URC=Better League

First topic message reminder :

Been a great season from this fan's point of view. Lost this evening to a better team, but it's a great result for the league overall.

Big budgets don't necessarily win you competitions.

Great performances and some great match-ups this season.

Still two matches to go and it could end up with an SA team winning the comp in only their third season of involvement. Or Ulster setting the benchmark for others to follow.

Doesn't it worry any of you though, that the regions are not keeping these players and they are being lured away by the "schools" in England ? Especially if the second tier clubs are attracting them, is it just another incident of mismanagement from our regions ?

Although this is probably for another thread.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

My main point is Italy and South African don't have the money the WRU and IRFU are spending on it.  So in order to level the field you would essentially have to take it from some Unions and give it to other Unions.  I doubt anyone would agree for this to happen.

The most likely scenario is that each union funds each of their teams equally.  Now that would be achievable but that would impact Leinster in a major way.  

I do hope the WRU scrap the elite system and simply fund each of the 4 regions equally and let them all have a level playin field.

What incentive would there be for a team to produce 1 Wales player, if it gets the same amount of money as a team producing 20 players?

Currently there are already limitations how a region can recruit.  They can only have squads containing 6 non qualified welsh players and that needs to be signed off by the WRU before the transfer can occur.  Also the Wales 60 cap rule will keep them in Wales regardless.  Even if a region doesn't want to produce players for Wales they still have to have 90% of their squad available for Wales purely by being eligible.  All that will happen with equal funding across the board is that we won't have team hogging talent in certain positions to deny the other regions.  Historically speaking the regions have just been poaching the talent from other regions just to keep their funding up.

Surely sides that are starting to develop players for Wales shouldn't have them poached by better funded welsh regions once they get capped by Wales.  

 

I'd have thought that the likes of Simon Muderack won't be signing up to anything that sees his team funded the same as the Dragons.

Well David Buttress mention on one of the Scrum V podcasts they are looking at the systems in place and they are already looking at the funding issues under the current model. He seemed confident they would find a fairer model than our current system.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:  Every union must sign up to it to compete in the URC - regardless of whatever "hold" amateur club reps have.   Either the union signs up to it, or they don't compete.   A single union being held to ransom by its amateur club owners/directors is of no benefit to any union.  

I agree with this.  Which is why Unions should be nowhere near domestic rugby. It would basically be privately run businesses signing up to the possibility of making themselves less productive. The South Africans would be unlikely to sign up to it I'd have thought.

Well, the unions are hardly going to allow the 3 Welsh private-owner tail to wag the five-union/13-team URC dog.  So if the teams "privately-owned" want to compete then they follow the financial and operational rules.   They get a certain amount of funding each year - guaranteed - from their union to be spent only on playing/coaching resources.  No more elite 38, or central contracts, or whatever.   Players selected for test duty get additional payment in the usual ways - match fees, performance bonuses, etc.    Oh - and an agreed test window for player selection.  No more payments for extra weeks.   Decide on the window and that's it.  

Sounds sensible. As long as they all agree, and the money is right it will be fine.

Hmmm - I'm still allowing that individual teams can raise additional income from their gates/sponsors, etc to boost their playing budget. And that unions would have a requirement to invest X amount in their development pathways.

LordDowlais wrote:Doesn't it worry any of you though, that the regions are not keeping these players and they are being lured away by the "schools" in England ? Especially if the second tier clubs are attracting them, is it just another incident of mismanagement from our regions ?

Although this is probably for another thread.

What are the Welsh regions supposed to do about the level of education in Wales?

There aren't many colleges of the quality of Millfield in Llanelli.

Welshmushroom wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

My main point is Italy and South African don't have the money the WRU and IRFU are spending on it.  So in order to level the field you would essentially have to take it from some Unions and give it to other Unions.  I doubt anyone would agree for this to happen.

The most likely scenario is that each union funds each of their teams equally.  Now that would be achievable but that would impact Leinster in a major way.  

I do hope the WRU scrap the elite system and simply fund each of the 4 regions equally and let them all have a level playin field.

What incentive would there be for a team to produce 1 Wales player, if it gets the same amount of money as a team producing 20 players?

