England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

First topic message reminder :

Joe Root has decided to step down from the captaincy. Main problem now is - who should take over?

Stokes is the only one really in contention. But should he be lumbered with the captaincy? His workload is immense as it is. But if he doesn't take the job, then who?

Let's hope Root's stepping down doesn't effect his batting! Captaincy cares hardly showed in his stats over the last few months.

Duty281 wrote:The First Class Counties XI chasing 264 to defeat New Zealand, and Sibley and Compton have manoeuvred them to 69/0.

Scrap the current England selection, call up the FCCXI.

FCC XI win by 7 wickets, Compton with 119 in the second innings. Get Sibley, Burns and Hameed on the next plane to Zimbabwe!

Good win. I'm counting it as the first test, so it's 1-0 England.

Compton might be up for England selection soon. It's a family tradition, plus his FC average (early days) is nearly 70.

A shame for Compton that it wasn't a F-C match hence didn't get the 1000 F-C runs before the end of May. It's a cracking story of a late bloomer though. 5 centuries already this season!

Compton is an example of why it's so important to keep looking at players regardless of age in a sport such as cricket. It's why I always valued the MCCU setup and was sad to see it lose F-C status.

Ollie Robinson has now tested positive for Covid. I don't know how many mirrors he has broken or ladders he has walked under to get to this point.

Sky's commentary team for the summer will include Eoin Morgan and Jofra Archer. Morgan will be commentating on the first test (injury has put him out of some T20 games for Middlesex) and Archer will be involved later in the summer.

Any predictions for the series? I think New Zealand will win 2-0, with one test becoming a rain-interrupted draw, but 3-0 certainly wouldn't be a surprise. England's best chance of getting a win should be in the first test as that is when NZ will be at their least prepared and settled, but England's record at Lord's isn't the best with only two wins from the last six tests played there (one of those wins being v Ireland). I'd be staggered if England managed even a drawn series, but they are favourites with the bookmakers, and I like the 7/4 you can get on NZ to win the series and the 12/1 on a 3-0 Kiwi win is worth a nibble. New Zealand's bowling, and the lovely variety of seam, should destroy England's flimsy batting, and then they've got enough proven quality in their batting ranks (Conway, Nicholls, Williamson, Latham) to pile up the runs. And, of course, England being England, one of the lesser-lauded Kiwi players, such as CdG or Mitchell, will likely score a century at some point.

There will also be one home umpire and one neutral umpire for this series, a return to near-normality. Gough and Tucker have got the first test.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeDobell1/status/1531252987426922498

For the love of christ England don't pick Craig Overton over Stuart Broad because he (supposedly) is slightly better at batting - even though since 2019 Broad actually averages more (12.88) than Overton (10.50).

England are hilarious. Overton over Broad would be typical England. I remember Giles over Panesar in 2006 v Australia for the first two tests because Giles might score 10 more with the bat than Monty, or something. Seems as though it'll be Bairstow over Brooks, also.

NZ have named a 15 man squad for the first test:

New Zealand squad: Kane Williamson (capt), Tom Blundell (wk), Trent Boult, Devon Conway, Colin de Grandhomme, Cam Fletcher (wk), Matt Henry, Kyle Jamieson, Tom Latham, Daryl Mitchell, Henry Nicholls, Ajaz Patel, Tim Southee, Neil Wagner, Will Young, *Michael Bracewell (cover).

Boult and Nicholls are in the squad, but both are unlikely to feature. Boult just back from the IPL, Nicholls carrying an injury.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/GeorgeDobell1/status/1531252987426922498

For the love of christ England don't pick Craig Overton over Stuart Broad because he (supposedly) is slightly better at batting - even though since 2019 Broad actually averages more (12.88) than Overton (10.50).

I was expecting both to play. From 6 onwards - Stokes, Foakes, Overton, Leach, Broad, Anderton.

Who or what am I missing?

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://twitter.com/GeorgeDobell1/status/1531252987426922498

For the love of christ England don't pick Craig Overton over Stuart Broad because he (supposedly) is slightly better at batting - even though since 2019 Broad actually averages more (12.88) than Overton (10.50).

