England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Must be assuming Southee can't be as ineffective again.

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

VTR wrote:Genuine question, does Roy hold the record for number of ducks in ODIs? Seems to either make nothing or a hundred

I know what you mean!

Roy's up to ten ducks putting him in joint 5th in the all-time England ODI ducks list, Morgan is the leader with 15.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=ducks;qualmax1=100000;qualmin1=0;qualval1=ducks;team=1;template=results;type=batting

In terms of every country the all-time leader is Jayasuriya with an amazing 34 ducks. Though Roy's ratio of 'innings:ducks' is more duck-productive than Jayasuriya - Roy has 1 duck per every 9.7 innings, Jayasuriya has 1 duck per every 12.73 innings.

And if you add on T20 ducks?

Is it getting to the point where Roy's place in the team is under serious threat? He's always tended to a be a bit 'all or nothing', but recently it's been increasingly nothing.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/284058.html

He is 15th in the all-time T20i duck list. For now I'm still a backer of Roy at opener for both T20s and ODIs, though his T20 returns have been miserly this year.

Looks like he has 7 T20 ducks as well, so add the 2 short formats together and I'd assume that puts him further up (might still be below Morgan). Caveat some ODI players either didn't or played very few T20s.

Either way, agree we are tending to see more of thw nothing these days. He was dropped for Bairstow several years ago, then came back in for Hales fairly soon after to create the partnership that's now familiar. There are new players coming through and not sure of the Hales situation now so don't see him as untouchable

Good heavens what's been happening ?!

Tuned in late and it appears I might have missed most of the match

Six out for 50 ? Minefield ?

Looks like a few of the others have got Royitis today as well. Root and Stokes got absolute snorters, but some of the other wickets were more bad batting than good bowling. Be interesting to see how Buttler, Ali and the lower order deal with this and if they can get to some sort of target.
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Burmah's current figures - 5 overs, 2 maidens, 4 for 9

ANd just as I send, that, Moeen's gone.

Just seen the dismissals. Good bowling , eh ? But still ... Four ducks ? That is overdoing it.

Seven gone now and this might be one of the shortest ODIs on record. At least Buttler managed to get a few runs today. But this is pretty horrendous and the new white ball coach is having a rather awkward start to his tenure...

It's one of those shockers England throw in every now and again. Seem to remember a game vs South Africa a few years ago when they were 20-6 or thereabouts. Imagine having paid to watch this, ODIs such as this are beyond pointless

Yeah I remember that SA game. Guess every now and then they happen...does rather spoil the occasion , being no second innings to make amends.

Coming after a couple of dismal t20 games it does rather make it seem England have somehow swapped white ball skills for red ! Hopefully this one is an aberration.

Willey might just get them past that previous worst ever score of 86...in fact Carse does just that. Next target ... 100 ?

Topley has an amusing method of seeing out an over to stay in with Willey...launching Chahal for six

110 now...but that is their lot as Bumrah finishes with a ridiculous 6/19

Good toss to win , it seems. At least I will get a fairly early night.

Looking through those wickets again : the only one you would call out as a daft shot was Livingstone (don't know what he thought he was doing in the position they were in !). The rest were got out by very good bowling. OK , Root didn't have to play at his , but the bounce surprised him ; can't blame Buttler for taking on the pull...and the rabbits had no hope.

I don't think this means England have to revise their attacking intent in the format. Not going to have so many of their top bats fail on the same day too often. But I confess to being a bit concerned about Roy because he seems to be in the horrors at present : even that twenty odd the other day was pretty chancy. And Livingstone does need to show he can make runs when he isn't just piling on to an already battered opponent.

Ball should swing for England now but they don't have a Bumrah. And India aren't going to be under too much scoreboard pressure so I suspect this will be a bit of a stroll for them...not much fun for the spectators...

India falling behind the RRR early on, could be a close one!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sure, England are 26-5 and everyone is making a duck - but Rehan Ahmed has 3-for against the Saffers for the Lions, and that my friends is the real quiz

Smeed and Banton currently have the Lions 113-0 off 14 vs SA. The future is now.

