Scotland 6N lookahead

First topic message reminder :

Results in aggregate this year for the national team were:

5 February 2022 - Scotland 20–17 England
12 February 2022 - Wales 20–17 Scotland
26 February 2022 - Scotland 17–36 France
12 March 2022 - Italy 22–33 Scotland
19 March 2022 - Ireland 26–5 Scotland
2 July 2022 - Argentina 26–18 Scotland
9 July 2022 - Argentina 6–29 Scotland
16 July 2022 - Argentina 34–31 Scotland
29 October 2022 - Scotland 15–16 Australia
5 November 2022 - Scotland 28–12 Fiji
13 November 2022 - Scotland 23–31 New Zealand
19 November 2022 - Scotland 52–29 Argentina

P 12 W 5 L 7

RDW wrote:Finally caught up with the Gloucester highlights. Hastings has been on great form this season. Most importantly, he's also kicking like a dream!

Chris Dean was also very good for Edinburgh I thought. Bit unlucky not to get called up but he seems to lack something that the coaches want.

Here’s a reminder that I’ve rebooted the autumn prediction game previously done by sportform. There was only two games last weekend so still time to play catch up 

Wasn't a classic but wasn't a poor match by any means. Scotland allowed Australia too many free outs & then compounded a penalty by giving another one quickly after.

I almost forgot DTH & Darcy were playing, they really struggled to get into the game.

Oakdene wrote:Wasn't a classic but wasn't a poor match by any means. Scotland allowed Australia too many free outs & then compounded a penalty by giving another one quickly after.

I almost forgot DTH & Darcy were playing, they really struggled to get into the game.

They didn’t struggle to get in the game, we didn’t involve them.

I don’t think Denton mk2 passed the ball once!!!

I asked some of my pals who only casually watch rugby who was in our backline. They could all name Duhan because of his one run where he caught a Scotland kick, half managed to name Darcy as he was mentioned in commentary when fielding kicks from Oz but none of them could name Bennett.

Such a waste of a decent backline.

tigertattie wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Wasn't a classic but wasn't a poor match by any means. Scotland allowed Australia too many free outs & then compounded a penalty by giving another one quickly after.

I almost forgot DTH & Darcy were playing, they really struggled to get into the game.

They didn’t struggle to get in the game, we didn’t involve them.

I don’t think Denton mk2 passed the ball once!!!

I asked some of my pals who only casually watch rugby who was in our backline. They could all name Duhan because of his one run where he caught a Scotland kick, half managed to name Darcy as he was mentioned in commentary when fielding kicks from Oz but none of them could name Bennett.

Such a waste of a decent backline.

Agreed but these days wingers have to come in a bit more & offer themselves.

Hopefully the distribution will be a bit better in the coming weeks.

tigertattie wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Wasn't a classic but wasn't a poor match by any means. Scotland allowed Australia too many free outs & then compounded a penalty by giving another one quickly after.

I almost forgot DTH & Darcy were playing, they really struggled to get into the game.

They didn’t struggle to get in the game, we didn’t involve them.

I don’t think Denton mk2 passed the ball once!!! Tom English on the BBC mentioned Shona's soft hands when slipping the deftest of passes to Ollie Smith when he scored.

I asked some of my pals who only casually watch rugby who was in our backline. They could all name Duhan because of his one run where he caught a Scotland kick, half managed to name Darcy as he was mentioned in commentary when fielding kicks from Oz but none of them could name Bennett.

Such a waste of a decent backline.

Two things here.
First, Scotland had a few long periods of multiple phases close to the Ozzie line and came away pointless each time. They reminded me of the Luvvies who are making a habit of this type of thing. Is Blairhorn basically a very good "receive and pass" 10 but rather lacking in guile and creativity? Which means he is easier to defend against on your goal line because he can't kick it over and isn't going to dummy, sidestep or any of that other Phil Bennet malarkey?
Second, I couldn't really see it on the TV but did Oz employ a Sarries out-to-in rush defence, sometimes referred to as an umbrella, which looks to put a lot of jerseys between the 12 and 13, or 13 and wing? If they did and all your 10 is doing is shipping the ball along then the 12 has no real option other than trucking it up. The lack of ball to the outside channels is mostly due to good defence but also, in part, lack of guile from the 10.