I was expecting both to play. From 6 onwards - Stokes, Foakes, Overton, Leach, Broad, Anderton.

Who or what am I missing?

Dobell seems to be intimating Potts is playing whatever…which I agree is a bit confusing. Hoping maybe (?) he’s just forgotten him in his report/tweet, but he’s not usually one to get something like this from thin air…

Yes, I do think Potts is playing as well, most of the media in the last couple of days seems to have given that impression. But I would have favoured the last call being Potts v Overton, not Overton v Broad!

We need Coverton to terrify New Zealand with that 75mph short pitched bowling

Duty281 wrote:Yes, I do think Potts is playing as well, most of the media in the last couple of days seems to have given that impression. But I would have favoured the last call being Potts v Overton, not Overton v Broad!

So it is basically this;

Lees
Crawley
Pope
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes (wk)
Overton/Broad
Potts
Leach
Anderson

Has anyone seen Potts play/bowl before? I am presuming classic 83-85mph English seamer? Averages 17 with the bat in first class cricket with a couple of fifties...suggests he can at least hold the bat. Exciting that they seem keen on him, to the point he might play over Broad!

I am unsure whether Potts or Overton will play - and to be quite honest I am not certain which would be the better choice so am prepared to leave it to Stokes and McCullum. I do hope to see Potts at some point in the series ; and I suspect we will , whatever happens on Thursday. Really don't care for the notion of Broad being the one to miss out though ! Surely Dobell is fantasizing with that idea ? Remember Brisbane...

Though I suppose leaving him out to stir him up and inspire amazing season figures worked OK in 2020

Seriously , from all we have read from Key and others , Broad and Anderson are nailed on for this first game - fitness being OK. And presumably Leach is playing so it really is between CO and Potts.

Rest of the team appears as expected. Brooks was always likely to be "reserve" bat : rewarded for his good form by being in the squad and obviously marked as next man up ... given England's habit of batting disasters that means he shouldn't have to wait too long for an opportunity !

I am not as pessimistic as Duty. NZ have lost a couple of important players from last year and this time England aren't entering with a side shorn of several first choice players. I reckon the series is very much 50-50. Hoping for decent weather and a pitch that isn't like some of these county games seem to have been played on ; as 600 plays 550 is not what I watch the game for...

Yeah, he's about 83-85 MPH, but the Telegraph notes he has the potential to hit 90 (unsure if he can). He's never played at Lord's before, unless you count one game of the Hundred, and he's suffered quite a bit with injuries, hence why he made his debut in 2017 but has only played 24 FC matches to this point. Leading wicket-taker in all county cricket this season. albeit in Division Two.

I see also Lords are struggling with ticket sales, and are blaming it on the jubilee weekend/celebrations...

Definitely not that it would require a second mortgage to take a family for the day lads

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I see also Lords are struggling with ticket sales, and are blaming it on the jubilee weekend/celebrations...

Definitely not that it would require a second mortgage to take a family for the day lads

I'm going on Friday. That's if the trains are running.

Day 2 should be fine. Will get to see England's 2nd innings.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I see also Lords are struggling with ticket sales, and are blaming it on the jubilee weekend/celebrations...

Definitely not that it would require a second mortgage to take a family for the day lads

That and the complete over saturation of the cricketing schedule. We played New Zealand last year at home FFS. Expect they were probably trying to find a way to fit in 5 Tests vs India as well

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I see also Lords are struggling with ticket sales, and are blaming it on the jubilee weekend/celebrations...

Definitely not that it would require a second mortgage to take a family for the day lads

From the Telegraph:

‘Paul Burnham, co-founder of the Barmy Army, said he blames "the recession, Queen's celebration, poor red-ball form and entertainment level very slow/poor and no Barmy Trumpeter allowed" for the slow sales’

Spot the odd one out… Surely he is on the wind up.

The reliable Will MacPherson thinks it will be Overton to miss out. He’ll be saved for the flat decks like he has been throughout his Test career so far!

Excited to see Potts. You know he isn’t quick when he’s not even getting Saqib hype about his pace and Saqib isn’t that quick. Looks to get some steepling bounce and not rely overly on swing, which could be interesting.

