England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

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Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.  

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development

A test hat-trick about the only thing missing from Anderson's C.V.! He's already got an ODI one.

Uh-oh. Rabada comes to the crease and Robinson immediately sends the short stuff his way.

How has Robinson not got a wicket here today - talk about your luck being out!

Bit better for batting now...Rabada doing a good job in support of Verreynne , playing sensibly. Less slips around now as England looking to be a bit more patient today. Still need to nip these last three out...

Tell you what - looking at the lack of carry, if the tail can put together something resembling a respectable total... might be a tough old fourth innings chase on this deck.

Still should have bowled though

Three for Broad...end of a handy knock from Verreynne . Good to see England seem to have learned at last to bowl normally even after six wickets are down...

That was pretty poor from Verreynne. He should have played a few shots with only the tail left, rather than scratch around for very little.

Wicket falls as I type that. Helluva ball by Broad, but Verreynne's inability to come forward is going to make international red ball cricket a tough old slog for him

Duty281 wrote:That was pretty poor from Verreynne. He should have played a few shots with only the tail left, rather than scratch around for very little.

Guess he trusts Rabada. Plus he was waiting for the short stuff

Spoke too soon...

Field spread , short ball attack to Rabada. WTF ???

Just hope they're going to mix it up a bit because if they give away a quick forty I'm going to explode.

So it's going to be short to Rabada , pitch up to Nortje. Not selling this to me , I'm afraid. The sight of no slips with a side 120/8 just appals me . Might work in the end ; but I'm not convinced it is better than a "normal" approach.

Hasn't seemed to bother Rabada yet.

I do get that the ball has gone soft. But can't help thinking that if they'd kept bowling in a conventional manner - with a mix of catchers and a few defensive fielders - Rabada , left with just the tail , would have got himself out by now. As it is they've added 29 already , no risk.

Leach now , which makes a bit of sense I think. I'd have done it earlier if they think the pace attack has had its teeth drawn.

This has been a complete load of old toss to Rabada. This Rabada fellow has never made a 50 in any format of professional cricket (highest FC score is 48 in 101 innings), his FC average is 12, and England are scared to attack the stumps!

Cricviz with some salient stats:

Spoiler:

Yeah, the usual garbage has come out eventually. Might not be that costly in the end, we will see, but there is no way in the world this is better than line and length that the top order couldn't handle

It's not just England though. Problem with Rabada is he quite clearly has the talent to bat, and probably bat well. So on days when he gets in things look like they are clicking, he often gets treated like he's a handy #7, instead of a genuine number nine. IF England asked him to drive into the open covers with three slips and a gully, they'd likely be batting by now.

Really thought today they were going to see reason. But no : didn't even persevere with line and length for a few overs after Verreynne got out. To be clear : I am fine with giving the tail some short stuff - but not so telegraphed , with the field scattered to the boundaries for heaven's sake ! It just signals to the batsmen : "we are conceding the initiative to you."

And it costs England - again and again. Sad, when they are getting so much right.

kingraf wrote:It's not just England though. Problem with Rabada is he quite clearly has the talent to bat, and probably bat well. So on days when he gets in things look like they are clicking, he often gets treated like he's a handy #7, instead of a genuine number nine. IF England asked him to drive into the open covers with three slips and a gully, they'd likely be batting by now.

We can all see that. Why the devil can't they ? Of course these two might have put on thirty odd anyway ; but why not try "normal" bowling tactics for once - just for a few overs at least ?

Do agree Radaba has played smart cricket - and Nortje has stood firm. Very handy runs for SA.

Robinson deserves that. Didn't overstep either!

Robinson and the tea break do the trick...

Pins Nortje : breaks the big partnership. I guess the analysts will say the short ball approach slowed the scoring before tea

Reward at last for Robinson !

That is Ngidi batting , right ? Shot of the day , that !

It's funny how as much as people talk about South Africa's long tail, it's probably dragged the ship to calmer waters more than the not particularly vaunted batting line-up

SA have done well to raise 150 after being 92/7. Any more from here is a bonus.

151ao. England lost a bit of momentum, but that's still a strong effort overall.

SA nowhere near out of it though. Going to be a very testing two hours for England v this new ball.

All done at 151. Glad they kept Leach on.

Maybe the fact that the last two wickets fell to conventional bowling might just register with the brains trust...

SA will not be happy with that score. If their fine pace attack can fight back they could still be in the game ...but you'd much rather be in the home dressing room right now. It looks as if batting conditions are a lot better this afternoon than the early session.

Some decent resistance from the SA lower order, but 151 all out just after tea when you've won the toss and batted is not good - a bit of assistance around sure, but not to that extent. Good work from the England seamers, glad Robinson got a much deserved wicket in the end!

Chance for England to really bat well and get ahead of the game here.

