Prem Weekend 22-24 April - Round 23

Friday
Bristol v Gloucester
Falcons v Irish

Saturday
Bath v Saints
Quins v Tigers
Wasps v Worcester

Sunday
Saracens v Exeter

Newcastle Falcons team v London Irish (Friday, 7.45pm, Kingston Park Stadium)

15 Tom Penny,
14 Mateo Carreras,
13 George Wacokecoke,
12 Max Wright,
11 Ben Stevenson,
10 Joel Hodgson,
9 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 George McGuigan,
3 Trevor Davison,
4 Philip van der Walt,
5 Sean Robinson,
6 Josh Basham,
7 Will Welch (captain),
8 Callum Chick.

Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Freddie Lockwood, 20 Gary Graham, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Will Haydon-Wood, 23 Adam Radwan.

London Irish:
15 Tom Parton,
14 Kyle Rowe,
13 Curtis Rona,
12 Benhard van Rensburg,
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins,
10 Paddy Jackson,
9 Nick Phipps;

1 Will Goodrick-Clarke,
2 Agustin Creevy,
3 Ollie Hoskins,
4 Rob Simmons,
5 Adam Coleman,
6 Matt Rogerson (captain),
7 Tom Pearson,
8 Albert Tuisue.

Replacements: 16 Matt Cornish, 17 Facundo Gigena, 18 Marcel van der Merwe, 19 Steve Mafi, 20 Sean O’Brien, 21 Ben White, 22 Will Joseph, 23 Henry Arundell.

Referee: Karl Dickson.

Actually a really big game for LI. Wheels have come off in the league a bit with three straight losses and now nervously trying to make sure we don't finish 9th (assume it's still top 8 for HC), which would be a disaster given the position we were in a month or two ago.

Only three games left and we really need to win a couple of them, hopefully starting here.

Karl Dickson

He hates us more than you Heaf...your ok this weekend...

Saints travelling to Bath? I am not saying this is a banana skin from hell, but I hear Saints supporters are making their travel arrangements using hearses.

Well fortunately It sounds like I missed a horror show at KP.

Reports state that we were simply atrocious...whilst Karl Dickson is the worst tip flight ref full stop.

A few of my pals are sending official notes to the club and the RFU to have him demoted. Be interesting to see if they get any communication back.

I went to the Andre Rieu concert....was bloody amazing

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well fortunately It sounds like I missed a horror show at KP.

Reports state that we were simply atrocious...whilst Karl Dickson is the worst tip flight ref full stop.

A few of my pals are sending official notes to the club and the RFU to have him demoted. Be interesting to see if they get any communication back.

I went to the Andre Rieu concert....was bloody amazing

To be fair to Dickson (and he is the worst ref on the circuit), he actually had an okay game.

I know I would say this, but most of the calls they were complaining about on the Newcastle board were actually fine. The try was scored by Rowe. Robinson yellow was correct - cynical play coming from the wrong side playing at the ball a metre from his tryline to prevent the offload after a break. The playing the ball off feet, Davison (I think) was horizontal attempting the jackal not supporting his weight. Penalty count was actually about equal rather than 'only reffing one side'.

I'm a bit miffed by the double red, but both players were stupid getting involved and giving him a decision to make.

Was good to get the win at KP after getting thrashed there this time last season, which was a real low. Newcastle look like they could do with a freshen up behind the scenes. Other than some individual brilliance from Nordli-Kelemeti and Carreras they were fairly easy to defend against and played fairly predictably with ball in hand.

The whole set up needs shaken to rhe core.

Easter is away...and just aswell I'm not he understands he's the defence coach.

Looks like Mark Wilson is coming in. He's barely qualified as a coach but surely he can improve what we currently have.

The attack is rhe BIG problem though. Ponderous, unintelligent, predictable, unable to think on their feet...there's been no change since Dean has been in charge.

Its genuinely time Dean moved on...and take Walder with him.

That is next level genius officiating from Barnes. Different class to the likes of Tempest and Dickson.

Close to a red I think

No. Apparently a pen against Harlequins. Don't think I can agree with that.

What was his reasoning? It's utterly incomprehensible from the stands.

Poorfour wrote:What was his reasoning? It's utterly incomprehensible from the stands.

Dombrandt pushed marler so was deemed to be the one endangering the player. I could understand that as mitigation but its greens shoulder high challenge which is the dangerous thing there for me. Or you'd have to say every latch is dangerous as they're providing more ballast and speed.