A few seasons ago Glasgow had Ulster in the last game of the season; the winner had home advantage over the loser in the play offs. Right at the end with the score very close Glasgow were in Ulster's 22. Dancer took the pass, gave a show and go, then a dummy scissors, then handed off a defender before a sidestep took him over the line. If Blairhorn ever does all of those in a single match for Scotland (never mind in one sequence) I'll buy tigertattie's sweet stouts all evening.

Tiger will be watching all of Kinghorns games like a hawk from this day onwards!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWYkrqnPas&ab_channel=Rugby.com.au

Here's some Fijian action to get the juices flowing for this weekend. Could this be the strongest Fiji side to take on Scotland at Murrayfield?

bsando wrote:

RDW wrote:Finally caught up with the Gloucester highlights. Hastings has been on great form this season. Most importantly, he's also kicking like a dream!

Chris Dean was also very good for Edinburgh I thought. Bit unlucky not to get called up but he seems to lack something that the coaches want.

Dean clearly isn't as good as Stafford McDowall. Obviously.

Obviously the wisest thing you have said on these here boards.

bsando wrote:Tiger will be watching all of Kinghorns games like a hawk from this day onwards!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWYkrqnPas&ab_channel=Rugby.com.au

Here's some Fijian action to get the juices flowing for this weekend. Could this be the strongest Fiji side to take on Scotland at Murrayfield?

I think jimbo is safe. I can’t see Blair ever doing that. He’s just not that kind of player.

tigertattie wrote:

bsando wrote:Tiger will be watching all of Kinghorns games like a hawk from this day onwards!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWYkrqnPas&ab_channel=Rugby.com.au

Here's some Fijian action to get the juices flowing for this weekend. Could this be the strongest Fiji side to take on Scotland at Murrayfield?

I think jimbo is safe. I can’t see Blair ever doing that. He’s just not thatthe kind of player who should be anywhere near the 10 jersey.

Fixed that for you. No charge

Be honest...
Desparate Dan couldn't tackle a fish supper. Couldn't run a bath. I've seen days pass quicker than him. BUT he was a really good 10. He controlled the game. Successfully most of the time.
Ruaridh Jackson had some sublime moments: also some moments that made your toes plough furrows in the concrete through your shoes, BUT he was an out and out 10.
Meatball doesn't have the kicking game of Desperate Dan or the running and passing game of Ruaridh J BUT he is a reliable 10.
Blairhorn is not a 10.
I have argued, ages ago, that Rob Dewey's biggest problem was that up until pro level he was a big fast laddie who ran over people. He never really had to think about Plan B (developing a wide variety of skills) because Plan A always worked. But at the top leveleven the smallest/lightest players can tackle and usually do enough to delay a player until help arrives. Dewey was very good until he reached a level where he wasn't.
Similarly, Blairrhorn at 15; just give him the ball and he'll run in a try. Until he gets to Croke Park and we lose the game because, yes he can break the line and ALMOST get in in the corner but he hasn't the skill set to know when to pass and put his supporting runner in for the try. When that slight shortcoming was revealed the Scotland management decided, "Well he's big and fast make him a winger". Except being a good winger means understanding the intricacies of the position and I don't think Blairhorn ever had to think about such things. When he was young he just ran through teams. So, he isn't a back three player. He's far too tall to play 9. He would never get to use his speed at 12. He would make Hugh Jones look like a defensive master tactician at 13. He must be a 10!!! Or we've just wasted one of the most promising raw talents we've had in years. He must be a 10.

jimbopip wrote:Obviously the wisest thing you have said on these here boards.

Tough competition!

I'll give you more wisdom. Just watching the Prem highlights and Saints vs Bristol. Hutchinson is another player who clearly isn't in the same league as Stafford McDowall.....

Hastings also on song for Glaws. Will be interesting to see if he gets a game over Ross Thompson, whose last decent game for Glasgow was four Home Secretaries ago!!

