England's Summer of Cricket 2022 as Joe Root Steps Down

by KP_fan Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:What do we think of the future of ODI cricket as a whole, because its demise is once again being discussed?

Wasim Akram thinks ODI cricket should be put out of its misery; Mark Ramprakash says that Stokes' ODI retirement could be the beginning of the end for ODI cricket; but Ravi Shastri says there should be fewer T20Is.

My view is that ODI cricket should stay, and it's T20i cricket that should be abolished. T20 should remain franchise/domestic only. No need for a T20 World Cup when the IPL and such exists. If T20i cricket does stay, I think there should be no three format players, only two formats maximum. I'd be very disappointed if 50-over cricket died on an international basis.

No format will die as long as they are generating revenues.
And much as I used to call them Meaningless-Masala-ODIs, these games as well as meaningless T20Is generate more revenue then tests.
Instead of 5 to 7 ODIs per series earlier...now limited over series comprise of 3+3.
Test Matches, "The Premium Form" of the game per purists ( including me) is still the commercially subsidized format of the game.
Now the defeats in ODIs/T20Is don't hurt as much, nor are wins remembered for long, only World Cups stay in memory.
But the international games generate high viewership rating & expensive advertisements (atleast on Indian TV)

As I wrote on the Ind-WI thread, the Indians have stopped complaining about too much cricket.
BCCI has found peace by putting out as many as 2 and a half to 3 squads now...call them Senior (or premium) and A and B squads for international games.
Ensuring prime stars get plenty of rest / rotation......and the pool of contracted players gets bigger and everyone gets full contracted fee, playing lesser games
Recently we have seen 2 Indian series running concurrently and twice VVSL has been India's national coach for a series when Dravid was with another Indian squad at the same time in another series.

If a marquee player Stokes was under BCCI management.....BCCI would have NEVER let him retire, would have done a sweet deal with him guaranteeing his workload across formats and asking him to appear for a very limited number of ODIs and T20Is and also letting him skip B grade test series.

No format will die since even these meaningless ODI&T20Is are indeed generating revenues, that are essential to subsidize tests and pump into FC, junior and women cricket development

by Soul Requiem Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:00 pm

Ten games a season is plenty, any more than that is just overkill as it is now, you can chuck on top of that a final between the top two played at Lords for instance so taking it to 11 games for two teams.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:09 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/08/31/jason-roy-dropped-england-tour-pakistan-t20-world-cup/

I don't have a subscription so I can't read the full article, but seems like Roy has been dropped from the T20 side to be announced at the end of the week. A huge shame he hasn't been able to recapture his form, and big boots to fill

by JDizzle Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:13 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/08/31/jason-roy-dropped-england-tour-pakistan-t20-world-cup/

I don't have a subscription so I can't read the full article, but seems like Roy has been dropped from the T20 side to be announced at the end of the week. A huge shame he hasn't been able to recapture his form, and big boots to fill

That sums it up. Does caveat it by saying if he plays anymore in the Hundred and scores runs it could save him, but he is an injury doubt. His last two innings where he has scored 20s but slowly are the bigger issue.

The suggested WT20 line up is Malan, Buttler, Stokes, YJB. With Salt and Jacks the next cabs off the rank, with Smeed and Hales bigger long shots.

by Duty281 Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:18 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/08/31/jason-roy-dropped-england-tour-pakistan-t20-world-cup/

I don't have a subscription so I can't read the full article, but seems like Roy has been dropped from the T20 side to be announced at the end of the week. A huge shame he hasn't been able to recapture his form, and big boots to fill

Well spotted. Here's the full article:

Spoiler:

Would be a sad end to Roy's career, he's another one like Morgan whose form has slowly ebbed away over the last few years.

Telegraph indicating that Buttler and Malan will open, Stokes and Bairstow at 3 and 4. Wouldn't be a fan of Malan as an opener, would rather take a punt on something exciting like Smeed or Jacks. Hales did something that is likely very, very bad, so he won't be coming back, even if the Telegraph reckons he is an 'outside bet'.