As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Whilst I think its the first time I've seen a team being pinged for it, if they are serious about safety they need to get it out of the game.


Gives players no time to adjust, both the tackler and ball carrier.

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Watching the replays you can see Marler speeds up with the push. Barnes said it gave no time for the tackler to adjust.

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Anyone else see the mile forward pass for Quins first try.... had to be Barnes lol

nathan wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Watching the replays you can see Marler speeds up with the push. Barnes said it gave no time for the tackler to adjust.

Possible mitigation certainly.

nathan wrote:Anyone else see the mile forward pass for Quins first try.... had to be Barnes lol

Nope.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Needs stamping out of the game still, although I don't agree with Barnes. Thought it should have been a yellow with the mitigation being the push giving the tackler or carrier tome to adjust.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

nathan wrote:Anyone else see the mile forward pass for Quins first try.... had to be Barnes lol

Nope.

The pop pass was forward.

No more than Nadolo for the 2nd Leicester. Looked fine.

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Needs stamping out of the game still, although I don't agree with Barnes. Thought it should have been a yellow with the mitigation being the push giving the tackler or carrier tome to adjust.

The point of dangerous play for your own players does come up plenty though. It is normally an ignored point.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Needs stamping out of the game still, although I don't agree with Barnes. Thought it should have been a yellow with the mitigation being the push giving the tackler or carrier tome to adjust.

The point of dangerous play for your own players does come up plenty though. It is normally an ignored point.

I'm not sure we are in the normal times anymore though. The number of cards given recently would back that up.

No 7&1/2 wrote:No more than Nadolo for the 2nd Leicester. Looked fine.

Disagree.

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:No more than Nadolo for the 2nd Leicester. Looked fine.

Disagree.

Shocked I tell you.

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Needs stamping out of the game still, although I don't agree with Barnes. Thought it should have been a yellow with the mitigation being the push giving the tackler or carrier tome to adjust.

The point of dangerous play for your own players does come up plenty though. It is normally an ignored point.

I'm not sure we are in the normal times anymore though. The number of cards given recently would back that up.

Looked a certain red to me. More so than the two in previous week's Tigers have had. Got off on a technicality. Quins got off on a technicality moments later with their lineout defence on the ropes. Sort of evens out.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:As far as I could see on the replay in the ground, Dombrandt had lost contact with Marler at least a second before the tackle though, so I don't see how there wasn't time to adjust

Yeah. If he grabbed him and held on its legal so I find it an odd ruling. Poor challenge for me.

Needs stamping out of the game still, although I don't agree with Barnes. Thought it should have been a yellow with the mitigation being the push giving the tackler or carrier tome to adjust.

The point of dangerous play for your own players does come up plenty though. It is normally an ignored point.

I'm not sure we are in the normal times anymore though. The number of cards given recently would back that up.

Looked a certain red to me. More so than the two in previous week's Tigers have had. Got off on a technicality. Quins got off on a technicality moments later with their lineout defence on the ropes. Sort of evens out.

More conventional challenge I suppose.

Genge looking good straight away. Your back row looks so so.

Lol. Too big for a quick tap out hands.

GeordieFalcon wrote:The whole set up needs shaken to rhe core.

Easter is away...and just aswell I'm not he understands he's the defence coach.

Looks like Mark Wilson is coming in. He's barely qualified as a coach but surely he can improve what we currently have.

The attack is rhe BIG problem though. Ponderous, unintelligent,  predictable,  unable to think on their feet...there's been no change since Dean has been in charge.

Its genuinely time Dean moved on...and take Walder with him.

Yeah, definitely feels like it needs a bit more than just Walder being promoted.

Wilson might work out in the coaching team. Untried coaches can be hit and miss, but are usually only a disaster when given one of the top jobs (head coach etc).

Ford not having a great game

Watch Cole pull the scrum down now!

Inept. Quins knocked it on

You didn't complain about the offside for your last pen though? Bit of luck for both sides.

Touch surprised that Harlequins are going for points. Perhaps they still have that last minute in the 2stvleg against Montpellier in their minds.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You didn't complain about the offside for your last pen though? Bit of luck for both sides.

I'm sure there is. But that was worth 7 points, just like the clear forward pop pass for the first.

I know you won't agree.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Watch Cole pull the scrum down now!