Currently there are already limitations how a region can recruit.  They can only have squads containing 6 non qualified welsh players and that needs to be signed off by the WRU before the transfer can occur.  Also the Wales 60 cap rule will keep them in Wales regardless.  Even if a region doesn't want to produce players for Wales they still have to have 90% of their squad available for Wales purely by being eligible.  All that will happen with equal funding across the board is that we won't have team hogging talent in certain positions to deny the other regions.  Historically speaking the regions have just been poaching the talent from other regions just to keep their funding up.

Surely sides that are starting to develop players for Wales shouldn't have them poached by better funded welsh regions once they get capped by Wales.  

 

I'd have thought that the likes of Simon Muderack won't be signing up to anything that sees his team funded the same as the Dragons.

Well David Buttress mention on one of the Scrum V podcasts they are looking at the systems in place and they are already looking at the funding issues under the current model.  He seemed confident they would find a fairer model than our current system.

What's fair for the Dragons and fair for the Scarlets /Ospreys will be two very different things.

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:  Every union must sign up to it to compete in the URC - regardless of whatever "hold" amateur club reps have.   Either the union signs up to it, or they don't compete.   A single union being held to ransom by its amateur club owners/directors is of no benefit to any union.  

I agree with this.  Which is why Unions should be nowhere near domestic rugby. It would basically be privately run businesses signing up to the possibility of making themselves less productive. The South Africans would be unlikely to sign up to it I'd have thought.

Well, the unions are hardly going to allow the 3 Welsh private-owner tail to wag the five-union/13-team URC dog.  So if the teams "privately-owned" want to compete then they follow the financial and operational rules.   They get a certain amount of funding each year - guaranteed - from their union to be spent only on playing/coaching resources.  No more elite 38, or central contracts, or whatever.   Players selected for test duty get additional payment in the usual ways - match fees, performance bonuses, etc.    Oh - and an agreed test window for player selection.  No more payments for extra weeks.   Decide on the window and that's it.  

Sounds sensible. As long as they all agree, and the money is right it will be fine.

Hmmm - I'm still allowing that individual teams can raise additional income from their gates/sponsors, etc to boost their playing budget. And that unions would have a requirement to invest X amount in their development pathways.  

Phew. I'm sure it will be fine then. Us Welsh are minted.

LordDowlais wrote:Doesn't it worry any of you though, that the regions are not keeping these players and they are being lured away by the "schools" in England ? Especially if the second tier clubs are attracting them, is it just another incident of mismanagement from our regions ?

Although this is probably for another thread.

No it does bother me. Part of the current plight in my opinion is specifically the lack of development in young players the last 5 years at a regional level. Its why the Regions are now filled with a ton of senior players who will never make it past next years World Cup. At some stage will need to start blooding players ready for 2027 and it's hard to see where exactly that squad will come from when you look at the regional squad age profiles.

The idea with regional rugby should have been to keep current internationals and combine them with youth. What we are now seeing though is Regions hold on to players who are past their best when most countries tend to move those people on to be replaced with the next generation of players. The issue with them going to England means they are not in control of how those youngsters develop.

But the Regions rarely have a plan past the actual year we are in and it needs to change. We saw in Scotland that both Edinburgh and Glasgow's success today was based on work they started 5-6 years ago in terms of development.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

I'm not sure what a regional youth player signing for a semi pro side in England shows anything of note.  If anything it shows how bad Regional rugby has been of late for giving chances to youngsters who feel they have better development pathways playing in England.

In terms of the Pro Game more players are heading back to Wales than are going to the Premiership.

Younger players normally leave for England due to education reasons don't they? Rees-Zammit etc?

Not sure the example LD has put forward is a great one. Harry Fry has not left for education reasons. At least, not this time. He studied at Hartpury when younger, ended up in the Gloucester academy, and was then signed by Dragons. However, now he's 21 and is surplus to requirements at the Dragons as we've strengthened in that area with Rhodri Jones and Rob Evans coming in. Simply put, he just didn't break through into the Dragons squad. He says so himself. He was therefore playing for Newport RFC and on loan to Hartpury to get some game time. And they've not taken him on permanently.

Not really mismanagement by the regions then. That's an easy line to trot out, but sometimes the regions have full squads and can't just employ someone because they are Welsh.

