific in his first four years. England seemingly won a zillion games and took England to the RWC final, where it should be fair to say England lost to a better team. Certainly was able to help put behind the 2011 and 2015 RWC performances. His current four year term is not doing nearly as well. Of course, the Covid impact cannot be underestimated, but everyone had to deal with it and England has underperformed by comparison. And, it is harder to deal with his public persona when England aren't delivering on his promises or expectations. Finally, to be fair, it is not easy to replace players whilst trying to squeeze performances out of the team. But, other teams have done it...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Care's form is great, the only thing against him is that he's 36, so is going to be short term. Personally I'd still be looking to Mitchell as Quirke and van Poorvliet come through into the side. There are positives to having someone like Care come into a youngish group though and reinforce how special the environment is. He clearly desperately still wants to play for England.

Care's form has been very good this season. At times has shown much better tactical performances which have tended to be his issue at the highest level often looking a much better finisher than starter. The tour to Australia should suit him and with Youngs almost certain to opt out and Eddie likely to turn to youthful options it makes sense to have the experience of Care there. Not sure he'll make the 6N but it's now in his hands.

Well if you watch Squidge rugby....
..right about now, you should start seeing some much better performances coming up from the England Boys....

Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

The match on Sunday is on Amazon Prime if anyone didn't know.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

He's not alone in thinking the best flyhalf in England this season plays outside of London. Then again last season it was the other way round. Nice to have options at 10.

If things click in Australia that would certainly be good timing. I suspect we'll do well down there and maybe in the AIs as tend to, it's often the 6N we find the hardest.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Care's form is great, the only thing against him is that he's 36, so is going to be short term. Personally I'd still be looking to Mitchell as Quirke and van Poorvliet come through into the side. There are positives to having someone like Care come into a youngish group though and reinforce how special the environment is. He clearly desperately still wants to play for England.

Care's form has been very good this season. At times has shown much better tactical performances which have tended to be his issue at the highest level often looking a much better finisher than starter. The tour to Australia should suit him and with Youngs almost certain to opt out and Eddie likely to turn to youthful options it makes sense to have the experience of Care there. Not sure he'll make the 6N but it's now in his hands.

More to the point, Care knows how to manage the game around Smith, which helps keep the latter free to run the attack. A Care - Smith - Farrell midfield would be very hard to shut down, because regardless of which one a defence targets there is still at least one player able to manage the game and one able to create something from nothing in attack available.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

He's not alone in thinking the best flyhalf in England this season plays outside of London. Then again last season it was the other way round. Nice to have options at 10.

If things click in Australia that would certainly be good timing. I suspect we'll do well down there and maybe in the AIs as tend to, it's often the 6N we find the hardest.

I think he's very much in the minority who thinks George Ford is the best fly half in the world. It's almost his mini selling point now like Jones calling for Dave Attwood or Cooper-Wooley for England at any given opportunity. Ford is great to have as 3rd choice.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

He's not alone in thinking the best flyhalf in England this season plays outside of London. Then again last season it was the other way round. Nice to have options at 10.

If things click in Australia that would certainly be good timing. I suspect we'll do well down there and maybe in the AIs as tend to, it's often the 6N we find the hardest.

I think he's very much in the minority who thinks George Ford is the best fly half in the world. It's almost his mini selling point now like Jones calling for Dave Attwood or Cooper-Wooley for England at any given opportunity. Ford is great to have as 3rd choice.

As a pure 10, Ford would be second choice for me, as he would be less of a change from Smith in style although offers more tactical control. Obviously when it comes to the match day 23, versatility comes into it, and Farrell's ability at 12 and 10 allows us more flexibility from the bench rather than someone like Ford who can only really cover one position.

doctor_grey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I just think a lot of pundits seem to dislike Jones, or at least err on the side of always assuming the worst for his motivations.

I don't really know why though, as he's been pretty successful (except for two pretty bad 6N's) and he is absolutely great for a sound bite for them.

