The Welsh Regions and the URC

First topic message reminder :

I was reading the latest article on WOL the other day titled How to save Welsh rugby - The uncomfortable truth facing our game and the difficult solutions that need to be explored. There was the usual nonsense spouted, and the demonising of the semi pro game getting too many votes and the what not, but it did get me thinking, especially the bit about reducing the waste and fixing the pathways. Here is the link if any of you are interested:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-save-welsh-rugby-uncomfortable-23671119

What started me thinking was how the regions could live within their means and still be competitive, and to be honest, they cannot. Then I started thinking about the league since it's inception and the regions involvement, has it really been a success ?

Trophy wise you could argue a point, but then I started thinking a little more. Leinster and Ulster aside, the Welsh regions average about the same attendances as the rest, but on derby day the Welsh regions get full houses. So the question I wanted to ask, is the league a good thing for Welsh rugby ?

Wales is a small place, and the teams rely on ALL the fans, both home and away. Would playing in a Welsh league do more for Welsh rugby than the league they are in now ? The teams would get bigger crowds I would wager. It is far easier to travel from Newport to Llanelli than it is from any Welsh region to Glasgow or Dublin. Would we get a lot more "full" stadiums if it were Welsh teams playing Welsh teams every week ? At the moment, the regions just rely on their own fans turning up, and none of the regions have a massive city like Dublin, or a whole country like Ulster to back them up.

I know a Welsh league would struggle to get the TV money the URC can generate, but would the extra fans at the ground make up for it ? I don't know, I'm no expert in these things, all I can say is what I bare witness to, and the URC is not very popular here in Wales, even after the best part 20 odd years, it's been messed around with too much, and people do not know what they are following anymore, changes of structure, changes of tv companies ect.....

I would like to see a 8/10 team Welsh league, with the best players from "each region" playing in a 4 team end of season regional league, where the top two go into the the top tier Euro comp, and the bottom two go into the lower Euro comp. Yes the regions still compete in Europe, but the players also represent their clubs in the league, rekindle the old rivalries, which still have the embers burning by the way.

Also, I would like to see a shake-up of the coaches in Wales, there are far too many jobs for the boys, people getting highly paid at the regions to do jobs that most people volunteer to do in the leagues below. Even though most of the article is just personal opinion, there is a lot to surmise from reading it.

Also, can we please debate the article and the subject, and not me.

What are the thoughts of other fans on this subject ?

So can the conversation go back to the original point now? Welsh rugby is in a difficult place. I’m guessing from what I read on the last page that private sources of revenue were brought up as a possible solution. What else?

Well Eddie Butler wants all the regions scrapping and watching an amateur Welsh league because the matches aren't sold out. Not sure how that's supposed to improve anything though.

Eddie is stupid. How is he still a commentator? He gets names wrong and always confuses the ball carrier with another player, he does it in every game.

He reads Kipling over stirring images and soundtrack? Cotter is far and away the premier 'BBC' commentator.

mikey_dragon wrote:Eddie is stupid. How is he still a commentator? He gets names wrong and always confuses the ball carrier with another player, he does it in every game.

I've noticed that & it's a bit concerning.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Eddie is stupid. How is he still a commentator? He gets names wrong and always confuses the ball carrier with another player, he does it in every game.

I've noticed that & it's a bit concerning.

It's been that way for at least 3 years...

This myth that by either playing English opposition or playing local derbies will somehow bring back the crowds is just plain silly. The main reason our regions are not that well supported is purely on the product they are serving up. If they either produced an attractive game or a winning one most regions would have far better attendances than they currently do. Sure each region will have a draw limit purely based on their geographical locations and populations.

In my mind ironically the least well funded regions in Wales probably has the biggest potential in terms of pulling in crowds. We saw in the Brown era they could easily pull 10K+ crowds. Cardiff probably the second highest potential, I'll be honest here west wales should never have had 2 regions to begin with. If the Scarlets fielded a New Zealand 15 each week I doubt they could reach 10K purely based on the fanbase there. They simply don't have the numbers over there.

That's not me saying we should be going down to three either but to be honest 1 of the 4 should have been based in North Wales to begin with. We have seen some bigger attendances at Wales U20 games up there than some of the regional attendances.

Since the new stand at the Dragons, Rodney Parade now only has an 8700 capacity! Impossible to match the glory days of 10,000+! So not a great deal of room for growth and expansion. Unless they build/find a new stadium. Which of course = £££. Need to be selling RP out regularly first though of course, before thoughts of moving on

Welshmushroom wrote:

That's not me saying we should be going down to three either but to be honest 1 of the 4 should have been based in North Wales to begin with.  We have seen some bigger attendances at Wales U20 games up there than some of the regional attendances.  

Why on earth should there be a region in North Wales? They have zero rugby infrastructure, produce very few quality players compared to South Wales and have no money to pay towards professional rugby.

They get 7k for Wales under 20s? Cardiff gets 73,000 for Wales seniors and that doesn't guarantee any success for Cardiff rugby. Absolutely non-sensical to drain even more resources to such a terrible concept.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

That's not me saying we should be going down to three either but to be honest 1 of the 4 should have been based in North Wales to begin with.  We have seen some bigger attendances at Wales U20 games up there than some of the regional attendances.  

Why on earth should there be a region in North Wales? They have zero rugby infrastructure, produce very few quality players compared to South Wales and have no money to pay towards professional rugby.

They get 7k for Wales under 20s? Cardiff gets 73,000 for Wales seniors and that doesn't guarantee any success for Cardiff rugby. Absolutely non-sensical to drain even more resources to such a terrible concept.

Simply put for you the reason for this is its all about Fan limits. Look at the Scarlets for example - assuming you could put a winning side out every week and even if they have 50% of everyone in in the area turning up they would struggle for an 8K attendance. At the moment half the time they can barely put together 5K. By contrast the Dragons under the same premise would be drawing from a pool of about 125K based on 50% of the local area population. North Wales still has a third of the population in Wales. In term of rugby fan growth it represents a far better chance to increase engagement in rugby than West Wales.

I agree with your point about infrastructure, but your resource point makes zero sense. The funding would be exactly the same as currently. All im saying is the Scarlets will always have a glass ceiling that I would argue they have already reached.

Do you really think Wales would not long term benefit from having pro rugby in North Wales?

Welshmushroom wrote:

Simply put for you the reason for this is its all about Fan limits.  Look at the Scarlets for example - assuming you could put a winning side out every week and even if they have 50% of everyone in in the area turning up they would struggle for an 8K attendance.  At the moment half the time they can barely put together 5K.  By contrast the Dragons under the same premise would be drawing from a pool of about 125K based on 50% of the local area population.  North Wales still has a third of the population in Wales.  In term of rugby fan growth it represents a far better chance to increase engagement in rugby than West Wales.  

I agree with your point about infrastructure, but your resource point makes zero sense.  The funding would be exactly the same as currently.  All im saying is the Scarlets will always have a glass ceiling that I would argue they have already reached.  

Do you really think Wales would not long term benefit from having pro rugby in North Wales?

I see absolutely zero benefit to Welsh rugby, be it short, medium or long term. North Wales is a rugby wasteland. Their team would barely be Welsh premiership standard, unless the WRU leeched valued resources into it which would otherwise go to other areas of pro rugby.

In short: All pro teams in Wales would be collectively worse on and off the field.

Just for info, this thread has to be locked as threads aren't supposed to go past 20 pages.

As there was a new discussion started today, I moved the three posts to a new thread. LD should be able to edit it as he sees fit then.

https://www.606v2.com/t70715-welsh-club-rugby-discussion