Exactly. He was signed, had his chance, didn't work out, and now he's decided to pursue the English 2nd tier. He played for England U18 too, apparently.

His brother Ben Fry, on the other hand, played Wales U16, U18 and U20 and has forced his way into the Dragons squad and has earned a pro contract.

It's a case of 'works out for some and not for others'. That's pro sport. Just the other week we were criticised for playing and paying players who were not good enough!

So what about those Italian teams, eh?

Pot Hale wrote:So what about those Italian teams, eh?

This could be Zebras last year. The favourites to replace them are Petrarca. I think this is the right decision, FIR are clearly incapable of running a competitive side.

LordDowlais wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Plus you probably would see some of the Stars of the bigger funded teams heading offshore which probably would hurt the various unions.

Has this happened in England ?

The fact you had to ask this worries me greatly. I mean it couldn't be any clearer it's happening, this has been the hottest topic for prem fans since the season started.

There are usually numerous reasons why our academy players go and join English academies, and premiership teams. Education is one yes. Money, more game-time, security among others. LRZ playing for Glaws worked out well for us. Josh Adams playing for Wuss worked out well for us. Imagine the coming season where Exeter are the top team in England again, and have Jenkins and Tshiunza starting at 2nd row - that would be good for us too.

Ospreys have loaned some academy players to Pirates, seeing as they have potential but aren't getting game time. I think that's a great idea. If they come good then they'll be picked up.

It seems a bit strange for WOL to do an article about Harry Fry leaving Dragons for Hartpury, when he hasn't made one appearance for us. I don't recall there being an article announcing us signing him, praising us for bringing another WQ player home and a search seems to suggest it was just tagged onto an article when we were in advanced talks with Jamie Roberts. It's clear what WOL's agenda is there.

Perhaps people may need to read the article fully,  although they headline with Harry Fry, they also finish with this:-

Fry follows a number of other regional players in moving to the second-tier English Championship. Wales wing Jonah Holmes has joined Ealing Trailfinders after leaving the Dragons, while his now former back-three team-mate Will Talbot-Davies is off to Coventry. Cardiff trio Garyn Smith, Alun Lawrence and Ben Murphy have signed for the Cornish Pirates, Jersey and Doncaster respectively, with Wales U20s No 8 Morgan Strong switching to Ampthill from the Ospreys. wrote:

Are these players not good enough ? Or are the semi pro clubs in England offering more than what the regions are ?

LordDowlais wrote:Perhaps people may need to read the article fully,  although they headline with Harry Fry, they also finish with this:-



Are these players not good enough ? Or are the semi pro clubs in England offering more than what the regions are ?

I doubt there's just one answer for all of them, LD. You have to look at cases individually. Holmes is, in my opinion, good enough. However, he clearly came to Wales to get into the Welsh international squad and his path has been blocked due to Pivac not selecting him and other players coming through in what is a competitive position. You see, with the 60 cap rule, even though it has its merits, it does force players to move to Wales when perhaps they don't want to. And then when Wales selection isn't likely they move back to where they want to live (he's from Ealing).

Will Talbot-Davies was just not good enough. One of those very average players that the Dragons are often criticised for employing. Seems like a nice lad but not a top level pro for me. I guess you'll have to ask him whether he would have stayed if he was offered a new contract at Dragons, but I reckon he would have stayed. But it just wasn't on offer. So it's not like he's been signed from under our noses - he was released.

There is no salary cap in the Championship and Ealing are looking to spend big to get promoted. That with the relative lateness of release meant that was the best move form Holmes. Most Prem teams are cutting their cloth after the reduction for a couple of years in their cap.

English clubs bringing in youngsters (younger than Fry) risks them becoming dual qualified and reduces the time they could spend in the Wales camp if picked but it's not a bad move overall for a lot of these guys.

LordDowlais wrote:Perhaps people may need to read the article fully,  although they headline with Harry Fry, they also finish with this:-



Are these players not good enough ? Or are the semi pro clubs in England offering more than what the regions are ?

Sorry, I didn't see you highlight that in your initial post. I personally don't think any of those players are of note, aside from Holmes. Smith is possibly a solid club player, but as Oracle says we get criticised for playing players like that. I am not sure he would command a regular shirt at any of the teams, even with internationals missing etc. Dragons would certainly play Dixon, Tomkinson and Clark ahead of him, even if Owen was with Wales. Even Holmes didn't finish the season as first choice for Dragons, to be fair (Dyer and Rosser first choice, Hewitt now fit again).