More wisdom for you Jimbo:

Kinghorn could well make a fist of 10 but for me there are three prerequisites for making that work:

1. More game time. This is his second season as a professional 10 and at 10 experience matters. We know that he's a gifted athlete, very quick (once he hits his stride) and strong, good range of passing and has a massive boot. The raw materials are there. But whilst ROG and Wilkinson had lesser athletic abilities, both were exceptional 10s. It's about knowing what to do, when to do it, and getting those decisions right nearly all of the time. More experience is needed.

2. Goal kicking. Either get good at it, of pick someone elsewhere in the backs (or forwards, I'm not prejudiced!) who is. Kinghorn currently isn't an international kicker, and it's wrong to impose that on him.

3. 12. Give him a 12 who knows how to run a backline. Saints long ago worked out that Biggar is a terrific competitor, and a legend at catching his own up and unders, but his playmaker skills are only a shade beyond Desperate Dan Parks. They fixed that by picking Rory Hutchinson at 12 and having him run things. It works. I wouldnt necessarily use Hutchinson at 12 outside Russell, but with a relative rookie like Kinghorn, it would be perfect (and ideal for Fiji where the game will likely fragment).

Oh well, at least we have Thompson and McDowall holding tackle bags....

funnyExiledScot wrote:More wisdom for you Jimbo:

Kinghorn could well make a fist of 10 but for me there are three prerequisites for making that work:

1. More game time. This is his second season as a professional 10 and at 10 experience matters. We know that he's a gifted athlete, very quick (once he hits his stride) and strong, good range of passing and has a massive boot. The raw materials are there. But whilst ROG and Wilkinson had lesser athletic abilities, both were exceptional 10s. It's about knowing what to do, when to do it, and getting those decisions right nearly all of the time. More experience is needed.

2. Goal kicking. Either get good at it, of pick someone elsewhere in the backs (or forwards, I'm not prejudiced!) who is. Kinghorn currently isn't an international kicker, and it's wrong to impose that on him.

3. 12. Give him a 12 who knows how to run a backline. Saints long ago worked out that Biggar is a terrific competitor, and a legend at catching his own up and unders, but his playmaker skills are only a shade beyond Desperate Dan Parks. They fixed that by picking Rory Hutchinson at 12 and having him run things. It works. I wouldnt necessarily use Hutchinson at 12 outside Russell, but with a relative rookie like Kinghorn, it would be perfect (and ideal for Fiji where the game will likely fragment).

Oh well, at least we have Thompson and McDowall holding tackle bags....

Cometh the hour, cometh the Cam (Redpath)

It's been clear since Stafford was barely off of the teet that he'd be the greatest 12 of all time. They're just saving him for NZ to rip them a new one. All this Kinghorn argument is smoke and mirrors boys, Toonie is a tactical genius and we shouldn't question his logic. Finn even fabricated an argument with Toonie so they could stealth McDowall into the squad.

NeilyBroon wrote:It's been clear since Stafford was barely off of the teet that he'd be the greatest 12 of all time. They're just saving him for NZ to rip them a new one. All this Kinghorn argument is smoke and mirrors boys, Toonie is a tactical genius and we shouldn't question his logic. Finn even fabricated an argument with Toonie so they could stealth McDowall into the squad.

I hear Tim Horan, Janick Jauzion, Frank Bunce, Maa Nonu and Scott Gibbs all have nightmares about their ruined legacy after seeing McDowall play. He isn't so much an inside centre as a rugby phenomenon. He's a brand (and not like Haskell). The next Lions squad only need name one man....

...and yes, RDW, I too would start Redpath at 12 for the remainder of the AIs. The lad can play.

funnyExiledScot wrote:...and yes, RDW, I too would start Redpath at 12 for the remainder of the AIs. The lad can play.

I think even the toonster knows to play cam at 12. The thing is he’ll likely deploy Harris at 13 who is the anti cam sad times

Cam needs a runner off him. Bennett would have been the shout for me, even Denton mk2 as he could punch holes and cam could miss him when needed and ship the ball to one of the Ds. But we’ll get Harris who isn’t the player to go outside cam.

Tell you what. Toonie really does have his back to the wall here.