Incidentally, I wonder if Roy's slump in form and consequent to his being dropped is in any way related to his mysterious sanction, earlier this year, when he was handed a suspended two-game ban and fined for "conducting himself in a manner which may be prejudicial to the interests of cricket or which may bring the game into disrepute." The specific nature of the offence was never disclosed, and he took a short break from the game afterwards.

by VTR Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:56 pm

Hard to know what has happened to him. Maybe just one of those players who doesn't have a strong basic technique, so when the reflexes start to go even slightly it starts to unravel

by JDizzle Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:34 pm

Jason Roy did get a fine and a suspended two game ban from the ECB at the start of the summer and they never said why. Do wonder if something went on that has affected him! Guess we will never know now (until we get to read his book in 2025).

by guildfordbat Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:39 pm

JDizzle wrote:Jason Roy did get a fine and a suspended two game ban from the ECB at the start of the summer and they never said why. Do wonder if something went on that has affected him! Guess we will never know now (until we get to read his book in 2025).

I don't have any inside info but I do suspect that you - and Duty in his related post - are on the right track there about Roy. I am aware that some at the Oval whom I would expect to know what went on earlier (even if they wouldn't divulge it) don't know and that only increases my suspicion.

by alfie Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:41 am

Roy's recent form makes a decision to go without him not unreasonable. However this Pakistan warm up may struggle for players judging by the number of injury doubts I've seen mentioned !
Guess it would be a good opportunity to try the alternatives for opening , if Roy gone and Buttler on the injured list...

by Duty281 Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:37 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/aug/30/moeen-ali-to-lead-england-t20-side-during-first-visit-to-pakistan-for-17-years

Stokes and Bairstow likely to be rested for the seven-game tour to Pakistan. Wood and Woakes may make the squad as their respective recoveries from injury are described as 'encouraging'. Moeen will be skipper with Buttler still recovering from injury.

Forgot the tour was so close, actually. The first game of the 7 T20s is in just 19 days time and England's first game at the World Cup is just over a month and a half away. England stumbling into the tournament with lots of questions over the batting order and injuries to key players.

by alfie Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:11 pm

Pleased to see Wood and Woakes likely to be OK. Add Gleeson Topley and Curran and the pace bowling is sorted (Jordan still injured or have I imagined that ?) but not sure what the batting order is if Stokes and Bairstow are (very wisely !) rested ?

Salt Malan Jacks Brook Moeen Billings ?

And then of course mass changes for the Cup...which kind of negates this as a dress rehearsal but at least is a chance to try something different...

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:33 pm

Alfie I am afraid JDizzle is gonna have you before the jury for not including Smeed on that list

by king_carlos Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:46 am

I like Stokes coming up to 3 but I'm not a fan of Malan and Buttler as an opening partnership. Buttler is best when he doesn't have to go crazy in the PP but with Malan there may well feel obliged to do so.

On balance I'd prefer Salt opening with Buttler, Malan at 3 and Stokes at 5 as part of a flexible lower middle order with Livingstone and Moeen.

by alfie Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:05 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie I am afraid JDizzle is gonna have you before the jury for not including Smeed on that list

I'll put him in then ...move that Moeen chap down to seven...

TBH , I haven't a clue what the best t20 batting line-up is these days. And I am not sure England do either - or will after this Pakistan overkill seven games with a "B" team. The retirement of Morgan , Roy gone off the boil , Livingstone injured (will he even be right for the WC ?) - too many changes and no time to assess them properly.

As to opening in the WC I would be inclined (now) to pair Buttler with Bairstow as they are the two most experienced at opening in white ball games- and I am not convinced Jonny is really suited to coming in later in the innings in t20. Leave Malan at three ; and then sort out a middle order around Stokes , Moeen and whoever. If one of the fringe players makes a good case for himself in Pakistan , OK , reconsider.

Unless they get the bowling right they are in trouble anyway.

by JDizzle Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:47 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie I am afraid JDizzle is gonna have you before the jury for not including Smeed on that list

I did see Jordan Cox’s name mooted as one who might be in the squad, that really would be a shock to myself and the rest of the Smeed fan club. Nothing against Cox who is a talented young player and he’s had a decent Hundred - but only has a career SR of 134. Whereas Smeed is clear of 146.

Smeed has a clear weakness vs high pace/bounce, but also has a hugely high ceiling. And when England’s bowling is as it is, and they are likely to be chasing big scores/not being able to defend anything low, I think they’d be better off swinging for the fences with their batting. No point having a couple of anchors in there if you are going to be chasing 200+ regularly.

by James100 Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:57 am

A full strength top six still looks pretty strong

Buttler
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Livingstone

but three holes to fill for the Pakistan series - I'd expect Salt replacing Buttler at the top, and maybe Brooks and Jacks in for Stokes and Bairstow. Or they go for 7 batters and there's room for Smeed/Cox.