Another nugget from MacPherson’s piece was Potts has never played a red ball game at Lords. Ironically he was rested when Durham played there this year - which was the right call, but does mean he’s only bowled his 4 5 balls sets there competitively. God Bless the Hundred giving our Test players that kind of experience.

England have named a squad for the showpiece event of the summer - the three match ODI series v the Dutch which, confusingly enough, is taking place in between the second and third tests v NZ.

England squad: Eoin Morgan (captain), Moeen Ali, Jos Buttler, Brydon Carse, Sam Curran, Liam Livingstone, Dawid Malan, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, David Willey, Luke Wood.

No Billings. Curran returns. Willey remains. Wood and Payne may make debuts. Carse gets another go. Buttler will play after a stupendous stint in the IPL. It's funny how dominated the squad is by left-arm seamers!

This is actually England's first lot of ODI games since July 2021, which is a heck of a break. The World Cup isn't until October 2023, so there's plenty of preparation time for England to try to defend their title.

The Netherlands are currently playing the first of three v the West Indies today, and heading for defeat. But the Dutch did make 240 from 45 overs (rain-affected) which indicates their batting has some punch.

First test team confirmed with Anderson, Broad and Potts all starting, Overton missing out. That'll be one heck of a tail, but it's a good thing England have a strong and resolute batting order to ensure that won't be an issue. Pope at 3 and Bairstow at 5...not something I can grasp.

Still awaiting news of the Kiwi team.

Will be plenty of cloud around through the test, probably a bit of rain too, but not enough to put the result in jeopardy.

Duty281 wrote:First test team confirmed with Anderson, Broad and Potts all starting, Overton missing out. That'll be one heck of a tail, but it's a good thing England have a strong and resolute batting order to ensure that won't be an issue. Pope at 3 and Bairstow at 5...not something I can grasp.

Still awaiting news of the Kiwi team.

Will be plenty of cloud around through the test, probably a bit of rain too, but not enough to put the result in jeopardy.

Listening to the Sky Cricket Podcast, Simon Doull reckoned it would be:

Latham, Young, Kane, Conway, Mitchell, CDG, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Henry, Patel.

I’m not as plugged in as he is, but with Nichols injured and Kane in poor form that looks a beatable line up. With the traditional massive if that it requires England to bat like something resembling a proper Test team.

Long tail indeed. But to be honest with Woakes and Curran not around it was basically impossible to come up with a solid looking number eight ... Overton has played the odd decent late hand but he's hardly a Test allrounder...

The top three remains "work in progress". Hopefully one or two of them will rise to the occasion. Four to seven isn't too bad on paper : Root should enjoy being back at four (and with less other stuff on his mind) and it may not matter too much that YJB and Stokes have swapped places : I know Jonny has a much better record at six than five but surely it shouldn't make that much difference? His two recent centuries have come after getting at about 40/4 so you'd hope he won't be in much earlier this week

It certainly isn't Strauss Cook Trott Pietersen Bell etc ... but hopefully they can get enough runs to be competitive - and the bowlers can do a job in conditions that might suit them . They have enough extra incentive with Potts on debut and A&B out to prove a point or two...

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:First test team confirmed with Anderson, Broad and Potts all starting, Overton missing out. That'll be one heck of a tail, but it's a good thing England have a strong and resolute batting order to ensure that won't be an issue. Pope at 3 and Bairstow at 5...not something I can grasp.

Still awaiting news of the Kiwi team.

Will be plenty of cloud around through the test, probably a bit of rain too, but not enough to put the result in jeopardy.

Listening to the Sky Cricket Podcast, Simon Doull reckoned it would be:

Latham, Young, Kane, Conway, Mitchell, CDG, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Henry, Patel.

I’m not as plugged in as he is, but with Nichols injured and Kane in poor form that looks a beatable line up. With the traditional massive if that it requires England to bat like something resembling a proper Test  team.

No Wagner ?