That's all Collier did for the entire first half. You do what you can get away with.

Pleased with an LBP away at Quins with half a dozen internationals missing and able to limit the game time for some key players. Good contest and a good watch.

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You didn't complain about the offside for your last pen though? Bit of luck for both sides.

I'm sure there is. But that was worth 7 points, just like the clear forward pop pass for the first.

I know you won't agree.

It was worth 5 points. And yours 3. And if you pick out 1 error and ignore others it's a bit pointless. Refs will makes mistakes. Players more. They thought there was no knock on. Or forward pass. Just as they thought there was no obstruction for your first try and no forward offload for your second.  Swings and roundabouts and tbf Harlequins deserved a close win.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Watch Cole pull the scrum down now!

That's all Collier did for the entire first half. You do what you can get away with.

Pleased with an LBP away at Quins with half a dozen internationals missing and able to limit the game time for some key players. Good contest and a good watch.

Indeed you do. Gotta do. Tbf that scrum was the most stable of the game.

Saints squeak it 31-36, try at the death around 82nd minute by Haywood.

Great comeback by Saints 4 tries in the last 15 minutes to pinch it in the end. Bath were down to 13 men and would have been down to 12 if the final score had not been at the death. That should put Saints into 4th Place with a game in hand not counting Chiefs playing tomorrow.

Come on You Saints!!!!!

Frustrating to see Tigers fluff two restarts in the second half in such a close game. Those are the sort of basics we'll have to get right to win trophies.

To take Quins so deep away from home and get the LBP with a lot of players missing or benched is a still a strong performance though. Montoya, Dolly, Chessum, Martin, Reffell, van Staden, Kelly, Porter and Steward missing entirely. Genge, Cole, Wells and Wiese starting from the bench.

Collier was dominating van Wyk even if he was playing the game as all good props should. I've rated Collier a while and mentioned him several times on England threads. If he can stay fit he's a prop that does the basics well.

Once Nadolo went off Tigers were really lacking in attack though. Wiese added go forward as always but we were certainly lacking running threats overall. Kelly and Porter have been very good in that regard this season so were missed. Montoya and Genge are usually very strong there too. Chessum is stronger than Snyamn or Green in the carry as well by running clever lines at pace. So there are reinforcements to come there but still a clear weakness in this depleted side.

Apparently it's a new WR directive given to refs re the push that Dombrandt gave. Don't like the secret things they slip in without writing it into the rules and putting it on websites etc. Stupid directive in my view.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Apparently it's a new WR directive given to refs re the push that Dombrandt gave. Don't like the secret things they slip in without writing it into the rules and putting it on websites etc. Stupid directive in my view.

A necessary directive but you'd have thought have published something about it more visibly. I wonder if Green will still get cited as it was more of a red card than the last two Tigers have seen.

It's a very sensible directive, good on WR. Without Dombrandt's shove, it's just a normal tackle to the chest with no harm attached. Because of it, Marler took a blow to the head.

Stupid directive. Its allowed another high hit go completely unpunished. Tackler never in position to do so safely.

Hope he does get banned but can't see it if this directive has been brought in.

On a completely related topic really good interview with Thompson on the BBC yesterday. Basically saying he has no real memories of his pro rugby career. Related article below as his book comes out soon I believe.

Steve Thompson: Rugby World Cup winner says he was 'put on suicide watch' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61200369

No 7&1/2 wrote:Stupid directive. Its allowed another high hit go completely unpunished. Tackler never in position to do so safely.

Hope he does get banned but can't see it if this directive has been brought in.

Pfft there's no consistency whatsoever in how high tackles are treated it's a complete lottery.

Barnes did pull out a couple of technically correct calls on quick succession at the end of the first half. Not sure many other refs would have brought the push into the equation or spotted the long arm ball movement at the maul.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Stupid directive. Its allowed another high hit go completely unpunished. Tackler never in position to do so safely.

Hope he does get banned but can't see it if this directive has been brought in.

Pfft there's no consistency whatsoever in how high tackles are treated it's a complete lottery.

Barnes did pull out a couple of technically correct calls on quick succession at the end of the first half. Not sure many other refs would have brought the push into the equation or spotted the long arm ball movement at the maul.

It was getting there but then crazy decisions like this start to unravel everything. Given that WR have said to cracking down on pushes like Dombrandts you have to say that Barnes has got it correct. It's just not sensible of we want players to tackle correctly.