Scotland Summer tests against Argentina

First topic message reminder :

So two more matches left on the summer tour for Scotland and we need to see a big improvement to take the series into a deciding leg, next weekend.

We will need to see a big improvement to achieve that and it will involve a working game plan from Toonie and buy in from the players and the skill and patience on their part to make it work.


There is an undeniable feel that Scotland are a team on the slide at the moment and nothing we have seen in the last few games has given us any signs that is not the case. This makes this match on saturday very important. Losing it and in particular losing it with a poor performance is really going to ask more questions about Toonie's future and where this group of players are heading.

I got my A in English at GCSE, my English is supperb. Their is nothing wrong, I don't know what your talking about; Jimbo.

NeilyBroon wrote:I got my A in English at GCSE, my English is supperb. Their is nothing wrong, I don't know what your talking about; Jimbo.

Jimbo goes on about this alot but I don't see what the issue is; I speak like this aswell: theirs no reason he should complain so much

(That was actually painful to write)

Thanks gentlemen you made mrspip smile; something I haven't managed since the deckchair incident in Blackpool in 1985.

Finally, I get a chance to quote Churchill:
"This is pedantry, up with which I will not put".

George Carlin wrote:Finally, I get a chance to quote Churchill:
"This is pedantry, up with which I will not put".

You forgot:
"Ohhhh yes!"

That Neily, he's a dog...but they love him. Breaks a new heart every day.

Jesus jimbo. How long have you been married?

This isn’t a joke about your advancing years, it’s more of a reference to when did mrs pip get her long service medal for care in the community.

Kyle Rowe out of Autumn tests so a chance for another winger perhaps.

Anyway, where are we in terms of world cup prep because I'd say either not far off or miles off, I can't decide lol , the first test I would have said miles and miles off but the last 2 tests I'm more confident we're on the right track . All we need to do is brush up our discipline (we've said that for ages ao it's bloody infuriating ) and defence and we could ne OK.

I always make my feelings on the gaffer known so won't say much other than, he's going nowhere which I'm happy with.

On to the autumn, I would like to see Jack Dempsey and Fin Smith get capped, I was also going to sat Charlie Chapman but tbh we're fine with Price, White and Horne I'd say.

Feel free to add to this with your thoughts and go easy on the criticism haha.

Highland
I love your optimism. Sadly I don't share it. Too many should have won/ could have won games to be able to build confidence going into a WC.
Constant, and almost random, team changes hamper our progress and an inability to handle restarts and a constantly malfunctioning lineout add to the sense that this coaching group and set of players, collectively, aren't up to the job of winning big games when it counts.

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2022/07/do-we-ever-learn-anything/

Here is a good article on our poor summer tour series v Argentina, by the lads at the Scottish Rugby blog .

Highland Shaun this week wrote:

I always make my feelings on the gaffer known so won't say much other than, he's going nowhere which I'm happy with.

Highland Shaun 3 weeks ago wrote:How long until we start questioning if the clown in the dugout is the right man to lead us because these Poopie performances are becoming unacceptable as is his pathetic team line ups!?

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but now I'm beginning to lose patience ffs !  

That’s quite the turnaround Shaun!

Your misunderstanding that post lol, in no way did I say I was wanting him sacked, all I was asking was the question that most wanted answered and that was: how long until we start questioning his position because until now (see Mark Palmer article in The Times) he was getting an easy ride from media etc despite indifferent performances/results and it is still true that my patience is running low as its so infuriating how inconsistent we are.

Well Ali Price is on holiday with Finn just now so there definitely wasn't anything serious in their twitter exchange last week!

That is the most outrageously stalkers post we've had on here in a long time.

Highland Shaun wrote:Your misunderstanding that post lol, in no way did I say I was wanting him sacked, all I was asking was the question that most wanted answered and that was: how long until we start questioning his position because until now (see Mark Palmer article in The Times) he was getting an easy ride from media etc despite indifferent performances/results and it is still true that my patience is running low as its so infuriating how inconsistent we are.

I think we've all been extensively questioning his position for the last two years!

He's like a poor man's Clive Woodward, a people manager who depends on those around him to make him look better.

I am, however, resigned to the fact he's here until 2023.

jimbopip wrote:That is the most outrageously stalkers post we've had on here in a long time.

Ask your kids to explain Instagram to you Jimbo

Imagine Scotland get out of their RWC group and win their QF going out in the semi finals. The SRU then extend Townsends contract a further two years. How would many feel about that on here?

Personally I think it’s not just the RWC results that matter and we need to see the team progress over this coming season. A strong autumn, a good six nations and a better than expected RWC.

bsando wrote:Imagine Scotland get out of their RWC group and win their QF going out in the semi finals. The SRU then extend Townsends contract a further two years. How would many feel about that on here?

Personally I think it’s not just the RWC results that matter and we need to see the team progress over this coming season. A strong autumn, a good six nations and a better than expected RWC.

All very hypothetical (as well as unlikely)

However if we acheived that, you would say he deserved it.