Billings seems to have dropped off the radar for T20Is, will be interesting to see if he gets a place in the squad.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:15 am

JDizzle wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Alfie I am afraid JDizzle is gonna have you before the jury for not including Smeed on that list

I did see Jordan Cox’s name mooted as one who might be in the squad, that really would be a shock to myself and the rest of the Smeed fan club. Nothing against Cox who is a talented young player and he’s had a decent Hundred - but only has a career SR of 134. Whereas Smeed is clear of 146.

Smeed has a clear weakness vs high pace/bounce, but also has a hugely high ceiling. And when England’s bowling is as it is, and they are likely to be chasing big scores/not being able to defend anything low, I think they’d be better off swinging for the fences with their batting. No point having a couple of anchors in there if you are going to be chasing 200+ regularly.

Totally agree re: your point about side balance JDizzle - no point stacking it with an extra bowler, simply not good enough options, have to go with the batting heavy approach and look to just outscore the opposition teams with our firepower. Should be easier in Australia than in UAE, where in theory the outcome of the game will be less toss dependant and pitches will suit our batting XIs strengths a bit more

by Soul Requiem Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:26 am

James100 wrote:A full strength top six still looks pretty strong

Buttler
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Livingstone

but three holes to fill for the Pakistan series - I'd expect Salt replacing Buttler at the top, and maybe Brooks and Jacks in for Stokes and Bairstow. Or they go for 7 batters and there's room for Smeed/Cox.

Billings seems to have dropped off the radar for T20Is, will be interesting to see if he gets a place in the squad.

I think i'd change that line up a bit.

Buttler
Salt
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Livingstone
Ali

Beyond Malan I think it depends on the position of the game. You then pick four bowlers out whomever is fit preferably including Surran for his hitting ability then use Stokes, Livingstone and Ali as the fifth bowler.

by James100 Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:30 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
James100 wrote:A full strength top six still looks pretty strong

Buttler
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Livingstone

but three holes to fill for the Pakistan series - I'd expect Salt replacing Buttler at the top, and maybe Brooks and Jacks in for Stokes and Bairstow. Or they go for 7 batters and there's room for Smeed/Cox.

Billings seems to have dropped off the radar for T20Is, will be interesting to see if he gets a place in the squad.

I think i'd change that line up a bit.

Buttler
Salt
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Livingstone
Ali

Beyond Malan I think it depends on the position of the game. You then pick four bowlers out whomever is fit preferably including Surran for his hitting ability then use Stokes, Livingstone and Ali as the fifth bowler.

Seems England have gone a third way, Key's said Buttler and Bairstow will open at the W/C.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:44 am

Everything's a bit of a mess. Here's the squad for the Pakistan tour, featuring many who won't be at the World Cup. Nice to see Olly Stone, as well as Wood and Woakes, making a recovery. No sign of Jofra though.

England T20I squad to tour Pakistan: Jos Buttler (capt), Moeen Ali (vice-capt), Harry Brook, Jordan Cox, Sam Curran, Ben Duckett, Liam Dawson, Richard Gleeson, Tom Helm, Will Jacks, Dawid Malan, Adil Rashid, Phil Salt, Olly Stone, Reece Topley, David Willey, Chris Woakes, Luke Wood, Mark Wood.

And the actual World Cup:

England T20 World Cup squad Jos Buttler (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Harry Brook, Sam Curran, Chris Jordan, Liam Livingstone, Dawid Malan, Adil Rashid, Phil Salt, Ben Stokes, Reece Topley, David Willey, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood

Travelling Reserves Liam Dawson, Richard Gleeson, Tymal Mills.

Topley over Mills may be a surprise, may be related to injury. Stokes will be at the World Cup despite it being a while since he played a T20. Faith put in Woakes and Wood. Brook's ahead of Billings.

And of course the headline being no Jason Roy.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:48 am

Is the WC squad set and can't be altered? Because I'd like to see Stone make his way into it, especially if he is going to Pakistan. Mentioned over the summer I think he'd be ideal to open the bowling and be a middle overs wicket taker in Aus.

Surprised Woakes has made it tbh - don't fancy him in Aus in T20s.

Bairstow confirmed opening...probably looking at this top 6 then?

Buttler
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Livingstone
Ali

?

by JDizzle Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:51 am

I was a big fan of Mills, but he’s never really done it at International level and has spent this year injured/out of form. Topley deservedly in above him.