The Oracle wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Perhaps people may need to read the article fully,  although they headline with Harry Fry, they also finish with this:-



Are these players not good enough ? Or are the semi pro clubs in England offering more than what the regions are ?

I doubt there's just one answer for all of them, LD.  You have to look at cases individually.  Holmes is, in my opinion, good enough.  However, he clearly came to Wales to get into the Welsh international squad and his path has been blocked due to Pivac not selecting him and other players coming through in what is a competitive position.  You see, with the 60 cap rule, even though it has its merits, it does force players to move to Wales when perhaps they don't want to.  And then when Wales selection isn't likely they move back to where they want to live (he's from Ealing).  

Will Talbot-Davies was just not good enough.  One of those very average players that the Dragons are often criticised for employing.  Seems like a nice lad but not a top level pro for me.  I guess you'll have to ask him whether he would have stayed if he was offered a new contract at Dragons, but I reckon he would have stayed.  But it just wasn't on offer.  So it's not like he's been signed from under our noses - he was released.

Fair enough.

No 7&1/2 wrote:There is no salary cap in the Championship and Ealing are looking to spend big to get promoted. That with the relative lateness of release meant that was the best move form Holmes. Most Prem teams are cutting their cloth after the reduction for a couple of years in their cap.

English clubs bringing in youngsters (younger than Fry) risks them becoming dual qualified and reduces the time they could spend in the Wales camp if picked but it's not a bad move overall for a lot of these guys.

Just to be clear and for accuracy, Holmes was offered a new contract but declined it. So his 'release' was his decision to leave rather than not being offered a contract.

The Oracle wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:There is no salary cap in the Championship and Ealing are looking to spend big to get promoted. That with the relative lateness of release meant that was the best move form Holmes. Most Prem teams are cutting their cloth after the reduction for a couple of years in their cap.

English clubs bringing in youngsters (younger than Fry) risks them becoming dual qualified and reduces the time they could spend in the Wales camp if picked but it's not a bad move overall for a lot of these guys.

Just to be clear and for accuracy, Holmes was offered a new contract but declined it.  So his 'release' was his decision to leave rather than not being offered a contract.

Late decision then, realise he didn't think the offer was up to what he believed he was worth. The timing more than anything is why he's ended at Ealing as they don't have to plan as much with no upper ceiling wage wise to meet.

What exactly is the funding model of he SA teams? Sorry for this ignorant question but I barely looked ant their pro sides pre URC. Are they private/ union owned? Party or mostly funded by the union?

This article will provide you some insight.

Have people a preference as to where next year's final is held?

Should it be highest seed like this year or should the location be decided in advance?

In myopinion it is only fair the team on top of the log gets home advantage. But I can understand the thinking of changing it around.

I think the URC had planned to set a final destination early in the season.

You do have to wonder if it's a good idea though.  I mean if you set the game to be played in say Ireland and then 2 South African teams got there how well attended is the game going to be.

At least if you set it at the stadium of one of the finalists you are guaranteed to have a turnout

Agree Neil

I've never been a big fan of playoffs at the end of the season and think it is only fair that any advantage should go to the higher finishing club. When combined with the travel difficulties inherent in a multi-country league, the only sensible solution is to go with the higher finisher as you say Old Man.

I tend to agree it should be at location of highest seed of the finalists. Revenues from the final mostly go to URC central and they need funding to develop various parts of the comp including ref development, marketing/promotion, technology assistance, amongst other issues. A full-house with best revenues is the ideal - it's a showcase event.

What was very noticeable was the marked lack of any reporting in UK print media on the final. It seems to generate very little coverage year-in, year-out. Even the Super Rugby final was covered, along with the Eng v Baa-baas match. I don't know whether it's a deliberate editorial policy or simply deemed of no interest to fans in Wales, Scotland or England. It did receive coverage in Irish print and online media outlets such as RTE, Irish Times, Irish Examiner, 42.ie, etc. Perhaps others saw some in UK media that I didn't pick-up. BBC did do a piece on its website, but beyond that, didn't see anything.

