Prem Weekend 22-24 April - Round 23

First topic message reminder :

Friday
Bristol v Gloucester
Falcons v Irish

Saturday
Bath v Saints
Quins v Tigers
Wasps v Worcester

Sunday
Saracens v Exeter

Beeb wrote:London Irish: Arundell; Stokes, Joseph, Rona, Cinti; Reid, White; Van der Merwe, Willemse, Parker, Munga, Nott, Cooke (capt), Donnell, Tuisue.

Replacements: Cornish, Dell, Hoskins, Mafi, Cunningham-South, Englefield, Atkins, Cokanasiga.

Leicester Tigers: Hegarty; Browning, Murimurivalu, JP Socino, Saumaki; Lancaster, Van Poortvliet (capt), Whitcombe, Cowan-Dickie, Leatigaga, Douglas Bridge, L Chessum, Hall, Ilione, Jansen.

Replacements: Vanes, Richardson, Hurd, Agbongbon, Koroiyadi, Edwards, Cusick, Woodward.

Thought I'd pop the PRC semi-final stuff here rather than make a new thread.

Irish stronger than Tigers on paper and at home are big favourites I'd have to say. Especially with Dell, Hoskins, Mafi and Cokanasiga to fire off the bench.

Tigers have a loan players from Nottingham (Hall) and Loughborough (Douglas Bridge) in the starting XV and a very inexperienced bench.

Jansen has impressed me for Tigers so I hope he goes well again and isn't feeling it too much from the Quins game. Tuisue is a player I really rate so good competition for him.

Ilione is a huge talent also in the back row.

From what I've seen of Lancaster so far he is very raw indeed and plays a long way behind the gain line which could be an issue against a good LI midfield. Rona and Murimurivalu in either centre partnership should be fun though!

I think Lancaster my end up playing more at 12 though he'll have to toughen up to do that in a Borthwick centre combination. 

I'd have thought the cost of Rona and Mafi would probably equal most of the Tigers 23. Going to be a big ask for Tigers there as LI are going hard at this one. LI can definitely score a lot of points quickly as well with that backline so any slip ups are likely to be punished. I'm expecting LI to finish strong as well as Atkinson improved them in the early PRC game and there's some good experience there.

Glad Browning is getting another go and same with Lewis Chessum. Bit worried there's still no Henderson and Manz, those lads have had no luck at all with injury this season, or last season for Manz. Woodward is one that's causing a stir from the academy ranks, a do it all 12 by all accounts so be interesting to see if he comes on and how he does. Bit harsh on Agbongbon to be on the bench as he was good last time out.

Certainly a stronger line up than LI put out the other week against you guys. Big problem the was the scrum. Remains to see whether that will have been sorted here. Never seen van de Merwe play loosehead and Parker isn't that strong at scrum time as tight heads go.

Clearly need to win given that they are doubling up on a few players. A loss would be pretty disappointing.

I'd be surprised if LI have issues at scrum time. Whitcombe is a really talented LH but Leatigaga (a player I rate very highly as an impact sub on the LH side) isn't a strong scrummager at TH. He can 'do a job' on both sides but is much stronger on the LH. TCD is a strong Championship hooker but I'm yet to see much to show more than that to be honest. Given Vanes has been starting for Notts I'm a touch disappointed he hasn't be trusted here frankly.

Cam Henderson's injuries this season are such a shame. He was starting on merit in the Prem at the end of last season. Given how Ollie Chessum has progressed and been capped by England you have to wonder how Henderson might have pushed on this season if he'd stayed fit.

This Tigers side is the reality of competing on three fronts with slightly smaller squads now the cap has come down. I'm hoping Tigers take on a slightly bigger crop for what they call the development squad (first senior conracts out of school for the graduating U18s) for next season due to this.

I've no qualms with that LI side though I'd add. There are plenty of young lads there for it to constitute a reasonable PRC selection. That side isn't the same as what other sides have done, definitely including Tigers in this, when reaching the AWC/PRC KOs and suddenly naming near full strength with some notional fringe players smattered here and there largely due to injuries.

Yeah, it's still fundamentally a second choice 15, with a few first teamers and a strong bench (in the pack at least). Albeit far more experienced than the Leicester team fielded. We've been helped by the Friday/Tuesday/Sunday run of games, which is a little kinder on recovery than it could have been.

White vs JVP could be interesting to watch given it's the latter's emergence that probably made put an end to White's Leicester days.

Thought this was an interesting view following on the chat around reds and high tackles etc. lifted it from Walesonline who stole it from eslewhere!

'All Blacks greats Jeff Wilson John Kirwan has called for players to be personally fined unless they change their tackling behaviour.

Red cards and high tackles are very much on rugby's agenda at the moment, with a raft of sending offs blighting matches in Europe and the southern hemisphere in recent weeks. Despite the punishments and subsequent bans, player behaviour seems to be very slow changing.

Speaking on Sky Sport NZ’s The Breakdown, All Blacks great Jeff Wilson slammed the players for not adapting.

“Once again we suffered, we had a weekend with cards, littered with penalties,” Wilson said. I’m getting frustrated right now because I’m not seeing any changes in behaviours from the players. They are the ones that are responsible. We are quite often putting it on the referees, putting the challenge on them.

“How about the players making some concessions? We are not seeing changes in behaviour. Are we just supposed to get used it? “We expect to see cards every week, it’s unacceptable.”

Fellow All Blacks legend Sir John Kirwan agreed with Wilson, suggesting financial punishment needs to be brought in to get the message through.'

Don't really agree with that. The problem with fines is that their severity differs wildly depending on who you're fining (unless you're going to means test it)

A fine that may be pocket change to a marquee player, would impact an academy lad or fringe player much more.

I'd probably look at the punishment framework. At the moment you seem to have to commit murder to actually get the full tariff ban wise. Pretty much every high tackle ban is mid range, three weeks (six halved for guilty plea). Even repeat offenders don't seem to get a huge increase. The way to impact behaviour is to make the players unmarketable by forcing them to spend more time on the side lines.

Clubs would probably just pay the fines for the players.

A lot of these high tackles are unintentional. A tackler aims for the chest of a ball-carrying player, then that ball-carrier dips or turns at the last moment and high contact is made. It's fine margin, split-second stuff in a high-intensity sport. I don't think those accidental contacts can ever be eradicated, unless it was only made legal to tackle below the waist. But I don't think anyone wants that.

You could make a rule against it so that it'd just be Saracens and Leicester who pay it for them!

Of course if there is a significant change of height the players shouldn't be penalised as per the laws. Players should be being told to tackle lower if they don't have the intelligence to realise they can't hit players in the head!

Players facing some level of personal responsibility for high tackles would help, but it would have to be structured in the right way. Perhaps an escalating scale of ban without mitigation for contrition and good behaviour?

Re: the PRC game, LI's front row were pretty impressive against an (admittedly quite rusty) Quins front row when we met them in the pool game. Leicester's backups will need to have their wits about them.

I see both red cards issued by Dickson at the weekend have been rescinded ...

Heaf wrote:I see both red cards issued by Dickson at the weekend have been rescinded ...

If only Dickson could be rescinded as a Premiership referee.

Duty281 wrote:

Heaf wrote:I see both red cards issued by Dickson at the weekend have been rescinded ...

If only Dickson could be rescinded as a Premiership referee.

You want him to focus only on being an official in internationals?

Wouldn't the Championship benefit from his experience. He'll also have the benefit of fewer TMOs.