I worry about Woakes and all his injuries… I have visions of late career Tim Bresnan where the nip had totally gone and he was just canon fodder.

I don’t think Stokes is an elite T20 player at the best of times, but when did he last play one? Going to be interesting to see if he can just jump straight back into form.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:57 am

The deadline for the squads is apparently the 15th September, so before any of the T20s in Pakistan are played. Could make it a bit awkward if, say, a bowler gets smashed around in Pakistan and is completely out of form by the time they get to Australia.

Stokes has only played 12 T20s for England in the last four and a bit years, last one being in March 2021. Actually weird looking at his career stats, he's only played 34 T20s for England!

by alfie Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:18 pm

James100 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
James100 wrote:A full strength top six still looks pretty strong

Buttler
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Livingstone

but three holes to fill for the Pakistan series - I'd expect Salt replacing Buttler at the top, and maybe Brooks and Jacks in for Stokes and Bairstow. Or they go for 7 batters and there's room for Smeed/Cox.

Billings seems to have dropped off the radar for T20Is, will be interesting to see if he gets a place in the squad.

I think i'd change that line up a bit.

Buttler
Salt
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Livingstone
Ali

Beyond Malan I think it depends on the position of the game. You then pick four bowlers out whomever is fit preferably including Surran for his hitting ability then use Stokes, Livingstone and Ali as the fifth bowler.

Seems England have gone a third way, Key's said Buttler and Bairstow will open at the W/C.

Ha ! He heard me Smile

by alfie Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:The deadline for the squads is apparently the 15th September, so before any of the T20s in Pakistan are played. Could make it a bit awkward if, say, a bowler gets smashed around in Pakistan and is completely out of form by the time they get to Australia.

Stokes has only played 12 T20s for England in the last four and a bit years, last one being in March 2021. Actually weird looking at his career stats, he's only played 34 T20s for England!

Seems odd to insist squads be finalised so early ? Is there not provision for injury replacement ? Because I'd be less than surprised if one or other of the pace men broke down in Pakistan.

WC squad seems basically OK , given availability ; though I'd have had Gleeson in rather than just a reserve.

by alfie Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:29 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Is the WC squad set and can't be altered? Because I'd like to see Stone make his way into it, especially if he is going to Pakistan. Mentioned over the summer I think he'd be ideal to open the bowling and be a middle overs wicket taker in Aus.

Surprised Woakes has made it tbh - don't fancy him in Aus in T20s.

Bairstow confirmed opening...probably looking at this top 6 then?

Buttler
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Livingstone
Ali

?

But do they really need 8 bowlers ? Think they can fit another batsman into that top six...

by king_carlos Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:Stokes has only played 12 T20s for England in the last four and a bit years, last one being in March 2021. Actually weird looking at his career stats, he's only played 34 T20s for England!

I read somewhere a wee bit back that analysts for the top franchise tournaments will often exclude T20i stats from a players overall record when analysing potential signings. Reason being that most T20is outside of the world cups are played with such weak, depleted teams that they are often well below the standard of a lot of franchise cricket. Bilateral T20is are largely rubbish basically.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:29 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:The deadline for the squads is apparently the 15th September, so before any of the T20s in Pakistan are played. Could make it a bit awkward if, say, a bowler gets smashed around in Pakistan and is completely out of form by the time they get to Australia.

Stokes has only played 12 T20s for England in the last four and a bit years, last one being in March 2021. Actually weird looking at his career stats, he's only played 34 T20s for England!

Seems odd to insist squads be finalised so early ? Is there not provision for injury replacement ? Because I'd be less than surprised if one or other of the pace men broke down in Pakistan.

WC squad seems basically OK , given availability ; though I'd have had Gleeson in rather than just a reserve.

Yeah, I haven't read about the 15th of September deadline on any reputable sites, but it would fit in with Australia and England naming their squads at this stage. Any injury and England will have to use one of the reserves and (I think) call up a new reserve at the same time

I also wouldn't be surprised if someone broke down in Pakistan, a seven game series is just silly season.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:30 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Stokes has only played 12 T20s for England in the last four and a bit years, last one being in March 2021. Actually weird looking at his career stats, he's only played 34 T20s for England!
I read somewhere a wee bit back that analysts for the top franchise tournaments will often exclude T20i stats from a players overall record when analysing potential signings. Reason being that most T20is outside of the world cups are played with such weak, depleted teams that they are often well below the standard of a lot of franchise cricket. Bilateral T20is are largely rubbish basically.