To be honest though, i don't see one scenario without the other. If we do start playing better this autumn and in the 6N then who knows how the WC will go but we will see the signs of that before it happens.

We are not really seeing those signs atm and am not very confident that we will.

RDW wrote:Well Ali Price is on holiday with Finn just now so there definitely wasn't anything serious in their twitter exchange last week!

That telescope you got for Christmas is really coming into its own.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:Well Ali Price is on holiday with Finn just now so there definitely wasn't anything serious in their twitter exchange last week!

That telescope you got for Christmas is really coming into its own.

I suspect it's already been upgraded to an infra-red see through walls model.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/all-blacks-rugby-crusaders-coach-scott-robertson-says-hes-open-to-offers-from-rival-nations-after-all-blacks-coaching-snub/5CZY2KQZH4QQ67I4TVNG77II7Y/?fbclid=IwAR3HzgX85HgxP7Z0WCLIUe8B1RT7hX-kl-boWC2Z6oc8mHnRfcfyUIwlreM

Come on over Scotty boy. All the square slice and Irn Bru you want.

George Carlin wrote:https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/all-blacks-rugby-crusaders-coach-scott-robertson-says-hes-open-to-offers-from-rival-nations-after-all-blacks-coaching-snub/5CZY2KQZH4QQ67I4TVNG77II7Y/?fbclid=IwAR3HzgX85HgxP7Z0WCLIUe8B1RT7hX-kl-boWC2Z6oc8mHnRfcfyUIwlreM

Come on over Scotty boy. All the square slice and Irn Bru you want.

I suspect that interview was more aimed at the NZ Rugby Board than anyone else!

He did say he wants to win a WC with both NZ and another team - Scotland is the obvious choice!

He is good friends with Eddie Jones though and it's entirely feasible that England will want him signed up to take over once the RWC ends. Jones has already said he's not staying.

Question is whether intense pressure at home will be enough for NZ rugby to boot their current coach now.

Can someone remind me what Joe Schmidt is doing? He's involved in the All Black's preparation somehow, isn't he?

Schmidt is officially a selector for the ABs. In the modern professional game, I have no clue what that would actually involve.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/jamie-ritchie-scotland-captaincy/

Interesting thoughts. Obviously in discussion!

NeilyBroon wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/jamie-ritchie-scotland-captaincy/

Interesting thoughts. Obviously in discussion!

Well he probably is the outstanding candidate for the role.

Pretty much guaranteed his place in the team, seems a born leader who can drive the team on. He was the one player we really missed in this 6N just gone and really might have made the difference.


Slightly odd though, as you suggest to be openly speculating on it at this stage and hard to see Hoggy being pleased about that, but until it is officially announced, I guess there will be these discussions.

BigGee wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/jamie-ritchie-scotland-captaincy/

Interesting thoughts. Obviously in discussion!

Well he probably is the outstanding candidate for the role.

Pretty much guaranteed his place in the team, seems a born leader who can drive the team on. He was the one player we really missed in this 6N just gone and really might have made the difference.


Slightly odd though, as you suggest to be openly speculating on it at this stage and hard to see Hoggy being pleased about that, but until it is officially announced, I guess there will be these discussions.

Its a coup! A glorious uprising of the working mans forward! Hoggy first, then Townsend followed swiftly by Dodson, the dawn of a new glorious Scottish rugby era where we win more than 3 tests a year and figure out how to beat wales every other year!

BigGee wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/jamie-ritchie-scotland-captaincy/

Interesting thoughts. Obviously in discussion!

Well he probably is the outstanding candidate for the role.

Pretty much guaranteed his place in the team, seems a born leader who can drive the team on. He was the one player we really missed in this 6N just gone and really might have made the difference.


Slightly odd though, as you suggest to be openly speculating on it at this stage and hard to see Hoggy being pleased about that, but until it is officially announced, I guess there will be these discussions.

Wasn't Hogg supposedly overheard saying something along the lines of 'Ill be happy when I don't have to do this anymore' before being interviewed after the last 6N match. I recall it was thought that it was because he knew he wouldn't be going on the summer tour, but perhaps he had already discussed standing down as Captain?

Or am I completely mistaken?

He was definitely disgruntled at the end of the 6N but that may have been understandable given the circumstances.

He certainly sounded chipper about keeping the csptsincy when he was getting joshed when he was the pundit on the sofa watching the Argentina tests.

My own feeling is that both parties need a change. Let Hoggy concentrate on his game and let the team move on.

Ritchie does seem to be the outstanding candidate for the role.

Tell ya what. We’re Sh!te at ladies 7s

Good to see JJ not trying to sugarcoat the results of the professional and age grace teams across the board at his chairman's address at the recent AGM. Article by Mark Palmer in the Sunday Times.





John Jeffrey used the Scottish Rugby Union annual meeting to deliver a withering assessment of the results of the union’s high-performance teams over the past year, his words landing with the force of one of the tackles the 1990 grand slam-winning hero used to make so often.