I have become much more mixed in my opinions on Jones. I think he has been absolutely terrific for England at times. He was the perfect fit when he first came in and that tour to Australia was very special. I think in general his teams have played very well vs SH teams, but at home his record is more patchy, and this last 6N he seemed to be p!ssing around for the hell of it. I couldn't even bring myself to watch the French match at all.

I think a lot of people agree with you.  Eddie Jones' results were terrific in his first four years.  England seemingly won a zillion games and took England to the RWC final, where it should be fair to say England lost to a better team.  Certainly was able to help put behind the 2011 and 2015 RWC performances.  His current four year term is not doing nearly as well.  Of course, the Covid impact cannot be underestimated, but everyone had to deal with it and England has underperformed by comparison.   And, it is harder to deal with his public persona when England aren't delivering on his promises or expectations.   Finally, to be fair, it is not easy to replace players whilst trying to squeeze performances out of the team.  But, other teams have done it...

You can accept bad results if there is something positive to come out of them, which typically means blooding new players. Picking off form players you know are going to do badly just seems unnecessarily masochistic.

dummy_half wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

He's not alone in thinking the best flyhalf in England this season plays outside of London. Then again last season it was the other way round. Nice to have options at 10.

If things click in Australia that would certainly be good timing. I suspect we'll do well down there and maybe in the AIs as tend to, it's often the 6N we find the hardest.

I think he's very much in the minority who thinks George Ford is the best fly half in the world. It's almost his mini selling point now like Jones calling for Dave Attwood or Cooper-Wooley for England at any given opportunity. Ford is great to have as 3rd choice.

As a pure 10, Ford would be second choice for me, as he would be less of a change from Smith in style although offers more tactical control. Obviously when it comes to the match day 23, versatility comes into it, and Farrell's ability at 12 and 10 allows us more flexibility from the bench rather than someone like Ford who can only really cover one position.

Very much. Smith has the shirt now and that makes a lot of sense to me. Ford is probably the most adaptable 10 we have and can slot into the team for whatever we need. Bed Smith in and give us options towards the World Cup. If Smith can't refind his AI form by next year's 6N he can be slotted in as backup/impact and we know Ford will do a classy job at the world cup. No point adding to Ford's caps now and not giving Smith the base of experience he's going to need to be a viable world cup option.

No room for Henry Arundell in England's 23 for Sunday.

Freeman, Cokanasiga, Marchant, Atkinson, May, Smith, Randall; Rodd, Walker, Collier, Ewels, J Hill, Curry (c), Underhill, Dombrandt

Singleton, Goodrick-Clarke, Schickerling, Lawes, Willis, Care, Bailey, Norwell

https://twitter.com/bencoles_/status/1537759969394688000?s=12

The Barbarians midfield will contain Botia and Vakatawa

1.Jean-Baptiste Gros
2.Pierre Bourgarit
3.Beka Gigashvili
4.George Kruis
5.Will Skelton
6.Dylan Cretin
7.Charles Ollivon (C)
8.Yoan Tanga
9.Batiste Couilloud
10.Antoine Hastoy
11.Davit Niniashvili
12.Levani Botia
13.Virimi Vakatawa
14.Damien Penaud
15.Max Spring

Why Ewels?? Just... why?

Well it's a good overall team with in my mind what the combos should be in the back row ie the starters and Willis. Shame no Arundell, just seems a lost chance to throw him in there and personally I think there are a few better options than Nowell on the wing though he could be covering midfield.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well it's a good overall team with in my mind what the combos should be in the back row ie the starters and Willis. Shame no Arundell, just seems a lost chance to throw him in there and personally I think there are a few better options than Nowell on the wing though he could be covering midfield.

Yeah, shame there aren't many new faces out in the backline other than Freeman. That's usually what's fun about these games. Guess May and Nowell do need the gametime given they are likely in Eddie's plans to take both to Oz. EJ seems wedded to the Cokanasiga experiment (especially with Manu out), so we'll see how it goes.

Ewels is an underwhelming selection, but as soon as the training squad was selected, it was clear he was going to start.

For guys like Arundell and Joseph, they'll at least get a clear run at the U20s series that starts next week.