Would agree with that. It's why I would get rid of international T20s as most of the time it's just half-arsed calendar filler.

by JDizzle Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:04 pm

Bairstow ruled out of the 3rd Test and T20 WC due to a ‘freak golf injury’ to the leg. Sounds nasty to rule him out if he only sustained it today. Speedy recovery YJB.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:17 pm

Freak golf accident...what is it with England players? Football injuries, falling over in the changing room and now golf accidents.

Must be serious if he's out for the World Cup as well. England's T20 chances diminishing by the day, they'll need another opener. Duckett is now in the test squad, but I assume it'll be Brook who plays?

Trying to imagine what the accident was. A crash in the golf cart? Smashed himself in the leg? Accepted an offer from the LIV and it all got out of hand?

by JDizzle Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:19 pm

Apparently he slipped walking to a tee box and has fractured his leg. That is ridiculously unlucky. I can see ligaments, but slipping and breaking your leg sounds horrific.

by Duty281 Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:29 pm

Thanks. It's just bizarre.

Crawley slipped on a floor and injured his wrist. Burns injured his ankle playing football (as did Bairstow once upon a time). Foakes fell over in a dressing room and tore his hamstring. Archer needed surgery after cleaning a fish tank. Now Bairstow's slipped over on a golf course and badly injured his leg.

All this in the last few years. It's baffling. England must have a combination of the clumsiest and unluckiest sporting professionals.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:30 pm

JDizzle wrote:Apparently he slipped walking to a tee box and has fractured his leg. That is ridiculously unlucky. I can see ligaments, but slipping and breaking your leg sounds horrific.

That is both incredibly unlucky...and a little pathetic. Freak injury surely better sustained celebrating a hole in one or something eh? Very Happy

Huge blow for both the 3rd test, and the World Cup! Sounds like he will miss the Pakistan test matches too.

Guess Brook comes in for the 3rd test...Salt or Hales for the T20 stuff? Glad to see Duckett is in the test squad - suggests he's close, which I am keen to see

by VTR Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:50 pm

Ridiculous stuff. The batting is looking a lot weaker for a very important Test series decider. Think he's more replaceable in the T20s and England don't really look like contenders anyway

by king_carlos Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:30 am

Huge blow to lose YJB for the Tests and World T20.

I'd guess Bairstow out as well might prompt Malan back to three and another opener with Buttler.

1.Buttler
2.Salt
3.Malan
4.Stokes
5.Livingstone
6.Billings
7.Moeen
8.Woakes/Surran
9.Dilly
10.Wood/Stone
11.Topley

If Wood and/or Stone can get fully firing for some pace it's still the makings of a strong side but nowhere near the power it once had and huge pressure on Buttler with the bat.

If Billings is looking likely to play anyway I wonder if they might get him keeping to take some weight off Buttler's shoulders. Billings is an absolutely terrific outfielder given how quick he is and his very accurate arm but Buttler is pretty darn good in the outfield too.

The immediate question with Bairstow out might be whether or not Roy gets a lifeline? I'd probably go with Salt or Jacks myself.

by alfie Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:31 am

Ouch ! That is a dreadful blow to England on the eve of the deciding Test against SA (even apart from the t20 business) As Duty says , England players seem to specialise in collecting injuries in bizarre fashion.

Could hardly have come at a worse time with the player himself in the form of his life. I do fear it is just one more blow to England's diminishing hopes of making an impact in the t20 WC ; but the problem in the Third Test is more immediate - and have to hope the opportunity afforded now to Harry Brook will see him start in a manner that his advocates have been suggesting is likely - because the batting has been depending quite a lot on YJB contributions in most of the Tests this summer.

Anyway I hope the injury is to the lower end of the scary spectrum being canvassed in the BBC report , as I think he's a player who is going to be needed next year ; and a long period out of action wouldn't be ideal (though a bit of a rest might not do a three-format player too much harm). Crossed fingers...

by alfie Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:37 am

Duty281 wrote:Thanks. It's just bizarre.

Crawley slipped on a floor and injured his wrist. Burns injured his ankle playing football (as did Bairstow once upon a time). Foakes fell over in a dressing room and tore his hamstring. Archer needed surgery after cleaning a fish tank. Now Bairstow's slipped over on a golf course and badly injured his leg.

All this in the last few years. It's baffling. England must have a combination of the clumsiest and unluckiest sporting professionals.