The poor spectators today will get no refund as there's been over 30 overs of play. Imagine paying full price to see about a third of the alloted overs and zero actual excitement

I am.surprised to see the amount of seam movement and bounce on offer in the limited over leg of this series

Rohit's brought calm, poise and control to the onfield handling
Unlike the panic snd desperation we saw in the last few overseas tests

BUTLER is still to find his feet as full time.limited over captain . I think he is the right guy and needs time to settle...
Maybe he can give up gloves to one of so many batsman WK that Eng has.

As I write , it's nice to see Rohit finding his touch with the bat also .
Good.for India but like the first two T20s....a damp squib for a contest this one

VTR wrote:The poor spectators today will get no refund as there's been over 30 overs of play. Imagine paying full price to see about a third of the alloted overs and zero actual excitement

Yeah they've been short changed this time I'm afraid...unless you count some quite exciting Indian bowling as being partially worth the money.

Not even a bit of misleading faux tension from a couple of early wickets in this chase. Rohit and Dhawan don't even have to do anything too strenuous to get this done - though they've dined out on some of the short stuff.

56/0 after 11. Won't be long...

Glad to see Carse is at least getting a chance to bowl ! Not really much chance to prove anything unfortunately in this situation : he is one who might be handy in these middle overs so hopefully he will have a better opportunity to demonstrate his skills in the later games.

Hardly worth Stokes bowling though , is it ? Might as well just let the white ball specialists go through the motions rather than risk Ben doing himself any mischief. He is such a combative fellow he is not going to just take it easy...I wouldn't be messing about with him at all.

Ten wicket win for India in less than twenty overs...comprehensive , is the word

They'd probably rather have won the Test ; but they are getting a bit of revenge on the white ball stage...

England back to the drawing board .

Just India getting Root and Bairstow out a little late for the Test match. OK, Bumrah was lethal, but 110 all out in a 50 over match is an abberation. Hopefully we'll be able to put up some decent scores elsewhere.

VTR wrote:The poor spectators today will get no refund as there's been over 30 overs of play. Imagine paying full price to see about a third of the alloted overs and zero actual excitement

For sure. Glad I gave this one a miss.

In better news the England lions chased 318 down in 37.1 overs against South Africa

Will Smeed 90 (56) and Ben Duckett 85 (67) the top scorers

Think I’ve said before, I always felt Duckett was a little harshly cast aside by England after that Bangladesh/India winter (2016?). Appreciate he had some off field stuff as well, and he’s hardly torn up trees since mind - another white ball era in particular he’d have been a regular though

Been amusing myself flipping through all the kneejerk nonsense predictably appearing on BBC HYS - and idly wondering what % of those commenting actually have any real interest in cricket

Certainly was a day to forget - for England fans , anyway ! Indian supporters might be quietly satisfied...

But : harking back to that 2017 SA game VTR referenced above. Yes it was indeed 20/6 - (and Roy Buttler Root Morgan were 4 of the six) - YJB and Willey got them to 153 but still a 28 over seven wicket defeat... BUT it was one of three ODIs ; and in the other two the same crew made over 330 each time and won the series 2-1...

Not about to panic just yet.

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:The poor spectators today will get no refund as there's been over 30 overs of play. Imagine paying full price to see about a third of the alloted overs and zero actual excitement

For sure. Glad I gave this one a miss.

Two mates who were at the Oval yesterday described themselves this morning as being £95 down. I've obviously got some sympathy but, as tbf they both accepted, there's always a risk in any ODI that one side will cave and you'll end up with a much shortened game. It does though highlight the exorbitant cost of attending international cricket and why at Test matches (where ticket prices are even higher) much more should be done by all involved to ensure the minimum number of overs are bowled each day.

Heavy going for the England bats again today...at least not 26/5 this time !

But after twelve overs they've managed just 52 for the loss of the out of sorts Roy. Mainly singles since I've been watching ; and batting has looked quite challenging against some very good Indian seam bowling.

Spin now from Chahal...

And Chahal makes the break as YJB gets a bit over excited and misses a big hit...pity ; he'd just gone into top gear with several boundaries but gone now for 38. 72/2 after 15. Could do with a score from Stokes today...