Big Headingley 2019 vibes of England having ideal bowling conditions on Day 1 and not taking advantage - even if they did roll SA for 151 (and Aus for 179). And England repeating history and being shot out for 60 odd is very possible…

It's still really tough out there v the new ball, not convinced the conditions are much better. I do think England will do well to get 200...and there goes Lees, having a poke.

Can we have Burns and Sibley back please, they at least occasionally made a significant score unlike these two.

Good ball or not, it's pretty clear that Alex Lees isn't good enough.

Duty281 wrote:It's still really tough out there v the new ball, not convinced the conditions are much better. I do think England will do well to get 200...and there goes Lees, having a poke.

He wasn't really having a poke at that. It was just about a perfect ball from that angle, on that length to a left hander.

Bowlers are allowed to bowl good balls. That would have got pretty much anyone out.

Nothing you can do there. That's a hell of a ball. In with the angle, away off the seam. You just have to hope you don't feather that, tbh

When you average sub 25 in 16 Tests, the chances of you getting that many unplayable balls would seem very, very slim.

For the record, I'm not advocating he stays in the team. Just an observation that there was absolutely nothing he could have done differently to that specific ball.

43/3, England in some difficulties again. Not been a good series for Root. Good decision to get Rabada back in.

Will Crawley carry his bat?

Good recovery from Bairstow and Crawley to take it to 111/3. Classic Bairstow with his counter-attacking strokes. 38* actually the highest score of the day! Crawley, odd innings, seemed to have put most of his shots away in an effort to survive. It worked, but is that what McCullum wants to see from him?

SA lost their way in the field towards the end, a number of basic errors. Saw some of the worst of Nortje today with his radar misfiring. They started with a bad call today, but SA are still in this and an inspired spell from one of the seamers tomorrow morning will put them right back in contention.

Bad players tends to make balls look better as a general rule I feel. Someone like a Cook or Elgar would find a way, more often that not, to leave that or get an ugly edge down to third.

Good effort from Bairstow and Crawley to get through to the close. Chance to really kick on against the softer ball tomorrow and put the game beyond reach. The ball was turning already for Harmer - SA will be kicking themselves.

Well that was proper Test Cricket ! Expected SA to pile on the pressure - and they obliged. Batting looked very difficult. Jonny and Zac did well to survive that and get to the close three down- but Rabada and Nortje will be back fresh in the morning ; this isn't going to be easy.

Incidentally : Crawley seems to be channelling Chris Tavare rather than playing in the cliche Bazball manner . Wonder if he will open out tomorrow ?

Anyway , fascinating stuff. Goodnight all...

Very good day for England in the end - especially having lost the toss.
Obviously not in total command, but have the opportunity tomorrow if one of these two can push on to get a sizeable lead.

Weird day for SA - thought they let england off the ropes a tad with the ball there. A ridiculous amount of extras really, and would’ve given Harmer more of a look personally - in his one over he did seem to get some turn, which is ominous for any potential 4th dig chase.

Obviously a huge day for Crawley tomorrow- but sneakily also Foakes too, England could really do with him making a contribution with the bat

JDizzle wrote:Bad players tends to make balls look better as a general rule I feel. Someone like a Cook or Elgar would find a way, more often that not, to leave that or get an ugly edge down to third.

Well putting aside your entirely subjective and un -quantifiable 'general' rule, we'll have to agree to disagree. I saw that as an absolutely brilliant ball which seems to be the consensus amongst the pundits as well. I don't see anything he could have done differently. I certainly can't stretch my mind enough to envisage Cook or Elgar leaving that or edging down to 3rd. May as well imagine Rory Burns slashing it over 2nd slip for 4. That is no more fanciful. They are better players, for sure, but that would have got them out as much as Lees.

But it matters little, he is back in the hutch and probably not long for this England team. But it is his ongoing struggles, not that ball that should define him.

Interesting day of test cricket, with England emerging ahead at the end of it. Couple of poor calls from Elgar and the SA management. Despite him getting a ball or 2 to turn in that first over, I would not have had Simon Harmer in for Marco Jansen. If SA are to play 2 spinners, either Ngidi or Nortje would have sat out for me. Think Jansen is building up to be their next best after KG. The more recent version of Ngidi has sacrificed just that little bit of pace for greater discipline and is a fine foil for Rabada upfront. Young Jansen has the potential to be one of the best test bowlers in the world and he can score a few runs too. Nortje can bowl a match-turning spell from nowhere. I'd play all 3 along side Rabada as much as possible, but on a spinning or flat track, would sit Ngidi out, on a solid seaming track that might turn big later on, would dispense with Nortje's express pace that can not only produce that run-through moments but plenty of run-away scoring opportunities too. OT hasn't been great for spinners of late, can't see why Elgar did what he did! And absolutely no idea why it has to be Jansen.