It is weird (The Archer fish tank one being the strangest !) These fellows routinely throw themselves around taking catches on the boundary with the dexterity of Olympic gymnasts , and then cripple themselves undertaking activities carried out every day by people barely fit enough to walk to the shops...

Perhaps some powerful sporting gods have a malicious sense of humour...

by Duty281 Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:30 am

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Thanks. It's just bizarre.

Crawley slipped on a floor and injured his wrist. Burns injured his ankle playing football (as did Bairstow once upon a time). Foakes fell over in a dressing room and tore his hamstring. Archer needed surgery after cleaning a fish tank. Now Bairstow's slipped over on a golf course and badly injured his leg.

All this in the last few years. It's baffling. England must have a combination of the clumsiest and unluckiest sporting professionals.

It is weird (The Archer fish tank one being the strangest !) These fellows routinely throw themselves around taking catches on the boundary with the dexterity of Olympic gymnasts , and then cripple themselves undertaking activities carried out every day by people barely fit enough to walk to the shops...

Perhaps some powerful sporting gods have a malicious sense of humour...

I can't help but think there's something nefarious going on, but I can't think what it would possibly be...unless England are running some sort of underground fight club!

by Duty281 Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://resources.ecb.co.uk/ecb/document/2022/08/25/5ed38d62-72c0-45d3-9514-aa3b310ca067/Men-s-High-Performance-Review-Consultation-Material-FCCs.pdf

ECB high-performance review has just been released. The fact they've released it during a test seems to indicate they want it to pass under the radar. Broadly speaking:

- Too much FC cricket is played. There needs to be less.
- The top division of the County Championship needs to be made smaller in terms of team numbers. Bonus points to incentivise better pitches.
- Spinners need to bowl more overs in red ball.
- Different balls could be used in the red ball competition.
- English players playing FC cricket overseas is a good thing and doesn't currently happen enough. Proposals to remedy this include a 'north v south' red-ball game in the UAE and an 'overseas club programme' for certain players. Like the second idea.
- The Lions need to play more cricket, like India A do, and the focus should be 80-20 in favour of red-ball cricket. Reinstate U17 international cricket.
- They like the Hundred. The T20 Blast should be optimised to maximise attendances.
- The 50-over comp should be played in April and should involve the 'strongest possible' teams. Yes.
- Counties who develop elite players should be compensated accordingly.
- The aim is to make England the world's best men's team in all formats in five years. Haha, these changes will take longer than that to yield results.

Overall, the review just seems to be 'let's copy what other countries and sports are doing', with nothing really innovative about it. Other countries have a smaller domestic FC competition than us? OK, let's make ours smaller. Spinners bowl more overs overseas than our spinners? Right, our spinners should bowl more overs then. The Championship in football promotes 13% of teams, while the second division of county cricket promotes 25%? Well let's make it smaller then. There's also a bizarre comparison to how the gap between Division One and Division Two isn't as big as the gap between the PL and the Championship in football.

Added to this, Key has said some more things:

- The Hundred will continue to be played in August, but Key believes the County Championship can co-exist and also be played in August. Key thinks England would have been better served for this test series if domestic red ball cricket had been played just before (for current England players to get a warm-up) and during (for prospective players to push for selection) the tests.
- This is also based on the data that 2/3rds of England's leading FC players are not in the Hundred and are currently limited to playing in the very limited 50-over comp.
- However the counties are split on this idea and will vote on this, alongside other reforms, on the 20th September. Reforms to the schedule require 66%+ support.
- Key is still adamant England players play too much cricket domestically and have no time to 'practise and prepare'.
- Key is still planning on appointing a national selector, but he said that a while ago, and the longer it goes without one the less likely there will be one.

A bit more information has come out about the proposed changes to the county structure:

- Six team Premier Division with two feeder leagues of six teams each beneath it. The two feeder leagues are at the same level in the structure, so no 'Division Two' and 'Division Three'.
- In the six team Premier Division, a total of ten games are played in the regular season by each team (5 home, 5 away) and the top two at the end of the season contest a play-off final for the title. One team is relegated.
- In the two feeder leagues, a total of ten games are played by each team (5 home, 5 away) and the top two in each league go through to the semi-finals. The top team in League A plays the runners-up in Group B, and the top team in League B plays the runners-up in Group A. The winners go through to the final, the winner of the final gets promoted to the Premier Division.
- The County Championship will be played in June, July and September.
- However, there will also be a month of four-day cricket played outside the County Championship structure, in August, while the Hundred is going on. Up to three four-day games can be played in this strange month. The idea is that this will benefit test players, and prospective test players, who wll get red ball practice while a test series is going on, and means that those without Hundred contracts aren't doing nothing. The games in question are envisaged to be as dull as friendlies between respective counties - e.g. Somerset playing Northants in a game of no relevance or meaning - or a more interesting type of friendly game where the counties perhaps get to play a touring nation such as Scotland, Ireland, Zimbabwe or Afghanistan, if they are amenable to the idea.