I think it is a deliberate ploy, the same in OZ and NZ papers, nomention of the URC final, but they cover the Leicester vs Saracens final, the baabaas.

Whether it is political, or simply not wanting to cover it, it seems SA is shunned by the Antipodeans

It's not political or a deliberate ploy in the slightest. Put your conspiracy theories away. The media outlets are catering for their viewership.

There is no appetite for it. Barely anyone in Wales watches the URC. It's an invisible league. Nobody cares. Very few can even tell you where the Stormers or Lions or Bulls play their rugby etc.

As for England? - even fewer care. Why would they? The English Premiership is a much more visible tournament with millions more in the UK watching and reading about it. That's because it's a proper league, where all the teams play each other home and away, it has a sensible salary cap and traditional rivalries / history.

The URC is probably on a par with something like speedway or archery in terms of popularity here.

Or, I'm throwing it out there that there was only 1 team which could be considered as British from the semis onwards which will colour the sports editors views on coverage in British media.

I didn't see any coverage on the sports bulletins of any Scottish side or Ulster in the knockouts.

Try and dress it up as you wish, and find excuses. But the harsh reality is that it's an unsellable competition that very few people care about.

Everyone likes what they like Rugbyfan. You prefer watching the Prem and that's ok. Others will follow the URC, others the French league. There's only a finite amount of matches people can fit in.

Why are the Welsh in the URC if nobody cares about it?

Old Man wrote:Why are the Welsh in the URC if nobody cares about it?

Because they can't get out, as there's no alternative.

So they would rather not support the only comp available than embrace what is?

RugbyFan100 wrote:I didn't see any coverage on the sports bulletins of any Scottish side or Ulster in the knockouts.

Try and dress it up as you wish, and find excuses. But the harsh reality is that it's an unsellable competition that very few people care about.

South African fans seem to care about it....who are not exactly "very few"....Super Rugby is discovering what its competition is like without SA viewer numbers...and that is: not very super...

Pot Hale wrote:I tend to agree it should be at location of highest seed of the finalists.   Revenues from the final mostly go to URC central and they need funding to develop various parts of the comp including ref development, marketing/promotion, technology assistance, amongst other issues.   A full-house with best revenues is the ideal - it's a showcase event.

What was very noticeable was the marked lack of any reporting in UK print media on the final.  It seems to generate very little coverage year-in, year-out.  Even the Super Rugby final was covered, along with the Eng v Baa-baas match.   I don't know whether it's a deliberate editorial policy or simply deemed of no interest to fans in Wales, Scotland or England.   It did receive coverage in Irish print and online media outlets such as RTE, Irish Times, Irish Examiner, 42.ie, etc.  Perhaps others saw some in UK media that I didn't pick-up.   BBC did do a piece on its website, but beyond that, didn't see anything.

I can't speak for Scotland or NI as I simply do not know, but from a Wales perspective the print media has always been very Anglo-centric. Or rather, the big print media (Times, Guardian, Independent, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Express, etc) is printed and sold across England and Wales (possibly Scotland and NI too?) and doesn't really have any regional versions. They just sell the same newspaper here. So the content is produced for the readership. As England has about 17 times the population of Wales the content tends mainly to be about English things, and as England teams are not in the URC I guess there is less inclination to cover it? Not a complaint, just an observation. We only have 1 national newspaper in Wales (the Western Mail, i.e. Wales Online) - I believe they covered it, at least the online version did. And then after that we just have local newspapers such as the South Wales Argus. But yes, UK (or at least, English/Welsh) print media is written for the English, mainly.

Old Man wrote:So they would rather not support the only comp available than embrace what is?

You don't embrace something that is killing you.

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:I didn't see any coverage on the sports bulletins of any Scottish side or Ulster in the knockouts.

Try and dress it up as you wish, and find excuses. But the harsh reality is that it's an unsellable competition that very few people care about.

South African fans seem to care about it....who are not exactly "very few"....Super Rugby is discovering what its competition is like without SA viewer numbers...and that is: not very super...

I think he's talking specifically about the UK - i.e. Wales, Scotland and NI - as that is what Pot Hale was referring to when he talked about lack of coverage.

Mr Fishpaste wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:I didn't see any coverage on the sports bulletins of any Scottish side or Ulster in the knockouts.