That looks a very good top four, even if Williamson is out of form, but with a potentially soft middle-order and similarly long tail. Suspect it'll be a good batting track, so a chance for Williamson to play himself back into form. Then of course Conway who scored 200 here last year. Top notch seam bowling as well, Jamieson one of the best in the world, and Southee loves bowling at Lord's with 6/43 last year and an overall average of below 26 for his 20 wickets overall. Henry over Wagner would be a surprise.

If England can post 350+ in the first innings they're in the hunt. But I think England will be massively relying (again!) on Root and Bairstow to do the bulk of the lifting. Stokes and Foakes out of form in tests, and the top three is the usual mess. Seam attack looks decent on paper, certainly better than in the West Indies series, but it is one-paced and I wonder what they'll be able to do with a soft ball if the Kiwis are something like 150/2. Add in England's usual struggles in the first test of a series and their lukewarm record at Lord's...

But, having said that, this is England's best chance of a win in this series. Williamson will only get stronger, Nicholls will return at some point, and Boult will probably be bowling for the second and third test.

alfie wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:First test team confirmed with Anderson, Broad and Potts all starting, Overton missing out. That'll be one heck of a tail, but it's a good thing England have a strong and resolute batting order to ensure that won't be an issue. Pope at 3 and Bairstow at 5...not something I can grasp.

Still awaiting news of the Kiwi team.

Will be plenty of cloud around through the test, probably a bit of rain too, but not enough to put the result in jeopardy.

Listening to the Sky Cricket Podcast, Simon Doull reckoned it would be:

Latham, Young, Kane, Conway, Mitchell, CDG, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Henry, Patel.

I’m not as plugged in as he is, but with Nichols injured and Kane in poor form that looks a beatable line up. With the traditional massive if that it requires England to bat like something resembling a proper Test  team.

No Wagner ?

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that was what he thought would happen too. Guess we will have to wait and see… And it makes so much more sense to leave England guessing than naming the team the day before like England do. I can’t see a benefit to it at all.

JDizzle wrote:

alfie wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

Duty281 wrote:First test team confirmed with Anderson, Broad and Potts all starting, Overton missing out. That'll be one heck of a tail, but it's a good thing England have a strong and resolute batting order to ensure that won't be an issue. Pope at 3 and Bairstow at 5...not something I can grasp.

Still awaiting news of the Kiwi team.

Will be plenty of cloud around through the test, probably a bit of rain too, but not enough to put the result in jeopardy.

Listening to the Sky Cricket Podcast, Simon Doull reckoned it would be:

Latham, Young, Kane, Conway, Mitchell, CDG, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Henry, Patel.

I’m not as plugged in as he is, but with Nichols injured and Kane in poor form that looks a beatable line up. With the traditional massive if that it requires England to bat like something resembling a proper Test  team.

No Wagner ?

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that was what he thought would happen too. Guess we will have to wait and see… And it makes so much more sense to leave England guessing than naming the team the day before like England do. I can’t see a benefit to it at all.

I suspect they would like Henry to slot in and take the new ball ahead of Wagner (ie. Boult's role) - I'd see the choice for them more whether they play the spinner in Patel, or Wagner for that final spot in the frontline attack. I'd guess with both CDG and Mitchell set to play in the absence of Nicholls, they'd go with the extra spinner...as between CDG/Mitchell you can get enough 4th seamer overs in English conditions.

But as you say, leaving folk guessing to the last minute is not a bad idea...(I am always with you on this point JDizzle, leave the oppo guessing to the last moment!) - although I think part of the issue for England is they have so many journos covering them, their thinking is bound to be found out through just watching training etc beforehand anyways...

I don't think the tail is any longer than when Archer or Overton were at 8. I support getting the best 3 seamers there, Potts sounds potentially a much better bowler than Overton. Broad can be dangerous at 9 or even 10, he does have the ability still to score a Test fifty

Got the tipping competition up and running. It should be a competitive series.

https://www.606v2.com/t70696-2022-england-v-new-zealand-tipping-competition#4039729

Hope everyone's well and you have a great summer of cricket ahead!

I’m not a huge Latham fan. He averages 33 in England, 26 in Aus, 36 in India and then 3 in SA! Admittedly that is better than any English opener can boast. I would hope Broad can gobble him up being a leftie too. If they can get an out of form Kane in early and often they will be huge.