Overall: 50 over tournament in April. More KO games to get it done quicker. T20 Blast in May/June/July. County Championship in June/July/September. Hundred in August. Four day friendlies in August.

This all sounds like convoluted nonsense to me. I'm on board with a six-team Premier Division, but not agreeable to the two feeder leagues below it. I think it should be a straight three-division structure. I disagree with play-off finals and semi-finals in a league format, though it may help the experience of younger players with regards to pressure moments and big games. I dislike the County Championship being played in September. I think the idea of playing four-day friendlies in August is a nonsense and undermines the entire talk about how 'reducing FC games is a good thing'. If up to 15 four-day games can be played through a season, why not make them all relevant to a league format? The 50-over tournament may get more prominence and not be a second-team sideshow, but it's still at the fringes of the calendar and there will be less of it.

Ultimately, the big problem is the Hundred. It is the source of all ills. It is draining the ECB financially and has very little interest and relevance, but they are determined to build the calendar around it and that means 50-over cricket and four-day cricket gets squeezed to the margins.

A vote will happen on the 20th of this month. Strauss fighting tooth and nail to get the changes through.

by VTR Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:05 pm

I like the 6 team top division and can see merit in the pressure playoff games would create. The feeder divisions don't seem too bad to me, with 4 of 12 teams making the playoffs, I'd expect few dead matches. There is a danger with having a division 3 it's just a dumping ground for the likes of Leicestershire to languish forever.

Really can't get my head around the non competitive first class games, will any actually even be played? 50 over tournament in April isn't going to be a quality competition, may as well do away with it!

by Duty281 Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:38 pm

VTR wrote:I like the 6 team top division and can see merit in the pressure playoff games would create. The feeder divisions don't seem too bad to me, with 4 of 12 teams making the playoffs, I'd expect few dead matches. There is a danger with having a division 3 it's just a dumping ground for the likes of Leicestershire to languish forever.

Really can't get my head around the non competitive first class games, will any actually even be played? 50 over tournament in April isn't going to be a quality competition, may as well do away with it!

Yeah, that's a fair point about the playoffs and division 3, but I wouldn't mind some counties getting stuck there because it might move them towards semi-professional status. I think one of the problems, as others have said on here, is there are too many counties and the ECB is struggling to prop them all up. No review is daring to touch the question of: are there too many counties?

I don't understand the four-day games in August, either. On the one hand Strauss is saying that he believes, and some players also believe, that too much cricket is played and there isn't enough time for rest and preparation, so the County Championship needs to be slimmed down. On the other hand he's saying 'let's chuck in a few non-competitive games in August, Yorkshire v Zimbabwe, wahey!'

Strauss has added a few more comments this evening in a podcast with the Telegraph:

Spoiler:

by Duty281 Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/06/alex-hales-in-line-for-shock-england-recall-for-t20-world-cup

Oh and brace yourself, everyone, Alex Hales is coming back because of Bairstow's injury. Whatever he did has required consulting with a lot of different players, but it seems that it's all water under the bridge and Hales is to return for the World Cup. Also means no Will Jacks.

by alfie Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:01 am

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/06/alex-hales-in-line-for-shock-england-recall-for-t20-world-cup

Oh and brace yourself, everyone, Alex Hales is coming back because of Bairstow's injury. Whatever he did has required consulting with a lot of different players, but it seems that it's all water under the bridge and Hales is to return for the World Cup. Also means no Will Jacks.

In purely cricketing terms probably reasonable - as long as there is not too much bad blood likely to upset the team harmony in the t20 WC. Presume they have discussed it among the group. The fellow can certainly bat in white ball cricket.

But for the future it seems unfortunate that Will Jacks then won't get his chance at a serious tournament. If he stars in the Pakistan warm up games it will seem even more so : a pity they can't wait until after these matches to finalise the squad.