Hastings. On fire in the prem
Redpath. On fire in the prem
Hutchinson. On fire I the prem. oh wait. He’s not in the squad.

Surely Toonie has to go with Hastings and Redpath though??????

If Toonie picks Hastings and Redpath, as he should from this squad, then I can live with Harris at 13. It has a nice balance to it in my opinion. I'm not Harris' biggest fan, but with the right 10/12, and the obvious choices in the back three, I can see that he could be the right 13.

You know what's gonna happen, we're going to have Kinghorn-Tuipolotu-Harris!

RDW wrote:You know what's gonna happen, we're going to have Kinghorn-Tuipolotu-Harris!

That would be awful!!

Without meaning to have my head shot off, I'd be ok with Harris at 13. The caveat being we need a creative 12 - i.e. Redpath. During our highest highs in recent years he was a pivotal part of the team, and fully deserving of his Lions spot.

A strong running/kicking 10 (either Hastings or Kinghorn), a ball playing 12 (Redpath) and a solid and dependable 13 (Harris) is the makings of a Test match winning midfield. You can also mix it up and have a basher at 12 (Shona/Johnson) as long as you have a creative, dangerous 13 like Bennett (and use him).

A few caveats here:

- I'd prefer Russell at 10 regardless

- Both options above are with the caveat that either midfield works to bring our back 3 into the game. That back 3 could hold its own against anyone in world rugby - we need to use them!

We have one of the best back 3s in the six nations. It's genuinely top quality with all players in form. If we are to see the best of them we need a backline that can get the ball through the hands incredibly quickly as modern defenses focus on shutting down the 13 channel as quick as possible.

If you pick a 13 that cant pass particularly well it can really scupper good ball getting to the back 3. That being said if your 12 or 13 can't pass well the players (not just the 10) should be able to figure out plays that bypass the crap passers. The downside to this is it can be obvious when playing wide is on and the defense can pick out the players the ball is definitely not going to.

In summary, international standard centres in attack should be able to attack the line with pace, run good lines, fix and pass quickly and put others in to space. If either of your centres can't do this they are limited players and should not be playing international rugby.

Kinghorn played 10 at age grade

Unless Hastings has improved his game hugely ( I have not seen him play this year) I rate Kinghorn as a better 10. Hastings dithers when the planned move is not on because the defense has covered it and then gets turned over far too often

But of course the elephant in the room is that Townsend is such a poor coach / man manager that he cannot work with the best player we have had - Russell. Funny that other coaches can get the best out of Russell

Its back to the old issue. We have a small pool of players. A good coach would select the best players and choose a gameplan to suit those player. Townsend has a gameplan ( I assume) and selects to suit that gameplan and if a player will not buy into that game plan then they are out.

To say Russell is out of form is just nonsense and we all know it. He is playing some great stuff for racing.

BTW - I thought we only had 3 AIs hence winning two is par. As we have 4 then the par score is winning 3.

We lost to Aus because the team were not properly mentally prepared - thats Townsends fault

Discussion going on on the England flag about the same (ish) thing. Jones not picking players like Care or Marchant potentially due to personalities. It's the bit us as fans really don't see though. How do we know for certain that a player being there doesn't irk the 2nd/3rd/4th best in the squad so much it brings performance down. Difficult but certainly a valid talking point. Not sure par would be beating Australia though TJ, well I had it down the other way anyway.

I mean, the obvious fact is we lost because the nominated kicker for the match does not kick on a weekly basis. That's the unfortunate truth. The only reason I can see for Kinghorn being asked to kick is so that Toonie doesn't have to rely on picking Bennett at 13 or Horne at 9 in the future.

This tells us a few of things:

Harris is most likely to continue at 13. Toonie wants Blair to not be dependant on others to kick for goal so he can pick Harris. Harris will be getting picked all the way through to the world cup so lets accept that as fact.

If the above is true it's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If Toonie wants the above to be true then he needs Kinghorn replacing Boffelli for kicks at Edinburgh.