Conway is class, but it is an all rounder heavy middle order. That is the optimistic spin if you are English!

JDizzle wrote:I’m not a huge Latham fan. He averages 33 in England, 26 in Aus, 36 in India and then 3 in SA! Admittedly that is better than any English opener can boast. I would hope Broad can gobble him up being a leftie too. If they can get an out of form Kane in early and often they will be huge.

Conway is class, but it is an all rounder heavy middle order. That is the optimistic spin if you are English!

On paper the sorts of 'bits and pieces' all rounders that England moved away from 15-20 years ago. The problem is that when we picked them they'd average 25 with the bat and 45 with the ball (if we were lucky), yet somehow playing against us they'll (CDG for example) average 45 with the bat and 25 with the ball...

I really don't understand the England selection - Crawley isn't a Test match opener, but may in time become a decent #3. Lees didn't look any better than Sibley / Burns / etc in the Windies, although has made runs early season. Compton seems to be the form opener this summer, and presumably his chance will come unless the two selected openers spring a surprise.
Pope at 3? Again, feels a triumph of hope over experience, as he's had several chances and has yet to consistently bring his county form to the Test arena, and is now batting in a position he rarely if ever does for Surrey.
Root and 4 is one of very few unquestionable picks.
Bairstow lucky to be in at 5 given his lack of red ball cricket and Brooks' form this summer. Prefer Foakes as a keeper/batsman than Bairstow as a batsman/keeper at 7 for now though (I still advocate picking the better keeper as long as he knows one end of a bat from the other).
Stokes at 6 is probably the right spot. Hopefully he's fit to bowl proper spells and not just short bursts.
Foakes at 7 I don't mind - form was poor over the winter, both with the bat and gloves, but averaging virtually 100 with the bat so far this summer. Others can probably address his form behind the stumps.
Broad and Anderson are probably still our best two seamers in English conditions, although whether they can stay fit and healthy through the summer remains to be seen.
Don't mind Potts being selected, especially given the list of absentees. More potential upside than Overton.
Leach - Under pressure from Parkinson, but has had a couple of decent outings for his County recently.

Duty281 wrote:England have named a squad for the showpiece event of the summer - the three match ODI series v the Dutch which, confusingly enough, is taking place in between the second and third tests v NZ.

England squad: Eoin Morgan (captain), Moeen Ali, Jos Buttler, Brydon Carse, Sam Curran, Liam Livingstone, Dawid Malan, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, David Willey, Luke Wood.

No Billings. Curran returns. Willey remains. Wood and Payne may make debuts. Carse gets another go. Buttler will play after a stupendous stint in the IPL. It's funny how dominated the squad is by left-arm seamers!

This is actually England's first lot of ODI games since July 2021, which is a heck of a break. The World Cup isn't until October 2023, so there's plenty of preparation time for England to try to defend their title.

The Netherlands are currently playing the first of three v the West Indies today, and heading for defeat. But the Dutch did make 240 from 45 overs (rain-affected) which indicates their batting has some punch.

Ha!

Keep in mind though that there won't be much (if any) 50 over game time for England's players other than ODIs before the 2023 World Cup. The RL50 is in effect largely now a second eleven competition as all the leading and even better than average players depart their counties when it starts to take part in The Hundred which runs alongside.

dummy_half wrote:
...
Foakes at 7 I don't mind - form was poor over the winter, both with the bat and gloves, but averaging virtually 100 with the bat so far this summer. Others can probably address his form behind the stumps.
...

Foakes has missed a bit of cricket this season with a stiff back but has been very good when keeping, largely to a seam attack as much favoured so far by Surrey.

I'm a massive admirer of his glovework and have been for some time. The concern I have at Test level is that he doesn't impose himself sufficiently. I thought this was particularly noticeable in the winter Tests when he failed to take effective control of reviews.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:England have named a squad for the showpiece event of the summer - the three match ODI series v the Dutch which, confusingly enough, is taking place in between the second and third tests v NZ.