Will Hales be added to the Pakistan touring team ?

Edit : Yes I see he is now officially added to the Pakistan squad as well as named as the YJB replacement for the WC.

So good luck to him ; hope he justifies his call up. Will be a bit embarrassing if , say , he is out-performed by Jacks in Pakistan Smile

But I guess that is a risk whenever you pick different players for the warm ups and the main squad at the same time...

by JDizzle Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:58 am

Such a bizarre move. I don’t necessarily disagree with Hales being the best option cricketing wise - but for an England batting line up that needs to get younger in all white ball cricket, Jacks made more sense to me.

If Hales was your next man up, why wasn’t he in the Pakistan squad to begin with? If you decided his punishment for the off the field stuff is over, then he should have been in the Pakistan squad. Just smacks of making it up as they go along. Why the need to appoint a selector is essential.

by Soul Requiem Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/sep/06/alex-hales-in-line-for-shock-england-recall-for-t20-world-cup

Oh and brace yourself, everyone, Alex Hales is coming back because of Bairstow's injury. Whatever he did has required consulting with a lot of different players, but it seems that it's all water under the bridge and Hales is to return for the World Cup. Also means no Will Jacks.

Bairstow, Roy and Morgan are all absent for different reasons, that's perhaps a consideration in his recall.

by Duty281 Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:45 pm

JDizzle wrote:Such a bizarre move. I don’t necessarily disagree with Hales being the best option cricketing wise - but for an England batting line up that needs to get younger in all white ball cricket, Jacks made more sense to me.

If Hales was your next man up, why wasn’t he in the Pakistan squad to begin with? If you decided his punishment for the off the field stuff is over, then he should have been in the Pakistan squad. Just smacks of making it up as they go along. Why the need to appoint a selector is essential.

I think part of the reason is that they're favouring Hales as a purely short-term option for the World Cup, based on his experience in Australia in the Big Bash.

by JDizzle Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:47 pm

Stokes was asked his opinion on the Hales recall and his response was ‘we both have the same goal to win World Cups’. Not exactly glowing…

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:59 pm

JDizzle wrote:Stokes was asked his opinion on the Hales recall and his response was ‘we both have the same goal to win World Cups’. Not exactly glowing…

Also in his documentary on Amazon he described Hales as “his friend at that time” - kind of obvious with the Morgan retirement, Roy loss of form, Bairstow injury, now this Hales recall…tumultuous times for the white ball squads. Along also with the bowling injuries, I’m finding it hard to have the same optimism entering this T20 World Cup as I had for UAE last year.

Before we get onto the whole Will Jacks stuff, does this mean Hales comes right into the XI over Salt too?

by Duty281 Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:10 pm

I assume he comes right into the XI. It's a bold selection to just leave him on the bench. Hales' chargesheet:

- No one likes him.
- Left Stokes high and dry during the Bristol incident.
- Has previous for bumping the night away with his best friend Charlie.
- Caused a ruction right before the 2019 World Cup.
- Blackface.
- Kevin the dog.
- Rumoured to have tried it on with a team-mates other half.
- Did I mention no one likes him?

If England's WT20 campaign falls apart and England are out early, all the blame will be thrown at Hales' door. So there's quite a bit of pressure on him. It's funny really, there's a deciding test match starting tomorrow but all the talk is about Hales, the World Cup, Bairstow's injury, and Strauss' reforms!

by JDizzle Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:I assume he comes right into the XI. It's a bold selection to just leave him on the bench. Hales' chargesheet:

- No one likes him.
- Left Stokes high and dry during the Bristol incident.
- Has previous for bumping the night away with his best friend Charlie.
- Caused a ruction right before the 2019 World Cup.
- Blackface.
- Kevin the dog.
- Rumoured to have tried it on with a team-mates other half.
- Did I mention no one likes him?

If England's WT20 campaign falls apart and England are out early, all the blame will be thrown at Hales' door. So there's quite a bit of pressure on him. It's funny really, there's a deciding test match starting tomorrow but all the talk is about Hales, the World Cup, Bairstow's injury, and Strauss' reforms!

And the rest, if you believe some of the rumours about him… He has to play. It’s a totally bonkers decision if you aren’t even going to pick him in the First XI.

I see England confirmed that Brook will make his debut tomorrow. I saw him bat vs (a poor) Kent side earlier in the year, and he looked a million dollars. A class above everyone, including Test batters like Malan and Karunaratne. I am excited to see how he goes.

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