The 63-year-old former flanker, now the SRU’s chairman, used his top-table address to tell delegates that “for the most part our high-performance teams have flattered to deceive. We had some fantastic individual results, but a lack of consistency is frustrating for all our supporters. We need to develop a ruthless streak that is evident in all successful sporting environments.

“After continual years of investment into our high-performance structures we now expect to see better and more consistent outcomes. There has to be a rise in our ambition and associated standards of delivery. This is true across the board. In age grade, pro teams, and the men’s and women’s national teams.”


Jeffrey then went into greater depth on each side in turn, starting with the Scotland men’s team, who were largely underwhelming in the Autumn Nations Series before they struggled to kick on having beaten England in their Six Nations opener. Gregor Townsend’s team then contrived to lose the summer series 2-1 to Argentina despite a dominant win in the second Test.

“Our men’s national team again had some wonderful moments but failed to find the consistency needed if we are to challenge for the top prizes, be it Six Nations or World Cups,” Jeffrey said.



“The days of isolated victories against top teams have gone. As we enter the build up to the World Cup in France next year, we need to be producing more consistent results.

“In Rugby World Cup 2023, we have the ultimate challenge. We have the two highest ranked teams in the world in our group — South Africa and Ireland — and if we progress to the quarter-finals, we will likely meet one of the third or fifth ranked teams – France or New Zealand. So, the task is already formidable.

“The build up to France begins now and our next two tournaments in November and February must see our team develop a winning habit that sees experimentation come to a close, ushering in an era of hard-edged attractive rugby. In line with this greater intensity of approach, our players also have a role to play on and off the pitch to ensure the right standards are delivered to achieve this outcome. All of this has to be non-negotiable.”

Turning his attention to the women’s team, Jeffrey emphasised that their overriding goal — World Cup qualification — had been achieved, but did not seek to sugarcoat the whitewash suffered by Bryan Easson’s side in the Six Nations.




“I acknowledge that their season was designed to peak at the Rugby World Cup qualification phase and that it was very challenging for our women’s players to peak again so soon for the Six Nations tournament.

“Our preparations are now well under way ahead of the World Cup in New Zealand in October this year. We are incredibly proud of what they have achieved already, and we offer Bryan, his management team and all the players our strongest support as they head out to fly the flag down under.”

Next in Jeffrey’s sights were Edinburgh and Glasgow. While he praised the style of rugby fostered by Mike Blair at the DAM Health Stadium, Jeffrey underlined that the side “ultimately fell short at the play-off stages of both URC and European Challenge Cup. This hopefully will be a valuable learning experience.”

Glasgow, meanwhile, “have endured a frustrating couple of seasons and in recent years have not built on their league winning benchmark in 2015. The introduction of Franco Smith as head coach should lead to a renewed dynamism and edge to their performances”.



Jeffrey then acknowledged the SRU failings which he believes have contributed to the well-documented struggles of the men’s under-20 team, who were again whitewashed in the Six Nations then lost all of their matches in the Summer Series.

“We acknowledge that our results in this area have been unacceptable. We knew that changes had to be made some time ago and we created a new management structure for our age-grade programmes which is only just bedding in.

“We suspected that things would get worse before they got better yet the performances in Italy fell well short of what was expected of any Scotland team. This is absolutely not the fault of the young men in the squad nor Kenny Murray who came into the role just weeks before the start of the Six Nations.

“Our performances at this level have always been inconsistent but Covid restrictions have also played their part. The suspension of the U17 and U19 programmes during that period in retrospect denied our upcoming players the opportunity to have meaningful matches and sufficient time together, for which we take responsibility.

“We got a lot of things right during Covid, but we could have definitely done better in this area.

“Through the addition of John Fletcher as head of pathways and elite coach development and the impending appointment of the head of our SQ [Scottish Qualified] programme, we are addressing these issues. These two individuals along with Kenny Murray, Stevie Gemmell and Jim Mallinder are tasked with the rebuilding of our age grade framework.”

Part of the union’s intended solution is a “young player development agreement” with the Italian federation which will bring more under-18, under-19 and under-20 men’s and women’s fixtures, with potential opportunities for pro team and Super6 players as well.

Fair enough JJ my old sausage, but to achieve to consistent results you need things like, well, you know, consistency in team selection? Maybe sent a text to young Townsend reminding him of this.

https://twitter.com/andthefoxsays/status/1562084942812778498?t=GoamwUSmBNXPzBSFC0tmRA&s=19

I saw this tweet last week and asked who the 2 SQ players were so I'm asking here too lol, is it Grant Stewart and Sean Masterton?

Regarding the article above, yes it is good to see that the SRU guys realise that performances and results need to improve especially if we are to have any chance in the world cup.

Stewart was let go by Glasgow at the end of last season having slipped down the hooking pecking order over the past few seasons.

Masterson played Scotland U20s but is pretty Iridh and has spent his whole career with Connacht as far as i am aware.

Both good club players, but unlikely to be troubling the national selectors.

How long before the Pumas overtake us on the world rankings? They just beat the Blackness in NZ.

Perhaps the Arg tour wasn’t such a bad showing after all. What a game from Boffelli