England squad: Eoin Morgan (captain), Moeen Ali, Jos Buttler, Brydon Carse, Sam Curran, Liam Livingstone, Dawid Malan, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, David Willey, Luke Wood.

No Billings. Curran returns. Willey remains. Wood and Payne may make debuts. Carse gets another go. Buttler will play after a stupendous stint in the IPL. It's funny how dominated the squad is by left-arm seamers!

This is actually England's first lot of ODI games since July 2021, which is a heck of a break. The World Cup isn't until October 2023, so there's plenty of preparation time for England to try to defend their title.

The Netherlands are currently playing the first of three v the West Indies today, and heading for defeat. But the Dutch did make 240 from 45 overs (rain-affected) which indicates their batting has some punch.

Ha!

Keep in mind though that there won't be much (if any) 50 over game time for England's players other than ODIs before the 2023 World Cup. The RL50 is in effect largely now a second eleven competition as all the leading and even better than average players depart their counties when it starts to take part in The Hundred which runs alongside.

Yes, that's true. And part of me feels that we'll be looking back on a failed World Cup campaign in 2027 or 2031 asking whether it was really such a good idea, in effect, to bin domestic 50 over cricket.

Will 50 over cricket remain a key part of the program is an interesting question there? It would certainly seem the most vulnerable format to me in the overcrowded schedule.

Test cricket is vulnerable in many nations but it's simply worth too much for the BCCI, ECB and CA for them to allow it to die as quickly as some predict.

Question: should we set up a separate thread for the England/NZ Tests or just do them on this ?

And a couple of notes by the way :

Happy for Moeen getting his OBE He seems possibly open to a return to Tests if Baz asks nicely , perhaps for an Asian tour ? Not sure about that as he still strikes me as somewhat ambivalent but will wait and see...

And on a sadder note the passing the other day of Jim Parks doesn't seem to have had an RIP on here unless I have missed it : was a feisty batsman and decent enough keeper for England back in the sixties... his batting on the 65/66 Ashes tour was very effective. Also a Sussex icon for many years , though he ended up at Somerset. Reckon he'd have done well at the white ball game if it had been invented earlier...

Two hours to the off : how's the weather over London ?

Should be good weather wise for today Alfie - Sunday/Monday might be an issue if we get that far

Thanks , Olly. Suppose a three day Test is always a chance with England these days

But sounds promising for a proper match . Be interesting to see what is in the pitch for the bowlers , given the high scores that seem to have been going all around the county games this year ?

alfie wrote:Thanks , Olly.  Suppose a three day Test is always a chance with England these days

But sounds promising for a proper match . Be interesting to see what is in the pitch for the bowlers , given the high scores that seem to have been going all around the county games this year ?

Lords usually one of the better batting grounds in England too these days - I suspect it’ll do a little early but the first few days be good for batting. But I haven’t seen any pitch photos doing the rounds

Brace yourselves, lads, apparently Trent Boult will be playing.

NZ win the toss and bat first - Boult does indeed play alongside Southee and Jamieson, with Patel as spinner

England would’ve batted first too Stokes confirms

Not the worst toss to lose. Should be a bit around for the bowlers early and days two and three are usually very good to bat on at Lord's.

NZ's seam bowling looks terrifyingly brilliant, however.

What a grab by Bairstow!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What a grab by Bairstow!

The way he contorted his wrist after catching it to make sure he didn’t grass it was superb.

The evergreen James Anderson gets Will Young who should have let it go.

This new Anderson fella they’ve brought in looks good

Anderson's recent travails in the second innings are well documented but he is still lethal in the first. Both bowlers putting it in the right areas from the get go, neither great balls for the wickets but the hard work has been done elsewhere.

Captaincy's easy when you've got Anderson bowling like this and Bairstow catching like that.

We have our first bowlers diving to save one run on the boundary is not a risk worth taking of the summer shout here

Absolutely dislike players making kamikaze dives just to save one or two runs. Not worth it. Hope Leach is alright.

Duty281 wrote:Captaincy's easy when you've got Anderson bowling like this and Bairstow catching like that.

Yes but the previous captain decided (or agreed) Anderson shouldn't bowl and often had Bairstow keeping rather than in the slips.

Decent this pair