Wonder what sort of a score would be needed here ?

Having made the break , Chahal comes off now and the excellent Shami back to have a go at Stokes.

Root goes to Chahal too...similar error , though lbw instead of bowled , misjudging the length . Wasted a review too which is not really like Joe.

Chahal bowling canny stuff here

Trouble for England with 84/3 . Buttler in now. 18 overs gone.

Oh dear...India on fire and England in heaps of trouble as Shami goes straight through Buttler and removes his pegs...

87/4 and I really hope Livingstone is going to play a bit more sensibly than the other day.

Shami greets him with a lifter which clangs him full on the visor ! Certainly a bit there for the bowlers again today . Shami has been excellent.

Whoever prepared these wickets needs the sack. Should be a flat pitch, people don't go to ODIs to see it seaming around and teams collapsing. You'd think in the hottest summer for years that sort of pitch would be possible

Doesn't get any better for the home team...Stokes , having hit a couple of reverse sweep fours off Chahal , becomes the third player to be undone by the spinner's wiles...clear lbw for 21 and wasted the review as well.

102/5 and hard to see them posting anything decent from here.

Update : Livingstone on to 17 , one nice six down the ground off Chahal. 126/5 after 26.

Which is , I suppose , a hundred better than they were early on a couple of days ago

Was about to comment on Livingstone playing much more smart cricket today...but after smashing Pandya for 15 off an over he went for one too many off the short ball and just found the deep fielder...

A useful 33 : but not the innings they needed. 150/6 now after 30 overs. Only Moeen and the pace men left to try and get this up to something semi-respectable.

Both Moeen and Willey landing balls in the crowd to take England to 184/6 after 37. Willey profiting from the chance he was given from his first attempt at a big hook...

At least it seems they are going to set India something north of 200 this time : once upon a time that might have been thought a defendable target !

Even if they can rattle up a lot more in the final ten it's hard to see them reaching anything that will test India - not with the bowling attack at Buttler's disposal today. Would hope they make them work a bit more than game one : but not holding my breath. Hope Rashid comes back nicely refreshed after his pilgrimage as he is badly missed in this outfit...

Good knock by Moeen for 47 , but he's picked out Jadeja in the deep to give Chahal his 4th wicket. 210/7. Eight overs left.

Will they bat them out ? Time for Craig Overton to show his batting credentials...Willey might add a few yet if he can get some support.

Has been a fine bowling display from India again. England will probably say they intend to keep playing aggressively anyway but you'd have to say their approach has been found out today. Certainly more in this pitch for the pace men than perhaps the usual ODI ; but the spinner has taken four of the wickets...

Down to the last four overs now. Willey and Overton battling away - mainly just collecting singles - has taken them to 227/7.

Would like a whirlwind finish now to get it up to 260 but that seems a big ask...Bumrah not easy to hit.

Though as I type Willey pulls his first ball into the crowd at square leg !

237/8 as Willey finds long on... Valuable runs (41) but I'd hoped he would stay to the end as I can't see the other bowlers making much hay in the last three overs.

Might get 250 , tops. Won't be enough.

All out 246 with one over unused. Bumrah too good for the tail.

Can't see this lot defending that : might have been interesting if it were Wood Woakes Archer and Rashid...but alas...

Looks at least a hundred short that. The kind of score Cook, Bell and Trott would have blazed to batting first!

Hmm. Two maidens to start , Rohit pinned lbw now by Topley...4/1 in the third...

Might stay up and watch for a bit.

Unusually cautious start to this run chase...4 maidens in the first six. Few leg byes though so 12 runs.

Plenty of time anyway . And now Kohli goes bang bang two boundaries...that'll get it ticking... 20/1 off seven.

Yeah 246 ain't going to be enough...but at least the crowd should see a fairly full day for their money .

Take it all back, England are probably favourites now. India not out of it though with some pretty average looking bowling options

England making Shami look like Bradman again

Topley got him out with a terrible ball on the way to a very creditable 6-for. Good win for England from the position they were in, but another extremely poor limited overs game

Edit: actually the best ever ODI bowling figures for England, surprised by that, so well done to Topley

Once again Ind found assistance in the pitch
Had Eng down....then took it easy with the ball.... dropped catches and let them resurrect to what turned out to be too many
210 is what Ind should restricted Eng to and would have most likely still lost.