This is very problematic for a hole host of reasons and point to Toonie maybe having lost his head in selection. Your 10 defines the ability of your team to play to the game plan and in the correct parts of the pitch. If your 10 is deficient in certain skills then you pick other players to compensate i.e. Bennett. A refusal to do this is insanity. It means, through no fault of Kinghorn btw, that Scotland are going in to a match with one hand tied behind their back - Incredibly bad management from Toonie. Nothing joins up and i'm at a loss as to why he thinks 10 international tests is enough time for Kinghorn to figure out how to kick at goal.

Imagine the morale for the rest of the team when, say, the forwards win a penalty in the opposition half and Kinghorn can't make the kick, no one else on the team kicks at goal, so the kick to the corner, Scotland win the lineout (not a guarantee), the ball goes wide to Harris and... dies. Turnover. Could have been 3 points but the 10 can't kick and neither can anyone else.

Aus 9th in the world, Scotland 6.  previous 3 games we beat Aus.  We were at home.  to be beaten by Aus is a poor result

Having said that I expected Aus to win because of Townsends poor coaching and the missing unavailable players

I have a nasty feeling that we could very well be on here next week weeping and wailing over another loss.

Toonie will start with Blairhorn. He needs more time playing at 10 for Scotland if he's to be in our WC squad. To drop him after that penalty miss would be cruel and possibly very damaging to his psyche. haircut Hastings will probably bench with the "In case of emergency break glass " label on his forehead. I fully expect a queue of Fijian forwards waiting to run at Blairhorn until he gets yellow carded for neck high tackles.

Some players joining the squad will most likely go into the 23 so they don't go straight into the All Blacks game; Hogg, Harris, Gray, Hastings are pretty much definites. Ashman, Bayliss, Redpath and Dempsey could all feature.
Will Toonie rest players who played against Oz and should be starting against the Blackness? Shooey, Ragnar, GG, Mbawza, Matt Fagerson, Hamish and Aldi Price?

1. Bhatti (Sutherland)
2.Turner (Ashman)
3. Nel (Walker)
4. big Ritchie
5. Ickle Jonny (Young)
6. Crosbie (Haining)
8. Dempsey
7. Bayliss
9. Hornito (White)
10. FECC (Hastings)
11.Duhan
12.Redpath
13.Harris
14.ADHD Kid
15. Hogg (Smith)

I don't pay a great deal of attention to rankings, too variable to really tell you whats what. 2 point win last time and then 2 from 2017, teams quite different and you were missing Hogg and Russell, thats primarily why I thought they'd win.

Not sure if anyone has noticed or mentioned this above but Sam Skinner is out injured and Jamie Hodgson is called up.

Correct me if I'm wrong lol but I recall him having a good debut against Tonga and also going well in the summer .

John Barclay losing his excrement somewhat with Toonie on BBC Rugby, which I, for one, really appreciate:

A gangling loosie wrote:Scotland coach Gregor Townsend is under "mounting pressure" after omitting Finn Russell and starting the autumn Test series with defeat by Australia, says former captain John Barclay.

Blair Kinghorn, preferred to Russell at number 10, missed a last-gasp penalty for victory as Scotland lost 16-15.

Townsend cited "form and consistency" for Russell's series squad omission.

"There's a bit of pressure building and the external noise around Finn adds to that," said Barclay.

He told BBC Sport's Rugby Union Weekly podcast: "If that kick goes over, Scotland still haven't played well but the narrative is so different going into this week.

"But because they had a poor summer tour and didn't finish the Six Nations particularly well, there's a sense of pressure mounting.

"I felt that at Murrayfield at the weekend - it wasn't a great quality game but it's the quietest I've heard the stadium."

Scotland host Fiji on Saturday - with Edinburgh lock Jamie Hodgson called into the squad to replace the injured Sam Skinner - and then face New Zealand and Argentina on 13 and 19 November respectively at Murrayfield in the four-match series.

Barclay, who won 76 caps for Scotland between 2007 and 2019, says Kinghorn is being "hung out to dry" by the lack of a back-up kicker in the squad.

"He's just constantly going to be compared to Finn - that's the reality - and it's harsh kind of harsh on him because the 10 doesn't have to be the goal kicker in the team," Barclay said.

"More often than not it is, but we've got to look at his performance as a playmaker and a 10, and then separately as a kicker.