Try and dress it up as you wish, and find excuses. But the harsh reality is that it's an unsellable competition that very few people care about.

South African fans seem to care about it....who are not exactly "very few"....Super Rugby is discovering what its competition is like without SA viewer numbers...and that is: not very super...

Clearly, I'm talking about the UK media

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Old Man wrote:So they would rather not support the only comp available than embrace what is?

You don't embrace something that is killing you.

Do you think there's more the Prem could be doing to attract the Welsh fans then? Obviously there are a growing number watching over their old teams for a number of reasons but should we be pushing it more to put the likes of Scarlets etc out of their misery? Better product, more visibility etc surely they should be trying all they can to get fans travelling to the likes of Bristol, Bath, Jersey etc?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Old Man wrote:So they would rather not support the only comp available than embrace what is?

You don't embrace something that is killing you.

Do you think there's more the Prem could be doing to attract the Welsh fans then? Obviously there are a growing number watching over their old teams for a number of reasons but should we be pushing it more to put the likes of Scarlets etc out of their misery? Better product, more visibility etc surely they should be trying all they can to get fans travelling to the likes of Bristol, Bath, Jersey etc?

It's not up to the English Premiership to look out for teams of other countries no.

If they want to expand the Championship however and eventually have two professional tiers and not one, then there is obviously a natural dialogue that would need to take place.

It needs backbone from the regional owners too though. If they can't see that the URC will always lead to mediocrity in Wales then there is no hope. Hopefully they are just paying lip service to the URC in public and privately they know what can lead them to thrive.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Old Man wrote:So they would rather not support the only comp available than embrace what is?

You don't embrace something that is killing you.

Do you think there's more the Prem could be doing to attract the Welsh fans then? Obviously there are a growing number watching over their old teams for a number of reasons but should we be pushing it more to put the likes of Scarlets etc out of their misery? Better product, more visibility etc surely they should be trying all they can to get fans travelling to the likes of Bristol, Bath, Jersey etc?

It's not up to the English Premiership to look out for teams of other countries no.

If they want to expand the Championship however and eventually have two professional tiers and not one, then there is obviously a natural dialogue that would need to take place.

It needs backbone from the regional owners too though. If they can't see that the URC will always lead to mediocrity in Wales then there is no hope. Hopefully they are just paying lip service to the URC in public and privately they know what can lead them to thrive.

It's an opportunity for more profit. A partially untapped market. I'm not in any way talking about the Prem looking out for teams, merely advertising even better to the Welsh fans who know their teams are done and dusted (or well on their way). Those teams are done as as you say the URC is their only option and it's failed. And so all those people who like rugby could be persuaded to follow the better teams in England. And hence my question around they could be doing to swing them to the prem earlier. What made you turn towards the better league?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

It's an opportunity for more profit. A partially untapped market. I'm not in any way talking about the Prem looking out for teams, merely advertising even better to the Welsh fans who know their teams are done and dusted (or well on their way). Those teams are done as as you say the URC is their only option and it's failed. And so all those people who like rugby could be persuaded to follow the better teams in England. And hence my question around they could be doing to swing them to the prem earlier. What made you turn towards the better league?

You mean fans actually turning their back on the teams they support and attending English club games?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

It's an opportunity for more profit. A partially untapped market. I'm not in any way talking about the Prem looking out for teams, merely advertising even better to the Welsh fans who know their teams are done and dusted (or well on their way). Those teams are done as as you say the URC is their only option and it's failed. And so all those people who like rugby could be persuaded to follow the better teams in England. And hence my question around they could be doing to swing them to the prem earlier. What made you turn towards the better league?

You mean fans actually turning their back on the teams they support and attending English club games?

Absolutely. It's a hodge podge of teams that few seem to have genuine attachment for. Even the ones who do have a team acknowledge they're fading away and are already more interested in the English league. Wat can the Prem do to accelerate that move to Welsh people to start going to the games in the prem. The teams are well set, you're apparently able to easily get to the games; and we see in sports like football the Welsh already attend the better teams in England.

Tell them to go for it.

SO what could they be doing RugbyFan? Seems like a decent option, what dragged you into the Prem over the URC? Advertising, TV deal something else?