With the bat, Ind took it just too easy....thought it will be a walk in the park...didn't look like having arrived...and before you know the game was gone.
Kohli ain't gonna score EVER....and with a 4 man tail.....resurrection wasn't a possibility

Last game...India can win ONLY if they bat first...their bowling is with quite some bite......BUT batting iwill continue to be lean on top for they ain't gonna drop Kohli
and tail too long.....
unless Kohli gets an injury of convenience and they play Thakur for Prasiddh...is when they can look to chase.

Well WTF do I know ? Gave in to need for sleep with India just one down albeit not exactly motoring : somewhat shocked to see the scores this morning ! Did think Willey and Topley were bowling well but expected the backup bowlers to let them down...this replay should be interesting...

Do agree with KP_fan that India rather let England off the hook with dropped chances and some ill-judged short stuff . 246 was rather more than they should have made - though a very smart innings from Moeen and a typically whole hearted effort from Willey deserve praise.

And viewing these highlights I suspect a few of the Indian bats are not going to want to watch back their dismissals : seems the old full toss can be a bit of a weapon

Topley will be happy with his day's work ! Think he has bowled pretty well in all these games and today he had a bit more luck go his way...reckon he earned it. A nod to Willey , too : he probably never gets in the full strength England ODI team ; but when he plays he rarely lets anyone down. His runs - and new ball bowling - were vital to this match.

One all and this win will be a relief to Jos after a rocky start to his regular captaincy. Hopefully it will also serve to help him recover the batting form that he seems to have left behind at the IPL. Have to think he is due for a score in game three.

England probably need to seriously consider Salt for Roy , surely ?

I agree with KP Fan that Kohli should be dropped, but don't quite get the line they can only win if batting first, is that a typo? As they just won by 10 wickets bowling first and had chances in the last game

From an England perspective its 1-1 without any of the top 6 actually doing anything so far. That might worry India, but could also suggest they are out of form and could fail again

VTR wrote:I agree with KP Fan that Kohli should be dropped, but don't quite get the line they can only win if batting first, is that a typo? As they just won by 10 wickets bowling first and had chances in the last game

From an England perspective its 1-1 without any of the top 6 actually doing anything so far. That might worry India, but could also suggest they are out of form and could fail again

Kohli should be dropped...but won't be...that puts Ind one batsman short
add to that 4 bowlers who cannot bat for their lives to score 15 runs apiece
100 odd they did in first game is not a chase...as it was pressureless
But even a middish total of 270 ain't possible under the pressures of a chase with only 6 batters + 5 liabilities

Setting a total is relatively easier...as its devoid of the pressure that chase brings

OK, got it. We'll that could work out I suppose, the key either way they go is early wickets. Roy is a bit like Kohli at the moment, a gift of a wicket for a nice start. India can definitely win this decider whether batting or bowling first, Bumrah in particular has been outstanding

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/icc-ftp-2023-27-india-and-australia-to-battle-for-border-gavaskar-trophy-over-five-tests-in-next-ftp-cycle-1325060

The prospective fixtures for the next two World Test Championships have been released.

In 2023/2024, England will be home to Australlia, West Indies and Sri Lanka, and away to New Zealand, India and Pakistan. In 2025/2026, England will be home to New Zealand, India and Pakistan, and away to Australia, South Africa and Bangladesh. Presumably some extra, non WTC, test series will be put into the home summers on those years.

Interestingly, Bangladesh are set to play more tests than any other nation outside the big three over these two cycles.

The ODI Super League will be over after its current, and only, iteration, but ODI tri-series will return, as will the Champions Trophy in 2025 (yay).

Haven't seen a lot of this series, England batting first again, surely they'll make a score this time?

12/2. Ball doing lots. Er...maybe not!

England seem to think this is a t20. Good to see Roy hitting balls where he intends today anyway...

Have to get rid of those Test players though

Roy couldn't keep going though...England in a spot of trouble at 67/3 off 11.

Would be a very good time for Jos to get back into some form...