"There will be question marks about his kicking - that's just the nature of the beast - and if you don't come in with a back-up kicker it becomes even more pressurised."

TJ wrote:Kinghorn played 10 at age grade

Fair enough, but to be fair we might expect his game to have improved in the intervening years.

I read that as well. The Toonie pressure points are mounting, that is for sure.

3 wins from 9 tests in 2022 (not horrific but not what this team is capable of)
Finn Russell
Post Italy drinking
Defensive problems (6N)
Line out issues
Kinghorn experiment
Discipline (penalty count very high in 2022)
Blunt attack
Recent criticism from the former Scotland captain and media

In Townsend's defence, he selected a young side to Tour Argentina. He then selected a limited side to play Australia due to being outside the international window. Therefore, we've watched 4/9 tests in 2022 with a somewhat limited squad at times. With Scotland back to full strength for the next three matches we should expect some better performances.

Yet with SA and Ireland to beat to progress to the QF's in the RWC, I thought the Kinghorn experiment was all about getting him up to speed for next year to ensure we have adequate depth. The fact Townsend seriously seems to be considering him as our first choice FH is very bullish. I really can't see him starting the next three tests for Scotland. Hastings has to be starting against NZ. Surely?!

Mark Palmer just tweeted his latest article so can someone post it here as I don't have the subscription anymore?

Clearly a coaches man management issue with Russell.

The exact same coaches man management issue found over the past decade at Glasgow Warriors, Racing Paris, The Barbarians, The British amd Irish Lions, and Scotland under Cotter.

funnyExiledScot wrote:...and yes, RDW, I too would start Redpath at 12 for the remainder of the AIs. The lad can play.

Lots of talk about St Cam of the Red Path - is he fit? is he actually playing well at the moment? I see Hutch in highlight reels a lot, but not Redpath.

Redpath has had a good run of games for Bath this season and has been playing well and looking confident. He's not been helped by playing in a poor team who loses most weeks though.

Bath are probably like Glasgow were prior to their winning seasons. Bit unpolished but getting there slowly. I'd say bayliss and Redpath are amongst their standout players. It helps that Ollie lawrence has signed, him and Redpath work well together. Darcy Rae made an appearance last time I went to the rec and did alright but nothing to write home about. At least he's playing!

Squad announcement Blarehorn out Dancer in.
Whatever next? Toonie oot Truss in?

Is that confirmed or rumour?

Look, Russell is a better 10 than Blair. No doubt. Bit Russell is a bit of a tube.

Personality aside, if Tommie drops Blair for Russell then he’s a muppet. It will destroy Blair as a player and will make folk wonder what the hell Toonie has been doing.

I’m hoping this is a rumour or perhaps Blair is injured???

TJ wrote:Is that confirmed or rumour?

Actually TJ it appeared on the URC group FB page. I haven't seen it anywhere else so I think it's a legpull. However, what I thought was most interesting was my immediate emotional reaction. What was yours?

Bad man management and feeling sorry for Kinghorn

TJ wrote:Bad man management and feeling sorry for Kinghorn

pretty much what I felt...but that came after the initial

This afternoon media shots from the Scotland camp

Hastings
Redpath
Hogg
Sutherland

Just saying!

jimbopip wrote:Squad announcement Blarehorn out Dancer in.
Whatever next? Toonie oot Truss in?

We just need to hear Toonie tell us that he's a fighter and not a quitter....

BigGee wrote:This afternoon media shots from the Scotland camp

Hastings
Redpath
Hogg
Sutherland

Just saying!

I'd be quite happy for all those players to feature prominently!

I'm actually hoping we shake the back row up a little. Playing against Fiji is the prime chance to give one of our more athletic backrows like Dempsey, Bayliss or Christie a start to to see how they do.

We really don't learn much from giving players 15 minutes off the bench.

Fiji is probably our best chance to win an AI. Will Toonie experiment and risk losing?

'A little' being the prime phrase there!

I was actually thinking rest Watson for the ABs - he seems to get pretty banged up in his old age. Put Bayliss or Christie on the flank, but keep the rest of the backrow as is. Give Dempsy a proper run off the bench.