And why on earth did he bat on that track in those conditions knowing fully well that he doesn't have the likes of Jacques Kallis, Graeme Smith, Hashim Amla or AB de Villiers batting along with him? Its a new batting lineup finding its way, and they are without their current best batter in Temba Bavuma who's out injured. They haven't selected Ryan Rickleton who seem to be a better bat than Kyle Verreynne as the wicketkeeper. They have kept selecting Aiden Markram for past performances and limited overs performances. Ngidi and Nortje are more number 11s. KG is at best a 9, both Maharaj and Harmer are nothing more than 8. And Verreynne, despite that ton in New Zealand, just doesn't look to have a solid game for test cricket.

Also, South Africa got a quality seam bowling lineup even without Jansen, and this England batting lineup propped up by the world class Joe Root and possible support from Bairstow and Stokes only, Rabada and co would have been primed to do a fine job. So rather than playing to his strengths, Elgar ended up exposing his sides major weaknesses when he very well could have done otherwise.

Absolute boneheaded decision by SA to leave out Jansen and to bat first. Good to see other countries making crazy decisions other than England (no Broad and Anderson at Brisbane and neither taken to the West Indies).

Would be interesting to speculate on just how many England would have got if they had been inserted and they had had to face Jansen.

Chucking away a position of strength after going 1-0 up in the series was reminiscent of Ponting inserting England at Birmingham in 2005.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Bad players tends to make balls look better as a general rule I feel. Someone like a Cook or Elgar would find a way, more often that not, to leave that or get an ugly edge down to third.

Well putting aside your entirely subjective and un -quantifiable 'general' rule, we'll have to agree to disagree. I saw that as an absolutely brilliant ball which seems to be the consensus amongst the pundits as well. I don't see anything he could have done differently. I certainly can't stretch my mind enough to envisage Cook or Elgar leaving that or edging down to 3rd. May as well imagine Rory Burns slashing it over 2nd slip for 4. That is no more fanciful. They are better players, for sure, but that would have got them out as much as Lees.

But it matters little, he is back in the hutch and probably not long for this England team. But it is his ongoing struggles, not that ball that should define him.

Not sure it’s that unquantifiable. It’s fairly common sense I would have thought. Tailenders make a lot of balls look unplayable as they aren’t very good batters. It follows that not good batters will make more balls look better than good batters. It just won’t be as obvious as when seeing tail enders bat.

I do agree one ball shouldn’t define his career. But when he keeps making balls look hard to play that is a problem.

how has nick knight managed to get on the test comms gig? he's bloody awful

Charles Dagnall from The Hundred makes Nick Knight sound like Richie Benaud.

Nortje is bowling some spell this morning.

Bairstow's dismissal was disappointing, though Crawley got a pearler.

Narrow lead, if SA keep it below 50 they'll be delighted.

Duty281 wrote:Bairstow's dismissal was disappointing, though Crawley got a pearler.

Poor shot, yes, but partly down to the pressure Nortje was applying.

Not sure I need to book my train ticket for Sunday.

Nortje made that SA hour with the two wickets...reverse swing at his pace pretty tough to play !

On the other hand 62 runs came from 14 overs . Game still wide open.

Just watched the two dismissals. Bairstow probably should have been leaving that one as much on length as width, so a batting error. Crawley just got a very decent delivery and was unlucky enough to get an edge - Boycott's comment that the best thing you can to do with some deliveries is to play and miss comes to mind.

https://resources.ecb.co.uk/ecb/document/2022/08/25/5ed38d62-72c0-45d3-9514-aa3b310ca067/Men-s-High-Performance-Review-Consultation-Material-FCCs.pdf

ECB high-performance review has just been released. The fact they've released it during a test seems to indicate they want it to pass under the radar. Broadly speaking:

- Too much FC cricket is played. There needs to be less.
- The top division of the County Championship needs to be made smaller in terms of team numbers. Bonus points to incentivise better pitches.
- Spinners need to bowl more overs in red ball.
- Different balls could be used in the red ball competition.
- English players playing FC cricket overseas is a good thing and doesn't currently happen enough. Proposals to remedy this include a 'north v south' red-ball game in the UAE and an 'overseas club programme' for certain players. Like the second idea.
- The Lions need to play more cricket, like India A do, and the focus should be 80-20 in favour of red-ball cricket. Reinstate U17 international cricket.
- They like the Hundred. The T20 Blast should be optimised to maximise attendances.
- The 50-over comp should be played in April and should involve the 'strongest possible' teams. Yes.
- Counties who develop elite players should be compensated accordingly.
- The aim is to make England the world's best men's team in all formats in five years. Haha, these changes will take longer than that to yield results.

Overall, the review just seems to be 'let's copy what other countries and sports are doing', with nothing really innovative about it. Other countries have a smaller domestic FC competition than us? OK, let's make ours smaller. Spinners bowl more overs overseas than our spinners? Right, our spinners should bowl more overs then. The Championship in football promotes 13% of teams, while the second division of county cricket promotes 25%? Well let's make it smaller then. There's also a bizarre comparison to how the gap between Division One and Division Two isn't as big as the gap between the PL and the Championship in football.